[SUGGESTION] Please remove automatic listing items on TP. — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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[SUGGESTION] Please remove automatic listing items on TP.

banshee.9328banshee.9328 Member ✭✭
edited April 23, 2018 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Here's the situation.

From time to time, when I try to sell some quantity of an item I get such popup:

It happens when just before the moment i click sell, someone else just sold his/her items for that price.
It's obvious I can't sell the items if there is no buyer but this is strange behavior which shouldn't have place as I intentionally don't LIST ITEMS but SELL for buy price. I really expected the rest of items (unsold) stayed in my inventory. In my opinion current system is quite unfair. I want to sell in NOW, I'm not going to wait for cash and I don't want to risk never selling it because of sometimes very quickly lowering price on TP. I already had situations where these items had no chance to being sold since price dropped very quickly.

I'd recommend changing the behaviour of selling system to not listing the rest (unsold items for wanted price) but leaving it in inventory.

Comments

  • mercury ranique.2170mercury ranique.2170 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It is a tradepost. You sell or buy. There is a service offered by players where they buy what you sell. But this service is limited to what they want to buy from people. This service comes with a price. You gain less gold. If you loose the auction cause you where too slow, you have an additional service that you auction it for the same price. The alternative is that the whole auction is off,

  • Neural.1824Neural.1824 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    You'll be paying the 5% tax twice

    Now you are starting to understand. :)

    Soul-binding needs to be allowed to die gracefully. It has expired. It is long past it's time to become a footnote in the history of gaming.

  • The best part:

    Partial Success
    0 of your items have been sold ..

  • Laila Lightness.8742Laila Lightness.8742 Member ✭✭✭✭

    And another thing stop the anoying 1copper undercutting its anoying

  • Mea.5491Mea.5491 Member ✭✭✭✭

    +1, I hate this. As Ayakaru said, I have to take the items down and sell them again. Well I don't HAVE TO, but I do because I'm an instaseller... I'm too impatient to list my items and wait for them to sell. :P So if I can't instasell, just put the items back to my invo, please and thanks.

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @banshee.9328 said:
    Here's the situation.

    From time to time, when I try to sell some quantity of an item I get such popup:

    It happens when just before the moment i click sell, someone else just sold his/her items for that price.
    It's obvious I can't sell the items if there is no buyer but this is strange behavior which shouldn't have place as I intentionally don't LIST ITEMS but SELL for buy price. I really expected the rest of items (unsold) stayed in my inventory. In my opinion current system is quite unfair. I want to sell in NOW, I'm not going to wait for cash and I don't want to risk never selling it because of sometimes very quickly lowering price on TP. I already had situations where these items had no chance to being sold since price dropped very quickly.

    I'd recommend changing the behaviour of selling system to not listing the rest (unsold items for wanted price) but leaving it in inventory.

    One thing you don't realize is that when this happens your item is usually bought within less than 24 hours, if not within the next hour or 2. I've had this happen in the past and because of the way it works, when it gets posted at the auto-price, which is normally just the next amount down from what's already listed someone always buys the item(s) right away, so in essence you're actually making more gold when that happens.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • banshee.9328banshee.9328 Member ✭✭
    edited April 24, 2018

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    The TP is doing exactly what you expect: it's canceling an insta-sell because there aren't enough buy offers. If you really want to maximize the efficiency of impatience, manually lower your price by a few copper. Then you'll sell to those buy offers, too (although, of course you'll end up with somewhat less coin).

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    And another thing stop the anoying 1copper undercutting its anoying

    Why? The only way you can get undercut is if you're offering more than most buyers are willing to pay. Ask for less in the first place or heck, sell instantly, and Presto, no undercutting.

    It's not cancelling anything but putting my unsold items on TP. This is the problem. Just look at screen, TP listed my 2 Vicious Fangs for 20s20c although I tried to instasell them.
    Another thing is please tell me how are you going to sell any item for the price lower than best buy offer. You can't just sell item for 10 silver if someone wants to buy it for 20 silver. That's the problem. Another thing is I can't sell more than wants person/people offering best price. That's why very ofter when you want to sell stack of something and there are offers of buying 5,10,5,8,2,7 quantity you have to repeat that n-times (for example as you see on the screen selling 250 vicious fangs with 1 operation would be impossible).

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @banshee.9328 said:
    Here's the situation.

    From time to time, when I try to sell some quantity of an item I get such popup:

    It happens when just before the moment i click sell, someone else just sold his/her items for that price.
    It's obvious I can't sell the items if there is no buyer but this is strange behavior which shouldn't have place as I intentionally don't LIST ITEMS but SELL for buy price. I really expected the rest of items (unsold) stayed in my inventory. In my opinion current system is quite unfair. I want to sell in NOW, I'm not going to wait for cash and I don't want to risk never selling it because of sometimes very quickly lowering price on TP. I already had situations where these items had no chance to being sold since price dropped very quickly.

    I'd recommend changing the behaviour of selling system to not listing the rest (unsold items for wanted price) but leaving it in inventory.

    One thing you don't realize is that when this happens your item is usually bought within less than 24 hours, if not within the next hour or 2. I've had this happen in the past and because of the way it works, when it gets posted at the auto-price, which is normally just the next amount down from what's already listed someone always buys the item(s) right away, so in essence you're actually making more gold when that happens.

    No, try to sell an items which loses value very, very quikly because of some updates. You end up with such situation and if you want to repeat this, every iteration makes you lose 5% gold. Good luck.

  • @banshee.9328 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    The TP is doing exactly what you expect: it's canceling an insta-sell because there aren't enough buy offers. If you really want to maximize the efficiency of impatience, manually lower your price by a few copper. Then you'll sell to those buy offers, too (although, of course you'll end up with somewhat less coin).

    It's not cancelling anything but putting my unsold items on TP. This is the problem. Just look at screen, TP listed my 2 Vicious Fangs for 20s20c although I tried to instasell them.
    Another thing is please tell me how are you going to sell any item for the price lower than best buy offer. You can't just sell item for 10 silver if someone wants to buy it for 20 silver. That's the problem. Another thing is I can't sell more than wants person/people offering best price. THat's why very ofter when you want to sell stack of something and there are offers of buying 5,10,5,8,2,7 quantity you have to repeat that n-times.

    I just tested this because it's been a long time. And you're right, these days, you can no longer sell in bulk for under the minimum offer (it used to be possible, but that's moot).

    And it would be fair if ANet changed selling to work the same as buying: you can choose to buy a stack at a variety of prices, so why not allow people to sell to the existing buy offers? However, it's not as easy as it sounds, because the existing offers keep changing (as other people buy & sell). So while you can insta-buy as much as is offered, we can't insta-sell, because there's no guarantee that there will be more on offer.

    Consequently, even if ANet agreed with you today, it's going to be 6-12 months before we see anything like this in game.


    Instead, put your offer at one copper above the minimum offer. It won't be instant, but it will be nearly instant for anything that you can sell in bulk. It will almost never make make a meaningful difference in the time your offer lasts.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You're missing the point where you SELL INSTANTLY for THIS PRICE

    I rather choose death.

  • Ameepa.6793Ameepa.6793 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2018

    @banshee.9328 said:
    I'd recommend changing the behaviour of selling system to not listing the rest (unsold items for wanted price) but leaving it in inventory.

    Yep I agree, it should be changed to work like you suggested.

    Current system just causes inconvenience not only to the seller but also to the buyers who try to put in buy orders. Like using the OPs example pic, now the orderers cannot overbid the 20,19s order because they cannot put orders at 20,20s (or higher) for more than 2 items before the 2 are sold away. They won't be around for long but still annoying :P

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @banshee.9328 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    The TP is doing exactly what you expect: it's canceling an insta-sell because there aren't enough buy offers. If you really want to maximize the efficiency of impatience, manually lower your price by a few copper. Then you'll sell to those buy offers, too (although, of course you'll end up with somewhat less coin).

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    And another thing stop the anoying 1copper undercutting its anoying

    Why? The only way you can get undercut is if you're offering more than most buyers are willing to pay. Ask for less in the first place or heck, sell instantly, and Presto, no undercutting.

    It's not cancelling anything but putting my unsold items on TP. This is the problem. Just look at screen, TP listed my 2 Vicious Fangs for 20s20c although I tried to instasell them.
    Another thing is please tell me how are you going to sell any item for the price lower than best buy offer. You can't just sell item for 10 silver if someone wants to buy it for 20 silver. That's the problem. Another thing is I can't sell more than wants person/people offering best price. That's why very ofter when you want to sell stack of something and there are offers of buying 5,10,5,8,2,7 quantity you have to repeat that n-times (for example as you see on the screen selling 250 vicious fangs with 1 operation would be impossible).

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @banshee.9328 said:
    Here's the situation.

    From time to time, when I try to sell some quantity of an item I get such popup:

    It happens when just before the moment i click sell, someone else just sold his/her items for that price.
    It's obvious I can't sell the items if there is no buyer but this is strange behavior which shouldn't have place as I intentionally don't LIST ITEMS but SELL for buy price. I really expected the rest of items (unsold) stayed in my inventory. In my opinion current system is quite unfair. I want to sell in NOW, I'm not going to wait for cash and I don't want to risk never selling it because of sometimes very quickly lowering price on TP. I already had situations where these items had no chance to being sold since price dropped very quickly.

    I'd recommend changing the behaviour of selling system to not listing the rest (unsold items for wanted price) but leaving it in inventory.

    One thing you don't realize is that when this happens your item is usually bought within less than 24 hours, if not within the next hour or 2. I've had this happen in the past and because of the way it works, when it gets posted at the auto-price, which is normally just the next amount down from what's already listed someone always buys the item(s) right away, so in essence you're actually making more gold when that happens.

    No, try to sell an items which loses value very, very quikly because of some updates. You end up with such situation and if you want to repeat this, every iteration makes you lose 5% gold. Good luck.

    I don't think you misunderstood my point, that person that wanted to buy Vicious Fangs at 20S 19C is most likely going to buy your Vicious Fangs that just got posted at 20S 20C the minute they log into the game if they already aren't on, it's almost the same thing as instance sell, that is what happens every single time this happens to me so there is no need to delete the sell order and do instant sell again. That way you aren't paying the tax more than once, it's only on each transaction, unless you mean unlike selling the entire stack at once and only having to pay the tax one time...then yes, you are paying the tax more than once but is the tax really going to make that much difference on such a low priced item?

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • banshee.9328banshee.9328 Member ✭✭
    edited April 24, 2018

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @banshee.9328 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    The TP is doing exactly what you expect: it's canceling an insta-sell because there aren't enough buy offers. If you really want to maximize the efficiency of impatience, manually lower your price by a few copper. Then you'll sell to those buy offers, too (although, of course you'll end up with somewhat less coin).

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    And another thing stop the anoying 1copper undercutting its anoying

    Why? The only way you can get undercut is if you're offering more than most buyers are willing to pay. Ask for less in the first place or heck, sell instantly, and Presto, no undercutting.

    It's not cancelling anything but putting my unsold items on TP. This is the problem. Just look at screen, TP listed my 2 Vicious Fangs for 20s20c although I tried to instasell them.
    Another thing is please tell me how are you going to sell any item for the price lower than best buy offer. You can't just sell item for 10 silver if someone wants to buy it for 20 silver. That's the problem. Another thing is I can't sell more than wants person/people offering best price. That's why very ofter when you want to sell stack of something and there are offers of buying 5,10,5,8,2,7 quantity you have to repeat that n-times (for example as you see on the screen selling 250 vicious fangs with 1 operation would be impossible).

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @banshee.9328 said:
    Here's the situation.

    From time to time, when I try to sell some quantity of an item I get such popup:

    It happens when just before the moment i click sell, someone else just sold his/her items for that price.
    It's obvious I can't sell the items if there is no buyer but this is strange behavior which shouldn't have place as I intentionally don't LIST ITEMS but SELL for buy price. I really expected the rest of items (unsold) stayed in my inventory. In my opinion current system is quite unfair. I want to sell in NOW, I'm not going to wait for cash and I don't want to risk never selling it because of sometimes very quickly lowering price on TP. I already had situations where these items had no chance to being sold since price dropped very quickly.

    I'd recommend changing the behaviour of selling system to not listing the rest (unsold items for wanted price) but leaving it in inventory.

    One thing you don't realize is that when this happens your item is usually bought within less than 24 hours, if not within the next hour or 2. I've had this happen in the past and because of the way it works, when it gets posted at the auto-price, which is normally just the next amount down from what's already listed someone always buys the item(s) right away, so in essence you're actually making more gold when that happens.

    No, try to sell an items which loses value very, very quikly because of some updates. You end up with such situation and if you want to repeat this, every iteration makes you lose 5% gold. Good luck.

    I don't think you misunderstood my point, that person that wanted to buy Vicious Fangs at 20S 19C is most likely going to buy your Vicious Fangs that just got posted at 20S 20C the minute they log into the game if they already aren't on, it's almost the same thing as instance sell, that is what happens every single time this happens to me so there is no need to delete the sell order and do instant sell again. That way you aren't paying the tax more than once, it's only on each transaction, unless you mean unlike selling the entire stack at once and only having to pay the tax one time...then yes, you are paying the tax more than once but is the tax really going to make that much difference on such a low priced item?

    This is just an example. I made a screenshot of random transaction. Problems just start here. There are materials which have really good value and then, for example, ANet gives an opportunity to get them at no-price, an easy farm or easy reward. An obvious effect is price drops almost immidiately. You have to react quickly not to lost money as materials become worthless. What you just do is WP to bank and sell all you have immidiately. And then happens what is mention in the topic.

  • @Blocki.4931 said:
    You're missing the point where you SELL INSTANTLY for THIS PRICE

    You're missing the fact that there aren't enough buyers to sell instantly for that price. There might have been, but for most items that you can sell in bulk, that amount available at any given price varies.

    Again, if ANet agreed with you today, it won't change soon. So while you're waiting, ask for 1c higher.
    Even when prices are falling quickly, they also go up a bit before they drop further down.

    You have to react quickly not to lost money as materials become worthless.

    We don't have to react quickly because materials do not become worthless. You're spending so much energy on trying to sell everything now that you're missing the bigger picture: prices fluctuate substantially.


    I don't fault you for valuing 1g in your wallet more than a 99% chance of having 1.25g in your wallet later today; that's a personal preference. (Economists refer to that as "risk aversion" and there's nothing wrong with it; it helps drive the markets.) However, please don't let that prevent you from using a temporary work--around of settling for 1.001g in 5-30 minutes, instead of 1g instantaneously.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • banshee.9328banshee.9328 Member ✭✭
    edited April 24, 2018

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    We don't have to react quickly because materials do not become worthless. You're spending so much energy on trying to sell everything now that you're missing the bigger picture: prices fluctuate substantially.

    Quickly? What do you mean quickly? The time after price of some materials will come back to the price you list might be years. They may even never comeback to desired price. Try to Seaweed for the price when there was no Ember Bay. Try to sell Resonating Slivers for the price before they recalibrated it's usage for scribes. No way Jose.
    Apart from that, you missed the point when ppl buy bulks of materials since new item appears. Let's look at Memories of Battle. The item had average price of some silvers. Then ANet released T2 and T3 armors for WvW. Prices of that materials went up almost to 1g. And then was the moment to sell them. Massively. Try now to sell them at that price. Of course you can say that ANet may release T4 armors SOMEDAY. Maybe or maybe not.

    As for fluctuating prices ANet had and stil has trends to regulate prices. Hoarding materials, rare items become very very risky. Try to sell TP weapons for the price they were before they appeared in Black Lion Chests. Begin with Sclerites. Good luck .

    Now DIY part: Go and buy Permafrost dye now. It costs like 450g. Sell it after 6th birthday. (this is of course hypothesis but I'm sure you know what I'm reffering to)

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Again, if ANet agreed with you today, it won't change soon.

    That's why this is pure suggestion. This is where we start and wait.

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If you instant sell you just make the traders happy. You are basically throwing gold out of the window. Never selling items is very rarely a problem, most stuff gets sold over night already.

  • I really have to necro this thread. OP clearly does not understand how markets work. This is expected behavior of limit orders on exchanges. ArenaNet did a perfect job of replicating this. What you want is a market order. This is another feature on exchanges which is usually useless as you can simulate the behavior simply by putting the sell price of your limit order low enough with the protection that your order does not plunge into a liquidity hole and sells for like 50% of what you intended. So what OP should've done in this particular incident is not only checking the top buy order in the order book but way deeper.

  • @aka bashOr.4136 said:
    I really have to necro this thread. OP clearly does not understand how markets work. This is expected behavior of limit orders on exchanges. ArenaNet did a perfect job of replicating this. What you want is a market order. This is another feature on exchanges which is usually useless as you can simulate the behavior simply by putting the sell price of your limit order low enough with the protection that your order does not plunge into a liquidity hole and sells for like 50% of what you intended. So what OP should've done in this particular incident is not only checking the top buy order in the order book but way deeper.

    You didnt understand intension of this post. The proper effect should be popup with "ups sorry this buy offer is no longer available" and transaction cancelled. Just the same as you get when you want to buy just sold item. But what we get now is freezing your items/money for unknown time.
    All I need is the same behavior as while buying.

  • All I can say is: Thank you insta-sellers!
    Anet, make their lives easier.

  • Bassdeff.1895Bassdeff.1895 Member ✭✭✭

    I get the flip side of this when I'm placing buy orders. I want to buy a couple of stack of something at 66c but there is already a sell order for 15 at 66c. I then have to put an order for 15 at 66 copper before I can place my order for a couple stacks when all I should really have to do is place my buy order. If there are 15 available at that price they should automatically just get bought without having to make a separate transaction. It would be a great QoL thing for those of us that play the market.

  • Kunzaito.8169Kunzaito.8169 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2020

    @banshee.9328 said:
    You didnt understand intension of this post. The proper effect should be popup with "ups sorry this buy offer is no longer available" and transaction cancelled. Just the same as you get when you want to buy just sold item. But what we get now is freezing your items/money for unknown time.
    All I need is the same behavior as while buying.

    The problem is that the TP can't work this way. It's been mentioned in other threads but not this one that "instant" selling really isn't that - the game creates a listing first, at the "buy order" price, that then is filled (almost) immediately. The coded procedure is always "create listing > check for buy order > fill if there." So it can't return your item because the "create a listing" part of the procedure didn't fail; your item was properly listed at the price you chose, it's just that there was no longer an order at that price to fill, so it stays listed. To the game there is no difference between that and someone listing an item at any other price that doesn't have a buy order to match to complete the transaction, and you have already paid the listing fee so returning the item would be a loss to you. By contrast, since there is no fee for placing a buy order, the money can be returned to the player without impact. The system was set up this way presumably as part of its safeguards against various errors, exploits, and dupe methods.

  • @Kunzaito.8169 said:

    @banshee.9328 said:
    You didnt understand intension of this post. The proper effect should be popup with "ups sorry this buy offer is no longer available" and transaction cancelled. Just the same as you get when you want to buy just sold item. But what we get now is freezing your items/money for unknown time.
    All I need is the same behavior as while buying.

    The problem is that the TP can't work this way. It's been mentioned in other threads but not this one that "instant" selling really isn't that - the game creates a listing first, at the "buy order" price, that then is filled (almost) immediately. The coded procedure is always "create listing > check for buy order > fill if there." So it can't return your item because the "create a listing" part of the procedure didn't fail; your item was properly listed at the price you chose, it's just that there was no longer an order at that price to fill, so it stays listed. To the game there is no difference between that and someone listing an item at any other price that doesn't have a buy order to match to complete the transaction, and you have already paid the listing fee so returning the item would be a loss to you. By contrast, since there is no fee for placing a buy order, the money can be returned to the player without impact. The system was set up this way presumably as part of its safeguards against various exploit and dupe methods.

    That's bullcrap. If the game can realize there's no longer a trade list that can match yours, then it can perfectly remove yours

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ah, the wonders of race conditions in multi-tasking systems. I learned about these in my early 80s computer classes. They were a problem then, and they are still today.

    This likely cannot be fixed given the way the TP (Trading Post) works. They would have to stop the current order, reset a new order with the partial quantity, and then sell again. But, the same thing could happen again to the now-smaller new sell order.

    The only way to fix it properly would be to put a lock on the current buy offer until your transaction completes. But, what if your offer isn't the first? They would have to implement a lock/unlock process, and that's REALLY hard to do in an EXISTING multi-tasking database (which the TP is).

  • Solvar.7953Solvar.7953 Member ✭✭✭

    One thought might be letting the user cancel a sell order with X time of listing (5 minutes?) and get a full refund? Because to me, that is the real problem - I do an instant sell, it doesn't sell (or partially sells). At this point, I either want to sell again and the new lower price (probably 1c less) because I want it immediately, or I want to list 1c below the current lowest sell price. I don't want to be listed at 1c above the current highest buy price.
    But right now, if you cancel a listing, you lose the listing fee, so it is not worth doing.

  • Mewcifer.5198Mewcifer.5198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This topic reminded me of another problem that can happen with the TP
    https://gyazo.com/97397c2a26ddd3dce5ae8d293970c6b4

    No matter how many I sold there was always exactly 1 buy order for 4s 42c

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