We all know about mesmer, yes you hate the meta build, it’s easy to play high reward blah blah blah.

However what other aspects and classes do you feel needs toning down and why?

A slight tone down to holo sustain.A slight tone down to spellbreaker sustain, or damage, but not both.I want to say a tone down to scourge, but Its more a mechanic problem than a damage one.Mayyyybe a tone down of Firebrand sustain? That's tentative.

other than that everything's pretty ok.I don't even really care about the other classes right now. I'll settle for mostly balanced across the classes.

I personally think that Melee only Harrier Druid needs to be looked at. There's no reason that a class should have perm protection (also gets healing from protection) and perm regen (gets another 5% dmg reduction during regen) combined with permanent evasion (GS AA gives 2 dodges, GS 3 can also give 2x if QR is traited, Sword 2 & 3 and Dagger 4). Any half decent player can spam evasion while the pet does damage. Why is this build even a possibility lmao?

The thief. Im not sure just pick something.

Personally I want to see the following:

Photon forge skills get increased cool downs, I’m fine with the damage but most are on low cool downs for the effect and damage they give especially holo leapI want to see PvP version of peak performance in WvW, it’s bonkers they get 33% more damage on physical skill there.Sand savant as a skill completely reworked, it completely overshadows the other 2 traits and is nearly always better.A balance patch a month later with more changes.

Everything but my main should be nerfed.

@FyzE.3472 said:Everything but my main should be nerfed.

I am actually glad my main Spellbreaker got nerfed bad last balance patch because it needed it. It is in a very good spot compared to other classes like Mesmer or Necro. Even after the nerf I like to prove to people that play op builds like Mesmer or necro that I can still beat them. Also I love to kill the cheese thief build P/P. Everyone needs to stop rerolling to the OP classes. It doesn't make you a good player bros.

Holosmith - too much sustain, too much damage, and ridiculous amounts of short and long ranged CC.

Spell breaker - As soon as someone says the best way to beat this class is by kiting them/losing LoS, that already says that class is broken. Warr in general is just a ridiculously strong class, perma stun until dead, short CDs, obscene mobility (players should get time CD penalties for using combat skills OoC, or these skills should require a target), damage too high, sustain/regeneration is too high for a class that already has everything, with hardly any downsides. They don't have to spec into Vit or Toughness.

Scourge + Mirage - Both these Elite specs are too silly to elucidate the obvious.

Guard - For the amount of burst these guys have, do they really need 3-4 teleport-to-target skills. Guards also has too much sustain, one of the few classes that can spec high into healing and still do massive damage because they have so many damage negation skills like block (+aegis), invulns, etc.

Deadeye - Why introduce the most annoying spec in the game. A sniper class that has stealth on maps that were not designed to accommodate snipers. An elite spec solely designed by crystal meth.

I'd like to see Guardian's Sanctuary skill nerfed or reworked. It may be niche, but I don't think placing a bubble almost the size of the node that denies entry for 6-8 seconds is a very fun mechanic on a capture-hold game mode.

The projectile defense is fine, hell, make it reflect for all I care. Perhaps just remove the entry-knockback barrier and instead pulse Aegis every second?

what other aspects and classes do you feel needs toning down and why?

Spellbreaker

Full Counters' daze should just be removed from the game. It's bad enough that you have a daze on Dagger skill 3 Disrupting Stab which is also a stun if your opponent is doing something, basically punishing them for doing something, but now you have an AoE daze when enemies hit you that also gives you stability as well as resistance and applying slow and cripple for 3 seconds if you trait it. Full Counter in my opinion should work like Mace skill 2 Counter Blow.

Deadeye

Reduce the damage on the rifle by a lot. Yes, I know Deadeye is a horrible specialization for the thief when it comes to PvP and can be killed easily, but that doesn't stop the loser thieves that are too big of wimps and can't be bothered to learn how to properly play the profession. Deadeye only teaches them bad habits, and the damage is in my opinion something that needs to be reduced.

Same thing goes for P/P thieves, I'd like to have the Pistol skill 3 Unload nerfed by increasing the initiative cost from 5 to 10. That may seem harsh, but with the high damage especially when they use Deadeye simply rewards bad thieves just by pressing one button. By increasing the initiative cost, it will punish the thieves that spam 3 all day and get rid of the annoyance that comes with both Deadeye and P/P. Also, get rid of the stealth that Deadeyes have, as well as the stun from the Unforgiving trait.

Holosmith

Increase the cooldown on Photon Forge skills and make Photon Forge work similar to the necromancers' Death Shroud, where you can't use healing and utility skills in that form.

Before anyone freaks out about this, let me explain. It's no secret that the Holosmith is objectively better than both core Engineer and the Scrapper. ArenaNet, at least from my point of view wanted to give the Engineer a glass cannon type of specialization, one that deals a lot of damage, but is very squishy. This is not the case with the current Holosmith.

While I think the damage is fine especially now, giving the Holosmith a leap from Holo Leap, two stacks of stability from Corona Burst that last for 4 seconds, piercing blasts that apply burning and deal insane amounts of damage and an AoE upward launch from Holographic Shockwave that always crits is just too much. Being able to use healing skills and utility skills in Photon Forge makes the Holosmith quite the glass cannon with plenty of sustain.

Nerfing the Holosmith this way will finally bring back core Engineer and Scrapper and people will start playing those professions. I'm getting sick of every engineer playing Holosmith, just as much as every Necromancer is playing Scourge.

I would get rid of sand savant entirely. It would fix so many things in PvP and WvW. The sheer amount of area you can cover with that trait is problematic and doesn't give any room for melee counterplay.

An alternative would be to make Scourge more of a support spec (as originally intended, I think?) rather than an aoe spamming monster. However, I think removing sand savant is the easiest fix.

@Vague Memory.2817 said:Holosmith - too much sustain, too much damage, and ridiculous amounts of short and long ranged CC.

Spell breaker - As soon as someone says the best way to beat this class is by kiting them/losing LoS, that already says that class is broken. Warr in general is just a ridiculously strong class, perma stun until dead, short CDs, obscene mobility (players should get time CD penalties for using combat skills OoC, or these skills should require a target), damage too high, sustain/regeneration is too high for a class that already has everything, with hardly any downsides. They don't have to spec into Vit or Toughness.

Scourge + Mirage - Both these Elite specs are too silly to elucidate the obvious.

Guard - For the amount of burst these guys have, do they really need 3-4 teleport-to-target skills. Guards also has too much sustain, one of the few classes that can spec high into healing and still do massive damage because they have so many damage negation skills like block (+aegis), invulns, etc.

Deadeye - Why introduce the most annoying spec in the game. A sniper class that has stealth on maps that were not designed to accommodate snipers. An elite spec solely designed by crystal meth.

Really? So many classes you have to be able to kite in order to beat them. You just have it out for Warriors because we beat your class often? lol

Passive Effect from Defy pain on warrior got to go. Class still getting carried by it & needs to be removed.

All of them need nerfs honestly. To varying degrees. Also they should nerf prot and regen in pvp and reintroduce the tanky amulets.

They need to Nerf Revenants ability to respawn so fast, they enter a fight and then they just reset so fast at full health coming right back into any team fight, no other class has the ability to do that so easily, it’s too OP to be sure.

Yeah keep nerfing spellbreaker over and over and leave mesmer untouched.

Warrior is in a really good spot right now, and if you complain of spellbreaker you are just a bad player.

I am not even a warrior main and i am saying this, scourge and mesmer are the top spammy reward professions who needs a tone down.

@whoknocks.4935 said:Yeah keep nerfing spellbreaker over and over and leave mesmer untouched.

Warrior is in a really good spot right now, and if you complain of spellbreaker you are just a bad player.

I am not even a warrior main and i am saying this, scourge and mesmer are the top spammy reward professions who needs a tone down.

Your absolutely right about that! Warrior is in a good spot right now. Not only it can still dish out a good amount of unblockble damage, it does it while immunity procs to all damage with out even pressing a key stroke. Damn good place!

I love how many people complain about holosmith's damage and sustain, despite repeated significant nerfs to both of these already. Do you want holosmith to be just as useful as core engineer, scrapper, or revenant? lul, it's supposed to be high damage.

As for the sustain... seriously, the meta build for holo is almost entirely focused on being a bruiser (bruiser ammie, all utility skills are defensive, traits mostly defensive), because otherwise the spec would fall apart in seconds, thanks to the bizarre way ArenaNet has chosen to nerf it. It can't disengage nearly as easily as a mesmer, thief, or warrior can, so it needs overall higher damage and a bit more sustain.

Besides mesmer... some nerfs or changes I'd like to see:

• I still dislike the way scourge allows for braindead play. I've detailed a few fixes, but it seems ArenaNet has also gone the braindead way of nerfing it (cooldown increases), instead of trying to make the spec require more intelligence to play well. Sigh. Change Sand Savant and/or make it so that the scourge themselves are not shades.
• I dislike how easily a skilled warrior can disengage and reset the entire fight. There's a few fixes that would be relatively simple without destroying the whole class, such as reducing the distance traveled by Rush, or removing the evade frames on whirlwind. The class already gets a ton of defensive advantages, it doesn't need the disengage potential too.
• Firebrand boonspam needs to be toned down, still.

I don't have too much besides that. Here are some buffs I think we should see:

• Core necro/reaper could use some buffing (reaper needs a better way to get around, too slow for a melee class).
• Scrapper needs a better way to get around, and some way to deal with the constant corruption from scourges that turn scrapper into a wet noodle.
• Core engineer... needs a whole lot done. It's just too slow, too little damage, too vulnerable, no stability. It's all the risk, and none of the reward.
• All of revenant needs a whole lot of work. It needs more damage and sustain, less cheese abilities. Plus more customizable utilities.
• Core ele/tempest could do with some buffs.

All these people complaining about holo damage and sustain...lul.

I can objectively say that holo is one of the most (if not the most) balanced classes in the game right now.

Defense: They are really easy to focus/kill after their very predictable defensive traits/utilities go on cooldown.

Offense: If you neuter the damage like some are suggesting here, it will become scrapper 2.0 without the sustain. It’s a high-risk spec that’s supposed to do decent damage when used by a good player. Not to mention every single photon forge skill has ridiculously obvious and flashy telegraphs. If you’re scared of holos, save your dodge rolls bois.

@Exalted Quality.8534 said:All these people complaining about holo damage and sustain...lul.

I can objectively say that holo is one of the most (if not the most) balanced classes in the game right now.

Defense: They are really easy to focus/kill after their very predictable defensive traits/utilities go on cooldown.

Offense: If you neuter the damage like some are suggesting here, it will become scrapper 2.0 without the sustain. It’s a high-risk spec that’s supposed to do decent damage when used by a good player. Not to mention every single photon forge skill has ridiculously obvious and flashy telegraphs. If you’re scared of holos, save your dodge rolls bois.

No no..People are right about Engy/holo/needs to be toned down. But that's pretty much on all the classes as well. Nerf is coming

If you trait for sustain on holo, you give up massive amounts of damage. Warriors run demolishers ammy/strength runes and easily out sustain Engis who run paladin/menders ammy with any defensive rune.

Warriors are, by far, the biggest offenders of being able to rely on passive cooldowns while pumping out massive pressure, but EVERY passive cooldown in the game got nerfed, EVEN SOOTHING BASTION, a horrible, rarely used grand master trait on a horribly underperfoming class gets its cooldown more than doubled because warriors can afk and not die.

Perhaps I’m going offtopic but all I’m trying to say is that there are obvious problems with the balance of the game, but holos damage/sustain is not one of them. To put holos in the same category as spell breaker for risk vs reward/ease of play/ratio of damage to sustain is ridiculous.

I think it’s kinda crazy people are asking for sustain nerfs on multiple classes, if anything damage is what needs to be toned down.

Until damage is addressed (and mesmer, scourge) it would be a really bad idea to make the time to kill even lower.

Imo the lower the time to kill the lower the skill cap. If everyone is exploding on initiation it just becomes a case of who got the jump on who. It would also further exaggerate the mesmer and p/p thief complaints.

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Exalted Quality.8534 said:All these people complaining about holo damage and sustain...lul.

I can objectively say that holo is one of the most (if not the most) balanced classes in the game right now.

Defense: They are really easy to focus/kill after their very predictable defensive traits/utilities go on cooldown.

Offense: If you neuter the damage like some are suggesting here, it will become scrapper 2.0 without the sustain. It’s a high-risk spec that’s supposed to do decent damage when used by a good player. Not to mention every single photon forge skill has ridiculously obvious and flashy telegraphs. If you’re scared of holos, save your dodge rolls bois.

The thing is, people point out specifically holo damage as needing to be toned down. But I see warriors regularly that are just as capable of dealing the same, if not more damage. It's hard to disagree that most classes need to be toned down, but holo? It's the only spec on engineer that is performing anywhere near decently.

Okay, this may seem random and really this is just a minor issue I have, but I personally don't believe Chapter 3: Valiant Bulwark (Firebrand ToC #3) should reflect. Tome of Courage is already extremely strong, and to have an 8s cooldown on a 5s targetable AoE reflect bubble seems a bit much. With all the Firebrands running around in WvW, it's hard to feel useful if using projectiles. Projectile denial, I am fine with. But the reflection seems unnecessary. I don't think that this puts Firebrand over the top, but I personally find it to be something that was tacked onto the Firebrand's kit that was never needed from the beginning. I never hear complaints about this so perhaps I am the only one, but in my eyes, Firebrand already brings enough utility, and if they want reflection they should have to spec for Wall of Reflection. Feel free to disagree, just my two cents.

Warrior just needs to be outright deleted since evidently it's asking far too much of the community to have players actually pay any fucking attention whatsoever to what is happening at any point in the game.