Longbow is NOT 1500 Range - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Longbow is NOT 1500 Range

24

Answers

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    Can Roy or Karl (if you still work there?) comment on this.

    Or one of the new guys, go check arcing vs non-arcing shots with the range indicator. Unless you have changed something the statement of all ranged skills having a buffer is false.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dralor.3701 said:
    Can Roy or Karl (if you still work there?) comment on this.

    Or one of the new guys, go check arcing vs non-arcing shots with the range indicator. Unless you have changed something the statement of all ranged skills having a buffer is false.

    It not a statement on all ranged skills it’s a statement on all Melee and Ranged skills have the Buffer, and t is false since Mesmer GS and Rifles/Pistols are missing it but every other Melee and Ranged skills have it. And we have asked multiple time even tagging Karl in the poss to look into it, with zero acknowledgment to the posts multiple times

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    What do you want them to look into? It’s working the way it is supposed to. More often than not the skills don’t have the increased range, there are just a few exceptions in the cases of skills that arc.

    Mesmer GS is also not a projectile weapon so it really shouldn’t even be in the discussion.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dralor.3701 said:
    What do you want them to look into? It’s working the way it is supposed to. More often than not the skills don’t have the increased range, there are just a few exceptions in the cases of skills that arc.

    Mesmer GS is also not a projectile weapon so it really shouldn’t even be in the discussion.

    Working as intended aye? Do you have a Dev post stating 1500 Range isn’t supposed to equal 1500 Range? Do You have a Dev post to substantiate that claim? No? I have a Dev post that specifically states otherwise.

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    I don’t know who is currently working there but when I did I would trust maybe three of them to know how the skills actually work.

    Imo keep asking for an explanation from Karl and Roy. Maybe someone else on the skills and balance team, otherwise Dev tag =\= knowledgeable.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dralor.3701 said:
    I don’t know who is currently working there but when I did I would trust maybe three of them to know how the skills actually work.

    Imo keep asking for an explanation from Karl and Roy. Maybe someone else on the skills and balance team, otherwise Dev tag =\= knowledgeable.

    The Dev was a PvP and Balance Dev if I recall I would hope they would know something about the skills in game

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    Getting way off topic but if it wasn’t one of those two, probably not. Not really the persons fault either if they never physically tested the skills.

    Not trying to argue for what it’s worth just trying to shed some light.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dralor.3701 said:
    Getting way off topic but if it wasn’t one of those two, probably not. Not really the persons fault either if they never physically tested the skills.

    Not trying to argue for what it’s worth just trying to shed some light.

    I would just love any explanation at all good or bad if it’s intended or not and if it is why they list said Skills at X Range when they clearly extend past those ranges.

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    My only guess in the tooltips is they don’t want to bother putting in additional ranges. It is cleaner albeit more confusing as is?

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I can fix all of this with 1 simple addition.

    It’s so simple you’ll all groan at how plainly obvious it is.

    All they need to do is change the tool tip to

    ”Range: about 1,500”

  • Blackarps.1974Blackarps.1974 Member ✭✭✭

    The biggest problem right now is that people are playing zerker soulbeast builds that can one shot you from 1500 range. As soon as you get near them or in range, they've already used leaps to get away to the back of their zerg or group. Then the problem is glorified when half the pugs are running this kind of build and you just down before you can even get close enough to start doing damage. I had 5 rangers on me the other day, 3 of their pets were at my feet when I downed. I couldn't help but laugh at both the situation and poor balance.

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    I mostly use full zerk on my chars and I have not experienced this. Even if you only dodge once during the rapid fire/cds you shouldn’t die.

    Mesmer burst is by far the scariest thing right now. So much soulbeast and deadeye hate when they aren’t even meta..

  • Seteruss.4058Seteruss.4058 Member ✭✭✭

    Yes, nerf rangers so I can spread the red carpet on top of them, cause now some of us necros are falling on rapid shots.
    That way wvw will have completely necros, guards and warriors... Maybe some bomb revs also.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I just wish we could receive clarification on this topic, even a "We're looking into this" would be appreciated.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Someone recently showed me that the action camera can help you hit shots you normally can't, since you can aim a little over the target, giving your shot more of an arc, and allowing it to travel farther. This is very evident with staff Ele and Engi mortar kit when destroying siege on walls.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shagaliscious.6281 said:
    Someone recently showed me that the action camera can help you hit shots you normally can't, since you can aim a little over the target, giving your shot more of an arc, and allowing it to travel farther. This is very evident with staff Ele and Engi mortar kit when destroying siege on walls.

    The issue we are describing doesn’t rely on Action Camera it’s how they work with normal camera, their range states 1200 or 1500 but they are in fact a lot further.

  • Blackarps.1974Blackarps.1974 Member ✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Blackarps.1974 said:
    The biggest problem right now is that people are playing zerker soulbeast builds that can one shot you from 1500 range. As soon as you get near them or in range, they've already used leaps to get away to the back of their zerg or group. Then the problem is glorified when half the pugs are running this kind of build and you just down before you can even get close enough to start doing damage. I had 5 rangers on me the other day, 3 of their pets were at my feet when I downed. I couldn't help but laugh at both the situation and poor balance.

    If 5 people focus you, regardless of class, you should die..

    Well yeah, but my point was that it was all rangers and all near that 1200-1500 range. Not that I should have lived. If you can do big damage from the furthest range in the game, why play anything else as a pug? That's the problem I'm starting to see.

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    Mesmer is the best for roaming, scourge is the best for blobbing soul beast is a non-issue unless you have slow reaction time.

    I’ve been blown up by the pure glass sickem build too, just saying it isn’t very good. :)

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blackarps.1974 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Blackarps.1974 said:
    The biggest problem right now is that people are playing zerker soulbeast builds that can one shot you from 1500 range. As soon as you get near them or in range, they've already used leaps to get away to the back of their zerg or group. Then the problem is glorified when half the pugs are running this kind of build and you just down before you can even get close enough to start doing damage. I had 5 rangers on me the other day, 3 of their pets were at my feet when I downed. I couldn't help but laugh at both the situation and poor balance.

    If 5 people focus you, regardless of class, you should die..

    Well yeah, but my point was that it was all rangers and all near that 1200-1500 range. Not that I should have lived. If you can do big damage from the furthest range in the game, why play anything else as a pug? That's the problem I'm starting to see.

    Fair point. I guess I look at them as part of the scourge solution. Probably intentionally so on some level.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dralor.3701 said:
    Mesmer is the best for roaming, scourge is the best for blobbing soul beast is a non-issue unless you have slow reaction time.

    I’ve been blown up by the pure glass sickem build too, just saying it isn’t very good. :)

    I run it as one of my 2 ranger builds. It is a turret build. Great quick burst dps, no stunbreak or condition clears. Sure, it hits like a truck and can be made unblockable, but just about every other class can provide the same with better options.

    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
    For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blackarps.1974 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Blackarps.1974 said:
    The biggest problem right now is that people are playing zerker soulbeast builds that can one shot you from 1500 range. As soon as you get near them or in range, they've already used leaps to get away to the back of their zerg or group. Then the problem is glorified when half the pugs are running this kind of build and you just down before you can even get close enough to start doing damage. I had 5 rangers on me the other day, 3 of their pets were at my feet when I downed. I couldn't help but laugh at both the situation and poor balance.

    If 5 people focus you, regardless of class, you should die..

    Well yeah, but my point was that it was all rangers and all near that 1200-1500 range. Not that I should have lived. If you can do big damage from the furthest range in the game, why play anything else as a pug? That's the problem I'm starting to see.

    Because 1 spellbreaker can walk up and easily kill 2-5 of them. There are a LOT of broken things right now, but longbow range (for ranger and guardian) isn't one of them.

    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
    For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.

  • Arcaedus.7290Arcaedus.7290 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2018

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Ubi.4136 said:
    Things that go longer than their listed range is quite extensive.
    Few examples:
    ranger longbow auto
    guardian longbow auto
    ele staff fire auto

    If OP is asking for all of them to be fixed at the same time, than sure. Make ALL skills cap at their max range and just disappear without hitting anything when they pass their listed range.

    Which they should because as it sits now “1200”Range Bows shoot further than 1500 Range non Bow attacks or they need to give all attacks missing the Range Buffer the Range Buffer that they should have as stated by a Dev Tyler Chapman:
    “17. Intended. All ranged and melee skills have a 15% buffer range to take account for tracking.”

    I just tested this on my DH moments ago. I don't have a precise range, but I estimate that DH's longbow auto attack (on seemingly flat ground) can strike targets about 1650 units away.

    Method: The way I tested this was strike target at maximum range (where even a very slight press of the back key results in 'out of range'), JI to target (I tested JI against trueshot, they both seem to travel the same distance so the assumption is that JI is accurately measures 1200 range), then attempted to hit target with a 300 range skill (staff auto attack) which was barely unsuccessful.
    From this point, I needed to move around 100-150 units forward (about the range of a melee attack, 130 units, which my only proof here is the apparent animation range of a greatsword swing's length forward) before staff auto attack was capable of hitting.

    All in all, that's 1200 + 300 + 150 units = 37.5% range buffer. If you apply this same math to ranger longbow, you arrive at a range of 2062.5. Even if you round down to the nearest 25, that's 2050 units which @Justine.6351's video gives undeniable evidence for ("Sic Em!" has a range of 2000 units and longbow clearly out-ranges this).

    I think it's safe to say that regardless of coding, the effective range buffer for arcing projectiles in this game is between 33% and 37.5%. That's a bit excessive if you ask me. Like OP argued, this should be nerfed, or other projectiles should be buffed. It's a very significant and unfair discrepancy if we leave things as they are now.

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ubi.4136 said:

    @Dralor.3701 said:
    Mesmer is the best for roaming, scourge is the best for blobbing soul beast is a non-issue unless you have slow reaction time.

    I’ve been blown up by the pure glass sickem build too, just saying it isn’t very good. :)

    I run it as one of my 2 ranger builds. It is a turret build. Great quick burst dps, no stunbreak or condition clears. Sure, it hits like a truck and can be made unblockable, but just about every other class can provide the same with better options.

    Hold on. :)

    I don’t think it is OP but you should still have at least 1-2 stun breaks and 1-2 ivuln. I don’t think any class has this kind of sustained damage at this range... but again doesn’t mean it isn’t fine for one class to fill that niche.

    Let’s just be honest on both sides of the discussion.

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dralor.3701 said:

    @Ubi.4136 said:

    @Dralor.3701 said:
    Mesmer is the best for roaming, scourge is the best for blobbing soul beast is a non-issue unless you have slow reaction time.

    I’ve been blown up by the pure glass sickem build too, just saying it isn’t very good. :)

    I run it as one of my 2 ranger builds. It is a turret build. Great quick burst dps, no stunbreak or condition clears. Sure, it hits like a truck and can be made unblockable, but just about every other class can provide the same with better options.

    Hold on. :)

    I don’t think it is OP but you should still have at least 1-2 stun breaks and 1-2 ivuln. I don’t think any class has this kind of sustained damage at this range... but again doesn’t mean it isn’t fine for one class to fill that niche.

    Let’s just be honest on both sides of the discussion.

    You can take the lesser signet trait for 1 invul, but at a dps loss. Hunter's gaze is a better trait based on trying to solely be dps burst.
    Utilities are generally:
    troll unguent (to help counter a few conditions)
    signet of the hunt (for unblockable)
    sic em (burst; anti-stealth)
    signet of stone (my personal choice - cause squishy af)
    Ooe wolf pack (burst)

    No stun breaks, and a single invulnerable. Literally, it's best used as a wall turret build.

    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
    For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.

  • Whiteout.1975Whiteout.1975 Member ✭✭✭

    Priority... There is such a lack of it.
    If a fast moving Truck is about to hit you. As well as a some kid's high-speed flying Soccer Ball on the street... which would you rather try to avoid?

    Like, I get it, 1500 range is not always quite as advertised. But it's recognized by the one(s) whom made it that way. "The projectile flies in a small arc and can actually hit targets outside of the maximum range." source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Long_Range_Shot To add to that, the last time they touched it was in June of 2015 according to the history of the skills on the wiki. Meaning that the range has stayed 1500 or sometimes, possibly more because of the "arc", throughout that time. However, now it's a concern here in 2018... Make whatever you want out of that...

    That being said, I don't have a problem with ranger having their own niche at something their good at. In comparison to "X" class in what it's good at in terms of WvW. So long as they can both be seen in a way that's near equal, respectively...
    The reason I asked the rhetorical question at the beginning is because I believe there are bigger problems right now around other classes. Not to say that the concern around longbow shouldn't be a concern... It's just that I'm gonna be more concerned with the classes that are actually helping the most. In terms of winning WvW (The actual game mode). Initially being Scourges and Firebrands...

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2018

    @Whiteout.1975 said:
    Priority... There is such a lack of it.
    If a fast moving Truck is about to hit you. As well as a some kid's high-speed flying Soccer Ball on the street... which would you rather try to avoid?

    Like, I get it, 1500 range is not always quite as advertised. But it's recognized by the one(s) whom made it that way. "The projectile flies in a small arc and can actually hit targets outside of the maximum range." source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Long_Range_Shot To add to that, the last time they touched it was in June of 2015 according to the history of the skills on the wiki. Meaning that the range has stayed 1500 or sometimes, possibly more because of the "arc", throughout that time. However, now it's a concern here in 2018... Make whatever you want out of that...

    That being said, I don't have a problem with ranger having their own niche at something their good at. In comparison to "X" class in what it's good at in terms of WvW. So long as they can both be seen in a way that's near equal, respectively...
    The reason I asked the rhetorical question at the beginning is because I believe there are bigger problems right now around other classes. Not to say that the concern around longbow shouldn't be a concern... It's just that I'm gonna be more concerned with the classes that are actually helping the most. In terms of winning WvW (The actual game mode). Initially being Scourges and Firebrands...

    It’s not sometimes it’s all the time for one and it’s an issue when you have 2 classes both listed as max range of X distance but one clearly outperforms the other in respect to it and it’s not just Ranger, the other Longbows at 1200 Range also outperform the 1500 Range Weapon in terms of distance (common sense tells us 1500 is greater than 1200), and there is zero source that it’s due to Arc so far, and with that there is a Dev post stating all Melee and Ranged skills are supposed to have a Range Buffer which is clearly lacking from a lot of Skills.

    And one last time why have something state is Max Range when it is clear as day a lot further than that Max Range? Like I said previously I would like a Dev from the Balance team or a Credible Dev like Ben P to answer if it’s intended or not and if so why the misleading Ranges?

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ubi.4136 said:

    @Dralor.3701 said:

    @Ubi.4136 said:

    @Dralor.3701 said:
    Mesmer is the best for roaming, scourge is the best for blobbing soul beast is a non-issue unless you have slow reaction time.

    I’ve been blown up by the pure glass sickem build too, just saying it isn’t very good. :)

    I run it as one of my 2 ranger builds. It is a turret build. Great quick burst dps, no stunbreak or condition clears. Sure, it hits like a truck and can be made unblockable, but just about every other class can provide the same with better options.

    Hold on. :)

    I don’t think it is OP but you should still have at least 1-2 stun breaks and 1-2 ivuln. I don’t think any class has this kind of sustained damage at this range... but again doesn’t mean it isn’t fine for one class to fill that niche.

    Let’s just be honest on both sides of the discussion.

    You can take the lesser signet trait for 1 invul, but at a dps loss. Hunter's gaze is a better trait based on trying to solely be dps burst.
    Utilities are generally:
    troll unguent (to help counter a few conditions)
    signet of the hunt (for unblockable)
    sic em (burst; anti-stealth)
    signet of stone (my personal choice - cause squishy af)
    Ooe wolf pack (burst)

    No stun breaks, and a single invulnerable. Literally, it's best used as a wall turret build.

    These are not great utility choices imo, also not considering soul beast pet abilities.

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Whiteout.1975 said:
    Priority... There is such a lack of it.
    If a fast moving Truck is about to hit you. As well as a some kid's high-speed flying Soccer Ball on the street... which would you rather try to avoid?

    Like, I get it, 1500 range is not always quite as advertised. But it's recognized by the one(s) whom made it that way. "The projectile flies in a small arc and can actually hit targets outside of the maximum range." source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Long_Range_Shot To add to that, the last time they touched it was in June of 2015 according to the history of the skills on the wiki. Meaning that the range has stayed 1500 or sometimes, possibly more because of the "arc", throughout that time. However, now it's a concern here in 2018... Make whatever you want out of that...

    That being said, I don't have a problem with ranger having their own niche at something their good at. In comparison to "X" class in what it's good at in terms of WvW. So long as they can both be seen in a way that's near equal, respectively...
    The reason I asked the rhetorical question at the beginning is because I believe there are bigger problems right now around other classes. Not to say that the concern around longbow shouldn't be a concern... It's just that I'm gonna be more concerned with the classes that are actually helping the most. In terms of winning WvW (The actual game mode). Initially being Scourges and Firebrands...

    It’s not sometimes it’s all the time for one and it’s an issue when you have 2 classes both listed as max range of X distance but one clearly outperforms the other in respect to it and it’s not just Ranger, the other Longbows at 1200 Range also outperform the 1500 Range Weapon in terms of distance (common sense tells us 1500 is greater than 1200), and there is zero source that it’s due to Arc so far, and with that there is a Dev post stating all Melee and Ranged skills are supposed to have a Range Buffer which is clearly lacking from a lot of Skills.

    And one last time why have something state is Max Range when it is clear as day a lot further than that Max Range? Like I said previously I would like a Dev from the Balance team or a Credible Dev like Ben P to answer if it’s intended or not and if so why the misleading Ranges?

    I’m telling you man it’s intended (or was back in 2013-2014) not sure as to the logic though.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2018

    This thread is crammed full of bitter hyperbole fueled by a video of someone firing a ranged weapon with massive height advantage.

    ~ Kovu

    Edit- Seriously. Reading back nobody even acknowledged the height difference in that video. And lol @ ranger burst outdoing a deadeye. Yeah. Right.

    Ranger main before it was viable.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kovu.7560 said:
    This thread is crammed full of bitter hyperbole fueled by a video of someone firing a ranged weapon with massive height advantage.

    ~ Kovu

    Edit- Seriously. Reading back nobody even acknowledged the height difference in that video. And lol @ ranger burst outdoing a deadeye. Yeah. Right.

    Nope I’m referencing a Video of players on even ground, higher elevation and lower elevation, etc the range doesn’t change at all, it is just blatantly further distance

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dralor.3701 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Whiteout.1975 said:
    Priority... There is such a lack of it.
    If a fast moving Truck is about to hit you. As well as a some kid's high-speed flying Soccer Ball on the street... which would you rather try to avoid?

    Like, I get it, 1500 range is not always quite as advertised. But it's recognized by the one(s) whom made it that way. "The projectile flies in a small arc and can actually hit targets outside of the maximum range." source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Long_Range_Shot To add to that, the last time they touched it was in June of 2015 according to the history of the skills on the wiki. Meaning that the range has stayed 1500 or sometimes, possibly more because of the "arc", throughout that time. However, now it's a concern here in 2018... Make whatever you want out of that...

    That being said, I don't have a problem with ranger having their own niche at something their good at. In comparison to "X" class in what it's good at in terms of WvW. So long as they can both be seen in a way that's near equal, respectively...
    The reason I asked the rhetorical question at the beginning is because I believe there are bigger problems right now around other classes. Not to say that the concern around longbow shouldn't be a concern... It's just that I'm gonna be more concerned with the classes that are actually helping the most. In terms of winning WvW (The actual game mode). Initially being Scourges and Firebrands...

    It’s not sometimes it’s all the time for one and it’s an issue when you have 2 classes both listed as max range of X distance but one clearly outperforms the other in respect to it and it’s not just Ranger, the other Longbows at 1200 Range also outperform the 1500 Range Weapon in terms of distance (common sense tells us 1500 is greater than 1200), and there is zero source that it’s due to Arc so far, and with that there is a Dev post stating all Melee and Ranged skills are supposed to have a Range Buffer which is clearly lacking from a lot of Skills.

    And one last time why have something state is Max Range when it is clear as day a lot further than that Max Range? Like I said previously I would like a Dev from the Balance team or a Credible Dev like Ben P to answer if it’s intended or not and if so why the misleading Ranges?

    I’m telling you man it’s intended (or was back in 2013-2014) not sure as to the logic though.

    And who are you again? And can you provide any legit statement of this because there is a statement from a PvP/Balance Dev that states all Melee and Ranged skills are supposed to have a range Buffer which is clearly lacking from certain weapons.

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    Was just some guy that tested stuff, nobody important. This was years ago so things could have changed?

    That being said 99.9% sure the dev in question was wrong, you have pretty much said so yourself with that last statement. You could test all the arcing projectiles vs non arcing vs beam/auto hit (like Mesmer gs and necro axe) and you will see the same behavior.

    Ranger longbow behaves a little weird given the way the basic shots work vs how it plays with some of the marksman traits.

  • Whiteout.1975Whiteout.1975 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2018

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Whiteout.1975 said:
    Priority... There is such a lack of it.
    If a fast moving Truck is about to hit you. As well as a some kid's high-speed flying Soccer Ball on the street... which would you rather try to avoid?

    Like, I get it, 1500 range is not always quite as advertised. But it's recognized by the one(s) whom made it that way. "The projectile flies in a small arc and can actually hit targets outside of the maximum range." source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Long_Range_Shot To add to that, the last time they touched it was in June of 2015 according to the history of the skills on the wiki. Meaning that the range has stayed 1500 or sometimes, possibly more because of the "arc", throughout that time. However, now it's a concern here in 2018... Make whatever you want out of that...

    That being said, I don't have a problem with ranger having their own niche at something their good at. In comparison to "X" class in what it's good at in terms of WvW. So long as they can both be seen in a way that's near equal, respectively...
    The reason I asked the rhetorical question at the beginning is because I believe there are bigger problems right now around other classes. Not to say that the concern around longbow shouldn't be a concern... It's just that I'm gonna be more concerned with the classes that are actually helping the most. In terms of winning WvW (The actual game mode). Initially being Scourges and Firebrands...

    It’s not sometimes it’s all the time for one and it’s an issue when you have 2 classes both listed as max range of X distance but one clearly outperforms the other in respect to it and it’s not just Ranger, the other Longbows at 1200 Range also outperform the 1500 Range Weapon in terms of distance (common sense tells us 1500 is greater than 1200), and there is zero source that it’s due to Arc so far, and with that there is a Dev post stating all Melee and Ranged skills are supposed to have a Range Buffer which is clearly lacking from a lot of Skills.

    And one last time why have something state is Max Range when it is clear as day a lot further than that Max Range? Like I said previously I would like a Dev from the Balance team or a Credible Dev like Ben P to answer if it’s intended or not and if so why the misleading Ranges?

    Yes Ik... I was referring to "sometimes" being if you are past 1500 range then it can go past the given 1500 range...
    Ok, so I was addressing the original concern, that being ranger's longbow. From the "OP" mentioning rapid fire. Not longbows in general.

    Now speaking on your issue (a separate, but relate-able issue). As you are addressing longbows in general... In the sense that their descriptions are also not accurate. To which I would agree. In game descriptions could perhaps be a bit better in describing the possible ranges.
    Maybe Longbow's are meant to outperform... I couldn't tell you. However, the part that list: "can actually hit targets outside of the maximum range", Is still recognized...
    Speaking in regards to the range, given that they last worked on Longbow in 2015 and it's now 2018. I would be just a little bit surprised if they didn't realize how far it could hit by now...

    The "Arc" giving how it is structured in the sentence... to me, implies that this is because of the Arc.
    Rather than mentioning the "Arc" under it's own bullet point under the notes on the wiki, like so...

    • The projectile flies in a small arc

    They purposefully include it within the same bullet point and apart of the same sentence... like so

    • The projectile flies in a small arc and can actually hit targets outside of the maximum range.

    So one would assume that it's due to the arc because of this.
    Also, again my original post was in regards to the ranger and it's longbow. Not longbow's in general. So in regards to your issues with misleading descriptions involving the max ranges... Yea perhaps they could be better... This wouldn't be the first time or 50th time they updated a in-game description...
    Though, yes by all means if a Dev can answer you... I'm all for that.

    Despite all this, this doesn't confront my issue being the Priority...

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Whiteout.1975 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Whiteout.1975 said:
    Priority... There is such a lack of it.
    If a fast moving Truck is about to hit you. As well as a some kid's high-speed flying Soccer Ball on the street... which would you rather try to avoid?

    Like, I get it, 1500 range is not always quite as advertised. But it's recognized by the one(s) whom made it that way. "The projectile flies in a small arc and can actually hit targets outside of the maximum range." source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Long_Range_Shot To add to that, the last time they touched it was in June of 2015 according to the history of the skills on the wiki. Meaning that the range has stayed 1500 or sometimes, possibly more because of the "arc", throughout that time. However, now it's a concern here in 2018... Make whatever you want out of that...

    That being said, I don't have a problem with ranger having their own niche at something their good at. In comparison to "X" class in what it's good at in terms of WvW. So long as they can both be seen in a way that's near equal, respectively...
    The reason I asked the rhetorical question at the beginning is because I believe there are bigger problems right now around other classes. Not to say that the concern around longbow shouldn't be a concern... It's just that I'm gonna be more concerned with the classes that are actually helping the most. In terms of winning WvW (The actual game mode). Initially being Scourges and Firebrands...

    It’s not sometimes it’s all the time for one and it’s an issue when you have 2 classes both listed as max range of X distance but one clearly outperforms the other in respect to it and it’s not just Ranger, the other Longbows at 1200 Range also outperform the 1500 Range Weapon in terms of distance (common sense tells us 1500 is greater than 1200), and there is zero source that it’s due to Arc so far, and with that there is a Dev post stating all Melee and Ranged skills are supposed to have a Range Buffer which is clearly lacking from a lot of Skills.

    And one last time why have something state is Max Range when it is clear as day a lot further than that Max Range? Like I said previously I would like a Dev from the Balance team or a Credible Dev like Ben P to answer if it’s intended or not and if so why the misleading Ranges?

    Yes Ik... I was referring to "sometimes" being if you are past 1500 range then it can go past the given 1500 range...
    Ok, so I was addressing the original concern, that being ranger's longbow. From the "OP" mentioning rapid fire. Not longbows in general.

    Now speaking on your issue (a separate, but relate-able issue). As you are addressing longbows in general... In the sense that their descriptions are also not accurate. To which I would agree. In game descriptions could perhaps be a bit better in describing the possible ranges.
    Maybe Longbow's are meant to outperform... I couldn't tell you. However, the part that list: "can actually hit targets outside of the maximum range", Is still recognized...
    Speaking in regards to the range, given that they last worked on Longbow in 2015 and it's now 2018. I would be just a little bit surprised if they didn't realize how far it could hit by now...

    The "Arc" giving how it is structured in the sentence... to me, implies that this is because of the Arc.
    Rather than mentioning the "Arc" under it's own bullet point under the notes on the wiki, like so...

    • The projectile flies in a small arc

    They purposefully include it within the same bullet point and apart of the same sentence... like so

    • The projectile flies in a small arc and can actually hit targets outside of the maximum range.

    So one would assume that it's due to the arc because of this.
    Also, again my original post was in regards to the ranger and it's longbow. Not longbow's in general. So in regards to your issues with misleading descriptions involving the max ranges... Yea perhaps they could be better... This wouldn't be the first time or 50th time they updated a in-game description...
    Though, yes by all means if a Dev can answer you... I'm all for that.

    Despite all this, this doesn't confront my issue being the Priority...

    You realize that Wiki is maintained by players not Devs, and their is no source for that statement listed right? So yeah take the Wiki with a grain of salt, And again so far in all my searching I can’t find a single statement from Anet stating it’s intended and people always claim it’s only on elevation advantage for the increased distance but videos show it happens all the time with the same distance at any elevation level. And again they state the intended range on the skill descriptions and in patch notes why have those posted ranges if they are reflective of the actual ranges?

  • Whiteout.1975Whiteout.1975 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2018

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Whiteout.1975 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Whiteout.1975 said:
    Priority... There is such a lack of it.
    If a fast moving Truck is about to hit you. As well as a some kid's high-speed flying Soccer Ball on the street... which would you rather try to avoid?

    Like, I get it, 1500 range is not always quite as advertised. But it's recognized by the one(s) whom made it that way. "The projectile flies in a small arc and can actually hit targets outside of the maximum range." source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Long_Range_Shot To add to that, the last time they touched it was in June of 2015 according to the history of the skills on the wiki. Meaning that the range has stayed 1500 or sometimes, possibly more because of the "arc", throughout that time. However, now it's a concern here in 2018... Make whatever you want out of that...

    That being said, I don't have a problem with ranger having their own niche at something their good at. In comparison to "X" class in what it's good at in terms of WvW. So long as they can both be seen in a way that's near equal, respectively...
    The reason I asked the rhetorical question at the beginning is because I believe there are bigger problems right now around other classes. Not to say that the concern around longbow shouldn't be a concern... It's just that I'm gonna be more concerned with the classes that are actually helping the most. In terms of winning WvW (The actual game mode). Initially being Scourges and Firebrands...

    It’s not sometimes it’s all the time for one and it’s an issue when you have 2 classes both listed as max range of X distance but one clearly outperforms the other in respect to it and it’s not just Ranger, the other Longbows at 1200 Range also outperform the 1500 Range Weapon in terms of distance (common sense tells us 1500 is greater than 1200), and there is zero source that it’s due to Arc so far, and with that there is a Dev post stating all Melee and Ranged skills are supposed to have a Range Buffer which is clearly lacking from a lot of Skills.

    And one last time why have something state is Max Range when it is clear as day a lot further than that Max Range? Like I said previously I would like a Dev from the Balance team or a Credible Dev like Ben P to answer if it’s intended or not and if so why the misleading Ranges?

    Yes Ik... I was referring to "sometimes" being if you are past 1500 range then it can go past the given 1500 range...
    Ok, so I was addressing the original concern, that being ranger's longbow. From the "OP" mentioning rapid fire. Not longbows in general.

    Now speaking on your issue (a separate, but relate-able issue). As you are addressing longbows in general... In the sense that their descriptions are also not accurate. To which I would agree. In game descriptions could perhaps be a bit better in describing the possible ranges.
    Maybe Longbow's are meant to outperform... I couldn't tell you. However, the part that list: "can actually hit targets outside of the maximum range", Is still recognized...
    Speaking in regards to the range, given that they last worked on Longbow in 2015 and it's now 2018. I would be just a little bit surprised if they didn't realize how far it could hit by now...

    The "Arc" giving how it is structured in the sentence... to me, implies that this is because of the Arc.
    Rather than mentioning the "Arc" under it's own bullet point under the notes on the wiki, like so...

    • The projectile flies in a small arc

    They purposefully include it within the same bullet point and apart of the same sentence... like so

    • The projectile flies in a small arc and can actually hit targets outside of the maximum range.

    So one would assume that it's due to the arc because of this.
    Also, again my original post was in regards to the ranger and it's longbow. Not longbow's in general. So in regards to your issues with misleading descriptions involving the max ranges... Yea perhaps they could be better... This wouldn't be the first time or 50th time they updated a in-game description...
    Though, yes by all means if a Dev can answer you... I'm all for that.

    Despite all this, this doesn't confront my issue being the Priority...

    You realize that Wiki is maintained by players not Devs, and their is no source for that statement listed right? So yeah take the Wiki with a grain of salt, And again so far in all my searching I can’t find a single statement from Anet stating it’s intended and people always claim it’s only on elevation advantage for the increased distance but videos show it happens all the time with the same distance at any elevation level. And again they state the intended range on the skill descriptions and in patch notes why have those posted ranges if they are reflective of the actual ranges?

    lol yes, player"s" not playe"r". I don't believe players are looking to intentionally sabotage the wiki lol. Anyways, that does not mean we should not use for guidance. So, again... based on the structuring of what was written and how it was written on the wiki gave me the assumption that it's due to the arc. I'm just saying again, as well lol... it's been 3 years... if they haven't realized how the longbow they designed by simply auto attacking, isn't attacking the max range intended... then that's just really sad lol.

    As far as description goes... I mean I don't know man... I don't work at Anet... I couldn't tell you their whole ideology behind that. It's like I said before though... I agree with you in the sense that perhaps they could be better.

    I would like to go back to my whole Priority issue... if possible. I kinda feel like I got dragged into a separate issue here lol

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    They know it works this way...

  • Mokk.2397Mokk.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    Seems to me that when people complain . it's because they got their back sides handed to them by something unexpected.
    The ranger class is suppose to be highly proficient for long range attack.The whole argument has been put to rest years ago because its working as it should.
    But if we're going to talk about all things being equal then longbow for rangers isn't the only thing that needs changing.How about we start with a necros second "health" bar. Maybe the eles 4 weapon sets. The wider damage area for meteor shower .A thieves infinite armor while in stealth (can't see it cant hit it ). Maybe the ridiculous travel speed of mesmer blinks and portals. A Dragon hunters 1200 pull .How about the extra distance of the trebuchet when set at higher elevations. What the heck lets just have one class and one weapon so everyone can be exactly the same so no ones feelings gets hurt.
    Maybe a little sarcasm will point out how ridiculous your arguments are .

  • snake.6051snake.6051 Member ✭✭

    The max hit range is about 2000 distance but the autotargeting stops at 1500 so you will get hit if you stay still or run in a straight line.As a ranger if you use action camera you can aim youre arrows to actually hit targets at verry long range but it requires high skill cos you need to aim and lead youre targets just like fireing a sniper rifle in a fps only a little harder.Things like these actually make the game more cool and add needed depth.

  • CantoGuy.6459CantoGuy.6459 Member ✭✭
    edited April 27, 2018

    @snake.6051 said:
    The max hit range is about 2000 distance but the autotargeting stops at 1500 so you will get hit if you stay still or run in a straight line.As a ranger if you use action camera you can aim youre arrows to actually hit targets at verry long range but it requires high skill cos you need to aim and lead youre targets just like fireing a sniper rifle in a fps only a little harder.Things like these actually make the game more cool and add needed depth.

    Action camera? If the guy in this video who is firing a longbow auto from over 2000 range is using action camera then they wouldn't be able to move their mouse cursor...which they clearly do in the video

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just sounds like players are scared to lose the advantage of a big since as of yet no one can provide a statement from Anet saying that the overperforming Range is intended, must feel sad to have to rely on a bug sod badly. Again in what world is 1200 range greater than 1500 or that 1500 Range doesn’t equal 1500 Range(common snes and basic maths states otherwise)?

    If it’s intended behavior why is it so hard for a relevant Dev to go into one of the multiple posts that date back 8 months ago and state that the behavior is intended? That’s I’m looking for is clarification if it’s intended or not, and to those stating that it has been in game so long or that the Wiki makes a note on it (the Wiki will provide as much information on how it functions, again it doesn’t state that it’s intended) that it proves it’s intended doesn’t really hold up since they have recently been bug fixing interactions that have been around since launch that had notes on the Wiki and clearly weren’t intended.

  • Arcaedus.7290Arcaedus.7290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kovu.7560 said:
    This thread is crammed full of bitter hyperbole fueled by a video of someone firing a ranged weapon with massive height advantage.

    ~ Kovu

    Edit- Seriously. Reading back nobody even acknowledged the height difference in that video. And lol @ ranger burst outdoing a deadeye. Yeah. Right.

    No, not a massive height advantage. Literally the first clip in that video is performed using a very modest height advantage and based on my tests, the player would have obtained the same results if level ground was possible. I performed the exact same test with a 1200 range longbow on completely flat ground obtained the same result: a 37.5% range buffer (which puts 1500 range longbow at just over 2000 range).

    The fact that you're trying to deny such undeniable evidence shows you're no less biased than these bitter people. The ranged buffer should be decreased, period. 37.5% range buffer is too much.

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    It isn’t a bug, it’s been bugged and the response was essentially the same as what you have seen above regarding the different types of attacks.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kovu.7560 said:
    This thread is crammed full of bitter hyperbole fueled by a video of someone firing a ranged weapon with massive height advantage.

    ~ Kovu

    Edit- Seriously. Reading back nobody even acknowledged the height difference in that video. And lol @ ranger burst outdoing a deadeye. Yeah. Right.

    1800 range isn't hyperbole, it's truth.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:
    This thread is crammed full of bitter hyperbole fueled by a video of someone firing a ranged weapon with massive height advantage.

    ~ Kovu

    Edit- Seriously. Reading back nobody even acknowledged the height difference in that video. And lol @ ranger burst outdoing a deadeye. Yeah. Right.

    1800 range isn't hyperbole, it's truth.

    Hammer rev 1200 range can hit cannons on top of SMC while some other weapons and skills with same range cant...

    ._. it all conected.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2018

    @Dralor.3701 said:
    It isn’t a bug, it’s been bugged and the response was essentially the same as what you have seen above regarding the different types of attacks.

    Pray tell show this statement, if something says it’s max range is 1200 or 1500 and is overperforming that max range then it looks like it’s a bug because why else put emphasis on those max ranges in patch notes skill descriptions etc, you keep making these claims without backing them up with the actual statements from Anet, pretty simple concept.

    If it’s intended behavior how hard is for one of the relevant Devs to pop into any one of the multitude of threads that have popped up on this issue over the last 8 months and make that statement?

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    Dudes are probably busy, don’t read the forums (or at least this section), don’t care, maybe all of the above.

    This really belongs on the class forum.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2018

    @Dralor.3701 said:
    Dudes are probably busy, don’t read the forums (or at least this section), don’t care, maybe all of the above.

    This really belongs on the class forum.

    This has been brought up across 5 different sub forums over the course of 8 months even in the Forum that Devs are supposed to monitor aka the Bug Forum, just saying, and still no actual statement from Anet anywhere if it’s intended that 1200 doesn’t equal 1200 or 1500 doesn’t equal 1500.

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    No offense to the people there as I know it’s a fine line of balancing time and being careful what you say in writing but...

    Have they ever been good at responding to questions on the forums?

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dralor.3701 said:
    No offense to the people there as I know it’s a fine line of balancing time and being careful what you say in writing but...

    Have they ever been good at responding to questions on the forums?

    When they have time they seem to. But as long as people keep replying to this thread then it will stay near the top of the forum with a higher chance of a browsing Dev to see it.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

This discussion has been closed.
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