Why aren’t soulbeasts wanted in any squad? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why aren’t soulbeasts wanted in any squad?

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  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Brother.1504 said:
    Everyone loves their ranger but there are better options for zerging. Also ranger longbow obstructs a lot. Anet could make soulbeasts more popular for wvw with just fixing obstruction on longbow and perhaps letting flying ranger pets attack targets on top of walls. Would be very useful to have 5 ranger bird pets attacking siege on top and behind gates.

    Interesting idea, maybe they could get birds to hit like Scourge torch 5, hitting people anywhere on the top of the wall and not requiring los for behind gates and walls.

  • Sylosi.6503Sylosi.6503 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2018

    Set up group with 3 more soulbeasts, play glass longbow, take all the unblockable stuff, focus enemy comm, enjoy the tears (especially the hypocritical ones from your blob), also fun when not focusing comm to obliterate scourges (again enjoy those tears).

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    if u are really good, u are losing nothing being outside a squad. the cry to be in a squad is just a desire to be carried with a minimal effort or contribuition.

    "It's a testament to the folly of the humans and their gods. They say Arah was sacred, but all I see is one big dragon nest."(Rytlock Brimstone)

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trajan.4953 said:
    garbage class is garbage.

    Anything less than scourge atm is garbage xD, WvW is just stack aoe and easyer the spam is the better. :D

  • Balthazzarr.1349Balthazzarr.1349 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2018

    Here's a little update for those that really believe that Ranger is useless in a group fight.

    So many people keep saying that Ranger is a ONE target attacker. Do they even look at the LB specializations and skills?

    Every one of my longbow skills hits up to 5 targets, (using Lead The Wind in the Marksmanship specialization). When I fire into a zerg I am hitting 5 people at once, not just one! And frankly all this talk about reflect?? I still don't see any issue with it at all while playing my Soulbeast... Once in a while I'm hitting someone 1v1 and they hit me with reflect which knocks me back for a second and that's it. It's not a killer... just an inconvenience.

    Add: Leader Of the Pack in the Soulbeast specialization and you have a bit of support for team members close to you as well if you're using Stances, which I do.

    As for those guys running away, keep this in mind:
    Long Range Shot (Long bow #1) does more damage the further away the enemy is. With my set up if the enemy is 1000 or more away I hit them for at least 953 damage... that's usually multiplied by my 80-100% crit chance and over 200% crit damage, which is why the further away you get the faster you fall!

    Just another WvW lifer who'll never say die... while dying again and again!

  • Inoki.6048Inoki.6048 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2018

    Rangers are viable. People just haven't thought out of the box on how to make good use of them. The vast majority only focuses on META and classes that dominate and they do dominate for many reasons, but that doesn't change the fact that having a few properly trained and equipped rangers won't be useless. You'd be surprised how painful they can be if used right.

    If you main a ranger and someone neglects you don't worry ;) It's only to their disadvantage. Every class can be viable if geared and traited right. ANet made this possible with some changes.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Balthazzarr.1349 said:
    Here's a little update for those that really believe that Ranger is useless in a group fight.

    So many people keep saying that Ranger is a ONE target attacker. Do they even look at the LB specializations and skills?

    Every one of my longbow skills hits up to 5 targets, (using Lead The Wind in the Marksmanship specialization). When I fire into a zerg I am hitting 5 people at once, not just one! And frankly all this talk about reflect?? I still don't see any issue with it at all while playing my Soulbeast... Once in a while I'm hitting someone 1v1 and they hit me with reflect which knocks me back for a second and that's it. It's not a killer... just an inconvenience.

    Add: Leader Of the Pack in the Soulbeast specialization and you have a bit of support for team members close to you as well if you're using Stances, which I do.

    As for those guys running away, keep this in mind:
    Long Range Shot (Long bow #1) does more damage the further away the enemy is. With my set up if the enemy is 1000 or more away I hit them for at least 953 damage... that's usually multiplied by my 80-100% crit chance and over 200% crit damage, which is why the further away you get the faster you fall!

    There are classes that do everything you posted above much more efficiently, with boonsharing /booncorrupting, CC. As for the dps part, well, eles/scourges dominate ranger in that aspect by a mile,in zergs.

  • Coelho Nat.4697Coelho Nat.4697 Member ✭✭
    edited April 26, 2018

    I run soulbeast from time to time in wvw.
    Sometimes a commander asks if someone could switch the class in cases where there are to many backlines. However, I have also seen commanders asking for ranged support (rangers/herald). A well positionated ranger gets down necros and eles very easily.

  • Rashagar.8349Rashagar.8349 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2018

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Balthazzarr.1349 said:
    Here's a little update for those that really believe that Ranger is useless in a group fight.

    So many people keep saying that Ranger is a ONE target attacker. Do they even look at the LB specializations and skills?

    Every one of my longbow skills hits up to 5 targets, (using Lead The Wind in the Marksmanship specialization). When I fire into a zerg I am hitting 5 people at once, not just one! And frankly all this talk about reflect?? I still don't see any issue with it at all while playing my Soulbeast... Once in a while I'm hitting someone 1v1 and they hit me with reflect which knocks me back for a second and that's it. It's not a killer... just an inconvenience.

    Add: Leader Of the Pack in the Soulbeast specialization and you have a bit of support for team members close to you as well if you're using Stances, which I do.

    As for those guys running away, keep this in mind:
    Long Range Shot (Long bow #1) does more damage the further away the enemy is. With my set up if the enemy is 1000 or more away I hit them for at least 953 damage... that's usually multiplied by my 80-100% crit chance and over 200% crit damage, which is why the further away you get the faster you fall!

    There are classes that do everything you posted above much more efficiently, with boonsharing /booncorrupting, CC. As for the dps part, well, eles/scourges dominate ranger in that aspect by a mile,in zergs.

    Thing is, if the player knows ranger best, then other classes are not necessarily more efficient for them.

    *edit
    Might have gotten confused as to which discussion this was so I apologise if the above is off topic. Can't figure out withiut reading the whole thread again heh.
    Basically what I was getting at is you optimise around your own knowledge/limitations, not around some theoretical "optimal" state.

  • Shadowcat.2680Shadowcat.2680 Member ✭✭✭

    @Emprer.7256 said:
    Soulbeats are pretty self sustainable you can totally function outside of squad without the boons. Some other classes need them more than you do why take it from them. I play soulbeast and it is definitely strong if you build it right and know what you are doing. Just run along the zerg and do your thing. People will notice if you are good.

    This.

    Soulbeast works excellently as something running off to the side of the zerg, focusing high-value targets (staff weavers, scourges, hammer revs) when the zerg pushes.

  • Balthazzarr.1349Balthazzarr.1349 Member ✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Balthazzarr.1349 said:
    Here's a little update for those that really believe that Ranger is useless in a group fight.

    So many people keep saying that Ranger is a ONE target attacker. Do they even look at the LB specializations and skills?

    Every one of my longbow skills hits up to 5 targets, (using Lead The Wind in the Marksmanship specialization). When I fire into a zerg I am hitting 5 people at once, not just one! And frankly all this talk about reflect?? I still don't see any issue with it at all while playing my Soulbeast... Once in a while I'm hitting someone 1v1 and they hit me with reflect which knocks me back for a second and that's it. It's not a killer... just an inconvenience.

    Add: Leader Of the Pack in the Soulbeast specialization and you have a bit of support for team members close to you as well if you're using Stances, which I do.

    As for those guys running away, keep this in mind:
    Long Range Shot (Long bow #1) does more damage the further away the enemy is. With my set up if the enemy is 1000 or more away I hit them for at least 953 damage... that's usually multiplied by my 80-100% crit chance and over 200% crit damage, which is why the further away you get the faster you fall!

    There are classes that do everything you posted above much more efficiently, with boonsharing /booncorrupting, CC. As for the dps part, well, eles/scourges dominate ranger in that aspect by a mile,in zergs.

    Yes, well as true as that may be... and I do play other classes, Firebrand, Spellbreaker, Scourge... but I play Soulbeast the best. I survive better and kill more with soulbeast. So although I might not be supporting the team with heals etc I'm at least taking enemy targets down.. and not just one at a time. Eles and Scourges may or may not dominate as far as dps goes.. but they still die plenty well when I hit them. There's enough other stuff on them already that makes them nice and soft for me. And since I'm range, like I said, I kill a lot of enemy. I have as many bags as you can possibly have and start out a night pretty empty... have to keep them cleaned constantly after running for a bit.

    Over all the other classes are obviously best in a squad.... but if you have me and my Soulbeast in a squad you won't hear complaints from a commander. At least it's been so long since I've been asked to leave any squad that I must be doing something useful.

    Just another WvW lifer who'll never say die... while dying again and again!

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2018

    @Balthazzarr.1349 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Balthazzarr.1349 said:
    Here's a little update for those that really believe that Ranger is useless in a group fight.

    So many people keep saying that Ranger is a ONE target attacker. Do they even look at the LB specializations and skills?

    Every one of my longbow skills hits up to 5 targets, (using Lead The Wind in the Marksmanship specialization). When I fire into a zerg I am hitting 5 people at once, not just one! And frankly all this talk about reflect?? I still don't see any issue with it at all while playing my Soulbeast... Once in a while I'm hitting someone 1v1 and they hit me with reflect which knocks me back for a second and that's it. It's not a killer... just an inconvenience.

    Add: Leader Of the Pack in the Soulbeast specialization and you have a bit of support for team members close to you as well if you're using Stances, which I do.

    As for those guys running away, keep this in mind:
    Long Range Shot (Long bow #1) does more damage the further away the enemy is. With my set up if the enemy is 1000 or more away I hit them for at least 953 damage... that's usually multiplied by my 80-100% crit chance and over 200% crit damage, which is why the further away you get the faster you fall!

    There are classes that do everything you posted above much more efficiently, with boonsharing /booncorrupting, CC. As for the dps part, well, eles/scourges dominate ranger in that aspect by a mile,in zergs.

    Yes, well as true as that may be... and I do play other classes, Firebrand, Spellbreaker, Scourge... but I play Soulbeast the best. I survive better and kill more with soulbeast. So although I might not be supporting the team with heals etc I'm at least taking enemy targets down.. and not just one at a time. Eles and Scourges may or may not dominate as far as dps goes.. but they still die plenty well when I hit them. There's enough other stuff on them already that makes them nice and soft for me. And since I'm range, like I said, I kill a lot of enemy. I have as many bags as you can possibly have and start out a night pretty empty... have to keep them cleaned constantly after running for a bit.

    Over all the other classes are obviously best in a squad.... but if you have me and my Soulbeast in a squad you won't hear complaints from a commander. At least it's been so long since I've been asked to leave any squad that I must be doing something useful.

    Sorry to be blunt, but neither lootbags or the fact that you are ranged count for much. If anything, to actually be useful for the squad as a soulbeast, frontliner, you would have to play stanceshare (which you dont cause you like to camp on longbow-btw, soulbeast can use other weapons as well to be more useful). The only reason to play soulbeast is because a player just loves the ranger class and cant play anything else in a zerg. Sure, you may pick off some Weaver or scourge who stayed behind. Or knockback the enemy comm to be annoying. But thats it. This meta (and all previous metas, hell, soulbeast is not even in non meta) and the current wvw class structure would only accept a soulbeast in a squad if the squad isnt full, or if the squad roflstomps the enemy zerg. Soulbeast just doesnt cut it. A bad/mediocre necro will do probably more of a difference than a good or great soulbeast. But then again, how many mediocre necros are out there and how many great soulbeasts?

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2018

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    soulbeast can use other weapons as well to be more useful).

    They really can't. Most other ranger weapons are mediocre and they're all garbage in the context of frontline wvw.
    What're you going to do? Spam sword auto whilst running through an enemy zerg? Spin your offhand axe and hope to get some retaliation damage?
    Seriously, ranger weapons bring nothing to the frontline. Standing back and trying to harass enemy pick, or straggling necros is the best you can really hope for.

    If you want rangers to stop camping longbow, give them other weapons that actually. don't. suck. (In the context of large scale wvw.)

    Agreed with the rest of your post, though.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger main before it was viable.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • CETheLucid.3964CETheLucid.3964 Member ✭✭✭

    Soulbeast is more of a roamer than a zerg class. But nothing and nobody can stop you from running with a zerg without being in the squad. You can still tag the enemy zerg and if you're good player, you know to keep to your own zerg and kind of hover in and out of the fight.

    Tag for bags with your range AoE, target squishies for immediate downing.

    SB's are opportunists and they excel at killing squishies, Scourges in particular. You can make a difference in the zerg fight without actually being in the squad and when they screw off, you can go back to roaming the lands taking camps and killing strays.

    Alternatively on the lower pop servers, they really can't afford to be picky and you're likely to get into a squad because they need numbers. Shouldn't be selfish all the time if you have a better class to offer the zerg but I understand the desire to play what you want to play from time to time.

    So I wouldn't really worry about it and do what you want to do.

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    @EDDIE WRECKER.1375 said:

    @Dralor.3701 said:
    SB is fine for sniping necros and other squishy targets, just not as aoe centric as some of the other dps.

    Doesnt anyone use marksmanship trait line to hit multiple targets with bow?

    Have you tried using projectiles in zerg fights? The unblockable portion is really the only useful period unless you are hitting the edges of the group.

  • Mokk.2397Mokk.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    Ranger has been my main since day one .Every update I dread expecting some useless update or trait that is made useless.
    Whether its Core , Druid or Soulbeast it's been like this since the beginning.The Druid was suppose to be a solution to the lack of support in a group. But ended up being a fail because the target areas are to small to be of any benefit along with the healing nerf made things worse.The damage is really sad .Even the group damage benefit is a joke .So really the only benefit of Druid is the mobility .Even celestial is weak for a group. Soulbeast was suppose to make Rangers more front line.Why would anyone make a medium armor class a front line?Not to mention being slower than ditch water without wasting a slot with Signet of the Hunt. Traits are spread to thin with redundancies like Stoneform and Clarion Bond when a simple fix to the signets would of been of more benefit .Useless traits like Lingering Magic,Nature's Vengeance.Extra concentration would makes sense if boons were better shared with allies .Spirits need mobility for Nature's Vengeance to be worth while.Specifically in WvW .
    Off hand axe Path of Scars ground targeting is useless ,bring back the original .Whirling Defense needs movement to be viable.Many pets need more speed .To many pets with identical attacks .To few that benefit the group.
    The list goes on and on and gets worse with every expansion.
    ANET needs to stop listening to the haters and start listening to the people that play the class on a regular basis .Many issues can be solved very easy .But as it stands now Ranger is the all around weakest class in the game.This is why long bow is used so much ,It's basically all we have.I don't want to be over powered but a level playing field would be nice after nearly six years being the underdog.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2018

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    soulbeast can use other weapons as well to be more useful).

    They really can't. Most other ranger weapons are mediocre and they're all garbage in the context of frontline wvw.
    What're you going to do? Spam sword auto whilst running through an enemy zerg? Spin your offhand axe and hope to get some retaliation damage?
    Seriously, ranger weapons bring nothing to the frontline. Standing back and trying to harass enemy pick, or straggling necros is the best you can really hope for.

    If you want rangers to stop camping longbow, give them other weapons that actually. don't. suck. (In the context of large scale wvw.)

    Agreed with the rest of your post, though.

    ~ Kovu

    Yeah the problem here is useful for what in comparison to other classes. Everyone bring better melee/short range AoE than the ranger and they are on classes that support zerg. Its a no brainer.

    At least the longbow is unique in its advantages that give it some minor tiny bit purpose in the zerg. I dont particularly like the ranger but I'll still give the longbow that much (still think the mesmer is the better zerg flanker due to mobility and being a major group threat that force the enemy zerg to manouver, not to mention the danger close stomping capability).

    It can reach out to peeps others cant which is good against freecasters and I've even been usefull in taking out arrowcarts where even meteor storm dont reach. The same ranger with melee "because the zerg demands it" would have been useless. Not really sure why that would be wanted for the ranger.

    Sidenote: unlike above though, I think claiming its the "all round weakest class in the game" is ridiculous. It can definetly be strong in the right hands.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Seteruss.4058Seteruss.4058 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sylosi.6503 said:
    Set up group with 3 more soulbeasts, play glass longbow, take all the unblockable stuff, focus enemy comm, enjoy the tears (especially the hypocritical ones from your blob), also fun when not focusing comm to obliterate scourges (again enjoy those tears).

    Doesn't matter.
    I was with my slb the other day back line skirmishing and sniping necros and guardians with unblockable(both trait and signet for the uptime), and full glass. I mean. I was taking half life or occasionally full hp of the enemies without dieing and when commander ask for swap, while I have a scourge, a guard and a rev, full asc meta builds, I said q time is big(25). I stilled get kicked.
    Now probably many will said why I was with my ranger. Well... Is my main, is a sniper, is a stance share build and providing some short of resistance and swiftness with owl plus stability and a little bit of condi cleanse with bear and bear stance.
    Still unwanted. Still don't care.
    But always whiling to swap as long as q time is affordable.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2018

    @Seteruss.4058 said:

    @Sylosi.6503 said:
    Set up group with 3 more soulbeasts, play glass longbow, take all the unblockable stuff, focus enemy comm, enjoy the tears (especially the hypocritical ones from your blob), also fun when not focusing comm to obliterate scourges (again enjoy those tears).

    Doesn't matter.
    I was with my slb the other day back line skirmishing and sniping necros and guardians with unblockable(both trait and signet for the uptime), and full glass. I mean. I was taking half life or occasionally full hp of the enemies without dieing and when commander ask for swap, while I have a scourge, a guard and a rev, full asc meta builds, I said q time is big(25). I stilled get kicked.
    Now probably many will said why I was with my ranger. Well... Is my main, is a sniper, is a stance share build and providing some short of resistance and swiftness with owl plus stability and a little bit of condi cleanse with bear and bear stance.
    Still unwanted. Still don't care.
    But always whiling to swap as long as q time is affordable.

    Well if you are doing "backline skirmishing" you dont need the squad, do you?

    In fact you could probably have tagged up, get 5-10 focus randoms on you and made your main zerg feel big and stronk cause squishing an enemy zerg is twice as easy when its sandwiched.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2018

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    and they are on classes that support zerg.

    To be fair people can build soulbeast to add support (stab, immunity to soft cc, heal, stun break, protection, fury, etc), problem is firebrand powercreeped support so much, that unless something adds something firebrand can't, then it is just subpar to firebrand.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zinkz.7045 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    and they are on classes that support zerg.

    To be fair people can build soulbeast to add support (stab, immunity to soft cc, heal, stun break, protection, fury, etc), problem is firebrand powercreeped support so much, that unless something adds something firebrand can't, then it is just subpar to firebrand.

    Which was the point.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @zinkz.7045 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    and they are on classes that support zerg.

    To be fair people can build soulbeast to add support (stab, immunity to soft cc, heal, stun break, protection, fury, etc), problem is firebrand powercreeped support so much, that unless something adds something firebrand can't, then it is just subpar to firebrand.

    Which was the point.

    Then maybe write the point rather than something that says something different...

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zinkz.7045 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @zinkz.7045 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    and they are on classes that support zerg.

    To be fair people can build soulbeast to add support (stab, immunity to soft cc, heal, stun break, protection, fury, etc), problem is firebrand powercreeped support so much, that unless something adds something firebrand can't, then it is just subpar to firebrand.

    Which was the point.

    Then maybe write the point rather than something that says something different...

    "Yeah the problem here is useful for what in comparison to other classes. Everyone bring better melee/short range AoE than the ranger and they are on classes that support zerg. Its a no brainer." = other classes (such as the obvious guard or necro) are better than ranger for this purpose. Maybe I just wasnt clear enough. Sorry.

    What I continued on was that ranger has a purpose not to build for support because it does have one unique weapon. Thats why it doesnt really matter what you can build anyway. I would argue the exact same thing for the mesmer in an open pug zerg. You can build a minstrel chronotank and support the zerg, but you are better off just bringing another firebrand then and you loose pretty much the only thing that makes the mesmer strong/dangerous in a zerg setting, ranged greatsword bursts.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2018

    Why having soulbeat IF some certain classes stacked reduce the risk of being a low skill player putting group in trouble, and reduces the effort? while u only need to stack and be a good ant on the zerg???

    ./ThinhatfoilON
    Think about it, Anet is enforcing broken aoe gameplay, next aoe classes will be strong than scourge wich will result in more broken passives that wull take probably 1year to years to balance them out or kill the passives to enforce more easy resulting on pk and giving placebos pk to the players.
    ./ThinhatfoilOFF

    Scourge will always be a class to help lamers and bad players playing in zerg, it needs to be broken by default, reason they nerfed it on 1vs1 to have the excuse of being a broken class that is not hard to use 3rd party tools to improve the AOE brokeness.

    EDIT: guys run a group independent from the main zerg, and behind it, with a party of full unblockable soulbeast build, those warrior than bubble banzai it wont last much longer.

  • Balthazzarr.1349Balthazzarr.1349 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2018

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Balthazzarr.1349 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Balthazzarr.1349 said:
    Here's a little update for those that really believe that Ranger is useless in a group fight.

    So many people keep saying that Ranger is a ONE target attacker. Do they even look at the LB specializations and skills?

    Every one of my longbow skills hits up to 5 targets, (using Lead The Wind in the Marksmanship specialization). When I fire into a zerg I am hitting 5 people at once, not just one! And frankly all this talk about reflect?? I still don't see any issue with it at all while playing my Soulbeast... Once in a while I'm hitting someone 1v1 and they hit me with reflect which knocks me back for a second and that's it. It's not a killer... just an inconvenience.

    Add: Leader Of the Pack in the Soulbeast specialization and you have a bit of support for team members close to you as well if you're using Stances, which I do.

    As for those guys running away, keep this in mind:
    Long Range Shot (Long bow #1) does more damage the further away the enemy is. With my set up if the enemy is 1000 or more away I hit them for at least 953 damage... that's usually multiplied by my 80-100% crit chance and over 200% crit damage, which is why the further away you get the faster you fall!

    There are classes that do everything you posted above much more efficiently, with boonsharing /booncorrupting, CC. As for the dps part, well, eles/scourges dominate ranger in that aspect by a mile,in zergs.

    Yes, well as true as that may be... and I do play other classes, Firebrand, Spellbreaker, Scourge... but I play Soulbeast the best. I survive better and kill more with soulbeast. So although I might not be supporting the team with heals etc I'm at least taking enemy targets down.. and not just one at a time. Eles and Scourges may or may not dominate as far as dps goes.. but they still die plenty well when I hit them. There's enough other stuff on them already that makes them nice and soft for me. And since I'm range, like I said, I kill a lot of enemy. I have as many bags as you can possibly have and start out a night pretty empty... have to keep them cleaned constantly after running for a bit.

    Over all the other classes are obviously best in a squad.... but if you have me and my Soulbeast in a squad you won't hear complaints from a commander. At least it's been so long since I've been asked to leave any squad that I must be doing something useful.

    Sorry to be blunt, but neither lootbags or the fact that you are ranged count for much. If anything, to actually be useful for the squad as a soulbeast, frontliner, you would have to play stanceshare (which you dont cause you like to camp on longbow-btw, soulbeast can use other weapons as well to be more useful). The only reason to play soulbeast is because a player just loves the ranger class and cant play anything else in a zerg. Sure, you may pick off some Weaver or scourge who stayed behind. Or knockback the enemy comm to be annoying. But thats it. This meta (and all previous metas, hell, soulbeast is not even in non meta) and the current wvw class structure would only accept a soulbeast in a squad if the squad isnt full, or if the squad roflstomps the enemy zerg. Soulbeast just doesnt cut it. A bad/mediocre necro will do probably more of a difference than a good or great soulbeast. But then again, how many mediocre necros are out there and how many great soulbeasts?

    At the end of my day all the above doesn’t matter. I do what I do and enjoy it. My commander counts on me for targetted enemy he wants powered down and for scouting etc. Not everyone must be a big healer or frontliner. You can try to “slap” me down for my play style but as they say it’s my way of fun in this game.

    Having said all that... I can play my other classes well, I just prefer my Soulbeast.

    Just another WvW lifer who'll never say die... while dying again and again!

  • @Dralor.3701 said:

    @EDDIE WRECKER.1375 said:

    @Dralor.3701 said:
    SB is fine for sniping necros and other squishy targets, just not as aoe centric as some of the other dps.

    Doesnt anyone use marksmanship trait line to hit multiple targets with bow?

    Have you tried using projectiles in zerg fights? The unblockable portion is really the only useful period unless you are hitting the edges of the group.

    Yeah do it all the time, piecing with 2 unblockables does a fair bit of damage. Its a good way to pin snipe when outnumbered.

  • Mogrey.3891Mogrey.3891 Member ✭✭

    no need to say something more than what already been said here. all i have to say is that ranger takes a lot more effort than some other classes. from the moment i brought scourge to wvw i feel like i'm playing a much easier game.

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I tend to just roam on my Soulbeast, but when I decide to join a tag I have noticed I have ranged from being pretty useless to quite effective. I am not able to really test it for a few days, but I have been wondering if an MM/Skirmishing build could be any good to take advantage of higher RF uptime via Quickdraw.

    Healing orbs are a mistake. Please delete them ANet.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    help out your team by running the proper class or builds and join ts coms. from last tier to first, i have not seen a group that does better than the conventional 2 fbs : 3 scourge with herald weaver spell breaker chrono.

    to break the mold is fine. but the battle is between buffs on and sustain vs buffs off and damage (this is the atom of fights)

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    In standoff or pirateship situations they can be the useful but I’d usually rather have a Druid in my group.

  • ZNICK.8537ZNICK.8537 Member ✭✭

    @Dralor.3701 said:
    In standoff or pirateship situations they can be the useful but I’d usually rather have a Druid in my group.

    I've main'd Druid for ages and I feel I'm good at it... but I still have commanders ask me to not play the druid as well. So I switch and am half as effective.

    Z

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZNICK.8537 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    Why take a Soulbeast if you could take :
    1. Scourge
    2. Firebrand
    3. Spellbreaker
    4. Hammer Revenant
    5. Chrono
    6. Weaver
    7. Support Tempest
    8. Support Rev
    9. Reaper
    10. Base Necro
    11. Base Guardian
    12. Dragonhunter
    13. Base Ele
    14. Druide
    15. Base Mesmer
    16. Mirage
    17. Base Warrior

    (Not in any special order)

    Thats it.
    Thats the reason.

    Nobody says Soulbeast is bad , but there are way to many better options.

    I does not matter how many player can be in a squad.
    You want only the best in slot option and if you dont have that , then the next best in slot.

    Why is the ranger kicked from squads when even the thieves are kept (they have their uses because of their speed and stealth).

    From my experience , the chance that a thief does not know what he is doing is rather low.
    But try to find a Ranger Player ( any kind ) that knows what he / she is doing. GOOD LUCK.

    I have seen some amazing thiefs that do a great job , even in zerg fights.
    I cant say the same from Ranger Players.

    You "can't say the same for ranger players" because you won't let them in your group... saying a "firebrand is better than a ranger" only hold truth when both players have the same amount of experience w/the class.

    There are GREAT Druid players who are better than 90% of the firebrands because they know their class. With this nonsense you now have people rolling new classes "for the meta" and SUCKING at them.

    Z

    First of :
    Druide is in the list of usefull Specs.
    And this Topic is about SOULBEAST (!).
    We talk about Pew Pew Ranger here.

    Second:
    Yes a G R E A T Druid.
    But the commander can not know your skill level.
    Thats why we always asume the average skill level.
    And a average Firebrand is better then a average Druide.

    IF the commander knows the Druide and knows he is good , then there is no Problem.

    The "meta" are builds and classes that are the best choice for an average player.

    To excel as a Ranger you need above average skill.
    That why its not meta.

    And one last thing.
    You cant suck at Necro or Firebrand.
    Having such a low skill level , that would be needed to make this possible is , is basicly impossible.

  • Despond.2174Despond.2174 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 3, 2018

    Well the simple and only answer is because there are just far better options to have in your squad. I mean you can take anything, but with any game you're always going to have metas/optimal compositions. SB is fine for smaller engagements and it's very solid in PVE, so not all hope is lost. Rangers have it very good, I guess you can't have it all with every elite spec being desirable.

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    So last day I had to read and listen (in discord) some disheartening comments about why rangers aren’t wanted in any squad..

    • they don’t bring support
    • Druid is worst than firebrand at healing
    • They don’t do damage
    • They are dead weight

    But with the soulbeast the ranger got share stances and with LB + trait we can pierce up to 5 enemies.

    Is it true? Is Souldbeast damage so low? (I don’t use arcdps)
    Aren’t the shared stances useful?
    Why is the ranger kicked from squads when even the thieves are kept (they have their uses because of their speed and stealth).

    archdps is bunch of kitten.
    so your thinking that a class that can dump aoe all over the place is better DD then class that sits on single dmg?

    i mean a thief or ranger can spike down wanted targets like go hunt the backline for scourges its easy for us and we can do it quick if i wack 10 scourges at ones for 1k dmg or i bang down 1 in a 10k+ hit i prefer the last option ill take them down 1 by 1 and let arcdps think all classes are kitten beside AoE classes.

  • Brother.1504Brother.1504 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Rangers are the new op meta for underwater wvw combats.

  • SloRules.3560SloRules.3560 Member ✭✭✭

    @reddie.5861 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    So last day I had to read and listen (in discord) some disheartening comments about why rangers aren’t wanted in any squad..

    • they don’t bring support
    • Druid is worst than firebrand at healing
    • They don’t do damage
    • They are dead weight

    But with the soulbeast the ranger got share stances and with LB + trait we can pierce up to 5 enemies.

    Is it true? Is Souldbeast damage so low? (I don’t use arcdps)
    Aren’t the shared stances useful?
    Why is the ranger kicked from squads when even the thieves are kept (they have their uses because of their speed and stealth).

    archdps is bunch of kitten.
    so your thinking that a class that can dump aoe all over the place is better DD then class that sits on single dmg?

    i mean a thief or ranger can spike down wanted targets like go hunt the backline for scourges its easy for us and we can do it quick if i wack 10 scourges at ones for 1k dmg or i bang down 1 in a 10k+ hit i prefer the last option ill take them down 1 by 1 and let arcdps think all classes are kitten beside AoE classes.

    How about doing 10k dmg to 10 targets?

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    @ZNICK.8537 said:

    @Dralor.3701 said:
    In standoff or pirateship situations they can be the useful but I’d usually rather have a Druid in my group.

    I've main'd Druid for ages and I feel I'm good at it... but I still have commanders ask me to not play the druid as well. So I switch and am half as effective.

    Z

    I’ve never understood the Druid hate, good support and those imobs!

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    Part of the problem with any pvp/WvW environment is just the toxicity in general. People want to point fingers of things don’t go well and certain classes being scapegoats make it easy for them. Sometimes it might be that particular servers culture and other time times it will simply be someone being unreasonable.

    People also don’t know what they want, will hear “switch to more CC” (switches to more CC) “why aren’t you doing enough damage?!” You said switch to CC...

    Personally I don’t think thief is very useful but a decent player on any of the other classes is always nice to have around.

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭

    @SloRules.3560 said:

    @reddie.5861 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    So last day I had to read and listen (in discord) some disheartening comments about why rangers aren’t wanted in any squad..

    • they don’t bring support
    • Druid is worst than firebrand at healing
    • They don’t do damage
    • They are dead weight

    But with the soulbeast the ranger got share stances and with LB + trait we can pierce up to 5 enemies.

    Is it true? Is Souldbeast damage so low? (I don’t use arcdps)
    Aren’t the shared stances useful?
    Why is the ranger kicked from squads when even the thieves are kept (they have their uses because of their speed and stealth).

    archdps is bunch of kitten.
    so your thinking that a class that can dump aoe all over the place is better DD then class that sits on single dmg?

    i mean a thief or ranger can spike down wanted targets like go hunt the backline for scourges its easy for us and we can do it quick if i wack 10 scourges at ones for 1k dmg or i bang down 1 in a 10k+ hit i prefer the last option ill take them down 1 by 1 and let arcdps think all classes are kitten beside AoE classes.

    How about doing 10k dmg to 10 targets?

    comon man, when i roam on my thief/ranger i eat these blob toons like its nothing.
    scourge isnt doing dmg alone nor is effective alone
    firebrand is same kitten u just put preasure on them and once they are done with all their superior healing bullcrap u slap them around like a wet noodle.

    so if scourge according to you is doing 10k dmg to 10 targets it should easily 1 hit everything that is being focused aka the 1v1 u get as roamer..

  • Wildman.9641Wildman.9641 Member ✭✭

    As a very casual WvW player I have tier 3 or 4 in everything and 4100 kills. It is interesting and it feels like I am participating.... until you come to the forums.

  • Garrus.7403Garrus.7403 Member ✭✭✭

    @reddie.5861 said:

    @SloRules.3560 said:

    @reddie.5861 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    So last day I had to read and listen (in discord) some disheartening comments about why rangers aren’t wanted in any squad..

    • they don’t bring support
    • Druid is worst than firebrand at healing
    • They don’t do damage
    • They are dead weight

    But with the soulbeast the ranger got share stances and with LB + trait we can pierce up to 5 enemies.

    Is it true? Is Souldbeast damage so low? (I don’t use arcdps)
    Aren’t the shared stances useful?
    Why is the ranger kicked from squads when even the thieves are kept (they have their uses because of their speed and stealth).

    archdps is bunch of kitten.
    so your thinking that a class that can dump aoe all over the place is better DD then class that sits on single dmg?

    i mean a thief or ranger can spike down wanted targets like go hunt the backline for scourges its easy for us and we can do it quick if i wack 10 scourges at ones for 1k dmg or i bang down 1 in a 10k+ hit i prefer the last option ill take them down 1 by 1 and let arcdps think all classes are kitten beside AoE classes.

    How about doing 10k dmg to 10 targets?

    comon man, when i roam on my thief/ranger i eat these blob toons like its nothing.
    scourge isnt doing dmg alone nor is effective alone
    firebrand is same kitten u just put preasure on them and once they are done with all their superior healing bullcrap u slap them around like a wet noodle.

    so if scourge according to you is doing 10k dmg to 10 targets it should easily 1 hit everything that is being focused aka the 1v1 u get as roamer..

    Sure if you roam with thief and ranger you can kill scourge but if you go for blob fights these classes are useless. You pew pew a scourge a bit they heal they have barrier and dodge back in melee train. You will do no dmg to this scourge anymore. You can oneshot a scourge if they are to far away from the zerg with your thief. But if the scourge is close to the melee and you jump on it with thief you are insta down. Even if the scourge is a bit of tag and in the caster cloud and you jump it with you will likely get casted down by the other scourges and classes. Pew pew ranger and thief is just not viable for blobfights.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Wildman.9641 said:
    As a very casual WvW player I have tier 3 or 4 in everything and 4100 kills. It is interesting and it feels like I am participating.... until you come to the forums.

    4000 kills is nothing since you can get over 500 kills on scourge in only several hours. Up to 1000 on resets.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Spurnshadow.3678Spurnshadow.3678 Member ✭✭✭

    This age old argument.

    It's really simple. It doesn't matter how good you are. If you're playing at range of 1200-1500 to the enemy group, then you have no place in a squad because you're taking up a party slot that could be held by someone that is going to play on or near the tag and contribute boons/cleanses/healing. If you're playing a druid, then odds are you are going to be playing much closer to tag doing heals, etc. When you're that far away, you contribute nothing, therefore, you don't need to be in the squad. Party comp is really important to success in WvW.

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    @Spurnshadow.3678 said:
    This age old argument.

    It's really simple. It doesn't matter how good you are. If you're playing at range of 1200-1500 to the enemy group, then you have no place in a squad because you're taking up a party slot that could be held by someone that is going to play on or near the tag and contribute boons/cleanses/healing. If you're playing a druid, then odds are you are going to be playing much closer to tag doing heals, etc. When you're that far away, you contribute nothing, therefore, you don't need to be in the squad. Party comp is really important to success in WvW.

    There is nothing that says a soulbeast can’t stay on a tag, it isn’t like you need to stand still to fire the bow. Depending on how you spec the GS is also pretty solid damage.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dralor.3701 said:

    @Spurnshadow.3678 said:
    This age old argument.

    It's really simple. It doesn't matter how good you are. If you're playing at range of 1200-1500 to the enemy group, then you have no place in a squad because you're taking up a party slot that could be held by someone that is going to play on or near the tag and contribute boons/cleanses/healing. If you're playing a druid, then odds are you are going to be playing much closer to tag doing heals, etc. When you're that far away, you contribute nothing, therefore, you don't need to be in the squad. Party comp is really important to success in WvW.

    There is nothing that says a soulbeast can’t stay on a tag, it isn’t like you need to stand still to fire the bow. Depending on how you spec the GS is also pretty solid damage.

    Your bow doesnt have as many aoes as scourge/rev/weaver. You burst 1 target, tag people with 5 and do what after that? Support build (if exists) should always be welcome in melee squad, but a pure dps soulbeast with LB only belongs to dedicated ranged squads/focus parties.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭

    @Garrus.7403 said:

    @reddie.5861 said:

    @SloRules.3560 said:

    @reddie.5861 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    So last day I had to read and listen (in discord) some disheartening comments about why rangers aren’t wanted in any squad..

    • they don’t bring support
    • Druid is worst than firebrand at healing
    • They don’t do damage
    • They are dead weight

    But with the soulbeast the ranger got share stances and with LB + trait we can pierce up to 5 enemies.

    Is it true? Is Souldbeast damage so low? (I don’t use arcdps)
    Aren’t the shared stances useful?
    Why is the ranger kicked from squads when even the thieves are kept (they have their uses because of their speed and stealth).

    archdps is bunch of kitten.
    so your thinking that a class that can dump aoe all over the place is better DD then class that sits on single dmg?

    i mean a thief or ranger can spike down wanted targets like go hunt the backline for scourges its easy for us and we can do it quick if i wack 10 scourges at ones for 1k dmg or i bang down 1 in a 10k+ hit i prefer the last option ill take them down 1 by 1 and let arcdps think all classes are kitten beside AoE classes.

    How about doing 10k dmg to 10 targets?

    comon man, when i roam on my thief/ranger i eat these blob toons like its nothing.
    scourge isnt doing dmg alone nor is effective alone
    firebrand is same kitten u just put preasure on them and once they are done with all their superior healing bullcrap u slap them around like a wet noodle.

    so if scourge according to you is doing 10k dmg to 10 targets it should easily 1 hit everything that is being focused aka the 1v1 u get as roamer..

    Sure if you roam with thief and ranger you can kill scourge but if you go for blob fights these classes are useless. You pew pew a scourge a bit they heal they have barrier and dodge back in melee train. You will do no dmg to this scourge anymore. You can oneshot a scourge if they are to far away from the zerg with your thief. But if the scourge is close to the melee and you jump on it with thief you are insta down. Even if the scourge is a bit of tag and in the caster cloud and you jump it with you will likely get casted down by the other scourges and classes. Pew pew ranger and thief is just not viable for blobfights.

    Floating in and not far away from squads or blobs is the best way to get xp, especially since most of your stomps are more likely to have some cover. Mid tiers seemed better at protecting their support but a thief who's built to bounce on instinct can quietly dismantle enough to make people scramble and that's the best time for you and other floaters to pick out a few. The higher tier squads were more chancy but you can usually burn and stomp everything faster since the builds were more explosive and with less squad protection in general, but they have way tighter pulls and rushes that sometimes just aren't worth taking the chance if it's a long way to run.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Dralor.3701 said:

    @Spurnshadow.3678 said:
    This age old argument.

    It's really simple. It doesn't matter how good you are. If you're playing at range of 1200-1500 to the enemy group, then you have no place in a squad because you're taking up a party slot that could be held by someone that is going to play on or near the tag and contribute boons/cleanses/healing. If you're playing a druid, then odds are you are going to be playing much closer to tag doing heals, etc. When you're that far away, you contribute nothing, therefore, you don't need to be in the squad. Party comp is really important to success in WvW.

    There is nothing that says a soulbeast can’t stay on a tag, it isn’t like you need to stand still to fire the bow. Depending on how you spec the GS is also pretty solid damage.

    Your bow doesnt have as many aoes as scourge/rev/weaver. You burst 1 target, tag people with 5 and do what after that? Support build (if exists) should always be welcome in melee squad, but a pure dps soulbeast with LB only belongs to dedicated ranged squads/focus parties.

    This is also going to vary greatly on traits and other choices, saying there is no support from a soulbeast is crazy (obv not fb tier). If you think someone can’t run around with a GS as part of the melee train you probably haven’t fought as/against too many.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Classes that aren't really useful for boonsharing/would "steal" boons from important classes aren't really good to have in a squad. Nothing stops you from joining voice comms and just running with them anyway, just that you're going to do your own thing alongside them.

    Bite me.

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