Zerg WvW Build?

So, I've been playing roaming power mesmer (core, chrono, mirage) on WvW primarily, and I wanted to shift to a zerg build. I've tried running power chrono and mirage in one of our zergs, but it sucks.

Any decent zerg builds I can start with?

The only usable zerg build is full minstrels boon support. You just build full minstrel chrono with chaos and inspiration, provide boon support from shatters and SoI, veil as appropriate, and stability with the stab mantra. That's pretty much the only way to play mesmer in zergs. It's a strong support role that has a place in a comped zerg, but it's not exactly a stimulating build to play.

you can go with power mes like you were just be more sneaky on the way you shatter so you can get 5 players instead of just 1 or 2. if you want to be even more daring go condi mirage and watch as everyone kiles them self from attacking its funny as hell.

Condi mirage have nowhere near the punch and backline scare factor as a power mirage (or any power mesmer). Ramp up is too slow and it requires melee range to be effective. Scourges will just send the condi back and nuke at their feet. A power mirage will literally have downed 1 peep (or 2 or 3 if they where stupid enough to stack tight) before the condi build has even begun its assault.

But as above said, minstrel chrono is the go to zerg build. Others do the damage. Power mirage is one of the strongest flankers in WvW (if not the strongest) but it require alot of fancy footwork to be effective even at range in the current scourge heavy climate.

The "problem" is that for 50 peeps there will often only be a couple of mesmers due to their rarity and a flanking power mirage sort of dodges one of its primary class uses - veilbotting. So most commanders will prefer the chrono minstrel tank.

Well, it's also that "flanking" is kinda pointless unless you're a pick squad of ~5 soulbeasts. Soulbeasts can do high burst unblockable damage from 1500 range, so a coordinated gank squad can actually be irritating. Mirage has to get up close and personal to do the damage, so if you're trying to get a pick on an organized 20-man group, you're just going to eat a bunch of pbaoe aids from the scourges for your effort.

@Reven.2489 said:So, I've been playing roaming power mesmer (core, chrono, mirage) on WvW primarily, and I wanted to shift to a zerg build. I've tried running power chrono and mirage in one of our zergs, but it sucks.

Any decent zerg builds I can start with?

I don't really WvW, but I'm with you on this one. Mirage feels awesome for roaming and PvP, but it just seems very ineffective in those big zerg battles.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:Mirage has to get up close and personal to do the damage

Which was exactly the point, a condi mirage have to get up close and personal, a power mirage can still dump a ton of damage at 1200 range. True, not 1500 like a pewpew soulbeast, thats the one major pro they have. But then again the same mirage will kitten them up in melee range too, unlike the meh soulbeast. If you think 5 soulbeasts are irritating, try 5 mirages with infinite horizon and greatswords. The battlefield just became a rave party.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:Mirage has to get up close and personal to do the damage

lol true that - mental image of /dance among the beam spam. xD

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:Mirage has to get up close and personal to do the damage

Meh, split surge does less than impressive damage and is mitigated by blocks/aegis. Rapid fire does almost 3x the damage even before taking damage modifiers into account. While a bunch of mirages can be kinda annoying, they're hardly dangerous like a soulbeast gank squad...and even that is only dangerous if they're backed by a much larger group to coordinate with.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:Mirage has to get up close and personal to do the damage

But but but stealth one shot!!!1

Bit late to the party but just thought I'd drop in with a build also for my future reference, since I've had similar questions as the OP and the forum search didn't find a build to perform acceptably and also be FUN for me (tried boonshare chrono, but the play stile didn't "click" with me).

Build is basically just a backline veil-mirage-power GS: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR8dnELDlphlLDGrBMMjlUDjcAUCCA+JwHYFssCscKAA-j1BEQBMZ/B9oDwAXAAA8AA8n6PYUJYWU+FAAB4m3MAczbezbezbWbezbezbezbezbezSBUlyI-w

Mix of assassin's gear (berserker's is not far behind) and marauders's for a bit more sustain. Tried also a full glass variant and got good results/suitability, but random occurrences can take a good chunk off your HP, lowering your total dps (heh).

Thoughts:

1. Illusions are not gonna get close to enemy zerg for shattering, with them walking on the carpet of doom, so no use wasting traits on them. Get % modifiers for GS skills instead - that's Domination traitline is used.
2. Sword on switch is mostly for map travel, focus also helps there (+pulls for picks)
3. Incoming condis suck, mirage has got us covered there with reduced condi duration and clears.
4. Dodge is love, dodge is life. You want vigor to have a good uptime, along with dodge food (you'll notice when it wears off). Also is part of the reason you mix duel/mirage traitlines.
5. Mobility is life, blink is essential for repositioning from the path of enemy train. Sand through glass is less used, but still nice, can be swapped to portal or others (condi clear mantra is good too). Jaunt is your second blink, as a bonus you also shed conditions when using it.
6. Not that hard to hold onto >90% HP for scholar runes to be fully active. You dodge/escape most stuff, and trait setup has enough sustain for your zerg's support to heal you up.

Play stile:Hang around the zerg, near the frontline to get some tagging action. If enemy zerg is reluctant to engage, then switch to focus and get some pulls.On engage, gtfo from enemy pain path (blink is good), dodge and unload GS into the enemy frontline (GS ambush gets x3 beams, which all 3 can proc the AOE fire sigil). Rinse, repeat, stay alive and get full inventories of loots.

Build basically plays like a hammer backline herald, but with more elusiveness and VEIL! (veil CD? is veil ready? gimme veil on left in 5, any veil on TS ? second veil go!)

just use whatever and throw your GS and staff around. go full power or condi and don't focus on clones/illusions.

i hate running in a zerg on my mesmer actually so don't listen to me.

Play minstrel chrono until you can develop your own builds. Power mesmer is one of the most demanding builds(that acutally are viable/optimal in some cases) you can play in a zerg, that i've come to meet.

No power build suggested here (until now) is any good btw.

I play Main Minstrel Boonshare but sometimes i switch to a Boonshare Build with a little dmg for Fun.http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhEQNAR8en0nBVphFpBGoBEgilhjyMAGlGqOTD1T98CygKA-j1xHQBkT3Q/U+BgHCgDvCAVUJY42fgeq/EAIB4mtZsZ2MwNbz2sNbz2MlpZqMdzsZb2mtZSBk5KN-w

and now let the flame beginn :)

@SloRules.3560 said:Power mesmer is one of the most demanding builds(that acutally are viable/optimal in some cases) you can play in a zerg, that i've come to meet.

I've yet to see a power build for mesmer that has been either viable or optimal in a zerg in the 6 years of this game. There are some that can have niche amounts of success either picking targets or now and then pulling good damage when the stars align, but that's the best you can hope for.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@SloRules.3560 said:Power mesmer is one of the most demanding builds(that acutally are viable/optimal in some cases) you can play in a zerg, that i've come to meet.

I will still disagree with that every time, lol.

If you want a mindless zerg build then no, mesmer is definetly not for the zerg. If you're the type that are just happy with standing still on a commander for 5 minutes while there is a camp nearby that needs capping, ignore an enemy thief that's killing people coming spawn or fails to grasp the concept of looking behind you then yeah, dont bother with it! Pick a zerg class and stick to the commander like glue. Mesmers arent for everyone. That's a fact.

If you want something that can be the hard hitting burster of the focus party however, then the power mesmer is one of the best there is. Maybe even the best. It got the mobility to circle enemy zergs, it got the AoE to punch a hole in the backline and it got the solo fighting capability to deal with loose units (stragglers, other focus parties) without tipping over like an 8 months pregnant glass thief.

But obviously, it requires far more active play than being a drone on the commander with an optimal and viable zerg build.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@"SloRules.3560" said:Power mesmer is one of the most demanding builds(that acutally are viable/optimal in some cases) you can play in a zerg, that i've come to meet.

There is no backline of a WvW group, and there hasn't been at least through most of the HoT meta, unless you're talking about unorganized pug blobs.

The composition of a WvW group is firebrand support, Chrono support, blood magic scourge support. Zerk spellbreaker offensive utility. Zerk scourge dps, zerk revenant dps, potentially zerk weaver dps. However. The key here is that the entire group moves as a single unit, with the exception of the spellbreakers. There is no backline to jump on, there is only a ball of sustain, defense, and support. Everyone in the group has stability, everyone has heals, everyone has additional boon support. It doesn't matter what angle you come from, it looks the same from all sides.

Can you pick off stragglers? Sure, but a soulbeast does that better, and stragglers will be killed during a group engagement anyway.

Can you hit "the camp nearby that needs capping"? Sure, but if you're using that as an example of how a mesmer is a good group WvW dps class, we need to examine some basic assumptions.

Can you "punch a hole in the backline"? No. You can probably bring one person low or down them. However, this won't happen during an actual engage, because the damage pressure will be too high for you to safely approach to mesmer burst range. This means that you're limited to taking down someone during the pirate-ship portion of a group engagement, and the group can just press F to pick that one person back up.

Ultimately, the focus group role doesn't exist anymore. It hasn't existed in a meaningful sense since the beginning of HoT. You're correct that mesmer fit that role extremely well, but when the role no longer exist, the purpose of mesmer in a group no longer exists.

@"Pyroatheist.9031" said:The composition of a WvW group is firebrand support, Chrono support, blood magic scourge support.Are you on US? Because last I checked in the EU blood magic scourge supports are literally as shunned as rangers in zergs. Bring that and you get kicked from the group. If someone downed is teleported that downed is so heavily carpet bombed by the backline that anything nearby dies as well. Also that note about the "pirate-ship portion of group engagement"... pirate shipping barely even exist anymore, most push hard and fast which leaves gaps in the backline.

I've only seen the sustain ball meta you describe used in smaller ~10 man guild groups and they get rolled by zergs and still kited to death by random pugs because its 90% sustain and 10% dps (ie kill the dps and you will - eventually - win). Mostly they just run around stacking on single enemies that cant kite as good as certain classes.

But sure, meta is meta. If people want to play meta, playing meta is easy. I'd rather not get bored to sleep.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Pyroatheist.9031" said:The composition of a WvW group is firebrand support, Chrono support, blood magic scourge support.Are you on US? Because last I checked in the EU blood magic scourge supports are literally as shunned as rangers in zergs. Bring that and you get kicked from the group. If someone downed is teleported that downed is so heavily carpet bombed by the backline that anything nearby dies as well. Also that note about the "pirate-ship portion of group engagement"... pirate shipping barely even exist anymore, most push hard and fast which leaves gaps in the backline.

Yes, I play on NA. BM scourges combined with quick merciful intervention is a staple of play, because it's impossible to counter if you execute it properly. You can't carpet bomb a downed clump if it gets repositioned and instantly aoe ressed.

I have a hard time believing that the EU meta is that shockingly different from NA. Pirate shipping is a natural outcome of how potent ranged pressure and denial is right now. It's not so much a stylistic choice as a tactical necessity, especially if you're fighting outnumbered.

Ultimately, it all just combines to make pick groups entirely useless. If you're executing picks, you're fighting a disorganized group that's already vulnerable. You'd be better off playing something that can perform that same role but without requiring extremely well executed setup, like hammer rev with CoR and phase smash.