"The complete class design" Tier list

The title is not too clear or rather it is misleading , this thread is not a reversed most OP class type of list instead it's a tier list based on the traits synergy of each class and their ability to create multiple build using a vast array of weapons . Let's put it in this way : the professions on top are the ones who have received the biggest number of updates on traitlines and weapons, they received the most attention and the impression is...the devs are more comfortable balancing them. knowing exactly what to expect with every change, so share your own list and opinion now.

S tier : powerful traits/synergy in every trait line- 90% of weapons are competitive - it's clear one or more devs specifically main the class and know their in/out by heart....

C tier : 1-2 trailines used basically everywhere for any hope of competitive gameplay - most meta builds will use same weapon set - it seems the only one playing it is the "test crew"

S tier :

• Warrior
• Mesmer

A tier-Guardian-Thief

B tier-Elementalist-Engineer-Necromancer-Ranger

C tier-Revenant

-NOTE-The lower the tier the more susceptible to nerf/buff cycles with the ability of raising/dropping from one season to another, basically the lower the tier , the easier is to receive an OP update that will change the class from UP to fotm ....to brokenly UP once the crying starts; this happens due to the lack of powerful synergy on multiple traitline and once the "one trick pony" synergy is nerfed..you're left with nothing and back to the pit for you...just this time you will be even lower

While we all love to shout "nerf/buff", what we really should do is "to force" these devs in showing the same level of dedication to all classes..and not only the S tier ones

Dragonhunter needs buffs

I would definitely place Mesmer and Warrior at the top. They just seem to be balanced to different standards for whatever reason. Every single traitline is good on them, and you actually have viable builds foe Core/Berserker/SB and Core/Chrono/Mirage as well.

and this is your opinion ... not oursele c tier ..... XD makes me laugh i beat them all with rev

@Arkantos.7460 said:and this is your opinion ... not oursele c tier ..... XD makes me laugh i beat them all with rev

That’s an interesting comment to look at tbh.

Is ele performing as well as it did in other seasons? Not really, that doesn’t mean I think it’s stronger or weaker just my statement and one I think many can agree with on how it’s performing at the moment.

Is revenant overperforming? It got much much higher and better might stacking ability but it also lost a lot of damage since it came out, honestly like ele I don’t believe it’s performing that well within the current meta at the moment.

However that’s very different from looking at how strong they are and what those strengths are. You’d be crazy to say the weaver one shot build isn’t strong, it pretty easily destroys you in 1s from 900 range and the menders bunker weaver is a pain in the backside to remove from a point, the tempest support build likewise hasn’t received any nerfs at all since PoF so it’s not like their support build which was top tier has been removed. Likewise you would be pretty crazy to not respect the insane amount of sustained damage a rev can put out, likewise the condition pressure a condition build can put out.

It’s just....every other class is stronger. Holosmith is far easier to play offering more CC, better sustain and as high damage, support FB is just the perfect support, scourge is still the huge area denial tool it’s always been despite the nerfs. Mesmer, warrior and Druid can all sustain a point as well as anyone else and a thief/mes is still a better +1 than rev.

However in respects to your comment, ele isn’t that great at the moment, I would say power rev vs power ele (non bunker) should be in the revs favour but a well played bunker will probably not die to a rev. If you watch Cellofrags videos you can see how tanky they are.

Edit: As for the OP.

I wouldn’t call any of the current meta builds that fair or particularly balanced for any class, they either are flat out too strong or they are overbearing in a singular aspect which means you need an overpowered build to kill them. Example being bunker weaver, people might say, yes it’s balanced, no it’s weak in the meta however the amount of self sustain for an elite spec focused on damage is far too high which means it isn’t balanced as it can pretty much stall any match up even against currently overperforming builds.

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:I would definitely place Mesmer and Warrior at the top. They just seem to be balanced to different standards for whatever reason. Every single traitline is good on them, and you actually have viable builds foe Core/Berserker/SB and Core/Chrono/Mirage as well.Viable berserker build ? Core mesmer ? What you are smoking there?

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:I would definitely place Mesmer and Warrior at the top. They just seem to be balanced to different standards for whatever reason. Every single traitline is good on them, and you actually have viable builds foe Core/Berserker/SB and Core/Chrono/Mirage as well.

Tactics, arms and berserker viable 4Head

Your definition of a balanced profession is incredibly strange

@apharma.3741 said:

@Arkantos.7460 said:and this is your opinion ... not oursele c tier ..... XD makes me laugh i beat them all with rev

the potential of ele is unleashed by a potential player who plays it and what kind of decisions he makes during fights, i also played with and against cellofrag, we had interesting party upsI prefer a great ele more then anything else because i know the potential, but most ppl dont know how to play ele , thats sadits also sad that engi holo offers so much dps cc and sustain and others are left behind .... i dont want to speak about spellbreaker mesma who are top tier classes

@"mrauls.6519" said:Dragonhunter needs buffs

no it doesn't everything else need a nerf. Dh is at a good place, everything else in to high.

I think most people didn't really understand the post, it's not about OP or UP specs specifically speaking, rather I have listed the professions based on the quality of the traitlines they have and the ability to create multiple build even after receiving multiple nerfs.

The harder is to nerf one class the more "balanced" it is, meaning it does not rely on gimmicks and one trick pony traits...the game should push in this direction for all classes and not only the S tier ones

@apharma.3741 said:

@Arkantos.7460 said:and this is your opinion ... not oursele c tier ..... XD makes me laugh i beat them all with rev

@Arkantos.7460 said:and this is your opinion ... not oursele c tier ..... XD makes me laugh i beat them all with rev

The weaver elite offers no sustain whatsoever or rather on its own the traitline is weakly balanced and the whole concept is badly implemented, sword is the only thing holding ele in a semi playable state in pvp/wvw(roaming) outside staff pocket monkey dps. If you ask @Cellofrag to play a d/d weaver using same amulet...you will see how long he lasts respects to sword/dagger weaver.

In this regard I didn't want to place necro and ele on the last tier to avoid any bias talk but really in my mind : ele-necro and rev share same last spot in the sense that they rely on "one trick pony" builds to remain playable while their traitline are close to atrocious respect to the S tier classes.

Elementalist is the last thing I would call balanced or well designed in this game, the class has been heal burst or GTFO since launch, in every meta outside again the pocket monkey staff dps on perma respawn duty

I don't disagree with you saying that weaver bunker is over the top..but it's over the top along side other specs which are over the top in anything they do...the ele instead got that only one trick build, you nerf that...and there is nothing, like you nerf the healing of an ele and dps of a staff and I guarantee you...tomorrow every single player in GW2 would delete their ele, mostly would leave the game to never come back while few would reroll

The true meaning of my tier list : S-A you're balanced, you're lucky that main devs play your class.....B-C...you're screwed, from start ..to end

@"Arheundel.6451" said:I think most people didn't really understand the post, it's not about OP or UP specs specifically speaking, rather I have listed the professions based on the quality of the traitlines they have and the ability to create multiple build even after receiving multiple nerfs.

The harder is to nerf one class the more "balanced" it is, meaning it does not rely on gimmicks and one trick pony traits...the game should push in this direction for all classes and not only the S tier ones

It doesn't help people to understand when you are misusing the word balance. Mesmer is quite broken right now, yet you list it as the most balanced profession. Clearly, there is misunderstanding then, because mesmer is anything but balanced right now.

The term I think you're looking for is best designed. Even if they aren't as strong as meta builds it's possible to run core Warrior and even some Berserker's setups and be fairly viable. Although you do get basically forced into using Discipline.

Meanwhile Engi has some utterly useless traits that you'll never use because they serve no real purpose. Even when they had meta builds it still wasn't well designed. Necro has some really cool combo potential but many of them aren't strong enough to be viable (or other stuff is just too damn strong).

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:The term I think you're looking for is best designed. Even if they aren't as strong as meta builds it's possible to run core Warrior and even some Berserker's setups and be fairly viable. Although you do get basically forced into using Discipline.

Meanwhile Engi has some utterly useless traits that you'll never use because they serve no real purpose. Even when they had meta builds it still wasn't well designed. Necro has some really cool combo potential but many of them aren't strong enough to be viable (or other stuff is just too kitten strong).

Ty that's the correct term, I will change it now

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:I would definitely place Mesmer and Warrior at the top. They just seem to be balanced to different standards for whatever reason. Every single traitline is good on them, and you actually have viable builds foe Core/Berserker/SB and Core/Chrono/Mirage as well.

Every traitline? Arms? Tactics? Berserker? When's the last time you saw a competitive player with any of those?

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:I would definitely place Mesmer and Warrior at the top. They just seem to be balanced to different standards for whatever reason. Every single traitline is good on them, and you actually have viable builds foe Core/Berserker/SB and Core/Chrono/Mirage as well.

I'd throw in guardian as well, you have viable builds for every elite spec, with plenty of variation between all of these. I don't know enough about the traitlines, but I've never seen a meta in the past 6 years where guardian wasn't in it.

@"Arkantos.7460" said:and this is your opinion ... not oursele c tier ..... XD makes me laugh i beat them all with rev

I think ele, engineer, and rev all are in the C tier, they just change positions based on the balance of the day. It's not surprising too, given that these three are the most complex classes, and slight tweaks elsewhere in the game can have massive ramifications on these three -- for example, confusion nerf hit engineer HARD, but ANet devs didn't recognize that. Unsurprisingly, people are accusing holosmith of doing too much damage, and they don't even realize it's a poorly designed core engineer trait that's causing all the consternation. The same poorly designed trait has been around for years, it's just never been this useful.

Holosmith has had its fun, now it's likely going to enter oblivion with scrapper and core engineer because the ArenaNet devs can't recognize the actual problem and will nerf photon forge. I expect Weaver or Tempest to be up next balance pass, maybe Renegade too.

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:The term I think you're looking for is best designed. Even if they aren't as strong as meta builds it's possible to run core Warrior and even some Berserker's setups and be fairly viable. Although you do get basically forced into using Discipline.

Meanwhile Engi has some utterly useless traits that you'll never use because they serve no real purpose. Even when they had meta builds it still wasn't well designed. Necro has some really cool combo potential but many of them aren't strong enough to be viable (or other stuff is just too kitten strong).

Pretty much this. I think too many people are missing the forest for the trees. Being meta is not the same as being well-designed. Scourge is the epitome of this -- it was poorly designed, but it has been meta for a very long time.

Engineer's traits are godawfully designed, and we're often railroaded into the same meta build if we want to stand any chance. Variation in engineer design is frustratingly low, especially given that it's supposed to be an engineer.

I'd put Engineer into the C tier going by your criteria. Pretty much every competitive build is Holo/Inventions using Rifle.

@Obindo.6802 said:

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:I would definitely place Mesmer and Warrior at the top. They just seem to be balanced to different standards for whatever reason. Every single traitline is good on them, and you actually have viable builds foe Core/Berserker/SB and Core/Chrono/Mirage as well.

has OP ever looked at out traits lol? arms GM traits so stronk bro ;) :p =)

warrior builds are just Defense + Discipline +Spellbreaker/Strength (had the option of berserker pre nerfs). it's like the least build variety out there lol. you have very limited choice of both traits, weapons and skills, well unless you just want to run trash builds w like hammer lol (but that only works in bronze lol).

The answer to this question could probably be answered by watching Mystic builds every weekend. You get random traits and skills, I don’t think there’s any class that has no bad combinations. There’s some classes where as long as they get 1 or 2 traits they completely dominate like mirage with elusive mind and other classes need several synergistic traits/skills to make a viable build