Can we put PIPS into Unranked? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Can we put PIPS into Unranked?

sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited April 28, 2018 in PVP

can we think about putting PIPS into unranked, even if it's half the amount of PIPS earned or something?

Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
06210311 251521 121512

<1

Comments

  • polvere.2805polvere.2805 Member ✭✭✭

    @NecroSummonsMors.7816 said:
    I think this would be a great idea to be honest. So people that want to pvp just for reward can go unranked and leave those who want a competitive mode free to play with people that are interested too in ranked pvp. I still think that those in competitive should receive more rewards, but this probably will make not competitive player come back to ranked just for more rewards. Idk at this point having pips reward in both could at least mitigate the problem.

    If in comp i receive more rewards then i will go in comp and i don't really care about my rank or the competitivity. I for sure try to win but i will never tryhard

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 29, 2018

    @polvere.2805 said:

    @NecroSummonsMors.7816 said:
    I think this would be a great idea to be honest. So people that want to pvp just for reward can go unranked and leave those who want a competitive mode free to play with people that are interested too in ranked pvp. I still think that those in competitive should receive more rewards, but this probably will make not competitive player come back to ranked just for more rewards. Idk at this point having pips reward in both could at least mitigate the problem.

    If in comp i receive more rewards then i will go in comp and i don't really care about my rank or the competitivity. I for sure try to win but i will never tryhard

    As for me, I just want to farm with guildies and friends and not have to feel bad for playing casually. I also agree that people in ranked should be awarded more, I'd be happy with half the amount of PIPS, atleast it's something.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Fremtid.3528Fremtid.3528 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeah but if it's half the amount of pips it'll still encourage noobies who want more rewards to fill queues in ranked polluting ranked. It should just be full pips in unranked that way people who only queue for pips won't go ranked and kitten off people who are actually competing.

  • Aza.2105Aza.2105 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fremtid.3528 said:
    Yeah but if it's half the amount of pips it'll still encourage noobies who want more rewards to fill queues in ranked polluting ranked. It should just be full pips in unranked that way people who only queue for pips won't go ranked and kitten off people who are actually competing.

    But then vets complain about noobies in ranked mode.

  • pah.4931pah.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Unranked can be super fun. There are a lot of weird builds you never get a chance to play against.

    Ranked is the same thing over and over and over.

  • @polvere.2805 said:
    They should put it the same way that it is in ranked. Otherwise who wants to just farm would go to ranked. I don't care of my rank and i just play for the lulz, to get salty messages and for the rewards. I would not play unranked if it gives less pips than ranked.
    Also for those who want to farm is actually better in ranked. You throw some games to get down in rank and then you snowball newbies ez pz. The system is just broken and exploitable

    Sir, did you just admit to match manipulation? I think we have a confession!

  • LazySummer.2568LazySummer.2568 Member ✭✭✭

    Yes please, I would like be able to farm in unranked while having fun. Ranked is just bunch of boring classes/builds thanks to kitten balance and it's full of afks itself anyways I honestly cant tell the difference other than no team queues and a lot more braindead mesmers and scourges in ranked when compared to unranked

  • Lucentfir.7430Lucentfir.7430 Member ✭✭✭

    Unranked Pips would be good for Spvp because it means more people will just be playing PVP in general, and there will be a sort of filter between people playing for fun and rewards and people trying to climb the season ladder for titles/rank placement.

  • polvere.2805polvere.2805 Member ✭✭✭

    @CaldaRaric.6305 said:
    Sir, did you just admit to match manipulation? I think we have a confession!

    Actually no, if you check my games history i always try to win. But the fact that i am not abusing the system doesn't mean that it can't be abused. I don't play often enough to abuse it. Actually the decay system does it for me. (i usually play once in 2-3 weeks)

  • Fremtid.3528Fremtid.3528 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aza.2105 said:

    @Fremtid.3528 said:
    Yeah but if it's half the amount of pips it'll still encourage noobies who want more rewards to fill queues in ranked polluting ranked. It should just be full pips in unranked that way people who only queue for pips won't go ranked and kitten off people who are actually competing.

    But then vets complain about noobies in ranked mode.

    Um why? If you get full pips in unranked there will be LESS noobies in ranked not more. That's what I'm saying.

  • polvere.2805polvere.2805 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:
    Unranked Pips would be good for Spvp because it means more people will just be playing PVP in general, and there will be a sort of filter between people playing for fun and rewards and people trying to climb the season ladder for titles/rank placement.

    It would bee to much of a smart move from anet. Also for some absurd reasons the ones tryharding in ranked would be pissed off because "omg casuls gettin rewards in unranked, this game is so casul kitten kitten". Yeah so much better having them all in ranked, so then they can come complain on the forums instead because "omg nubs in ranked lose ma game, kitten matchmaking"

    What do we learn from this: "Hardcore" pvpers will NEVER be happy, so just ignore them

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2018

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:
    Unranked Pips would be good for Spvp because it means more people will just be playing PVP in general, and there will be a sort of filter between people playing for fun and rewards and people trying to climb the season ladder for titles/rank placement.

    I mostly just want to say in guild chat "anyone wanna farm PvP and have some fun"...

    ....Anyway, there's plenty of other MMO games that don't force you into solo content and it's been fun trying a few of them too

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Make the pips in unranked at some discounted rate, and no more pips in ranked for losses.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • Chuck.2864Chuck.2864 Member ✭✭✭

    Putting pips into unranked but less than in ranked will change nothing. People who play PvP for nothing but pips will continue to do so in ranked because they don't care about their rating or the game mode anyway and hey, more pips, so why not?

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Or..we could give pips to winners only..

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Great way to kill ranked even more huh

    Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.

  • Ziggityzog.7389Ziggityzog.7389 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Please don't. That will bring unranked play down to the joke level that ranked is at. I enjoy my unranked games during the season and off season but mostly during. While the season is going all the tryhards, afk pve reward hunters, bots, hackers, wintraders, and the rest of the junk players play ranked and leave me be.

    These days the real pvp is min unranked and has been for a couple years. Ranked has been ruined by lack of caring to make pvp better, its now stale gameplay with no chance of a competitive side.

    Let unranked stay fun and where the real pvp players play not for shiny objects but to play.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 23, 2018

    @Chuck.2864 said:
    Putting pips into unranked but less than in ranked will change nothing. People who play PvP for nothing but pips will continue to do so in ranked because they don't care about their rating or the game mode anyway and hey, more pips, so why not?

    And then you got people like me who work 5 days a week and want to play for the PIPS with friends but due to work can't actually be bothered to win the game or try hard and this causes mass frustrations and toxicity from those who care about rank.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • No need to put the pips in unranked. Just do away with the reward track that is in ranked and turn it into permanent reward track that is accessible in whatever mode of play they wish, this way ranked play is for the sole purpose of the leaderboard.

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭

    More pibs for winning ranked.
    Unranked gives the same as a loss.

    This incentivises ranked and ranked players to win.
    People playing to win will fight!
    Casuals will have a place to get losses without match manipulation.

    Can we also get some reward system for Mist arena? I get it’s not supported content but it is a fun area to spend time in game, and I think it’s reasonable to reward your players for participating in content.

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This looks like an attempt to bring in team queue by the side door. It would drain players from ranked. As such, I don't think it's a good idea.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    This looks like an attempt to bring in team queue by the side door. It would drain players from ranked. As such, I don't think it's a good idea.

    of course it is, I want to farm, play and have fun with guildies in PvP, is that too much to ask from a MMO?

    Its also a suggestion to get rid of those nasty pip farmers from ranked that players whine so much about.

    its a win win

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    This looks like an attempt to bring in team queue by the side door. It would drain players from ranked. As such, I don't think it's a good idea.

    of course it is, I want to farm, play and have fun with guildies in PvP, is that too much to ask from a MMO?

    Its also a suggestion to get rid of those nasty pip farmers from ranked that players whine so much about.

    its a win win

    It's too much to ask when it comes at the expense of pounding solo players and others, yes.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    This looks like an attempt to bring in team queue by the side door. It would drain players from ranked. As such, I don't think it's a good idea.

    of course it is, I want to farm, play and have fun with guildies in PvP, is that too much to ask from a MMO?

    Its also a suggestion to get rid of those nasty pip farmers from ranked that players whine so much about.

    its a win win

    It's too much to ask when it comes at the expense of pounding solo players and others, yes.

    which is why the question is being asked to put them in unranked, where it's not just solo players.

    Ranked has the solo players, don't get too confused now :heart:

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24, 2018

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    This looks like an attempt to bring in team queue by the side door. It would drain players from ranked. As such, I don't think it's a good idea.

    of course it is, I want to farm, play and have fun with guildies in PvP, is that too much to ask from a MMO?

    Its also a suggestion to get rid of those nasty pip farmers from ranked that players whine so much about.

    its a win win

    It's too much to ask when it comes at the expense of pounding solo players and others, yes.

    which is why the question is being asked to put them in unranked, where it's not just solo players.

    Ranked has the solo players, don't get too confused now :heart:

    There are solos in unranked too. I'm not confused. 5v5 is one thing 5vsolos is something entirely different.
    By your own admission you, "want to farm." That farming comes at the expense of someone else.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • Ziggityzog.7389Ziggityzog.7389 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    This looks like an attempt to bring in team queue by the side door. It would drain players from ranked. As such, I don't think it's a good idea.

    of course it is, I want to farm, play and have fun with guildies in PvP, is that too much to ask from a MMO?

    Its also a suggestion to get rid of those nasty pip farmers from ranked that players whine so much about.

    its a win win

    It's too much to ask when it comes at the expense of pounding solo players and others, yes.

    which is why the question is being asked to put them in unranked, where it's not just solo players.

    Ranked has the solo players, don't get too confused now :heart:

    Do not ruin unranked by bringing it down to the level of kitten ranked is at. Ranked was ruined by many steps from making pvp a pve farm to stale boring pvp and making it duo que.

    Yeah its "solo" or "duo" in ranked but it's just one giant wintrade game. Who can wintrade and match manipulate to the top!?

    Sorry unranked is the last good thing about pvp. Let all the trash players play for "top" on the cheaterboard. Keep the trash out of unranked.

  • pah.4931pah.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    This looks like an attempt to bring in team queue by the side door. It would drain players from ranked. As such, I don't think it's a good idea.

    of course it is, I want to farm, play and have fun with guildies in PvP, is that too much to ask from a MMO?

    Its also a suggestion to get rid of those nasty pip farmers from ranked that players whine so much about.

    its a win win

    It's too much to ask when it comes at the expense of pounding solo players and others, yes.

    which is why the question is being asked to put them in unranked, where it's not just solo players.

    Ranked has the solo players, don't get too confused now :heart:

    There are solos in unranked too. I'm not confused. 5v5 is one thing 5vsolos is something entirely different.
    By your own admission you, "want to farm." That farming comes at the expense of someone else.

    Um. Sorry. But why on earth would you want to punish social play in an MMO so badly? When he said "farm" ... he meant rewards, not kills (lol that you didn't understand him). Anet has already said that team's had worse win/loss ratios than solo players... do you just willfully put your head in the sand or are you unable to grasp such simple concepts?

    "At the expense of someone else" ... this is the silliest thing I've read ever. It's PvP. Sometimes you lose. Sometimes you win. It's always at the expense at someone else. If you refuse to believe the data, then there's little I can do for you... but one way or the other, the "expense of someone else" is happening. You literally just declined his suggestion -- at the expense of his own fun -- with the argument that it's benefit comes at the expense of someone else. Surely you can see the absurdity of that. "Sorry. We're going to prevent you from having fun because it prevents others from having fun." ... Unranked already has team-q ... so... your arguments are, uh, terrible.

    This game is already the most solo-friendly MMO to ever be created. Why the hate for people who want to play with their friends. It's almost as if you WANT the pvp in this game to die.

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @pah.4931 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    This looks like an attempt to bring in team queue by the side door. It would drain players from ranked. As such, I don't think it's a good idea.

    of course it is, I want to farm, play and have fun with guildies in PvP, is that too much to ask from a MMO?

    Its also a suggestion to get rid of those nasty pip farmers from ranked that players whine so much about.

    its a win win

    It's too much to ask when it comes at the expense of pounding solo players and others, yes.

    which is why the question is being asked to put them in unranked, where it's not just solo players.

    Ranked has the solo players, don't get too confused now :heart:

    There are solos in unranked too. I'm not confused. 5v5 is one thing 5vsolos is something entirely different.
    By your own admission you, "want to farm." That farming comes at the expense of someone else.

    Um. Sorry. But why on earth would you want to punish social play in an MMO so badly? When he said "farm" ... he meant rewards, not kills (lol that you didn't understand him). Anet has already said that team's had worse win/loss ratios than solo players... do you just willfully put your head in the sand or are you unable to grasp such simple concepts?

    "At the expense of someone else" ... this is the silliest thing I've read ever. It's PvP. Sometimes you lose. Sometimes you win. It's always at the expense at someone else. If you refuse to believe the data, then there's little I can do for you... but one way or the other, the "expense of someone else" is happening. You literally just declined his suggestion -- at the expense of his own fun -- with the argument that it's benefit comes at the expense of someone else. Surely you can see the absurdity of that. "Sorry. We're going to prevent you from having fun because it prevents others from having fun." ... Unranked already has team-q ... so... your arguments are, uh, terrible.

    This game is already the most solo-friendly MMO to ever be created. Why the hate for people who want to play with their friends. It's almost as if you WANT the pvp in this game to die.

    Quoting for visibility as this is pretty spot on.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2018

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    This looks like an attempt to bring in team queue by the side door. It would drain players from ranked. As such, I don't think it's a good idea.

    of course it is, I want to farm, play and have fun with guildies in PvP, is that too much to ask from a MMO?

    Its also a suggestion to get rid of those nasty pip farmers from ranked that players whine so much about.

    its a win win

    It's too much to ask when it comes at the expense of pounding solo players and others, yes.

    which is why the question is being asked to put them in unranked, where it's not just solo players.

    Ranked has the solo players, don't get too confused now :heart:

    There are solos in unranked too. I'm not confused. 5v5 is one thing 5vsolos is something entirely different.
    By your own admission you, "want to farm." That farming comes at the expense of someone else.

    You're right it does, me farming ascended marks comes at the expense of 4 others who care about their rank.

    I used to rage about PIP farmers but now that I have a life to attend too, it's the only thing that keeps me coming back at this point, a few friendly PvP games and some marks to go towards my Sublime Armor set.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2018

    Please no. And the reason I say this is that: 1. Unranked is used as a code testing ground by the devs and; 2. As a player testing ground for builds. So if you end up adding more value to the game mode you remove that aspect adding more ill-will to both. Since ranked already will attempt to balance teams and add pips, why not play there if pips are your goal?

    Edit: Reading thru full thread, if your goal is to hang with other guildies I see it more, but they would have to have it at a much reduced rate to account for the difference in MM and choosing your own team.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Ralkuth.1456Ralkuth.1456 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2018

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    By your own admission you, "want to farm." That farming comes at the expense of someone else.

    "Why should you have the right to do something that's offensive?"
    I do appreciate your all-encompassing care for members of the community, as I believe it is one of the needed polarities to create the overall GW2 atmosphere. Opinions like yours keep toxicity in check to a degree.
    But that is still only one side of things.

    I think the whole solo-up-to-five model of unranked is flawed, and solo ranking for a team game mode is flawed.
    It is definitely lopsided. And our small population doesn't help.
    But, knowing it is solo-to-5 queuing and still queuing into it is the definite expression of yolo... and a degree of acceptance that it is a disadvantaged position to be in should be present.

    I don't really agree with how you view competition, because it is by nature offensive and at others' expense, and because in this context I believe self-assurance matters far more than external displays of sportsmanship.
    Frankly, if one doesn't want to offend anyone... don't compete.
    And I think that if one plays a competitive game-mode one should try one's best no matter the odds.
    (Which is why I don't queue when I'm too frustrated/tired for that mindset.)
    (1) If one goes soft on weaker opponents then one becomes a liability to one's own team, and one feels good at the team's expense.
    (2) "It's obvious we're going to win anyway" as an argument to (1) - that is disrespect for your opponents.
    (3) If one feels victimized and subconsciously give up facing strong opponents one is a liability to the team's spirit, and one avoids damaging one's pride at the team's expense.

    Just so you know this is not a personal attack, as doing such a thing does not help my position in a discussion in any way.
    (Yes, I have thought of the possibility it might seem so to you.)
    I still remember the old yolo queues in Core, we knew each other and suffered with (or killed mercilessly in good cheer) one another. I force myself to learn from losses and accept the game about to start (against regular 5-man-premades) for what it is. This experience was important to me and that is why I felt you misrepresented what it is like to compete.

    Of course, I can relate to playing purely for fun with no responsibilities in the match whatsoever - but it also means I should not care at all about wins and losses. Nor how others view me as a teammate. If your teammates mean nothing to you - your dignity won't mean anything to them.

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    of course it is, I want to farm, play and have fun with guildies in PvP, is that too much to ask from a MMO?

    And here I think this player's points have been misrepresented as well. Putting the emphasis on the word "farm" and not putting into focus the big picture of adding incentive to queuing in a group with friends.
    Getting farmed does occur, you've done it to others, you've experienced it. But not getting/wanting to do it to others does not mean one becomes entitled to not get farmed. I think it's unhealthy to assume that. It's like turning a failure into a virtue and demonizing victory. That sort of thinking has never helped me in life.

    And finally, regarding pips in general, I would like to put in an idea I read here that is rather incentivizing, credits to who suggested it - losing side gets 1 pip more every 100 points they have. Maybe we can even implement the "compensatory kill count" where you get 1 more pip every 20 total kills or something. That way you keep the losing team fresh, murderous, malicious and willing to screw you - up the objectives, down the stairs and all over the map just for kicks. Of course they still get less in total.

    Player of distinguishing mediocrity (S5: G3, S6: P1, S17: P1).
    Carrying enemy team since 2012.
    "Multiclass implies you can actually play the class" - A Certain Royalty, on Twitch

  • Vaga.5174Vaga.5174 Member ✭✭✭

    Its fine as is.

    You still get rewarded in unranked with reward tracks. You should be rewarded more for Ranked. Ranked needs the player base, and i really think its delusional that a majority of people 'farm' pvp without trying as its so slow to make money if you dont win regularly.

    You know maybe it should actually be that Ranked games only reward pips if you win. Then maybe it will reduce the amount of people who actually do 'farm' pvp and dont try, which ruins the competitiveness for players who do care.

    All i see here is people wanting to get rewarded more for doing less, which is pretty typical in GW2.

  • MarshallLaw.9260MarshallLaw.9260 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2018

    Perhaps the better solution is to remove "pips on loss" and reduce how "farmable" ranked is.
    Absolutely no reason to put the same pips in unranked - it's better to have group ques added to ranked if people want to play with their friends/guilds.
    Another option would be to increase rewards for players ending the season within the top 250 - extra GM Marks perhaps - and simultaneously reduce the rewards outside of the top 250 - e.g. only 1 GM Mark instead of the 3 we normally get, same number of dyes, less gold.
    I see this as being something which would discourage farming for the sake of farming rather than playing the mode as intended. It's still important to have some rewards outside of the top 250 to encourage genuinely interested players who are trying to climb.

    EDIT: -another idea is to split rewards for ranks:
    Using GM marks as example:
    1 for ending in Bronze
    2 for Silver
    3 for Gold (the same as current full run of league reward track)
    5 for Plat
    10(?) for Leg.

  • Vaga.5174Vaga.5174 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2018

    PvP is suppose to be the competitive game mode. In most games, PvP rewards players who get better at the game, and win more regularly, this is how GW2 should be, its incentivises getting better.

    Unranked is an area for where players in GW2 can play the game mode freely for non-competitiveness enjoyment, with friends, testing builds and some level of reward.

    Ranked is the game mode that should be protected as the competitive game mode. Individual players want to feel rewarded for getting better, not just from seeing a number of skill level or a leaderboard position, but actually see some rewards.

    AT's are a step in the direction for the organised group competitive game mode. Players coming together to feel rewarded for getting better not only individually, but as a team. This is highly rewarded for what PvP is, and should be, a competitive, skill based game mode.

    If you want to play the game and get highly rewarded for less input in a non-competitive pvp enviroment, there is always WvW that does just that. We should be incentivising good gameplay, not making it so nobody has to try, in order to get rewarded in THE competitive game mode.

    Farming in PvP should not even exist. The only time farming should be used as a term in PvP, is if a player, or players, really have got good enough to do so, in which case, fair play as that is their reward for getting good in the games competitive mode.

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2018

    @Ralkuth.1456 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    By your own admission you, "want to farm." That farming comes at the expense of someone else.

    "Why should you have the right to do something that's offensive?"
    I do appreciate your all-encompassing care for members of the community, as I believe it is one of the needed polarities to create the overall GW2 atmosphere. Opinions like yours keep toxicity in check to a degree.
    But that is still only one side of things.

    I think the whole solo-up-to-five model of unranked is flawed, and solo ranking for a team game mode is flawed.
    It is definitely lopsided. And our small population doesn't help.
    But, knowing it is solo-to-5 queuing and still queuing into it is the definite expression of yolo... and a degree of acceptance that it is a disadvantaged position to be in should be present.

    I don't really agree with how you view competition, because it is by nature offensive and at others' expense, and because in this context I believe self-assurance matters far more than external displays of sportsmanship.
    Frankly, if one doesn't want to offend anyone... don't compete.
    And I think that if one plays a competitive game-mode one should try one's best no matter the odds.
    (Which is why I don't queue when I'm too frustrated/tired for that mindset.)
    (1) If one goes soft on weaker opponents then one becomes a liability to one's own team, and one feels good at the team's expense.
    (2) "It's obvious we're going to win anyway" as an argument to (1) - that is disrespect for your opponents.
    (3) If one feels victimized and subconsciously give up facing strong opponents one is a liability to the team's spirit, and one avoids damaging one's pride at the team's expense.

    Just so you know this is not a personal attack, as doing such a thing does not help my position in a discussion in any way.
    (Yes, I have thought of the possibility it might seem so to you.)
    I still remember the old yolo queues in Core, we knew each other and suffered with (or killed mercilessly in good cheer) one another. I force myself to learn from losses and accept the game about to start (against regular 5-man-premades) for what it is. This experience was important to me and that is why I felt you misrepresented what it is like to compete.

    Of course, I can relate to playing purely for fun with no responsibilities in the match whatsoever - but it also means I should not care at all about wins and losses. Nor how others view me as a teammate. If your teammates mean nothing to you - your dignity won't mean anything to them.

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    of course it is, I want to farm, play and have fun with guildies in PvP, is that too much to ask from a MMO?

    And here I think this player's points have been misrepresented as well. Putting the emphasis on the word "farm" and not putting into focus the big picture of adding incentive to queuing in a group with friends.
    Getting farmed does occur, you've done it to others, you've experienced it. But not getting/wanting to do it to others does not mean one becomes entitled to not get farmed. I think it's unhealthy to assume that. It's like turning a failure into a virtue and demonizing victory. That sort of thinking has never helped me in life.

    And finally, regarding pips in general, I would like to put in an idea I read here that is rather incentivizing, credits to who suggested it - losing side gets 1 pip more every 100 points they have. Maybe we can even implement the "compensatory kill count" where you get 1 more pip every 20 total kills or something. That way you keep the losing team fresh, murderous, malicious and willing to screw you - up the objectives, down the stairs and all over the map just for kicks. Of course they still get less in total.

    Altruism is the most efficient way of doing things, the "meta" if you will. Putting it another way: The old Mafiosi said, ( paraphrase,) "everyone gets a piece of the pie."

    When everyone benefits a little, all prosper. Conflict , feuds and destruction happen when someone gets greedy and wants more than their share.

    Now, having been raised in the United States I understand all about competition. Still unmoderated competition, so called "social Darwinism" has failed in every historical instance.

    The Stock Market operates under a close set of rules as do all successful "competitive" situations. They do this because when one faction takes too much, things break down. To whit, the Great Depression.( which was finally mitigated by giving the poor some help, balancing things)

    In the same way, PvP needs to be moderated competition. The fact that it hasn't always been adequately moderated,(especially in s2-s3 with the "win streaking" and "competitive" matchmaking,) is largely responsible for where we are today.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • Ralkuth.1456Ralkuth.1456 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2018

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    Altruism is the most efficient way of doing things, the "meta" if you will. Putting it another way: The old Mafiosi said, ( paraphrase,) "everyone gets a piece of the pie."

    When everyone benefits a little, all prosper. Conflict , feuds and destruction happen when someone gets greedy and wants more than their share.

    Now, having been raised in the United States I understand all about competition. Still unmoderated competition, so called "social Darwinism" has failed in every historical instance.

    The Stock Market operates under a close set of rules as do all successful "competitive" situations. They do this because when one faction takes too much, things break down. To whit, the Great Depression.( which was finally mitigated by giving the poor some help, balancing things)

    In the same way, PvP needs to be moderated competition. The fact that it hasn't always been adequately moderated,(especially in s2-s3 with the "win streaking" and "competitive" matchmaking,) is largely responsible for where we are today.

    I think you mean "reciprocal altruism" (less for more) instead of "Randian pure altruism" (more for less).'
    Because if we are discussing the latter we shouldn't even be playing GW2, but out there giving to everything that needs giving.
    Absolute selflessness requires the elimination of self-esteem, and not even martyrs who die - with the aim to achieve some personal significance - could make the cut.
    Or perhaps we have been discussing "pity" (want to) instead of altruism (ought to)?

    Altruism is a great idea, and it helps to uplift those that do not yet have the minimum ability to sustain themselves, so they can enter the economy.
    What altruism can offer is a starting line, an equality of opportunity at a better life.
    Personally I believe further than that and people might become reliant and we might unknowingly cripple their capacity to struggle and grow.
    But that is an anecdotal claim I'm not satisfied with and perhaps you know more.

    It would be impossible to rule out personal enjoyment in competitions, and I don't think that is being disputed. Sprinkling a bit of reciprocal altruism in there to reduce the viciousness is great, but moderated competition is still competition and comes at the expense of someone else. Better moderation is, in a sense, only making it more accurate who "deserves" to shoulder the expense.

    "Social Darwinism" is a misusing, old and over-simplified concept that sounds more like an excuse when you examine the historical context (the viewpoint of rich, educated, upper-class Imperialist Europeans).

    Player of distinguishing mediocrity (S5: G3, S6: P1, S17: P1).
    Carrying enemy team since 2012.
    "Multiclass implies you can actually play the class" - A Certain Royalty, on Twitch

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 28, 2018

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:
    Please no. And the reason I say this is that: 1. Unranked is used as a code testing ground by the devs and; 2. As a player testing ground for builds. So if you end up adding more value to the game mode you remove that aspect adding more ill-will to both. Since ranked already will attempt to balance teams and add pips, why not play there if pips are your goal?

    Edit: Reading thru full thread, if your goal is to hang with other guildies I see it more, but they would have to have it at a much reduced rate to account for the difference in MM and choosing your own team.

    I'd honestly be fine with only getting 1-3 PIPS a win...
    I don't want to take value away from rank either.

    If we still haven't finalized the trial of duo queue after 6 seasons then I doubt we will get our team queues back which is why I propose an alternate idea to help keep the population up. I didn't care for rank with team queue at all but they removed it because it was unfair to solo queue players which is fair enough, but atleast compensate us a little, we were playing MMO with friends after all and having fun until it was taken away. We were playing the game the way it was designed, we didn't scream at Anet to change it but we did miss out because of the ones who did.


    I'm just looking to post in guild chat "who wants to farm thier ascended in PvP?" then proceed to have fun with guildies in a match and then use that opportunity to get PvE/WvW focused players hooked onto PvP like it was done to me and like I did to about 10-15 players when we used to have active team queues...

    We didn't win a lot either, too busy playing golf with people on banish guards and what ever, hunting that thief for lolz so to respond to some other peoples posts in this thread, when I say farm, it's not to farm players, it's to simply farm some ascended gear and have fun friends....

    My realistic situation is that I couldn't get a 5 man team at this point anymore, but we always have enough for a 3 man team....
    The big issue is that 1 is above the duo cut off point, the other is low silver and when I bother to fix my ranks decay I'm high gold but we have trouble queing together in ranked due to our skill differences so it's naturally splitting us up... 3 is what we have left too, we had more but due to the system splitting us, people have evidently decided to play other games and I can see that because the community I was apart of before the removal of team queue are all linked with each other on Facebook.

    TLDR: I care about this game, I just wish the devs and players did too, seems too many care about their arbitrary rank.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ziggityzog.7389 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    This looks like an attempt to bring in team queue by the side door. It would drain players from ranked. As such, I don't think it's a good idea.

    of course it is, I want to farm, play and have fun with guildies in PvP, is that too much to ask from a MMO?

    Its also a suggestion to get rid of those nasty pip farmers from ranked that players whine so much about.

    its a win win

    It's too much to ask when it comes at the expense of pounding solo players and others, yes.

    which is why the question is being asked to put them in unranked, where it's not just solo players.

    Ranked has the solo players, don't get too confused now :heart:

    Do not ruin unranked by bringing it down to the level of kitten ranked is at. Ranked was ruined by many steps from making pvp a pve farm to stale boring pvp and making it duo que.

    Yeah its "solo" or "duo" in ranked but it's just one giant wintrade game. Who can wintrade and match manipulate to the top!?

    Sorry unranked is the last good thing about pvp. Let all the trash players play for "top" on the cheaterboard. Keep the trash out of unranked.

    I'm asking to bring a little bit of PIPS into unranked, not the leaderboard.

    Ranked can keep the leaderboard and all that comes with it like win trading n such.

    It's not a bad idea to separate the PIP farmers from Rank farmers is it?

    I dunno, maybe it's better to touch up on this subject again once the whole player base can fit on the leaderboards.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:
    Please no. And the reason I say this is that: 1. Unranked is used as a code testing ground by the devs and; 2. As a player testing ground for builds. So if you end up adding more value to the game mode you remove that aspect adding more ill-will to both. Since ranked already will attempt to balance teams and add pips, why not play there if pips are your goal?

    Edit: Reading thru full thread, if your goal is to hang with other guildies I see it more, but they would have to have it at a much reduced rate to account for the difference in MM and choosing your own team.

    I'd honestly be fine with only getting 1-3 PIPS a win...
    I don't want to take value away from rank either.

    If we still haven't finalized the trial of duo queue after 6 seasons then I doubt we will get our team queues back which is why I propose an alternate idea to help keep the population up. I didn't care for rank with team queue at all but they removed it because it was unfair to solo queue players which is fair enough, but atleast compensate us a little, we were playing MMO with friends after all and having fun until it was taken away. We were playing the game the way it was designed, we didn't scream at Anet to change it but we did miss out because of the ones who did.


    I'm just looking to post in guild chat "who wants to farm thier ascended in PvP?" then proceed to have fun with guildies in a match and then use that opportunity to get PvE/WvW focused players hooked onto PvP like it was done to me and like I did to about 10-15 players when we used to have active team queues...

    We didn't win a lot either, too busy playing golf with people on banish guards and what ever, hunting that thief for lolz so to respond to some other peoples posts in this thread, when I say farm, it's not to farm players, it's to simply farm some ascended gear and have fun friends....

    My realistic situation is that I couldn't get a 5 man team at this point anymore, but we always have enough for a 3 man team....
    The big issue is that 1 is above the duo cut off point, the other is low silver and when I bother to fix my ranks decay I'm high gold but we have trouble queing together in ranked due to our skill differences so it's naturally splitting us up... 3 is what we have left too, we had more but due to the system splitting us, people have evidently decided to play other games and I can see that because the community I was apart of before the removal of team queue are all linked with each other on Facebook.

    TLDR: I care about this game, I just wish the devs and players did too, seems too many care about their arbitrary rank.

    I hear you, close to the same, would love to play the AT tournament with guildies but its hard to get 5 on in PvP at a time is rough since we are PvX. Just worried that adding more pressure on unranked might make it more hostile whereas I have seen now people announce they have a test build and others' reply, that's fine, its unranked. I could see it more with a fixed deflation between ranked and unranked though. That said more of a variety would also be nice so there are pro's and cons. In an ideal world DeathMatch and Stronghold would also still be in Ranked with ways to opt in and out of all three modes. At least to me.

    Side note, It is is a game mode that people should be rewarded for their performance, ranked or unranked. I think that the reward logic in general could use some review in either +/- rating, pips or reward. If you have players busting tail than give them props. Hate to see it when a player rocked it but the rest of the team had a rougher time and they also go down with the ship. Wouldn't mind seeing some weighted value added there. Out performed the team, give them props.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well this isnt the worst idea.

    Ranked is more of a "competitive" mode and most people run it for leaderboards anyway (hence the competitive-ness).

    I dont think unranked should get the same # of pips ranked does (maybe 1 less for loss and 2 less for win or something), however its not the worst idea that was pitched in PvP.

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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  • should make reward the same in unranked, but all the cool titles stays in ranked

  • tacoclaw.8251tacoclaw.8251 Member ✭✭

    As a mid level player I have to say I find unranked way more interesting and challenging that ranked. Honest question: what are all you pvpers doing with pips anyway? Why would a pvp player care about rewards like pips? I'm new, so I'm obviously missing something. Please advise.

  • Snellibee.2761Snellibee.2761 Member ✭✭✭

    What if we increase the rewards according to your rank? It would make all these farmers that don't care about their rank actually care

  • Ziggityzog.7389Ziggityzog.7389 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Nooooooooo I love my unranked I dont want it to become the cesspool that is ranked. Let all the wintraders, bots, afk pve reward hunters, and tryhards stay in ranked. Unranked is where the real pvp is away from all that garbage.

    Sadly ranked hasn't been competitive since the win trade wars started in season 6.

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ziggityzog.7389 said:
    Nooooooooo I love my unranked I dont want it to become the cesspool that is ranked. Let all the wintraders, bots, afk pve reward hunters, and tryhards stay in ranked. Unranked is where the real pvp is away from all that garbage.

    Sadly ranked hasn't been competitive since the win trade wars started in season 6.

    They also pour into unranked.

  • Ziggityzog.7389Ziggityzog.7389 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not as much. Soon as the season starts up they all flow into ranked like sewage water.

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    I'd probably leave ranked altogether if they put pips in unranked. Also would be funnier to play whacky builds from time to time without worrying I'd lose my 2 pip bonus from plat (how would they go about this anyway?)

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