Gating progression behind tedious mini games

I'm of course speaking of mastery points. They're required to go further and story won't give enough, and achievements are a lifetime dedication I have no time for. Instead, we get tedious smartphone games , but hey, even free smartphone games have more depth and are more engaging. Anet has a game with some awesome combat mechanics and decent movement ones (so moving around and jumping on stuff isn't a chore, which is nice for a mmo), yet for some reason they're deciding to pile new systems out of nowhere and use them to gate progression. And suddenly the idea that anet learnt that you don't try to change audience halfway like with HoT went straight into the toilets. Here's a suggestion: why not having these new systems in a corner where they won't bother anyone and see if players like that to decide if you're going to make more in the future? It's not like most MMOs have given up on minigames because it was an obvious bandaid for a lack of content for a while, so you should know; having them nearly mandatory and very much "in your face" is kind of disgraceful, since, once again, MMOs aren't supposed to be a pile of cheap mobile games.

I'm very much enjoying the new maps and don't think they lack content or replayability at all, but as always with GW2 the devil is in the details, and there are always some very irritating little things mixed with a lot of awesome stuff.

"Tedious"? Those were the best addition to PoF. Finally something worth my time instead of the same old same old "fight, kill, progress".

Tedious?! Really??! The people who do not enjoy this type of stuff are the ones who want to rush everything . I love that getting a mastery point has a meaningful task to it and not only "glide from here to there...there you go...mastery point". I got both Chef and the one you have to remember the order in 2 tries...what's tedious about it ?! It's not like you have to do it more than once... You do not bring a valid point to it and all it seems you do is dislike something and make it like it should be a mainstream dislike...

@Nury.3062 said:Tedious?! Really??! The people who do not enjoy this type of stuff are the ones who want to rush everything . I love that getting a mastery point has a meaningful task to it and not only "glide from here to there...there you go...mastery point". I got both Chef and the one you have to remember the order in 2 tries...what's tedious about it ?! It's not like you have to do it more than once... You do not bring a valid point to it and all it seems you do is dislike something and make it like it should be a mainstream dislike...

No. I don't mind that kind of stuff added to the game, as long as it's not gating progression. Like I said they could have added such an event somewhere in a corner with cool rewards, but blocking story progression behind supbar mobile games is really terrible.

@Nury.3062 said:and the one you have to remember the order in 2 tries...

It's three rounds, and for those who did not play GW1, this is a historic spot with a historic meaning to said puzzle. <3

@Rennie.6750 said:No. I don't mind that kind of stuff added to the game, as long as it's not gating progression.

In case you have not noticed yet, every progress in Guild Wars 2 is gated behind something. You are forced to level Masteries in order to get to places (or progress the story), Spirit Shards required for ascended crafting are gated behind XP, achievements are gated behind repeating stuff several times or spending hours exploring an area to find a collection items, or [...], and so forth and so on.

@Nury.3062 said:Tedious?! Really??! The people who do not enjoy this type of stuff are the ones who want to rush everything . I love that getting a mastery point has a meaningful task to it and not only "glide from here to there...there you go...mastery point". I got both Chef and the one you have to remember the order in 2 tries...what's tedious about it ?! It's not like you have to do it more than once... You do not bring a valid point to it and all it seems you do is dislike something and make it like it should be a mainstream dislike...

I suppose from your point of view everyone who does not like mini games are ones who want to "rush" everything and this is just not true. Some of us have disabilites that makes some mini games nearly impossible to do. I cannot do the chef mini game. It is impossible for me to be able to finish and I tried at least 20 times yesterday and I got close maybe once or twice during that time. I heard other folk in chat just as frustrated as I was. I was able to do the memory one by writing down each sequence so I could remember it enough to complete. Thank goodness that one was only 3 sets. I don't think anyone is asking for easy but the length of the chef one made it impossible for me.

What might be easy for one person may not be for another for a variety of reasons. I just feel they could have done better with the chef one.

Yep, mini games are fine when they are there as a game only, with some loot as reward, play them for fun and loot when the player wants to. Tying them to story progression/ Mastery Points, not good at all.

there are way way more mastery points than actualy needed to complete all tracks so I don't get why u guys whining u don't have to do one minigame, just do the story and mastery insights, though I perceive them to be a lot more tedious. there are also other achievements which u mentioned.I don't think the problem is the minigames though I think u want everything handed with a silver spoon and u complain about the minigames because they are actually an easy way to get those points.

I play Guildwars2 becuase I like RPGs. The minigames have nothing to do with a roleplaying game.

There is no problem having minigames in for those that like that sort of thing, but FORCING those of us that don't like or simply cannot do them is plain wrong.

I am nearly 50 years old and live in a remote loctaion. I have simply not got the physical reactions, or the internet connection to get through the minigames, plus for me, they are not fun anyway. I would much rather earn the points in a meaningfull manner, even by grinding XP for hours than have to do a minigame.

In the Heart of Thorns area, the minigames were even more annoying due to their limited availability. You would have tried one 20 times, and failed, and be just figuring out how it works, then the time of day would change, and the minigame would become unavailable for an hour or whatever, so you be forced to come back later having forgot it all and starting from scratch.

I did all that kind of game back in the 1980s when I was younger and had the reactions. I don't play GW2 to re-live ManicMiner.

I have not managed to get into Path of Fire yet, due to the endless server errors that ArenaNet are probably running around like headless chickens to fix but I seriously hope that they are not Required for story progression. If so it will be the shortest expansion pack I have ever paid £70 for.#

My 0.02

@Thenme.6491 said:there are way way more mastery points than actualy needed to complete all tracks so I don't get why u guys whining u don't have to do one minigame, just do the story and mastery insights, though I perceive them to be a lot more tedious. there are also other achievements which u mentioned.I don't think the problem is the minigames though I think u want everything handed with a silver spoon and u complain about the minigames because they are actually an easy way to get those points.

Nice strawman. FYI i'd rather kill things or do some special missions instead of the silly minigames.

Eh. Different people enjoy different things. ANet has to provide different things to appeal to those different people. That said, I don't think it's a good idea to tie progression to mini games. Progression is for everyone. Mini games aren't.

As to the "rush" accusation... I just don't like mini-games, preferring to play my character's build rather than a one-off set of skills. I have not yet gotten all of the non-adventure MP's in Heart of Maguuma. It's been nearly 2 years. Is that rushing?

As to the "handed-to-you" strawman... this comes up nearly every time someone asks for an alternate means to get something. Alternate means does not mean, "Handed to me," it means, "Another thing to do."

It's early days, but at the moment the wiki shows 52 MP's needed to max Elona Masteries and 15 available. If some kind soul among those claiming there are more than enough points to max without doing the mini-games would be so kind as to update the wiki, that might help those who prefer to avoid mini-games, and would make this a non-issue.

@Rennie.6750 said:

@Thenme.6491 said:there are way way more mastery points than actualy needed to complete all tracks so I don't get why u guys whining u don't have to do one minigame, just do the story and mastery insights, though I perceive them to be a lot more tedious. there are also other achievements which u mentioned.I don't think the problem is the minigames though I think u want everything handed with a silver spoon and u complain about the minigames because they are actually an easy way to get those points.

'Silly Minigame' = 'Special Mission' ; there you go, problem solved, problem evaded.

Story progress isn't gated behind any particular mastery point. For example, we only need Tier 3 Raptor.

Besides that, there are at least 80 mastery points already available, far greater than the 52 to fully max the four masteries.

• There are 38 PoF Mastery Insights, i.e. available directly on the map. (Some easy-to-reach communing, a few like the one to which the OP objects.)
• 30+ from map-specific achieves = 6 from Crystal Oasis, at least 2 from Desert Highlands, 5 from Elon, at least 4 from Desolation, 9 from Vabbi, 4 from Crystal Desert
• 12+ from story journal = 3 from Act 1, at least 5 from Act 2, at least 4 from Act 3

adding: my source was me going to the hero panel and manually counting the available pink starbursts plus checking completed chieves for same; I didn't rely on Dulfy or the Wiki to spell it out for me.

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:Eh. Different people enjoy different things. ANet has to provide different things to appeal to those different people. That said, I don't think it's a good idea to tie progression to mini games. Progression is for everyone. Mini games aren't.

As to the "rush" accusation... I just don't like mini-games, preferring to play my character's build rather than a one-off set of skills. I have not yet gotten all of the non-adventure MP's in Heart of Maguuma. It's been nearly 2 years. Is that rushing?

As to the "handed-to-you" strawman... this comes up nearly every time someone asks for an alternate means to get something. Alternate means does not mean, "Handed to me," it means, "Another thing to do."

It's early days, but at the moment the wiki shows 52 MP's needed to max Elona Masteries and 15 available. If some kind soul among those claiming there are more than enough points to max without doing the mini-games would be so kind as to update the wiki, that might help those who prefer to avoid mini-games, and would make this a non-issue.

The whole argument falls appart because the initial statement isn't true. No, it's not tied to progression. Therefore it should not be made easier to accommodate some people, because it would be negatively impacting others.

The way things are right now, everyone can progress, they can do it through different means, exactly like you said.

Some people aren't good with some minigames, some people aren't good with jumping puzzle or gliding (quite a few in HoT), some don't like brainlessly killing to get the mastery.... And Anet does just that. It does provide different masteries for anyone. Now if you want them ALL? Well yeah, there's a bit of challenge. I'm glad some of them still have a bit of that.This ... is nothing compared to nearly impossible mini games from hot (getting gold in the golden mask for example). When you first start raids, you will likely spend more than 20 tries on some bosses, and this is fine, some people actually enjoy challenge, so this kind of content is here for them too.

As for relying on the wiki/dulfy to get your initial progression into a brand new extension, I would agree that yes, it kinda has to do with wanting everything handed to you.

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:Eh. Different people enjoy different things. ANet has to provide different things to appeal to those different people. That said, I don't think it's a good idea to tie progression to mini games. Progression is for everyone. Mini games aren't.

As to the "rush" accusation... I just don't like mini-games, preferring to play my character's build rather than a one-off set of skills. I have not yet gotten all of the non-adventure MP's in Heart of Maguuma. It's been nearly 2 years. Is that rushing?

As to the "handed-to-you" strawman... this comes up nearly every time someone asks for an alternate means to get something. Alternate means does not mean, "Handed to me," it means, "Another thing to do."

It's early days, but at the moment the wiki shows 52 MP's needed to max Elona Masteries and 15 available. If some kind soul among those claiming there are more than enough points to max without doing the mini-games would be so kind as to update the wiki, that might help those who prefer to avoid mini-games, and would make this a non-issue.

:-1:

I looked at the Wiki to see whether the people who said there are more than enough MP's or those who said there are not enough were correct.

Mastery tracks are horizontal progression. ANet billed them that way when they introduced them in the HoT reveal.

If there are enough MP's for different people to make different choices, no one would be negatively impacted.