Longbow is NOT 1500 Range

I don't care if it's not viable in zergs this auto attacking/rapid firing bullshit is at least 1800 range and is just about the most annoying and most heavily abused weapon in the game! Please remove that 300 range buffer on this overused weapon

Range in this game dont work well, ive been in situations where hammer rev range is like 800-100, and soemtimes over 1200 to hti cannons from wall on SMC (like many things on this game that feel that this game is in beta state), and some even cheat to get their range incrased.

I don't believe it's 1800 but I haven't got a measuring tape to be sure... however.. NO leave my Soulbeast/Ranger alone... I want to cut you down hard and fast if you would rather run than fight!

I use Engineer and mostly use the mortar as my main weapon. Even with 1500 range and a little aoe circle, if I'm fighting a Ranger with their 1500 longbow range I can't reach them while they can reach me.

But I try not to fuss over it. There are many more problems that should have priority to be fixed.

Projectiles do seem to reach farther than non-projectile skills with the same range/ targeted projectiles

On the wiki, it says that projectiles with arks have a longer range than what's listed in the skill facts. You can test this out. Roll a warrior and compare the max ranges on both the rifle and long bow autoattacks. Even though the skill facts say that both autoattacks have the same range, long bow has a slightly longer range than rifle. Go figure.

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:I don't believe it's 1800 but I haven't got a measuring tape to be sure... however.. NO leave my Soulbeast/Ranger alone... I want to cut you down hard and fast if you would rather run than fight!

I’ll fight if they stop hugging a scourge train.

You can easily test this. Most auto attacks work that way too.

There is a range where your auto attacking is turned off but you are still able to hit targets. That's when you notice you are technically attacking outside the attack range. I would assume that this is because of movement that might prevent an auto attack that SHOULD connect from missing.

Yes longbows seem to have longer range than listed, I don't know if that has to do with piercing on it on or not. You can compare it to every other projectile in the game and they tend to be within their range, but if you check like shooting smc second floor cannons or south hills cannon, rangers can hit those easily while say an elementalist might have problems with their projectile attacks.

Certainly does travel a little further if you're shooting downwards, as then even elementalist attacks like staff fire 1 tend to travel a little further than normal. More realistic? maybe, not sure it's fair to have longbows have that extra range, since they already have the longest range in the game for players anyways. If there's a drop off range, then instead of happening from like 1500-1800 it should be happening between 1200-1500 instead.

@XenesisII.1540 said:Yes longbows seem to have longer range than listed, I don't know if that has to do with piercing on it on or not. You can compare it to every other projectile in the game and they tend to be within their range, but if you check like shooting smc second floor cannons or south hills cannon, rangers can hit those easily while say an elementalist might have problems with their projectile attacks.

Certainly does travel a little further if you're shooting downwards, as then even elementalist attacks like staff fire 1 tend to travel a little further than normal. More realistic? maybe, not sure it's fair to have longbows have that extra range, since they already have the longest range in the game for players anyways. If there's a drop off range, then instead of happening from like 1500-1800 it should be happening between 1200-1500 instead.

I hate to agree, being a Soulbeast LB user... but I agree.. ;)

@CantoGuy.6459 said:I don't care if it's not viable in zergs this auto attacking/rapid firing kitten is at least 1800 range and is just about the most annoying and most heavily abused weapon in the game! Please remove that 300 range buffer on this overused weapon

It is viable in zergs, it's a Scourges worst nightmare.. you know.. those classes that everyone seems to hate and thinks their invincible? As for it being 1800.. no clue and don't care. I just like to shoot necros from afar while they remain helpless.

@DarkReaver.8437 said:I use Engineer and mostly use the mortar as my main weapon. Even with 1500 range and a little aoe circle, if I'm fighting a Ranger with their 1500 longbow range I can't reach them while they can reach me.

But I try not to fuss over it. There are many more problems that should have priority to be fixed.

That's because the pea shooter fires too slow. If the target is moving even a little, it's pretty much impossible to hit while their arrows will track you. In practice, it's a short range weapon.

Yes, lets nerf a longbow ranger's viability and bring them down to the scourge's level. =<

The threads I see sometimes.

~ Kovu

@CantoGuy.6459 said:I don't care if it's not viable in zergs this auto attacking/rapid firing kitten is at least 1800 range and is just about the most annoying and most heavily abused weapon in the game! Please remove that 300 range buffer on this overused weapon

1500 for sure, measuredIf use to 1200 then 1500 seems LONG

/sigh longbow range can infact go further than 1500 on a rangers longbow. Most arcing projectile skills travel further than stated range. This effect is amplified when there is a difference in height between the shooter and the target. Anyone saying otherwise is either wrong or being misleading. I am not saying this to be rude. But just to set things straight for the following conversation.

1st. Longbow rangers aren't the only ones this benefits. Staff elementalists also gain a huge benefit from this. Though they may not realize that its happening. So does mortar kit from the engineer. Warrior Longbow. And any other weapon/skill/utility that has an arcing projectile.

2nd. This isn't anything new. This has existed for years and people have KNOWN that it has existed for years. We have long since gone past the point of calling this a bug. Its a feature at this point until someone from anet corrects us. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say these weapons are balanced around this range.

3rd. Is this OP... Frankly? No. And im not saying that just because I am a ranger main. The maximum possible range we can fire at is almost too short. Because most threats to us can cross that distance incredibly quickly. Including the direct competition for our roles in wvw the thief and mesmer. Warrior can also close that distance quite quickly. The only class that is truly punished by long range is necromancer. And frankly. Its good that it is. A necromancer at close range played well is INCREDIBLY lethal. And if projectiles were locked at 1500 range it would leave the archer archetype rangers INCREDIBLY vulnerable. Disproportionately so for the reward involved. I get thats not what alot of people want to hear. I understand alot of people are going to want to make excuses about it ranging from "But that range hard counters me! (No it doesn't their are almost always tools you can use ranging from utility skills to terrain) which will just lead to talk of "well the ranger can just run un blockable making my utility pointless" (Honestly I feel the unblockable is OP as SHIT in wvw. It turns soulbeast into the ultimate driver snipe class and should be toned down but thats a problem with unblockable not the range) "Well NOTHING should be able to shoot me from that range" (Thats a matter of opinion not fact. Ranged builds have moderate to high burst but much MUCH lower sustained damage than melee options. Yes they can make the burst difficult to avoid. But that is temporary. If you CAN survive it they have nothing to do but plunk away at you. If they are running very high sustained damage then they are completely glass. Have a friend chase them down if you are too slow) "Well if I chase them they just run away and then come back and do it again a few seconds later" (Thats part of being a slow class/build... you are utterly devestating at close range but at long range you are vulnerable)

See how long this can go on? Its because we have had this conversation before in a hundred different formats on these forums already about hundreds of different subjects.

If you want to make the range on the longbow your current target go ahead. I can't stop you. But frankly when you target that out of the other possible options (The massive unblockable uptime and burst potential for example) that could give the build more counterplay without gutting the playstyle its just depressing. And ultimately it won't fix the situation you are likely in. Youl just get bursted from slightly closer range. All you do is hurt the other playstyle without even fixing whats hurting you.

This has already gone on for awhile so ill end it here. To the people intentionally spreading misinformation. Please stop. It just hurts the conversation. And that goes to people on both sides.

Edit: I remember their used to be this magical role called PICK that people used to run. Its job was to kill enemy squishies. But its job was ALSO to get rid of pesky longbow rangers, Thieves, Mesmers, etc that are pew pewing YOUR backline. But then commanders in all their wisdom pushed their zergs into comps where these builds just wern't optimal. Thats fine. But now that these builds are coming back people are still refusing to actually set up counter pick. Ideally you should never be feeling enemy arrows. Because you should have your own guy shooting him/her in the face every time he looks at you. But hey. Why ask 2-3 people to counter them when you can just go to the forums.

@"Shadelang.3012" said:And if projectiles were locked at 1500 range it would leave the archer archetype rangers INCREDIBLY vulnerable.

This seems to imply that the "archer archetype" doesnt have melee weapons when people get up close. They do.

@"Dawdler.8521" Which implies instead that having a weapons length cut off can make said weapon less useful in most matchups due to the more stringent requirements in its use and the increased ease of neutralization. You would find a ranger at 1500 range FAR easier to deal with on a scourge than one with the current range. Im sure that is whats desired in this post. NO having a melee weapon would NOT counteract this change in any way shape or form. Unless you mean in the rangers ability to run away. It implies that having one of your weapons being a RISK to use instead of a strength in nearly all situations shows that the weapon has cross the line form a strength to a weakness. it implies that having your primary pressure option be so easy to negate that the second you enter the very range you need to hit someone you have to weapon swap is bad for not only that weapon but any build that uses it.

Nearly every experienced ranger can tell you that we use our melee weapons half the time for the purpose of delaying the fight. Thats because we know that we are weaker in melee that most classes. We CAN melee trade with people. But its at a rediculously high risk. We typically have to use the longbow to strip an opponents defenses before closing with them. Because meleeing an enemy target when they have full access to their defensives and utilities is often a foolhardy venture. It is why druid ran staff, for disengage and ranged pressure, and why rangers have used longbow for an extremely long time in most builds. The exceptions are very tanky builds that wont have the damage to do what is described above.

Longbow requires heavy stat investment and utility investment in order to be useful. Its high burst comes at the cost of a couple utility slots and sometimes even an entire traitline. The traits I might add give zero benefit to melee or even close range encounters. Investment in the longbows usefulness comes at the cost of my melee effectiveness. I will say in almost any build I can currently create I am WEAKER in melee than when I have the option of both.

A longbow with 1500 range is 60 range outside of the range of staff marks. Now that may seem great "Hey your range is longer" Thats less than half a second of movement. There is not a single ranger in this game that can reliably toe that 60 range. I can confidently say their is not ONE who can do it against even a SLIGHTLY decent aggressive opponent.

And a ranger who is getting bogged down by staff marks is actually alot easier to kill. Can a ranger still win that fight? Sure. But now he is being slowed down. Which means he is very soon in sand shades. Were also not forgetting about the sand swell movement options. So now a burst build is stuck in range of a class with one of the HIGHEST counterburst potentials in this entire game.

Meleeing a necromancer is almost always a bad Idea. My years in pvp and wvw can tell me that. it is AMAZING how many times you can get a necromancer down to 5% health go in to melee for the kill and be forced off a few seconds later. This is especially true with scourge.

Why am I singling out necromancer? Because it is the only class that would complain seriously about longbows range. It is the only class vulnerable to it. However scourge is also one of the easiest butcher of rangers when the ranger is locked into a smaller area with it.

Using our melee weapons as an example is like saying "Well I took away your gun here use this sword" against people that can KILL YOU BY TOUCHING YOU. Yes you have a chance at winning. But the second you make even the SLIGHTEST mistake with one of our melee weapons you are probably fucked.

I would like to remind people that rangers longbow range used to have a shorter range. It was able to fire at about 1500 using the mentioned methods. It had a TRAIT that required the ranger to invest in marksmanship for its current range. HOWEVER. It was considered a WEAK weapon and this trait was mandatory to make it worth using. That means that the CURRENT range was considered mandatory to make it worth using. This trait was made baseline BY arena net KNOWING about the way that projectiles interacted with the game world. They KNEW this range would be possible. Their is no way they did not. But they chose to do it because the weapon was under-performing without this. That says far more about the requirements laid upon this weapons use that almost anything else I could say does.

Edit: And the best part is NONE OF THIS IS NEW. Ranger has had this range for YEARS. So why the sudden complaints? Is no one going to check and see what changed to suddenly make it oppressive? Should I make it easier for you? Ill help. Its unblockable. Archer rangers as an archetype have for YEARS been hardcountered by zergs. Simply because of hte massive amount of aegis and reflect flying around them. But recently ranger against access to 2 very good sources of unblockable. Suddenly our arrows are actually hitting and dealing damage. Meaning all those squishy necromancers that hid in the zerg and just ran away whenever they felt an arrow touch em and now actually being pelted by them. That isn't OP. Its FUNCTIONAL. Is their too much unblockable? If this thread had targeted that I might actually say yes. I feel the two sources combined gives just a little too much freedom to pressure. Especially seeing as how the ranger can now do it from the safety of his own zerg where before he had to put himself in awkward positions and limit his targets to those on the outskirts. But thats a whole nother discussion about one specific build. Instead I am here trying to defend an entire plethora of builds that have existed for YEARS with next to no complaints. You know why? Because before ranger got that unblockable even with its long range it was considered a class that had no place in zerg fights. It was a ROAMING build. But now it can actually do something in zerg fights.

Nah come on, this scourge is playing in WvW, this complains aren't even in PvP.This is clearly a L2P issue.

Let me guess. You play a necro? :)Thanks God for rangers to deal with that scourge epidemic.

Rangers are fine, nothing to nerf here. In fact, I believe they've reached a stage where they seem pretty balanced, both condi and power wise.

What bothers me is that the rifle doesn't have the arcing projectile feature. They should at least be on par so classes like Deadeye become useful in defending towers because that could be one of their primary uses in WvW. They would make excellent sentries. For all I care, remove their DJ and give them more range, that could make it a lot more interesting.

@OP, Even the slightest narrow terrain renders a projectile invalid, so don't complain if you go against a ranged class, stand there and get killed. Use your brain a little. Terrain diversity, especially on maps like the desert borderland, is huge. Use it to your advantage and hide behind the nearest obstacle or just get as far as you can and wait for a proper opportunity to engage a ranger.

It's silly that people have to remind you of basic, common sense and you come demand for nerfs out of something that is your own fault.

@Inoki.6048 said:

@OP, Even the slightest narrow terrain renders a projectile invalid, so don't complain if you go against a ranged class, stand there and get killed. Use your brain a little.

While the OP's point is valid, I'd argue that it is compensated by the reality that even the slightest incline in terrain can block a LB. True, if you adopt the correct strategy which is to be on the high ground, you have no problems, but really I don't see Rangers tearing up WvW in any way shape or form. If you made a list of the Top 5 professions that were melting you in WvW, I doubt Ranger LB would appear.

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:

@OP, Even the slightest narrow terrain renders a projectile invalid, so don't complain if you go against a ranged class, stand there and get killed. Use your brain a little.

of course not. With this much projectile hate they barely make it there and possibly never will. With the addition of Soulbeast and a change of other traits they finally do decent damage on long range.

@CantoGuy.6459 said:I don't care if it's not viable in zergs this auto attacking/rapid firing kitten is at least 1800 range and is just about the most annoying and most heavily abused weapon in the game! Please remove that 300 range buffer on this overused weapon

Another cry wolf Necro (who is the most broken meta class in WvW). I guess you guys are hoping ANet will nerf all ranged classes (first was thief''s PP and Rifle, now ranger's longbow) so that scrouges are untouchable and will reign supreme in WvW? Nice try though : D

@Shadelang.3012 said:

It is indeed a feature but that doesn't mean it's exempt from nerfs.

The more level-headed of us understand the fact that many arcing projectiles in this game travel further than advertised range. That magnitude of the extra distance buffer in my opinion is what needs to be nerfed. OP is right; ranger's longbow in particular actually does travel something like 1800-1900 range (effect is more pronounced if target is equal or lower elevation than you). A friend measured it once and told me the distance was about equal to JI + sword 2 on guardian (1200 teleport + 600 teleport).

Having a distance/range buffer is fine, but not a nearly 25% distance buffer. It should be more like 5-10%, so +100 units putting longbow at 1600 total range is fine. Honestly if you're noticing considerably worse results with a 1600 range vs. 1900 range attack that means you're getting carried by an unintended feature.

Rangers are really annoying to fight against but like what has been said many times is don't fight them in open field, just use a rock and they will come to you