[Suggestion] A plausible solution for Scourge.

1. Wrap Sand Savant into the Shades baseline. (except the target limits)
2. Reduce the radius of Shades in PvP/WvW by 120. (I hope radius changes are within the splitting parameters)
3. Make a new GM trait for Scourge. Preferably something that synergizes with Desert Empowerment and Abrasive Grit.

There you go, a solution that doesn't nerf scourge in PvE but reigns it in for the competitive modes. For the record, not one of these is good enough on its own, all 3 are needed.Voice your opinion, and gimme that feedback.

As i wrote in another post similar to this oneThis is just how I would personally like it envisioned although im sure others have their own opinions

Get rid of the ranged shade placement entirely increase the base radius of the f2-f5 around the necro to the bigger range by defaultThe only way people will ever find scourge balanced works is if you completely get rid of the f1 because its the most annoying thing that people dislike about it in wvw.

Necros can just dump out shades all over without putting themselves in any real risk which can make pushing another group dificult unlike with the other two specs.Give them more support via barrier

So by doing this you do 2 things. You make it so that the necro has to walk into melee range to actually fire off its shade skills offensively.2 the remain skills get an increase in potency (f2 through f5) to compensate for having to walk into melee range with them.

• Remove the delay from the defesive skills such as barrier application
• Increase potency of conditions and barrier on the shade skills your skills now always hit at least 5 targets + your self
• Undo the nerf to Path of Corruption as it will now require you to take more risk to land that with scourge
• Undo some of the duration nerf by reworking how shades are placed into the world.
• Each scourge can now only place 1 shade and its only done by activating desert shroud. The shade will be placed at the activation point of desert shroud and cannot be moved. The shade will mimic all shade skills activated during its duration. The effects from the shade and the caster can now hit same target twice but conditions applied by the shades have their durations is reduced by 50%

Nefarious Favor : Becomes shroud skill 3Conditions to boons converted from 1 to 2Life force cost goes from 1,935 to roughly 1,200Sand Cascade : Becomes shroud skill 4 works with getting poeple up form downed if you are a blood scourge with transfusionBarrier from 2,428 to roughly 5,000Garish Pillar : Becomes shroud skill 2 works with path of corruptionFear from 1 second to 2.5 secondsApplies crippleGain a small barrier for each foe hit Barrier gain roughly 500Desert Shroud: Becomes shroud skill 1 (pulses burning on every pulse if you have dhumm fire equiped)Torment stacks go from 1 to 2 for 5 seconds per pulseBarrier gained 5,016 to roughly 8,000When you start desert shroud drop a sand shade at your current location that remains for 15 seconds (functions as the current one does just a different method of placing it)

• Blood as sand becomes a base 5% damage reduction at any time but a 15% damage reduction while under barrier
• Sand Sage attribute bonus becomes a base 75+ but a 150+ bonus while under barrier.
• Sand Savant becomes something new dealing with barrier like...Barrier you grant is reduced by 20%Reduced recharge on skills that now grant barrier by 10% (regardless of their type Stacks with other cd reduction traits).Barrier you apply now last 100% longer (it now takes 10 seconds to fall off), additionally when you (the necromancer only) apply barrier to yourself on top of an old barrier value will the decay timer on the old barrier value will reset. (In combat only)

This opens up the option to actually take the other grand master traits without locking you into sand savantGives you a bigger base shade around youTakes away your power to drop shades at rangedImproved barrier thats unique and can be helpful to all allies making scourge even more relevant

Ideally until they do away with the summon sand shade no one will ever see scourge as balanced in WvW it will always be the most used and most hated profession of WvW.In addition the grand masters will always be screwed so long as Sand Savant increases shade skill area size.

It's nice you bring the WvW viewpoint into this as my experience with that is slim to none. My PoV is mostly from a PvP standpoint where the biggest issue by far is that Scourge shades will cover an entire capture point, and more, indefinitely and they can just keep refreshing that massive shade so that anyone going into the point gets deleted eventually. That issue can only be fixed by reducing the size of the shade.

One thing I don't understand is why are you shuffling the skills around? It just seems like an unnecessary hassle. Just make skill 1 drop the shade in your location, and that's all the changes needed on that department. Honestly I also don't believe that the number of shades is really relevant, as long as their AoE area is cut down. I get that redesigning specs is fun but are all of those really realistic changes in your opinion? When there are easier and equally effective ways of doing it.

@"Yannir.4132" said:It's nice you bring the WvW viewpoint into this as my experience with that is slim to none. My PoV is mostly from a PvP standpoint where the biggest issue by far is that Scourge shades will cover an entire capture point, and more, indefinitely and they can just keep refreshing that massive shade so that anyone going into the point gets deleted eventually. That issue can only be fixed by reducing the size of the shade.

Even if you change the size its still going to take a very large portion of the point. To shrink them to their current base size would make them too weak for the way they currently work.

this is why everyone is forced into that 1 grand master trait in any competitive game mode. The base sizes are far to ineffective.

Like i said the issue is with scourge is the power to place shades ideally just down right getting rid of the summon sand shade would fix both problems. Wvw and PvPBut in exchange you would be dealing with a more deadly, and tanker scourge as the rest of the skills would need to be boosted for only have the power to hit them in near melee range.

One thing I don't understand is why are you shuffling the skills around? It just seems like an unnecessary hassle. Just make skill 1 drop the shade in your location, and that's all the changes needed on that department. Honestly I also don't believe that the number of shades is really relevant, as long as their AoE area is cut down. I get that redesigning specs is fun but are all of those really realistic changes in your opinion? When there are easier and equally effective ways of doing it.

Well for 1 thing your suggestion here wont fix your first complaint in your first statement.walks onto the point and drops a shade then walks off now you still have to deal with it.

Ideally getting rid of shade placements in general will do you better by requiring the scourge to be in the space it wants to control. By doing this if you dont want the aoe's on the point you simply knock back the scourge from the point.

Number of shades is relevant as you point out in your first statement.

"Scourge shades will cover an entire capture point, and more, indefinitely and they can just keep refreshing that massive shade"Meaning that number is relevent in the number of times they cant refresh rather than number placed around. With my suggestion you are limited to 1 shade per Desert Shroud use cd and maybe the shade duration can be even less than what it is now. But maybe even scrap that idea too.The reason i shuffled skills around is because if you remove skill 1 then obviously skill 2 cant be skill 2 anymore.

Honestly I would be fine with making shades player-centered PBAoE, BUUUUUUT, there would have to be some kind of tradeoff with better defense/mobility. If I'm walking into melee with a warrior that can already facetank my damage, don't pretend they can't, I have to have half a chance to survive it. As it stands with our guild group not running a bazillion Scourges I have found I get better results running hammer rev, or staff weaver.

Honestly there are a lot of things which could be done with small changes, but they're all... eh.

Ideally, Scourge would get a bigger rework to make it a proper support setup. Ventari Rev or Druid style. A shielding healer, not unlike a Disc Priest in WoW. It's not like there isn't already ample space to make balanced DPS specs by reworking base Necro or even Reaper (good one, I know :tongue: ).