Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Swords shouldn't trigger on keeps unless a siege weapon hits them


Zefrost.3425

Recommended Posts

/thread

Keep lord being under attack should also disable the waypoint. And keep lord being dead should keep it disabled also.

This can only be a good change. As it is, you only promote griefing in WvW by allowing otherwise. As Arenanet doesn't play WvW often enough, they have probably not had to experience the griefing of someone contesting the waypoint on a keep all day. That isn't fun for anyone but the griefer. Little things like this don't help the game mode - there are enough frustrations as it is. And no one enjoys this: "Keep????" "Just someone tagging keep and running by" or "Keep????" then having to spend 5 minutes exploring all of the attack points only to find out no one is there.

This way, an individual player cannot grief and annoy an entire server of players. You wouldn't see any other game allowing this type of behavior when it's so easy to fix. It is not beneficial to the game mode to keep it as is.

Really, just make the change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

sigh this old song and dance

I will paraphrase here what I state in every one of these topics.

This is a L2P issue and I will explain why

A scouts job is to tap structures to divert the enemy groups / attention away from other structures or even maps. It helps with both offensive strats as well as defensive.A scouts job is also to locate enemy groups and to to watch important points for other scouts/tappers....etcThis has been their job since the beginning of WvW

If you are a scout and don't know how to properly do these...L2P a scoutIf you are a commander complaining about these, obv you don't have proper scouts or you haven't ensured you had proper scouts...L2P as a commanderIf your server or linking doesnt have dedicated or proper scouts, or constantly gets fooled and leaving for said objectives (keeps/towers..etc)...L2P as a server/Linking

The longer the tapper keeps the objective sworded...the more L2P is present.

Call it what you will, however it will lead back as a L2P for someone somewhere. Obv the opponents scouts are doing their job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:sigh this old song and dance

I will paraphrase here what I state in every one of these topics.

This is a L2P issue and I will explain why

A scouts job is to tap structures to divert the enemy groups / attention away from other structures or even maps. It helps with both offensive strats as well as defensive.A scouts job is also to locate enemy groups and to to watch important points for other scouts/tappers....etcThis has been their job since the beginning of WvW

If you are a scout and don't know how to properly do these...L2P a scoutIf you are a commander complaining about these, obv you don't have proper scouts or you haven't ensured you had proper scouts...L2P as a commanderIf your server or linking doesnt have dedicated or proper scouts, or constantly gets fooled and leaving for said objectives (keeps/towers..etc)...L2P as a server/Linking

The longer the tapper keeps the objective sworded...the more L2P is present.

Call it what you will, however it will lead back as a L2P for someone somewhere. Obv the opponents scouts are doing their job.

Tell you what. Tell me what server you're on and I will make a minstrel thief and play it whenever you're in WvW. Really, tell me what server. I have a second copy of the game and haven't used it for anything yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:That's what scouts are for.

And how are those scouts going to stop any decent thief or any minstrels thief? Or even a mesmer?

They can't.

They. Are. Not. Supposed. To. Fight. Them.

But they stop your entire group from running there for nothing

Maybe not... but if you figure out which part they're hitting and lay in wait for them... then pounce as they're engaging the guards they can usually be killed without a lot of serious effort. Just have to hit them at the right time with the right stuff. -- have soulbeast will kill --

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean, I dont see why offensive scouts can't build siege to contest waypoints, it isn't that hard. If you start with 25, then flip a camp for 15, you got a ballista to break cannons/oil, or a ram, or a cata. Not too long of a trip. Plus if no one scouts you you get free wall/gate damage, so why not?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It should have been that way since the beginning, WP's should only be contested if either the door or wall is being hit by siege weapons.. and even then it should take a few strikes to trigger the sword and disable the WP.

We should be trying to encourage quick turnaround and quick fights, not delaying by promoting people to port back to spawn. The same goes for people asking for scouts or stating thats what scouts are for. We should be promoting active play, not passive play. The only thing a scout should really be good for is notifying the map where the enemies are when your structures aren't leveled high enough yet. After that, it should be heavily frowned upon parking ones behind in a tower with an itchy trigger finger on siege or tactics.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:It should have been that way since the beginning, WP's should only be contested if either the door or wall is being hit by siege weapons.. and even then it should take a few strikes to trigger the sword and disable the WP.

We should be trying to encourage quick turnaround and quick fights, not delaying by promoting people to port back to spawn. The same goes for people asking for scouts or stating thats what scouts are for. We should be promoting active play, not passive play. The only thing a scout should really be good for is notifying the map where the enemies are when your structures aren't leveled high enough yet. After that, it should be heavily frowned upon parking ones behind in a tower with an itchy trigger finger on siege or tactics.

Yes. We should give all scouts a stern talking to!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:but very rarely
see
a thief doing it,

That's because they're stealthed.

~ Kovu

So are the rangers, what's you're point :).

I've yet to meet a ranger that keeps stealth uptime > 50%. Most wp griefing thieves stealth > 80% uptime. That speaks nothing to the teleports.You can kill rangers that tap keeps if you know to expect them. The same cannot be said for thieves (and mesmers).

~ Kovu

Edit- That said I've always agreed that a single tap of a guard is a little too easy as a means for shutting down a waypoint. I'm in agreement with using siege to contest the structure. Sure its fairly easy to do, but it takes more effort than a single tap and that siege can't be pulled away after the fact.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Zefrost.3425" said:And no one enjoys this: "Keep????" "Just someone tagging keep and running by" or "Keep????" then having to spend 5 minutes exploring all of the attack points only to find out no one is there.

Really? Perhaps you'd like to explain that to my wife, who has been doing that for six years, much to the satisfaction and gratitude of many commnders on her various servers. Scouts love doing that kind of thing. Are you saying we should do away with scouting?

Not to mention every good commander I've ever run with sends someone to tap the nearest waypointed Keep prior to an assault on a structure. Why would you want to remove one of the all-too-limited tactical options from gameplay?

I'm not saying the system couldn't be improved, tactically, but it could do with more options being added not the few we have being taken away.

Oh, and just as a thought, has it occured to you that if swords only trigger when siege is used, blobs will simply PVD their way in? This used to happen before swords were added and even now it happens occasionally. It's pretty easy for a full squad to burn through a T1 door and even a T2 doesn't take that long. Next suggestion is going to be to make gates immune to player damage and pretty soon we may as well just have a big flat plain with marked circles to fight in. I'm sure that would suit some people perfectly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Tiny Doom.4380 said:

@"Zefrost.3425" said:And no one enjoys this:
"Keep????"
"Just someone tagging keep and running by"
or
"Keep????"
then having to spend 5 minutes exploring all of the attack points only to find out no one is there.

Really? Perhaps you'd like to explain that to my wife, who has been doing that for six years, much to the satisfaction and gratitude of many commnders on her various servers. Scouts love doing that kind of thing. Are you saying we should do away with scouting?

Not to mention every good commander I've ever run with sends someone to tap the nearest waypointed Keep prior to an assault on a structure. Why would you want to remove one of the all-too-limited tactical options from gameplay?

I'm not saying the system couldn't be improved, tactically, but it could do with more options being added not the few we have being taken away.

Oh, and just as a thought, has it occured to you that if swords only trigger when siege is used, blobs will simply PVD their way in? This used to happen before swords were added and even now it happens occasionally. It's pretty easy for a full squad to burn through a T1 door and even a T2 doesn't take that long. Next suggestion is going to be to make gates immune to player damage and pretty soon we may as well just have a big flat plain with marked circles to fight in. I'm sure that would suit some people perfectly.

If keeps and waypoints only got contested from siege damage it would not depreciate the value of scouts and a scouts function isn’t just to keep an eye out it’s also to keep siege refreshed and rebuild anything taken out. A ballista costs 30 supply so can be easily constructed by 2 people at a far enough location to contest the keep however a scout can now prevent it being contested by using cannons, mortars and other siege.

The bigger implication is that swords appearing would probably have to be unilateral and so apply to paper towers and other paper structures meaning these would likely be flipped before anyone even realised someone had attacked it. This would require more scouts if you want structures upgraded.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I blame the guards. A complete lack of communication with the rest of the stronghold. One of them needs to speak up and provide an update to map chat. Make it a special color.

Hey, this is joe at South Bay. We got 2 thief’s here. They killed guards bob and frank. The sentry, Dave is dropping fast and the dolly cutie pie is not going to make it to the keep. Looks like just a tap at this point, and I will update as needed.

Anet, please install this much needed version.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Zefrost.3425 said:

sigh
this old song and dance

I will paraphrase here what I state in every one of these topics.

This is a L2P issue and I will explain why

A scouts job is to tap structures to divert the enemy groups / attention away from other structures or even maps. It helps with both offensive strats as well as defensive.A scouts job is also to locate enemy groups and to to watch important points for other scouts/tappers....etcThis has been their job since the beginning of WvW

If you are a scout and don't know how to properly do these...L2P a scoutIf you are a commander complaining about these, obv you don't have proper scouts or you haven't ensured you had proper scouts...L2P as a commanderIf your server or linking doesnt have dedicated or proper scouts, or constantly gets fooled and leaving for said objectives (keeps/towers..etc)...L2P as a server/Linking

The longer the tapper keeps the objective sworded...the more L2P is present.

Call it what you will, however it will lead back as a L2P for someone somewhere. Obv the opponents scouts are doing their job.

Tell you what. Tell me what server you're on and I will make a minstrel thief and play it whenever you're in WvW. Really, tell me what server. I have a second copy of the game and haven't used it for anything yet.

I could use more 1v1 fights so sure. Im in BG, Lemme know your guild tag so I know its you :p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Kovu.7560 said:

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:but very rarely
see
a thief doing it,

That's because they're stealthed.

~ Kovu

So are the rangers, what's you're point :).

I've yet to meet a ranger that keeps stealth uptime > 50%. Most wp griefing thieves stealth > 80% uptime. That speaks nothing to the teleports.You can kill rangers that tap keeps if you know to expect them. The same cannot be said for thieves (and mesmers).

~ Kovu

Edit- That said I've always agreed that a single tap of a guard is a little too easy as a means for shutting down a waypoint. I'm in agreement with using siege to contest the structure. Sure its fairly easy to do, but it takes more effort than a single tap and that siege can't be pulled away after the fact.

and then you would never ever be able to take T3 keeps. Because before you get the siege up, the enemy zerg would port in (no need for ewp, yay) and then it is game over. Or a 2h trebuchet match. Fun!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Kro.7984 said:I blame the guards. A complete lack of communication with the rest of the stronghold. One of them needs to speak up and provide an update to map chat. Make it a special color.

Hey, this is joe at South Bay. We got 2 thief’s here. They killed guards bob and frank. The sentry, Dave is dropping fast and the dolly cutie pie is not going to make it to the keep. Looks like just a tap at this point, and I will update as needed.

Anet, please install this much needed version.

that... that would be awesone...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do wish you at least had to touch the keep to contest it. As it is, you just have to aggro outlaying guards. And you don't have to hit those either, just stay stealthed and throw a siege blueprint at them ;) You're welcome to everyone whose been doing it a harder way.

This become much less of an issue when you don't die much and don't burst a blood vessel on the rare occasion your keep is ninjad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Celsith.2753 said:And you don't have to hit those either, just stay stealthed and throw a siege blueprint at them ;) You're welcome to everyone whose been doing it a harder way.be careful not to hit them with the blueprint tho as it will deal a little damage and reveal you.

And here ive been contesting them like a sucker...attacking the guards myself. Im such a scrub :p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Zefrost.3425 said: Swords shouldn't trigger on keeps unless a siege weapon hits them

Much as I agree with some of the reasons in your post it also opens keeps/towers up to abuse by off-prime blobs willing to go PVD with just weapons skills to stealth flip. Not saying it would happen all the time but it'd no fun either for anyone logging into find everything lost that way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:but very rarely
see
a thief doing it,

That's because they're stealthed.

~ Kovu

So are the rangers, what's you're point :).

I've yet to meet a ranger that keeps stealth uptime > 50%. Most wp griefing thieves stealth > 80% uptime. That speaks nothing to the teleports.You can kill rangers that tap keeps if you know to expect them. The same cannot be said for thieves (and mesmers).

~ Kovu

Edit- That said I've always agreed that a single tap of a guard is a little too easy as a means for shutting down a waypoint. I'm in agreement with using siege to contest the structure. Sure its fairly easy to do, but it takes more effort than a single tap and that siege can't be pulled away after the fact.

and then you would never ever be able to take T3 keeps. Because before you get the siege up, the enemy zerg would port in (no need for ewp, yay) and then it is game over. Or a 2h trebuchet match. Fun!

If you have any number of allies with you it doesn't take long to throw down a piece of siege, build it, and damage a structure.If the enemy is able to port in its because there was a scout -- they were going to port in anyway, regardless. My suggestion doesn't affect that one way or the other.

But eh, it's hardly 'my' suggestion. We've all come up with plenty of ideas over the years, the management has already decided that the status quo is acceptable.

~ kovu

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...