Is the tempest useful in big zerg fights in WvW? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Is the tempest useful in big zerg fights in WvW?

Annihilator.2617Annihilator.2617 Member ✭✭
edited April 19, 2018 in WvW

How good is the Tempest in big zerg fights in WvW?

Comments

  • MadBomber.3719MadBomber.3719 Member ✭✭✭

    it's viable for support but firebrand has pretty much replaced it in that role

  • @MadBomber.3719 said:
    it's viable for support but firebrand has pretty much replaced it in that role

    Which is better, to have Firebrand x2 or Firebrand x1 and Tempest x1 in the group? Does the Tempest provide the group with something unique?

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Tempest has insane burst heal with their Water Staff 3, paired with a Firebrand that increases received healing on targets this is extremely potent.

    Tempest has the unique aspect of aura sharing, which can heal and be very useful too in terms of utility/defense. It also has a lot of condition removal and generally it's also easier to play imo + it's ranged while Firebrand only really does something in a smaller area around or in front.

    Bite me.

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    In big zerg fights, Tempest can be somewhat useful but it is not the optimal choice nowadays. In the past eles were used for opening cc's like Static fields, water fields and heals, and damage through Meteor Shower. Over time, Ele's power was outdone by other classes and combined with nerfs to staff, made it difficult for Eles to remain a viable backline damage dealer.

    With Tempest you have access to more skills and traits that allow you to bring support and heals to a party through auras. It can be very strong in small groups to provide consistent healing, and is less clunky then a firebrand that has to rely on tomes. In zerg fights, Minstrel Firebrands are more useful for support because they can provide group stability, strong healing, and boon output.

    With Weaver, you have a higher damage potential than tempest but lose out on some defensive abilities. The problem with Ele is that you are stuck with one weapon set, so no swap. And you have the lowest base hp and armor in the game so to do any meaningful damage you need to go glassy. Positioning is everything when playing a glass Ele. Most of the Weavers I have seen are bad and die quickly, this is mostly due to being unfamiliar with the spec. I used to play a full glass cannon Ele in the past, and it takes practice to master. Weaver can be a bit more clunky because of trying to remember all the attunement combinations.

    Personally I still like Tempest.

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  • Strages.2950Strages.2950 Member ✭✭✭

    Full support (minstrel) Tempest is incredibly powerful as a burst healer. My roaming group still runs one since we're all sick of guardians.

  • MadBomber.3719MadBomber.3719 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2018

    @Annihilator.2617 said:

    @MadBomber.3719 said:
    it's viable for support but firebrand has pretty much replaced it in that role

    Which is better, to have Firebrand x2 or Firebrand x1 and Tempest x1 in the group? Does the Tempest provide the group with something unique?

    really depends on your group comp/ playstyle but you really dont need tempest. push comp 2 fb, pirate comp 1 fb per party. if you are playing pirate youd rather run weaver for the ranged pressure, if you are playing push comp you want the extra fb for stab. fb may not have the burst heal tempest does but basically serves the same purpose and gives stab

    you can def run tempest, but fb more optimal imo

  • @MadBomber.3719 said:
    you can def run tempest, but fb more optimal imo

    What means "def run"?

  • MadBomber.3719MadBomber.3719 Member ✭✭✭

    @Annihilator.2617 said:

    @MadBomber.3719 said:
    you can def run tempest, but fb more optimal imo

    What means "def run"?

    "definitely run"

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    fb tempest rev scourge scourge could work. =)

    we push one party of 5 to 7. fb fb rev sb tempest/weaver scourge scourge scourge.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As staff you can be usefull in a zerg fight as even if you go all in tankly your never going to have enofe self stab stun brake and clears to deal with every thing being on fire.

    On the point of staff ele use to have a real use in zerg fights as one field would effect many other players but supporting field effect have lost there use over all due to simple skills being many time stronger then any combo field.

    Sadly tempest is a real weak support class its fun but its much weaker then it use to be and simply has not keeped up with real support and realty over all ele is a shell of a class and most of its reason to be is non existing as even the one thing that made ele an ele auras has been nerf to the ground and other auras like light aura has been buff and more of a use then any ele auras and having it on a signify lower cd on already powerful support classes is doom for any uniqueness of the tempest class.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    Is it optimal? Hell no. Is it fun as kitten to shower the walls with flaming rocks and shower your friends with the wetness of healing? You bet it is.

  • Arioch.6507Arioch.6507 Member ✭✭

    Yes you can probably get a spot in a squad w/ a tempest. I'm not sure about the roaming aspect of it, as there are other classes that perform better in that capacity.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It’s replaced by firebrand because it has as much healing and cleansing as both tempest builds with all the crucial boons like stab, aegis and resistance and to some extent blood scourge as blood scourge can move downed bodies and rez them super quick while having zone control and cleanses.

    However a tempest is probably on par with the blood scourge which is to say it’s second only to the firebrand. You can run it, you will be fine mostly but don’t be surprised if you’re asked if you have a firebrand or scourge for large fights. For small scale tempest is still pretty good as you have obsidian flesh and it can give out some pretty incredible sustained healing and very strong auras.

    If someone says support tempest is weak (unilateral as opposed to not as strong in the current meta) then they are talking out of their rear and you should probably ignore everything they say from here on out. Yes it’s not as good as FB and it lacks the unique support of scourge but it is anything but weak.

  • Uthrax.4975Uthrax.4975 Member ✭✭
    edited April 20, 2018

    I have fun with my Tempest Minstrel Auramancer support build; but it has its limits.

    I, of course, can barely kill a fly with direct attacks, but the almost perma-magnetic aura makes it so that I'm really not forced too. Watching ranged blow themselves up in a large zerg is pretty humorous, I wonder if half the time they even knew what hit them. Auras can't be corrupted, they also can't stack so timing is key, and if you spec properly you can apply to 5 others around you. If you're running Dagger/Warhorn you can spam Magnetic Grasp which will combo through fields and apply even more auras which will trigger to 5 others, etc....there's a pretty unique synergy to it imo.

    When I'm not running magnetic aura spam, I'm in heal/cc mode in either water or air; I can put up some pretty decent healing numbers.

    Staff or Dagger/Warhorn works; Staff if you want to stay more at a distance and CC/ heal from afar. Dagger/Warhorn if you want to ride mid-line or front against PUG. Personally I think there are some fun skills with the D/W combo, so I use it a lot; staff can get pretty boring after a while.

    I'm sure someone more experienced than I can elaborate on a valid zerg-fighting Tempest power/condi build. My attempts have ended in frustration compared to options available for other classes.

    So basically, imo, support-ele is your best bet for fighting PUG zergs. However, unless you're in a good guild or super skillful, this build will get you spanked against good guild groups/zerg running the current meta.

    Good luck!

  • Support:
    Firebrand > everything else

    AoE dmg:
    Scourge and Weaver > everything else

    Utility:
    Chrono and Spellbreaker > everything else

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2018

    I tried weaver in wvw today in zerg environment.. I still have soon much to learn. It's really painfully tricky but fun. I like tempest in wvw but they generally ask for Weaver in wvw. When pof in beta I tested Weaver with sword / dagger in wvw it was fun 1v1,2,3 but in pug zerg unfortunately ele melee is suicidal. Idk I need super reflex to play and lots of practice
    Anyone has good tips on playing DPs Weaver in zerg?

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  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Talindra.4958 said:
    I tried weaver in wvw today in zerg environment.. I still have soon much to learn. It's really painfully tricky but fun. I like tempest in wvw but they generally ask for Weaver in wvw. When pof in beta I tested Weaver with sword / dagger in wvw it was fun 1v1,2,3 but in pug zerg unfortunately ele melee is suicidal. Idk I need super reflex to play and lots of practice
    Anyone has good tips on playing DPs Weaver in zerg?

    Staff. Find positioning based on the Zerg. Don't start with zerk gear.

    Try to be in coms. If you ran tempest or base Ele staff, weaver takes some forethought. If you are struggling water and earth can help with healing and CC. Then dabble back into air and fire.

    Gradually, you will find what works. Asking the com how he most would like you to help would be good. Prederably if he has a guildie that is on weaver, that's who to ask.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Mid line auramancer with dagger/scepter is invincible and quite useful

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2018

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Talindra.4958 said:
    I tried weaver in wvw today in zerg environment.. I still have soon much to learn. It's really painfully tricky but fun. I like tempest in wvw but they generally ask for Weaver in wvw. When pof in beta I tested Weaver with sword / dagger in wvw it was fun 1v1,2,3 but in pug zerg unfortunately ele melee is suicidal. Idk I need super reflex to play and lots of practice
    Anyone has good tips on playing DPs Weaver in zerg?

    Staff. Find positioning based on the Zerg. Don't start with zerk gear.

    Try to be in coms. If you ran tempest or base Ele staff, weaver takes some forethought. If you are struggling water and earth can help with healing and CC. Then dabble back into air and fire.

    Gradually, you will find what works. Asking the com how he most would like you to help would be good. Prederably if he has a guildie that is on weaver, that's who to ask.

    when i solo i go mix power toughness heal or vit etc sort of gear to find the balance that suit me.. and i focus on cc ( am still learning as my reflex a little bit slow). but in zerg i go full dps .. i don't die that much but i just need to know when to go in safely to cast and i have to switch to the attunement so i can cast the damage when i have the best buff.. its tricky last night hehe but fun. capturing points are easy i can focus on dps .. but with zerg.. its a bit tricky and need to understand how to work with the commander .. i like to know from good zerk ele, how and what skill you use in utility and what is the tip as zerk weaver.. still a lot for me to learn :) solo it is easy to learn myself but zerg way i think i need to learn to work with the group :P
    eg any special tips on when you need to cast that meteor with element of rage and what do you do when the enemy is pushing too.. dodge side then lava font? switch attunement? we only have two dodges xD
    what is the typical rotation before engage battle and after that you usually do as weaver?

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, EAoA, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Talindra.4958 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Talindra.4958 said:
    I tried weaver in wvw today in zerg environment.. I still have soon much to learn. It's really painfully tricky but fun. I like tempest in wvw but they generally ask for Weaver in wvw. When pof in beta I tested Weaver with sword / dagger in wvw it was fun 1v1,2,3 but in pug zerg unfortunately ele melee is suicidal. Idk I need super reflex to play and lots of practice
    Anyone has good tips on playing DPs Weaver in zerg?

    Staff. Find positioning based on the Zerg. Don't start with zerk gear.

    Try to be in coms. If you ran tempest or base Ele staff, weaver takes some forethought. If you are struggling water and earth can help with healing and CC. Then dabble back into air and fire.

    Gradually, you will find what works. Asking the com how he most would like you to help would be good. Prederably if he has a guildie that is on weaver, that's who to ask.

    when i solo i go mix power toughness heal or vit etc sort of gear to find the balance that suit me.. and i focus on cc ( am still learning as my reflex a little bit slow). but in zerg i go full dps .. i don't die that much but i just need to know when to go in safely to cast and i have to switch to the attunement so i can cast the damage when i have the best buff.. its tricky last night hehe but fun. capturing points are easy i can focus on dps .. but with zerg.. its a bit tricky and need to understand how to work with the commander .. i like to know from good zerk ele, how and what skill you use in utility and what is the tip as zerk weaver.. still a lot for me to learn :) solo it is easy to learn myself but zerg way i think i need to learn to work with the group :P
    eg any special tips on when you need to cast that meteor with element of rage and what do you do when the enemy is pushing too.. dodge side then lava font? switch attunement? we only have two dodges xD
    what is the typical rotation before engage battle and after that you usually do as weaver?

    I will let someone else who runs more zerk as a weaver, but you have fire 4 on staff, twist of fate, I use lightening flash which technically isn't a dodge, but with the others, and the base dodges, you can get through a lot of kitten. That takes up two slots. The third, well, for me it's a damage one, but not sure what would benefit you the most. Mist form is handy as well.

    For the elite? The 'weave self' is kind of gimmicky, but can be a surprise to the enemy. But FGS is always a decent go to for getting out of dodge.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Tiny Doom.4380Tiny Doom.4380 Member ✭✭✭

    I've been playing a Staff Ele in WvW since launch. On two of my accounts I now play that as Tempest. The third doesn't have HoT. I haven't really tried Weaver yet - I specced it up but the learning curve put me off so i went back to Tempest.

    How useful you are in a zerg depends more on what kind of zerg it is, who's commanding it and how you play than what class/build you use, I would say. If you're in a guild squad you're probably going to to get asked (or told) to play something specific and that's unlikely to be Tempest. If you're running with whichever Pugmander is active then in my experience your willingness to pay attention, be where you're meant to be and do what you're asked to do will be far more imprtant than your class or build. Pugmanders soon recognize and remember players who can stay on Tag and not die.

    I agree that the power to kill of the Tempest isn't what it once was and Firebrand has grabbed the limelight for healing but in a Pug zerg, where most probably aren't on TS and those who are aren't listening, your commander is likely to be happy to have heals coming from wherever so long as they land in the right place. Similarly, one of the big complaints is that no-one is killing the downs, which is something a Tempest can readily handle. Plus there's still nothing like a good meteor shower to send defenders scurrying back from the top of a wall or to hit a hard-to-see arrow cart.

    Tempest may not be optimal but its very viable and loads of fun.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 23, 2018

    Tempest is a waste of spec on dps staff build. Overloads are useless outside of npc/choke fights and the only useful trait on it is aoe stunbreak.

    You can swap tempest with water and have much more aoe sustain, but weaver's twist of fate is without doubt the best utility skill that staff ele could get. Not to mention free dmg modifiers that no other spec can replace followed by free 1.5k health and some barrier. Weaver also has the ability to constantly do damage with skills 2+3 while non-weavers have to wait 8 seconds to be able to do something outside of fire.

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  • Adamsdjr.1350Adamsdjr.1350 Member ✭✭
    edited April 23, 2018

    Outclased by Firebrand, but Midline aura support staff tempest is still viable.

  • I wouldn't say Tempests are outclassed by Firebrands, but a mere addition to the fight. The aura's give a unique addition to the fight, and the burst heal allows for a better sustain of incoming damage.
    the FB heal abilities are spread out over longer periods of time, but does give more partywide stab. the mantra's and clenses are in a very small AoE or a cone in front of them, which makes it harder to support party if not all tight on stack.

    backline DPS is for sure Ele's but as mentioned, you need to be glassy in order to do damage, and you have hammer rev's who can basically 1 shot you if you are out of position. Getting used to the weaver attunement swapping is useful and knowing what to do and where to stand will only allow you to survive longer. in a zerg fight frontline tempest or backline weaver bring their own respective additions to the group, and are wanted no matter what :smile:

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