Does anyone else Miss how we earned Skills & Traits?

Does anyone else miss how we earned Skill Points and Traits back then?I sure hell do! =(

its kinda the same now but different.

you still spent hero points on skills and traits

@infrequentia.3465 said:its kinda the same now but different.

you still spent hero points on skills and traits

It's not just that, we used to be able to pick and choose what skills we wanted to unlock in the order we wanted.

The system works better now imo

Definitely not, it was a mess and traits used to cost gold.

I miss using skills to unlock them. Typically I'd have them unlocked (on the weapons I wished to use) 4 or 5 levels before I would in the current system (level 8 or 10?). I don't however in any shape or form miss traits being gated behind events, especially events that require failure. I also disliked (iirc) being unable to swap traits in the field. Slot skills aren't much different than now. I liked the old tiered system where you had to acquire a certain number from each tier to unlock the next but I like the current as well.

The NPE was the worst waste of development time in the history of Anet. They added all the locks and time gates and swept up experienced players in it.

@DreamyAbaddon.3265 said:

@infrequentia.3465 said:its kinda the same now but different.

you still spent hero points on skills and traits

It wasn't completely free choice though. They were divided into tiers and you had to unlock 5 in the lower tier to get to the ones above, and 5 of those to get to the top tier ones. There was a bit more flexibility, but you still had to unlock skills you'd probably never use to get to the ones you wanted.

The more I look back at the different iterations of the builds systems, I end up feeling that all had good and bads. Can't really decide which one is "best" or "worst".

All over I find that the current one "works" the best, as a veteran player. (mechanically, not balance)

Balance wise I miss the before summer-2015-pre-HOT-patch, where most classes sort of just worked.

I kind of liked the idea of doing things to unlock traits, but in practical effect it became a bother and an annoyance. This game is just too radically different from GW1 to make that sort of mechanic port straight over.

I'm kinda missing the old trait system, where you could divide the points over all trait lines. But at the same time kinda not. But I loved how that system let you slowly learn through the traits, instead of the current system where you can save up hero points and unlock an entire traitline at level 21. So kinda miss that as you level, you unlock tiers of traits, actually felt like progression (which is now absent in the game past level 30 or so, save for level 45 and 71 when you unlock the last 2 trait lines). And the separation of hero points from trait points, miss that too.

@"joneirikb.7506" said:The more I look back at the different iterations of the builds systems, I end up feeling that all had good and bads. Can't really decide which one is "best" or "worst".

All over I find that the current one "works" the best, as a veteran player. (mechanically, not balance)

Balance wise I miss the before summer-2015-pre-HOT-patch, where most classes sort of just worked.

I kind of liked the idea of doing things to unlock traits, but in practical effect it became a bother and an annoyance. This game is just too radically different from GW1 to make that sort of mechanic port straight over.

I'm kinda missing the old trait system, where you could divide the points over all trait lines. But at the same time kinda not. But I loved how that system let you slowly learn through the traits, instead of the current system where you can save up hero points and unlock an entire traitline at level 21. So kinda miss that as you level, you unlock tiers of traits, actually felt like progression (which is now absent in the game past level 30 or so, save for level 45 and 71 when you unlock the last 2 trait lines). And the separation of hero points from trait points, miss that too.

I think it depends on what the OP means by "old."

Like, old as in release where there weren't even trait tiers, just the slots that had to be unlocked?

Or after they tied traits to tiers?

Or the NPE?

Or pre-6/15?

I still prefer pre-NPE. The NPE was totally unnecessary. All they had to do was make a better "game guide" that explained traits and utils better to make people aware they existed. Unlocks and gating of traits and utils feels awful coming from the mouths of most new people I've tried to introduce to the game. They got bored before they even unlocked their full skill bar.

@DreamyAbaddon.3265 said:

@infrequentia.3465 said:its kinda the same now but different.

you still spent hero points on skills and traits

I mean, you kinda can do the same now. You can at least pick which trait line or skill category to go through. Not as much freedom as you used to have granted.

That said, the only change I would like to see now is add racial skills in a quest like thing, similar to GW1 elite skills. You kill a certain boss, with or without a small story attached to it, and you can unlock the use of a certain racial skill.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@"joneirikb.7506" said:The more I look back at the different iterations of the builds systems, I end up feeling that all had good and bads. Can't really decide which one is "best" or "worst".

All over I find that the current one "works" the best, as a veteran player. (mechanically, not balance)

Balance wise I miss the before summer-2015-pre-HOT-patch, where most classes sort of just worked.

I kind of liked the idea of doing things to unlock traits, but in practical effect it became a bother and an annoyance. This game is just too radically different from GW1 to make that sort of mechanic port straight over.

I'm kinda missing the old trait system, where you could divide the points over all trait lines. But at the same time kinda not. But I loved how that system let you slowly learn through the traits, instead of the current system where you can save up hero points and unlock an entire traitline at level 21. So kinda miss that as you level, you unlock tiers of traits, actually felt like progression (which is now absent in the game past level 30 or so, save for level 45 and 71 when you unlock the last 2 trait lines). And the separation of hero points from trait points, miss that too.

Yeah, sorry, kinda went all over the place in that post.

Basically I like bits and pieces of each one. But all over, I miss the system as it was pre 06-2015, the dreaded hot patch.

While I don't really like the NPE much, I must admit it makes certain classes very easy to level. (Guardian, unlock meditations, save up and unlock entire Valor line, and you're set for the rest of the game, can ignore further hero points until level 45 when you need another trait line)

Can't say i do.

I think the current iteration is the best.

Miss the old weapon skill unlock system. not the trait or skill

I really do not miss having to do puzzles, event chains, bosses that no one does and even dungeons on every character to unlock their traits. Lots of it wasn't even doable solo. Or paying gold every time I want to change traits.

i miss the very first system minus the tier and gold part, i want to choose the skill i need and not be forced to unlock a whole line for just one skill.also, back then we could customize our traits the way we like it, now we can only choose 3 and the rest is left into dust.

the NPE part is the worst, i am playing this game for about 6 years now (beta) so i know exactly how this game works.seriously, the NPE is more a really annoying hold on character progress then anything useful, maybe nice for your very first character but after that it should just unlock everything from the get go just like before the NPE.

The current iteration is my favorite: you can build up categories of skills or traits, in order. There's no gold cost. And you automatically have enough points to max the base specializations when you hit L80.

Every other version we've had to max skills and traits was, to me, worse or far worse. The need to buy tomes put a huge burden on newer players. The "trait hunting" system required every character to revisit identical events (each of which I had already done), so it became increasingly dull — after learning the new specs, I never leveled another character until the system was changed. Previous systems also required new alts to do a fair bit of map completion to finish the leveling process.

Oh gods no. I liked the flexibility of the old trait system, but it was terrible progression and got worse after the NPE revamp.

My casual friend was spending so much gold on single traits he never ever would use. I felt bad for him, as all my characters were grandfathered in with the original class tomes.

Going all the way back to MUDs as a player and a developer, I have no hesitation at all in saying that NPEs invariably make a game worse than it was originally. Anyone remember SWG? WoW, LoTRO, STO, RIFT, SW-TOR, Conan, Secret World, ESO, and too many other games to remember... all worse after their "New Player Experience" than before; largely because the players' experience was radically changed, either through catering to elitists and raiders or the exact opposite, catering to casuals; always intended to bring in more revenue. Can't blame companies for that, but they inevitably also chase away a lot of their original players. The "balance" that existed in the original game is lost... noting that "balance" [meaning a reasonable level of fun for everyone] is always a difficult thing to achieve.Fault the marketers... fault the management team that drives off experienced developers and brings in a new [read "cheaper"] team with a different focus. Inevitably, a lot of players are alienated from a game they might have once loved.

I do miss being able to target specific skills and traits.I don't miss attributes tied to trait lines, the awful NPE trait tasks, or spending gold for respecs.

The current iteration is fine. We just need those options balanced well to make choices compelling and useful.