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Can we do something about 25/30 top players being mesmers


BeLZedaR.4790

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I honestly don’t see the point in trying anymore, can’t care less about rank anymore.And then the “hotfix” is a nerf to 1 skill that is a part of 1 build and is still strong.

Ik probably everyone is fed up with mesmer threads but honestly I’m not gonna touch this game again untill this is addressed, and properly.

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@geist.9173 said:I don't see your problem. It's not the first 25 of the league, it's every game with at least 2 mesmer per side. If you give people a class that can faceroll, they will play it.

Funny thing is a lot of the complaints are saying this mesmer build is the worst thing the game has seen, yet, you would think you would see people running 4 scourges mesmers on every team in every game. Not saying it’s fine, it’s an easy low risk high reward build but let us not all kid ourselves that previous balance iterations didn’t have worse aspects.

Monthly balance patches would be the dream come true.

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There is a difference between Mesmer and other overpowered specs from previous metas. Mesmer/Mirage/Chrono is incredibly unenjoyable to play against. That’s it.

I brought four players back for double-xp weekend, and spent a good amount of time trying to explain absurd stuff to them.

  • “Oh yeah, you pretty much can’t rely on CC against a good Mirage. They break stun and can dodge in CC.”
  • “If the Mirage is good, plan on them having access to 8-12 seconds of evade frames in the first 20 seconds of combat. They are also attacking during these evade frames— so you get full pressure in return.”
  • “Oh, that is the Chrono build. It has all defensive traits and traitlines, plays completely defensively, and will put out more pressure than some glass builds. Be careful.”
  • “Yeah, you have to dodge that phantasm skill, and that one. Yes, that one too, it hits really hard, and always watch for the Shatter incoming too. Oh, be aware that Shatterstorm lets them spike again before you can recover.”

The good news is that one of my four friends decided to stay and has gotten on a lot since then. He was the Mesmer main...

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@Julius Seizure.4985 said:There is a difference between Mesmer and other overpowered specs from previous metas. Mesmer/Mirage/Chrono is incredibly unenjoyable to play against. That’s it.

I brought four players back for double-xp weekend, and spent a good amount of time trying to explain absurd stuff to them.

  • “Oh yeah, you pretty much can’t rely on CC against a good Mirage. They break stun and can dodge in CC.”
  • “If the Mirage is good, plan on them having access to 8-12 seconds of evade frames in the first 20 seconds of combat. They are also attacking during these evade frames— so you get full pressure in return.”
  • “Oh, that is the Chrono build. It has all defensive traits and traitlines, plays completely defensively, and will put out more pressure than some glass builds. Be careful.”
  • “Yeah, you have to dodge that phantasm skill, and that one. Yes, that one too, it hits really hard, and always watch for the Shatter incoming too. Oh, be aware that Shatterstorm lets them spike again before you can recover.”

The good news is that one of my four friends decided to stay and has gotten on a lot since then. He was the Mesmer main...

Mirages are super squishy, though. Like, super squishy (which is why they need evades). I guess you have to play them similar to how I play against Holosmith’s in Photonforge. Kite them until they are on CD.

You’re right about Chrono, though. They are currently unkillabe if played right. So is every class, however.

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@CaldaRaric.6305 said:

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:There is a difference between Mesmer and other overpowered specs from previous metas. Mesmer/Mirage/Chrono is incredibly unenjoyable to play against. That’s it.

I brought four players back for double-xp weekend, and spent a good amount of time trying to explain absurd stuff to them.
  • “Oh yeah, you pretty much can’t rely on CC against a good Mirage. They break stun and can dodge in CC.”
  • “If the Mirage is good, plan on them having access to 8-12 seconds of evade frames in the first 20 seconds of combat. They are also attacking during these evade frames— so you get full pressure in return.”
  • “Oh, that is the Chrono build. It has all defensive traits and traitlines, plays completely defensively, and will put out more pressure than some glass builds. Be careful.”
  • “Yeah, you have to dodge that phantasm skill, and that one. Yes, that one too, it hits really hard, and always watch for the Shatter incoming too. Oh, be aware that Shatterstorm lets them spike again before you can recover.”

The good news is that one of my four friends decided to stay and has gotten on a lot since then. He was the Mesmer main...

Mirages are super squishy, though. Like, super squishy (which is why they need evades). I guess you have to play them similar to how I play against Holosmith’s in Photonforge. Kite them until they are on CD.

You’re right about Chrono, though. They are currently unkillabe if played right. So is every class, however.

But no class is THAT unkillable while also putting out THAT much damage.

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@Julius Seizure.4985 said:There is a difference between Mesmer and other overpowered specs from previous metas. Mesmer/Mirage/Chrono is incredibly unenjoyable to play against. That’s it.

I brought four players back for double-xp weekend, and spent a good amount of time trying to explain absurd stuff to them.

  • “Oh yeah, you pretty much can’t rely on CC against a good Mirage. They break stun and can dodge in CC.”
  • “If the Mirage is good, plan on them having access to 8-12 seconds of evade frames in the first 20 seconds of combat. They are also attacking during these evade frames— so you get full pressure in return.”
  • “Oh, that is the Chrono build. It has all defensive traits and traitlines, plays completely defensively, and will put out more pressure than some glass builds. Be careful.”
  • “Yeah, you have to dodge that phantasm skill, and that one. Yes, that one too, it hits really hard, and always watch for the Shatter incoming too. Oh, be aware that Shatterstorm lets them spike again before you can recover.”

The good news is that one of my four friends decided to stay and has gotten on a lot since then. He was the Mesmer main...

I agree, you should have brought them back for PoF release and the months of scourges in their full glory, they would have had an absolute blast!

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Indeed most of the top50 do run mesmer, but if i look at the problem, there's a part of " l2p" in it. Most of these players i faced/teamed with were far holders, and luckily had opponents that insisted on capping their close, even if it needed 1v2 or 1v3. Leading to other points being " easily " held 4v2 or 4v3.

Now the problem is big when you have 6/10 players out of 2 teams being mesmers or scourge, but dealing with 1 only shouldn't be so hard..

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@CaldaRaric.6305 said:

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:There is a difference between Mesmer and other overpowered specs from previous metas. Mesmer/Mirage/Chrono is incredibly unenjoyable to play against. That’s it.

I brought four players back for double-xp weekend, and spent a good amount of time trying to explain absurd stuff to them.
  • “Oh yeah, you pretty much can’t rely on CC against a good Mirage. They break stun and can dodge in CC.”
  • “If the Mirage is good, plan on them having access to 8-12 seconds of evade frames in the first 20 seconds of combat. They are also attacking during these evade frames— so you get full pressure in return.”
  • “Oh, that is the Chrono build. It has all defensive traits and traitlines, plays completely defensively, and will put out more pressure than some glass builds. Be careful.”
  • “Yeah, you have to dodge that phantasm skill, and that one. Yes, that one too, it hits really hard, and always watch for the Shatter incoming too. Oh, be aware that Shatterstorm lets them spike again before you can recover.”

The good news is that one of my four friends decided to stay and has gotten on a lot since then. He was the Mesmer main...

Mirages are super squishy, though. Like, super squishy (which is why they need evades). I guess you have to play them similar to how I play against Holosmith’s in Photonforge. Kite them until they are on CD.

You’re right about Chrono, though. They are currently unkillabe if played right. So is every class, however.

Thieves are more squishy than Mirages, and, at least against theives, you can cc them to force their long cd stunbreaks and they basically have to disengage once they used their Shadowstep/Shadowreturn. Mirages have evades that stunbreaks every 9s because of sigil of energy, have distortion/portal as panic buttons, and chaos variants have stability spams on top that. They are not really squishy when you take all of that into consideration.

It's also more difficult to kite against Mirages when they have Jaunt, Blink, Sword/Staff ambush, Sword 3 when compared to Holosmiths

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@LazySummer.2568 said:

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:There is a difference between Mesmer and other overpowered specs from previous metas. Mesmer/Mirage/Chrono is incredibly unenjoyable to play against. That’s it.

I brought four players back for double-xp weekend, and spent a good amount of time trying to explain absurd stuff to them.
  • “Oh yeah, you pretty much can’t rely on CC against a good Mirage. They break stun and can dodge in CC.”
  • “If the Mirage is good, plan on them having access to 8-12 seconds of evade frames in the first 20 seconds of combat. They are also attacking during these evade frames— so you get full pressure in return.”
  • “Oh, that is the Chrono build. It has all defensive traits and traitlines, plays completely defensively, and will put out more pressure than some glass builds. Be careful.”
  • “Yeah, you have to dodge that phantasm skill, and that one. Yes, that one too, it hits really hard, and always watch for the Shatter incoming too. Oh, be aware that Shatterstorm lets them spike again before you can recover.”

The good news is that one of my four friends decided to stay and has gotten on a lot since then. He was the Mesmer main...

Mirages are super squishy, though. Like, super squishy (which is why they need evades). I guess you have to play them similar to how I play against Holosmith’s in Photonforge. Kite them until they are on CD.

You’re right about Chrono, though. They are currently unkillabe if played right. So is every class, however.

Thieves are more squishy than Mirages, and, at least against theives, you can cc them to force their long cd stunbreaks and they basically have to disengage once they used their Shadowstep/Shadowreturn. Mirages have evades that stunbreaks every 9s because of sigil of energy, have distortion/portal as panic buttons, and chaos variants have stability spams on top that. They are not really squishy when you take all of that into consideration.

It's also more difficult to kite against Mirages when they have Jaunt, Blink, Sword/Staff ambush, Sword 3 when compared to Holosmiths

Thief’s have perma invis to compensate for their squishyness. Mirages have 2 stealth’s(3 with the elite), so they need to be able to evade to compensate for being squishy.

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@CaldaRaric.6305 said:

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:There is a difference between Mesmer and other overpowered specs from previous metas. Mesmer/Mirage/Chrono is incredibly unenjoyable to play against. That’s it.

I brought four players back for double-xp weekend, and spent a good amount of time trying to explain absurd stuff to them.
  • “Oh yeah, you pretty much can’t rely on CC against a good Mirage. They break stun and can dodge in CC.”
  • “If the Mirage is good, plan on them having access to 8-12 seconds of evade frames in the first 20 seconds of combat. They are also attacking during these evade frames— so you get full pressure in return.”
  • “Oh, that is the Chrono build. It has all defensive traits and traitlines, plays completely defensively, and will put out more pressure than some glass builds. Be careful.”
  • “Yeah, you have to dodge that phantasm skill, and that one. Yes, that one too, it hits really hard, and always watch for the Shatter incoming too. Oh, be aware that Shatterstorm lets them spike again before you can recover.”

The good news is that one of my four friends decided to stay and has gotten on a lot since then. He was the Mesmer main...

Mirages are super squishy, though. Like, super squishy (which is why they need evades). I guess you have to play them similar to how I play against Holosmith’s in Photonforge. Kite them until they are on CD.

You’re right about Chrono, though. They are currently unkillabe if played right. So is every class, however.

Thieves are more squishy than Mirages, and, at least against theives, you can cc them to force their long cd stunbreaks and they basically have to disengage once they used their Shadowstep/Shadowreturn. Mirages have evades that stunbreaks every 9s because of sigil of energy, have distortion/portal as panic buttons, and chaos variants have stability spams on top that. They are not really squishy when you take all of that into consideration.

It's also more difficult to kite against Mirages when they have Jaunt, Blink, Sword/Staff ambush, Sword 3 when compared to Holosmiths

Thief’s have perma invis to compensate for their squishyness. Mirages have 2 stealth’s(3 with the elite), so they need to be able to evade to compensate for being squishy.

only deadeyes have perma invis. D/P's have limited invis unless they want to somehow do dmg without ever spending initiative on shadow shot and headshot, and tanky chaos Mirages dont even run invis.

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@LazySummer.2568 said:

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:There is a difference between Mesmer and other overpowered specs from previous metas. Mesmer/Mirage/Chrono is incredibly unenjoyable to play against. That’s it.

I brought four players back for double-xp weekend, and spent a good amount of time trying to explain absurd stuff to them.
  • “Oh yeah, you pretty much can’t rely on CC against a good Mirage. They break stun and can dodge in CC.”
  • “If the Mirage is good, plan on them having access to 8-12 seconds of evade frames in the first 20 seconds of combat. They are also attacking during these evade frames— so you get full pressure in return.”
  • “Oh, that is the Chrono build. It has all defensive traits and traitlines, plays completely defensively, and will put out more pressure than some glass builds. Be careful.”
  • “Yeah, you have to dodge that phantasm skill, and that one. Yes, that one too, it hits really hard, and always watch for the Shatter incoming too. Oh, be aware that Shatterstorm lets them spike again before you can recover.”

The good news is that one of my four friends decided to stay and has gotten on a lot since then. He was the Mesmer main...

Mirages are super squishy, though. Like, super squishy (which is why they need evades). I guess you have to play them similar to how I play against Holosmith’s in Photonforge. Kite them until they are on CD.

You’re right about Chrono, though. They are currently unkillabe if played right. So is every class, however.

Thieves are more squishy than Mirages, and, at least against theives, you can cc them to force their long cd stunbreaks and they basically have to disengage once they used their Shadowstep/Shadowreturn. Mirages have evades that stunbreaks every 9s because of sigil of energy, have distortion/portal as panic buttons, and chaos variants have stability spams on top that. They are not really squishy when you take all of that into consideration.

It's also more difficult to kite against Mirages when they have Jaunt, Blink, Sword/Staff ambush, Sword 3 when compared to Holosmiths

Thief’s have perma invis to compensate for their squishyness. Mirages have 2 stealth’s(3 with the elite), so they need to be able to evade to compensate for being squishy.

only deadeyes have perma invis. D/P's have limited invis unless they want to somehow do dmg without ever spending initiative on shadow shot and headshot, and tanky chaos Mirages dont even run invis.

K, and only Mirages from Mesmer class have high evades. Every class has there “thing”.

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@CaldaRaric.6305 said:

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:There is a difference between Mesmer and other overpowered specs from previous metas. Mesmer/Mirage/Chrono is incredibly unenjoyable to play against. That’s it.

I brought four players back for double-xp weekend, and spent a good amount of time trying to explain absurd stuff to them.
  • “Oh yeah, you pretty much can’t rely on CC against a good Mirage. They break stun and can dodge in CC.”
  • “If the Mirage is good, plan on them having access to 8-12 seconds of evade frames in the first 20 seconds of combat. They are also attacking during these evade frames— so you get full pressure in return.”
  • “Oh, that is the Chrono build. It has all defensive traits and traitlines, plays completely defensively, and will put out more pressure than some glass builds. Be careful.”
  • “Yeah, you have to dodge that phantasm skill, and that one. Yes, that one too, it hits really hard, and always watch for the Shatter incoming too. Oh, be aware that Shatterstorm lets them spike again before you can recover.”

The good news is that one of my four friends decided to stay and has gotten on a lot since then. He was the Mesmer main...

Mirages are super squishy, though. Like, super squishy (which is why they need evades). I guess you have to play them similar to how I play against Holosmith’s in Photonforge. Kite them until they are on CD.

You’re right about Chrono, though. They are currently unkillabe if played right. So is every class, however.

Thieves are more squishy than Mirages, and, at least against theives, you can cc them to force their long cd stunbreaks and they basically have to disengage once they used their Shadowstep/Shadowreturn. Mirages have evades that stunbreaks every 9s because of sigil of energy, have distortion/portal as panic buttons, and chaos variants have stability spams on top that. They are not really squishy when you take all of that into consideration.

It's also more difficult to kite against Mirages when they have Jaunt, Blink, Sword/Staff ambush, Sword 3 when compared to Holosmiths

Thief’s have perma invis to compensate for their squishyness. Mirages have 2 stealth’s(3 with the elite), so they need to be able to evade to compensate for being squishy.

only deadeyes have perma invis. D/P's have limited invis unless they want to somehow do dmg without ever spending initiative on shadow shot and headshot, and tanky chaos Mirages dont even run invis.

K, and only Mirages from Mesmer class have high evades. Every class has there “thing”.

so mirages are not super squishy and is op because they have very few weakness/downsides. not sure what you're trying to say here.

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@LazySummer.2568 said:

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:There is a difference between Mesmer and other overpowered specs from previous metas. Mesmer/Mirage/Chrono is incredibly unenjoyable to play against. That’s it.

I brought four players back for double-xp weekend, and spent a good amount of time trying to explain absurd stuff to them.
  • “Oh yeah, you pretty much can’t rely on CC against a good Mirage. They break stun and can dodge in CC.”
  • “If the Mirage is good, plan on them having access to 8-12 seconds of evade frames in the first 20 seconds of combat. They are also attacking during these evade frames— so you get full pressure in return.”
  • “Oh, that is the Chrono build. It has all defensive traits and traitlines, plays completely defensively, and will put out more pressure than some glass builds. Be careful.”
  • “Yeah, you have to dodge that phantasm skill, and that one. Yes, that one too, it hits really hard, and always watch for the Shatter incoming too. Oh, be aware that Shatterstorm lets them spike again before you can recover.”

The good news is that one of my four friends decided to stay and has gotten on a lot since then. He was the Mesmer main...

Mirages are super squishy, though. Like, super squishy (which is why they need evades). I guess you have to play them similar to how I play against Holosmith’s in Photonforge. Kite them until they are on CD.

You’re right about Chrono, though. They are currently unkillabe if played right. So is every class, however.

Thieves are more squishy than Mirages, and, at least against theives, you can cc them to force their long cd stunbreaks and they basically have to disengage once they used their Shadowstep/Shadowreturn. Mirages have evades that stunbreaks every 9s because of sigil of energy, have distortion/portal as panic buttons, and chaos variants have stability spams on top that. They are not really squishy when you take all of that into consideration.

It's also more difficult to kite against Mirages when they have Jaunt, Blink, Sword/Staff ambush, Sword 3 when compared to Holosmiths

Thief’s have perma invis to compensate for their squishyness. Mirages have 2 stealth’s(3 with the elite), so they need to be able to evade to compensate for being squishy.

only deadeyes have perma invis. D/P's have limited invis unless they want to somehow do dmg without ever spending initiative on shadow shot and headshot, and tanky chaos Mirages dont even run invis.

K, and only Mirages from Mesmer class have high evades. Every class has there “thing”.

so mirages are not super squishy and is op because they have very few weakness/downsides. not sure what you're trying to say here.

Have you actually played one and gotten hit while not evading? It’s pretty much 100-0 or pretty close to it.

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@CaldaRaric.6305 said:

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:There is a difference between Mesmer and other overpowered specs from previous metas. Mesmer/Mirage/Chrono is incredibly unenjoyable to play against. That’s it.

I brought four players back for double-xp weekend, and spent a good amount of time trying to explain absurd stuff to them.
  • “Oh yeah, you pretty much can’t rely on CC against a good Mirage. They break stun and can dodge in CC.”
  • “If the Mirage is good, plan on them having access to 8-12 seconds of evade frames in the first 20 seconds of combat. They are also attacking during these evade frames— so you get full pressure in return.”
  • “Oh, that is the Chrono build. It has all defensive traits and traitlines, plays completely defensively, and will put out more pressure than some glass builds. Be careful.”
  • “Yeah, you have to dodge that phantasm skill, and that one. Yes, that one too, it hits really hard, and always watch for the Shatter incoming too. Oh, be aware that Shatterstorm lets them spike again before you can recover.”

The good news is that one of my four friends decided to stay and has gotten on a lot since then. He was the Mesmer main...

Mirages are super squishy, though. Like, super squishy (which is why they need evades). I guess you have to play them similar to how I play against Holosmith’s in Photonforge. Kite them until they are on CD.

You’re right about Chrono, though. They are currently unkillabe if played right. So is every class, however.

Thieves are more squishy than Mirages, and, at least against theives, you can cc them to force their long cd stunbreaks and they basically have to disengage once they used their Shadowstep/Shadowreturn. Mirages have evades that stunbreaks every 9s because of sigil of energy, have distortion/portal as panic buttons, and chaos variants have stability spams on top that. They are not really squishy when you take all of that into consideration.

It's also more difficult to kite against Mirages when they have Jaunt, Blink, Sword/Staff ambush, Sword 3 when compared to Holosmiths

Thief’s have perma invis to compensate for their squishyness. Mirages have 2 stealth’s(3 with the elite), so they need to be able to evade to compensate for being squishy.

only deadeyes have perma invis. D/P's have limited invis unless they want to somehow do dmg without ever spending initiative on shadow shot and headshot, and tanky chaos Mirages dont even run invis.

K, and only Mirages from Mesmer class have high evades. Every class has there “thing”.

so mirages are not super squishy and is op because they have very few weakness/downsides. not sure what you're trying to say here.

Have you actually played one and gotten hit while not evading? It’s pretty much 100-0 or pretty close to it.

That's like saying play ranger or engi and afk face tank enemy's damage and see how squishy you are (because they have the same base health pool), which means thief/ele/guard are more miles more squishy. Mirage's access to op traits and builds are exactly what makes them not squishy. Mind you those 3 classes also all have significant tradeoffs depending on if they want to build tanky or glass for damage, whereas Mirages don't.

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