Epidemic in raids needs to be nerfed — Guild Wars 2 Forums

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Epidemic in raids needs to be nerfed

Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭

I believe epidemic in raids needs to be nerfed. In certain encounters such VG, Sabetha, Desmina, Dhuum CM it just does too much dmg for too low effort. When timed right you can even work around the invulnerability phases of bosses.
I suggest capping the amount of stacks of condis you can transfer. 20 stacks of random condis (in total) instead of 25 stacks of each condition would be appropriate for this skill. That way VG wouldnt loose like 7% of his health bar instantly after being vulnerable again.

First person to reach 35,000 and 36,000 AP.
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Comments

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @derd.6413 said:
    and then epibouncing (something the requires 2 necros with similar builds to coordinate and doesn't work everywhere) has the same damage as 2 good eles. i'll wait for anet to give nero a build that isn't as situational and is viable before they nerf epi into the ground.

    Does not need all that much coordination and easier to achieve than well played weavers.
    Despite that a single utility skin should not amount for such an amount of dmg.

    First person to reach 35,000 and 36,000 AP.
    killproof.me/proof/kEyr

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2018

    @Malediktus.9250 said:
    I believe epidemic in raids needs to be nerfed. In certain encounters such VG, Sabetha, Desmina, Dhuum CM it just does too much dmg for too low effort. When timed right you can even work around the invulnerability phases of bosses.
    I suggest capping the amount of stacks of condis you can transfer. 20 stacks of random condis (in total) instead of 25 stacks of each condition would be appropriate for this skill. That way VG wouldnt loose like 7% of his health bar instantly after being vulnerable again.

    yes totally.. a friend join our group Monday raid.. saying.. lets all roll necro group. he played with a group the day before and dps was insane. i said to him. we are not going to go imba its just stupid. sorry i have to use such word. u see those video WORLD record click on it.. full group of necro.. such a shame to even put such video up and called it world record. .. i prefer the video that says daily kill with normal balance composition. epi. need nerf.

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
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  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2018

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    99% of all raid groups aren't stacking necros at VG, Sabetha and Desmina. For Dhuum CM it's a strategy but it requires more than just mass necros to overcome that fight. I doubt that it has to be nerfed only because it was "meta" when executed properly in the tournament.

    It was already OP before, I was just too lazy to make a topic about it. Until people discussed this very topic on a teamspeak today. And bouncing one skill is not a valid strategy that should be endorsed by Anet, especially if it makes some supposed to be hard counters like 50% easier. I know for sure that stacking necroes in Dhuum CM has been common for quite a while now, it is just that good now and mediocre necroes outpeform good weavers.

    @Conqueror.3682 said:
    So, you dont want necros in raids.

    I have nothing against necroes, but this skill is just absurd when there is anything you can use to bounce it around. Anet can buff other parts of necro dps slightly (should still be overall worse than weaver of course since it is more durable and easier rotations) as long as they nerf this garbage.

    First person to reach 35,000 and 36,000 AP.
    killproof.me/proof/kEyr

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2018

    I would theoretically agree...but i have seen so many people fail the epi bounce that I do believe in practice it is not as low effort as it seems.

    Plus the idea of epi bounce is an interesting unique playstyle. I would not want to see it gone. Itn is definitely too strong but any change should not remove the condi bounce idea and should give necros a generally viable PvE instance build at the same time.

  • Belorn.2659Belorn.2659 Member ✭✭✭

    I did call it now almost a year ago when they nerfed meteor shower than epi would be next. Epidemic is the single highest DPS skill in the game and while it require specific situation to be useful, so did fgs, icebow, tornado and then meteor shower. First it was walls, then it was large hit box, now it is two targets next to each other. In the end there will always be a combination of environment and game skill that has the highest dps.

    Giving scourges more overall dps would not really help the situation. There will always be one class that has best dps on small golem, large golem, moving golem and so on. The more special mechanics anet remove and the more equal the different classes become in dps, the more mono culture the class diversity becomes. If scourge do 95% of a weaver to a small golem and identical cc, then why ever bring scourge? why gjve the group a 5% handicap for no reason? And now you got a nice buff to scourge and yet none will bring scourges.

    Personally I prefer that they made future raid boss mechanics with specific classes in mind. Maybe add a boss mechanic which require the pulsing boons from a rev?

  • sigur.9453sigur.9453 Member ✭✭✭

    @Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:
    As a Necro main, I strangely enough would not care at all to remove Epi completely out of the game! Because I feel this one single skill is the main reason why ANet is holding us back in the PvE endgame for so long now. With that one skill gone, they finally can give the Necro (Reaper and Scourge) the buffs or maybe even overhaul it so severely needs!

    Exactly this, epi is the main (only?) reason that necro will always be behind the other classes (solo), which perfectly makes sense balance-wise.

  • Grogba.6204Grogba.6204 Member ✭✭✭

    Only if they buff Reaper/Scourge accordingly.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    @sigur.9453 said:

    @Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:
    As a Necro main, I strangely enough would not care at all to remove Epi completely out of the game! Because I feel this one single skill is the main reason why ANet is holding us back in the PvE endgame for so long now. With that one skill gone, they finally can give the Necro (Reaper and Scourge) the buffs or maybe even overhaul it so severely needs!

    Exactly this, epi is the main (only?) reason that necro will always be behind the other classes (solo), which perfectly makes sense balance-wise.

    I don't Think So. If they remove/rework epi. Nothing will come fór a change. Everybody was like"necro have 2hp bars he cannot do much dmg"-> scourge Is here And Its funny.

    #FreePosini

  • Raizel.8175Raizel.8175 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    I'd rather have a complete rework of chrono and druid - and that is truly necessary - to bring more variety into raiding than focussing on balance a niche comp/strategy.

    This.

    I want ANet to focus on this first and foremost, because it's atrocious game-design.

  • Conqueror.3682Conqueror.3682 Member ✭✭✭

    @Conqueror.3682 said:
    So, you dont want necros in raids.

    I have nothing against necroes, but this skill is just absurd when there is anything you can use to bounce it around. Anet can buff other parts of necro dps slightly (should still be overall worse than weaver of course since it is more durable and easier rotations) as long as they nerf this garbage.

    Except that anet will not buff dps from necros if they nerf epidemic, this dps increase has been asked for years and expansions and you know that after they nerf epidemic, there will be no compensation for necro dps.

    Fall down seven times, get up eight.

  • Aktium.9506Aktium.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    Remove support chrono first.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2018

    Im all for nerfing epi and epi bouncing ( i dont like to base a class' viability on its ability to cheese content) but there should obv be compensation and buffs to bring reaper and scourge in line.

    Also speaking of cheese nerf ele the dmg is silly. Furthermore bring the other classes more in line with mirage, like guard, rev, sb are all left behind its pretty FeelsBadMan.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Raizel.8175 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    I'd rather have a complete rework of chrono and druid - and that is truly necessary - to bring more variety into raiding than focussing on balance a niche comp/strategy.

    This.

    I want ANet to focus on this first and foremost, because it's atrocious game-design.

    While you are at it rework firebrand as well and maybe most of the healer. they litterally fart boons and make the game faceroll.

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2018

    Reading the comments it seems like people believe epi is the only reason to take a necro because their dps is garbage otherwise. Seems like even more reason to look at this if the class is only used for one skill. One skill that out dps everything else in the game. And no it doesnt take much communication to use it, it is basically a one liner before the raid starts.

    @crepuscular.9047 said:
    think this is the first time i heard someone asking for a nerf to make raid harder, is OP salty because he got replaced by a necro for epidemic?

    No, I never play DPS role in raids (at least I havent in many months since dps is boring to me)

    First person to reach 35,000 and 36,000 AP.
    killproof.me/proof/kEyr

  • Grimjack.8130Grimjack.8130 Member ✭✭
    edited April 18, 2018

    Any one here petitioning for Epidemic to get nerfed send me their logs of their Necros epi bouncing? Apparently its easy, so show me that its as easy as you say it is.
    If you don't have logs of Epi bouncing, why are you wanting it to get nerfed? Its not hindering your raid experience, because you're not running it. People will run it if they enjoy it at the end of the day.

    Look at Snow Crows, they know Scourge is optimal at Vale Guardian, theres no debating that, but they still run Weavers and Holosmiths because they enjoy it more.

    I'm a well known nobody.
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  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2018

    @Grimjack.8130 said:
    Any one here petitioning for Epidemic to get nerfed send me their logs of their Necros epi bouncing? Apparently its easy, so show me that its as easy as you say it is.
    If you don't have logs of Epi bouncing, why are you wanting it to get nerfed? Its not hindering your raid experience, because you're not running it. People will run it if they enjoy it at the end of the day.

    Look at Snow Crows, they know Scourge is optimal at Vale Guardian, theres no debating that, but they still run Weavers and Holosmiths because they enjoy it more.

    Anet has all the data, no need to proof anything to strangers here. I see no reason to share dps logs with strangers either since they contain all the account names of people.
    Since you are apparently from MnF you should know that epidemic is quite an overperforming skill, are you scared your speed clear tactic gets nerfed?

    Personally I think since I do not play any DPS roles in raids I have the most neutral and unbiased perspective humanly possible on this issue.

    First person to reach 35,000 and 36,000 AP.
    killproof.me/proof/kEyr

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2018

    @NikeEU.7690 said:

    @Talindra.4958 said:

    @Malediktus.9250 said:
    I believe epidemic in raids needs to be nerfed. In certain encounters such VG, Sabetha, Desmina, Dhuum CM it just does too much dmg for too low effort. When timed right you can even work around the invulnerability phases of bosses.
    I suggest capping the amount of stacks of condis you can transfer. 20 stacks of random condis (in total) instead of 25 stacks of each condition would be appropriate for this skill. That way VG wouldnt loose like 7% of his health bar instantly after being vulnerable again.

    yes totally.. a friend join our group Monday raid.. saying.. lets all roll necro group. he played with a group the day before and dps was insane. i said to him. we are not going to go imba its just stupid. sorry i have to use such word. u see those video WORLD record click on it.. full group of necro.. such a shame to even put such video up and called it world record. .. i prefer the video that says daily kill with normal balance composition. epi. need nerf.

    Whats embarrassing and shameful is your need to call us out unprovoked. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    Lol I said what I believe. :) And nothing I would be proud of with one press skill
    Also, no name mentioned here. It's generalised.
    When I see a video says world record with full Weaver's .. I go yeh ofc.. move on .. if a video with mix of diff class and prof I'd say that's really cool. Full group of necro and rely heavily on one skill.... 🤔🤔🤔 I'm sure ppl can do better than that

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2018

    https://gw2raidar.com/global_stats/ are also a good place to see how scourge overperforms at bosses where epi bounce is doable

    Example: 100th percentile dmg taken from that page from Soulless Horror:
    Scourge 37076
    Mirage 30310
    Spellbreaker 28222
    Weaver 27964

    So Scourge overperforms by over 7k dps compared to the 2nd best dps on that boss lol and almost 10k more than flawlessly played weavers.

    First person to reach 35,000 and 36,000 AP.
    killproof.me/proof/kEyr

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Henry.5713 said:
    Would like to see a DPS buff of 15-20% and an Epidemic nerf or change. Something to give scourges a place that is more than just situational cheese.

    ^ this +1

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
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  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2018

    @Grimjack.8130 said:

    @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @Grimjack.8130 said:
    Any one here petitioning for Epidemic to get nerfed send me their logs of their Necros epi bouncing? Apparently its easy, so show me that its as easy as you say it is.
    If you don't have logs of Epi bouncing, why are you wanting it to get nerfed? Its not hindering your raid experience, because you're not running it. People will run it if they enjoy it at the end of the day.

    Look at Snow Crows, they know Scourge is optimal at Vale Guardian, theres no debating that, but they still run Weavers and Holosmiths because they enjoy it more.

    Anet has all the data, no need to proof anything to strangers here. I see no reason to share dps logs with strangers either since they contain all the account names of people.
    Since you are apparently from MnF you should know that epidemic is quite an overperforming skill, are you scared your speed clear tactic gets nerfed?

    Personally I think since I do not play any DPS roles in raids I have the most neutral and unbiased perspective humanly possible on this issue.

    Do you use Epidemic in your raids or do you not? If you don't it doesn't affect you in any way, so if you were truly unbiased you wouldn't care.
    There are 4 fights Scourges or Epidemic is used, Vale Guardian, Sabetha, Xera, and Soulless Horror. If you nerf Epidemic, 3 out of those 4 fights, you would run Weavers on, Vale Guardian, Sabetha, and Xera. Right now you could run Weavers on those fights already and get good/the next best results you can. I recognize Dhuum CM is a thing, but most people don't do it weekly, or most likely even more than once.

    The question isn't "Is Epidemic is too strong?", its "Is it unhealthy for the game?" Right now its healthy for the game, otherwise you'd run into Weavers on those 3 fights, and Scourges no where.

    Nah its not healthy for the game if a class overperforms by 7-10k dps on a boss just because of one utility skill.

    First person to reach 35,000 and 36,000 AP.
    killproof.me/proof/kEyr

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2018

    It is not ok .. I don't know why ppl think it's ok. group wise and classes should somehow be balanced to some equal level. Scourge itself is a cool class.. but when epi is used .. ppl maximise group performance not by adding another class but another scrounge if we hv 5 additional slot in party guess what they will be adding? Not fb, dh, war, DD, holo.. That's because of one skill

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
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  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Talindra.4958 said:
    It is not ok .. I don't know why ppl think it's ok. group wise and classes should somehow be balanced to some equal level. Scourge itself is a cool class.. but when epi is used .. ppl maximise group performance not by adding another class but another scrounge if we hv 5 additional slot in party guess what they will be adding to push dps higher? That's because of ONE skill

    In a team environment i see nothing wrong with this. They have to work together to achieve said results, meanwhile a single ele by themselves can benchmark on par with them.

    Begs the question why 1 class is allowed to equal 2.
    But i'm sure someone will point out that ele hits that with chrono/druid/warrior providing buffs. But for the sake of simplifying i removed the common factors.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @Talindra.4958 said:
    It is not ok .. I don't know why ppl think it's ok. group wise and classes should somehow be balanced to some equal level. Scourge itself is a cool class.. but when epi is used .. ppl maximise group performance not by adding another class but another scrounge if we hv 5 additional slot in party guess what they will be adding to push dps higher? That's because of ONE skill

    In a team environment i see nothing wrong with this. They have to work together to achieve said results, meanwhile a single ele by themselves can benchmark on par with them.

    Begs the question why 1 class is allowed to equal 2.
    But i'm sure someone will point out that ele hits that with chrono/druid/warrior providing buffs. But for the sake of simplifying i removed the common factors.

    That is it. Weaver's are self sufficient .. in a group you can take any other profession there's no restriction to hv all Weaver's. It's balance.
    In epi group. You need every dps person to go scourge. THTs not balance disregard how u want to play it. If you don't see what I see .. ah.

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  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭

    I wouldn't be surprised if it gets the signet of inspiration treatment: capped at like 5 stacks for a set duration but will apply those conditions to the target itself so that bouncing is no longer necessary.

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @Talindra.4958 said:
    It is not ok .. I don't know why ppl think it's ok. group wise and classes should somehow be balanced to some equal level. Scourge itself is a cool class.. but when epi is used .. ppl maximise group performance not by adding another class but another scrounge if we hv 5 additional slot in party guess what they will be adding to push dps higher? That's because of ONE skill

    In a team environment i see nothing wrong with this. They have to work together to achieve said results, meanwhile a single ele by themselves can benchmark on par with them.

    Begs the question why 1 class is allowed to equal 2.
    But i'm sure someone will point out that ele hits that with chrono/druid/warrior providing buffs. But for the sake of simplifying i removed the common factors.

    Ehm no. As posted earlier on SH for example epi bounce scourge does almost 10k more dps than weaver (100th percentile data from GW2raidar stats which is based on many thousands of logs). So a flawless playing weaver will get destroyed by even a mediocre scourge epi bouncer

    First person to reach 35,000 and 36,000 AP.
    killproof.me/proof/kEyr

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    99% of all raid groups aren't stacking necros at VG, Sabetha and Desmina. For Dhuum CM it's a strategy but it requires more than just mass necros to overcome that fight. I doubt that it has to be nerfed only because it was "meta" when executed properly in the tournament.

    It was already OP before

    Yeah. So OP almost noone actually does it. I guess majority of raiders just prefer making things harder for themselves for no reason.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    99% of all raid groups aren't stacking necros at VG, Sabetha and Desmina. For Dhuum CM it's a strategy but it requires more than just mass necros to overcome that fight. I doubt that it has to be nerfed only because it was "meta" when executed properly in the tournament.

    It was already OP before

    Yeah. So OP almost noone actually does it. I guess majority of raiders just prefer making things harder for themselves for no reason.

    Just because not many people do it (proof needed) does not mean it should stay as it is. I guess you are just not used to groups where people do relog to optimal classes for each boss. Possibly because weaver/holo/dh is good enough to beat the bosses and people are too lazy (understandable) to equip an additional class for a few bosses where epi bounce is optimal. Either way "hardly anyone does it" is not a compelling reason to not rebalance it.

    First person to reach 35,000 and 36,000 AP.
    killproof.me/proof/kEyr

<13456720
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