Bring back old stability, resistance, questions, balance — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Bring back old stability, resistance, questions, balance

Ghost.7032Ghost.7032 Member ✭✭

Dear Anet

In the old days of WvW there was some good balance. Awesome fights.
Now sadly there is 0% of balance for fights. What WvW is now 80% scourge and 20% Warriors bubbles.
In the old days the WvW was atleast playable for each class. Now it's only with few that has stupid range bomb.

The fights are getting boring, bomb, back off, bomb oh wait pull and ping snipe...
The HoT was still fun cause there was atleast balance of healing, remove condi against range bomb.
Now you just have to dodge and hope to God you won't die in 1 second. Then I am wondering why Firebrand is useful, while it's frontline healer.
Yes Firebrand can heal good but heal vs 10x corruption, condition, DPS, Bubble, Ping snipe, oh don't forget resistance can converted into immoblize lol...
Then saying fair balanced fight?

1) Bring back the old stability so frontline won't get cc bombed right away. So that we have chance to survive more then 1 second.
Sample, 25 stack stability, removed 1 sec. Spam stability every second, removed every second... What is the piont then? lol.

2) Bring back the resistance how it was in the beginning. Not converted into immoblize. Or we should have atleast something for few seconds that can not be removed vs condi.
Cause we deal now with DPS and Condi at the same time. While frontline as no chance..

And yes we have tested out defense bomb included with reduced damage, reduced condi damage. But it has just no kitten piont since wvw is now 90% DPS, Condi scourge blob or warrior bubbles.. The best we can do is use siege and hope we don't die..

Cause you did nerfed FB and some other support stuff. But buff the damage? I don't get your logic sometimes Anet..
If you did not touched FB and support and buff the damage then I think there will be still a good balance.

But now it has 0%... If you touch support then you should touch damage as well instead buffing it.

Sorry for my bad english.

Greetings.

Comments

  • Optimator.3589Optimator.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Clearly your comp is inadequate. You don't have enough FBs and scourges to match the enemy. Didn't you watch the 15v15 GvG tourney? Most guilds were bringing 5 or 6 of each, meaning out of 15 players, 10-12 were scourge and FB. The only way to beat the well and shade spikes(besides moving out of them) is to bring a buttload of stab/healing to overcome them.

    I do agree, old stab was far better than this kitten we have now, and resist corrupting into immob is one of the stupidest design decisions ever made for WvW.

    REDUCE NA TO 3 TIERS

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think we get one of these threads every week. First, immobilize should be removed from the game period. Second, much as I miss the old hammer train days the old stability was too strong and the current version is more acceptable and balanced. CC spam is a problem, and stun breaks need to be updated.

    Somewhere chasing bags....

  • Strages.2950Strages.2950 Member ✭✭✭

    Resistance to immobilize is insane I agree. Its not bad enough that the boon is flipped, it actually traps you in the red circles. /facepalm

  • If all shouts would remove 1 condition on use as well as give 1 stack of stability , it would potentially help cut down on the condition bombs. I agree that conditions needed a buff in the past, but with the implementation of gear that increases condition duration, Resistance is quite useless especially when it can be corrupted and removed. Even with the slight adjustments to reaper that are more balanced, Scourges should not need to have an over-shield to fight. With necromancer and Reaper however their shroud decreases a lot more rapidly compared to Scourges. If anything should happen immobilize duration should increase as well as the number of condition removals each class can have.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i wonder how you think old stability will change a thing. i mean that also could be corrupted / stripped.

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    i wonder how you think old stability will change a thing. i mean that also could be corrupted / stripped.

    Nostalgia is a crutch.

    Somewhere chasing bags....

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    i wonder how you think old stability will change a thing. i mean that also could be corrupted / stripped.

    This.
    They would need to turn stability into an effect (like superspeed) for it to have as much of an impact as it used to.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger main before it was viable.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The easiest way to solve all this without having to start creating convoluted balance changes which will break WvW by spawning dhuum CM everytime a boon is given is to remove sand savant.

    Change the trait so it now longer gives massive shades and most of these issues will be gone.

    “But it will delete scourge” - if your class needs a single trait to be viable, in this case completely broken and mandatory across the entire game mode, then it is clearly broken and needs changing.

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:
    The easiest way to solve all this without having to start creating convoluted balance changes which will break WvW by spawning dhuum CM everytime a boon is given is to remove sand savant.

    Change the trait so it now longer gives massive shades and most of these issues will be gone.

    “But it will delete scourge” - if your class needs a single trait to be viable, in this case completely broken and mandatory across the entire game mode, then it is clearly broken and needs changing.

    Have you ever played necro?

    Somewhere chasing bags....

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @X T D.6458 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    The easiest way to solve all this without having to start creating convoluted balance changes which will break WvW by spawning dhuum CM everytime a boon is given is to remove sand savant.

    Change the trait so it now longer gives massive shades and most of these issues will be gone.

    “But it will delete scourge” - if your class needs a single trait to be viable, in this case completely broken and mandatory across the entire game mode, then it is clearly broken and needs changing.

    Have you ever played necro?

    Yes and scourge since inception has completely dictated the meta across PvP and WvW since PoF. There hasn’t been any other class that broken since bunker mesmer, that says a lot.

    It used to matter what you used and when with necro, now you just vomit everywhere where mashing F1-5, to say it’s brain dead would be an insult to brain dead people.

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So perhaps change some of the boons to effects would solve some of the scourge cancer in WvW? The current fights in WvW are not nearly as fun as the old days, but then again the melee train just had a similar problem that it was overused too.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Blast more light fields.

    "Is there pvp stuff for this?" "Absolutely, eh we actually have a new armor set coming soon."
    "From the back of the room!, the one pvp fan! we got him! WoAH!"
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • hunkamania.7561hunkamania.7561 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why so people keep asking for old stability? It will not make a difference at all.

    Ferguson's Crossing Server Leader

    WVW LEADER

    VR

  • TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭

    How about giving everyone in wvw an empty break bar, and gaining the stability boon fills the bar. Incoming CC depletes the bar and the bar also depletes over time.

  • Ghost.7032Ghost.7032 Member ✭✭

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    So perhaps change some of the boons to effects would solve some of the scourge cancer in WvW? The current fights in WvW are not nearly as fun as the old days, but then again the melee train just had a similar problem that it was overused too.

    That is true but atleast you could make a balance with that from dps ele, necro.
    You can find youtube videos.
    Well skilled ele's, necro's were able to take down the frontlines. But the fights were atleast longer like 10 minutes fights. But now we try to find a balance vs whats happening now and there is just no dam way. The only balance there is to be the same number blob as them. But some servers does not have those numbers. That's why for zergs it's not possible to fight vs scourge, warrior bubbles blob, revenant blob.
    And the fights end like 5 seconds. Whats the fun about that? These days doesn't matter how skilled you are. If you face a blob then you have no chance. In the old days you still had a chance. That's the difference.

  • Kirnale.5914Kirnale.5914 Member ✭✭✭

    Best way to address the balance issue is to make toughness reduce crit damage and vitality to reduce the condi duration (feel free to image the X% number). Best way to fix scourge is to remove the circle around them and actually make them rely on their shade placements. In return, you can make them a bit stronger, I don't mind.

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @X T D.6458 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    The easiest way to solve all this without having to start creating convoluted balance changes which will break WvW by spawning dhuum CM everytime a boon is given is to remove sand savant.

    Change the trait so it now longer gives massive shades and most of these issues will be gone.

    “But it will delete scourge” - if your class needs a single trait to be viable, in this case completely broken and mandatory across the entire game mode, then it is clearly broken and needs changing.

    Have you ever played necro?

    Yes and scourge since inception has completely dictated the meta across PvP and WvW since PoF. There hasn’t been any other class that broken since bunker mesmer, that says a lot.

    It used to matter what you used and when with necro, now you just vomit everywhere where mashing F1-5, to say it’s brain dead would be an insult to brain dead people.

    Now I am not downplaying the strength and impact of Scourge in WvW. It is kind of a double edged sword though. I have said from the beginning that it is a badly constructed spec that encourages spam to win gameplay, but at the same time it along with Spellbreaker were badly needed to counter the broken and godawful boonspam meta.

    Also in regards to Sand Savant...well try running in WvW w/o it and see how effective you are heh. If you are experienced with Necro then you understand it is an awkward class. It has little in terms of self reliance such as stability, mobility, cleanses, stun breaks etc so its best defense is a strong offense along with Shroud/barrier. Necro has always relied on burst rather then sustained damage to be effective, remember core wells necro, deathly chills shouts reaper, and now Scourge.

    Somewhere chasing bags....

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ghost.7032 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    So perhaps change some of the boons to effects would solve some of the scourge cancer in WvW? The current fights in WvW are not nearly as fun as the old days, but then again the melee train just had a similar problem that it was overused too.

    That is true but atleast you could make a balance with that from dps ele, necro.
    You can find youtube videos.
    Well skilled ele's, necro's were able to take down the frontlines. But the fights were atleast longer like 10 minutes fights. But now we try to find a balance vs whats happening now and there is just no dam way. The only balance there is to be the same number blob as them. But some servers does not have those numbers. That's why for zergs it's not possible to fight vs scourge, warrior bubbles blob, revenant blob.
    And the fights end like 5 seconds. Whats the fun about that? These days doesn't matter how skilled you are. If you face a blob then you have no chance. In the old days you still had a chance. That's the difference.

    @hunkamania.7561 said:
    Why so people keep asking for old stability? It will not make a difference at all.

    Maybe because a lot of people blame that nerf for ruining fights, and seem to have rose colored glasses on by ignoring everything else.

    Somewhere chasing bags....

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ghost.7032 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    So perhaps change some of the boons to effects would solve some of the scourge cancer in WvW? The current fights in WvW are not nearly as fun as the old days, but then again the melee train just had a similar problem that it was overused too.

    That is true but atleast you could make a balance with that from dps ele, necro.
    You can find youtube videos.
    Well skilled ele's, necro's were able to take down the frontlines. But the fights were atleast longer like 10 minutes fights. But now we try to find a balance vs whats happening now and there is just no dam way. The only balance there is to be the same number blob as them. But some servers does not have those numbers. That's why for zergs it's not possible to fight vs scourge, warrior bubbles blob, revenant blob.
    And the fights end like 5 seconds. Whats the fun about that? These days doesn't matter how skilled you are. If you face a blob then you have no chance. In the old days you still had a chance. That's the difference.

    A lot of other things have changed, its not just stability. We now have elite specs, condition mechanics were overhauled, we have more boon spam and power creep, more cc/stealth spam. Really its just a mess all around, you can't just assume everything would be the same as in the past by simply changing stability alone.

    There is no going back, as much as I miss those days they are not coming back. Learn, adapt, and move on.

    Somewhere chasing bags....

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Its even as much of a problem that classes like spell braker winds of disenchantment is a hard counter to ele / eng clears. In effect making condi classes stronger even though in it self the spell braker is not a condi class.

    Everything anet has done has only helped condis. Even condi conversion to boon helps condi dmg classes and harms the light condi classes or the build in condi effects of soft cc.

    Anet is blindly balancing the game at this point.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Ghost.7032Ghost.7032 Member ✭✭

    @X T D.6458 said:

    @Ghost.7032 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    So perhaps change some of the boons to effects would solve some of the scourge cancer in WvW? The current fights in WvW are not nearly as fun as the old days, but then again the melee train just had a similar problem that it was overused too.

    That is true but atleast you could make a balance with that from dps ele, necro.
    You can find youtube videos.
    Well skilled ele's, necro's were able to take down the frontlines. But the fights were atleast longer like 10 minutes fights. But now we try to find a balance vs whats happening now and there is just no dam way. The only balance there is to be the same number blob as them. But some servers does not have those numbers. That's why for zergs it's not possible to fight vs scourge, warrior bubbles blob, revenant blob.
    And the fights end like 5 seconds. Whats the fun about that? These days doesn't matter how skilled you are. If you face a blob then you have no chance. In the old days you still had a chance. That's the difference.

    A lot of other things have changed, its not just stability. We now have elite specs, condition mechanics were overhauled, we have more boon spam and power creep, more cc/stealth spam. Really its just a mess all around, you can't just assume everything would be the same as in the past by simply changing stability alone.

    There is no going back, as much as I miss those days they are not coming back. Learn, adapt, and move on.

    True old days will never come back. But moving on to get rekt in 1 second fight that there is 0% change to fight outnumbert? Nah thanks... i do agree change to new things are good and not get stuck in the same. But they should do something by now instead making it worse.
    This is not fun at all. Only thing we can do is use siege or try to call more numbers while some servers doesn't have it...

  • Ghost.7032Ghost.7032 Member ✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Its even as much of a problem that classes like spell braker winds of disenchantment is a hard counter to ele / eng clears. In effect making condi classes stronger even though in it self the spell braker is not a condi class.

    Everything anet has done has only helped condis. Even condi conversion to boon helps condi dmg classes and harms the light condi classes or the build in condi effects of soft cc.

    Anet is blindly balancing the game at this point.

    Works good with the same number vs your enemy group. Try that in 1 second by outnumbert blob your facing. They run you over and even you tried all of that. We used damage reduced, condi damage reduced. We lived max 3 seconds and done. Sample we run 20+ vs 40+.
    40+ sourges and maybe 3+ warrior bubbles. The warrioe bubbles are not the problem. But the damage from sourge or revs are. Cause once our boons are gone then we get 2x more condi and dps damage from other classes. No balance to handel that.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ghost.7032 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Its even as much of a problem that classes like spell braker winds of disenchantment is a hard counter to ele / eng clears. In effect making condi classes stronger even though in it self the spell braker is not a condi class.

    Everything anet has done has only helped condis. Even condi conversion to boon helps condi dmg classes and harms the light condi classes or the build in condi effects of soft cc.

    Anet is blindly balancing the game at this point.

    Works good with the same number vs your enemy group. Try that in 1 second by outnumbert blob your facing. They run you over and even you tried all of that. We used damage reduced, condi damage reduced. We lived max 3 seconds and done. Sample we run 20+ vs 40+.
    40+ sourges and maybe 3+ warrior bubbles. The warrioe bubbles are not the problem. But the damage from sourge or revs are. Cause once our boons are gone then we get 2x more condi and dps damage from other classes. No balance to handel that.

    Well what going on is the the lack of real though to balancing so when we see the update to the current boons (and what they become when convinced into condi) its not odd to see other things like winds of disenchantment doing something that it should not be doing most likely.

    Its all about the added effects to updates and just how long it takes them to react to how things work out. So yes if your getting hit by 40 + ppl you should die but if you have effects that are made for one thing but now effects something comply different is suggesting of lack of oversight of the balancing team and a real lack of leadership.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @X T D.6458 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @X T D.6458 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    The easiest way to solve all this without having to start creating convoluted balance changes which will break WvW by spawning dhuum CM everytime a boon is given is to remove sand savant.

    Change the trait so it now longer gives massive shades and most of these issues will be gone.

    “But it will delete scourge” - if your class needs a single trait to be viable, in this case completely broken and mandatory across the entire game mode, then it is clearly broken and needs changing.

    Have you ever played necro?

    Yes and scourge since inception has completely dictated the meta across PvP and WvW since PoF. There hasn’t been any other class that broken since bunker mesmer, that says a lot.

    It used to matter what you used and when with necro, now you just vomit everywhere where mashing F1-5, to say it’s brain dead would be an insult to brain dead people.

    Now I am not downplaying the strength and impact of Scourge in WvW. It is kind of a double edged sword though. I have said from the beginning that it is a badly constructed spec that encourages spam to win gameplay, but at the same time it along with Spellbreaker were badly needed to counter the broken and godawful boonspam meta.

    Also in regards to Sand Savant...well try running in WvW w/o it and see how effective you are heh. If you are experienced with Necro then you understand it is an awkward class. It has little in terms of self reliance such as stability, mobility, cleanses, stun breaks etc so its best defense is a strong offense along with Shroud/barrier. Necro has always relied on burst rather then sustained damage to be effective, remember core wells necro, deathly chills shouts reaper, and now Scourge.

    Yes I know without Sand Savant Scourge is a lot weaker however it has stab now, it cleanses conditions on barrier if you want, it converts a condition on F2 and it has a lot of barrier. Scourge will still have AoE damage through torch, corrupts through sand swell and trail of anguish, corruption well if wanted it’s just they won’t be the AoE pulsing monstrosity that makes the game so horrible to play.

    Then if mini shades aren’t good enough ANet can properly address it, I’d even say they could undo the nerf to path of corruption. However the core of the problem is the complete disparity between big and little shades where one is breaking several game modes and the other is used so little everyone gets confused by the small circles.

  • Ghost.7032Ghost.7032 Member ✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Ghost.7032 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Its even as much of a problem that classes like spell braker winds of disenchantment is a hard counter to ele / eng clears. In effect making condi classes stronger even though in it self the spell braker is not a condi class.

    Everything anet has done has only helped condis. Even condi conversion to boon helps condi dmg classes and harms the light condi classes or the build in condi effects of soft cc.

    Anet is blindly balancing the game at this point.

    Works good with the same number vs your enemy group. Try that in 1 second by outnumbert blob your facing. They run you over and even you tried all of that. We used damage reduced, condi damage reduced. We lived max 3 seconds and done. Sample we run 20+ vs 40+.
    40+ sourges and maybe 3+ warrior bubbles. The warrioe bubbles are not the problem. But the damage from sourge or revs are. Cause once our boons are gone then we get 2x more condi and dps damage from other classes. No balance to handel that.

    Well what going on is the the lack of real though to balancing so when we see the update to the current boons (and what they become when convinced into condi) its not odd to see other things like winds of disenchantment doing something that it should not be doing most likely.

    Its all about the added effects to updates and just how long it takes them to react to how things work out. So yes if your getting hit by 40 + ppl you should die but if you have effects that are made for one thing but now effects something comply different is suggesting of lack of oversight of the balancing team and a real lack of leadership.

    Ok i'll try to make screenshots or even a video soon and i hope you'll understand. Our team and leadership is good and trained. We did outnumbert fights many times. We won some of it. But now lately we lose every fight cause of the stupid bombs that is been dropped. We used choke pionts, open field fight, used defense bomb, used organised bomb, quickness to bomb 1 second hard, damage reduced, condi reduced. Healing. Nothing is working so far. When we dodge or moving our tail gets cc of condi, cripple. Our stability has no use cause in 1 second you'll get 3x wells corruption. We tried everything and no piont how teamwork or leadership is. You have 0% chance if your facing outnumber group with necro, revs, warrios.

    Yes you can fight with same number as the enemy has. But some servers doesn't have the numbers what makes it hard for zergs. Yes we can use siege but would be dam boring using it every day lol.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 30, 2018

    @Optimator.3589 said:
    Clearly your comp is inadequate. You don't have enough FBs and scourges to match the enemy. Didn't you watch the 15v15 GvG tourney? Most guilds were bringing 5 or 6 of each, meaning out of 15 players, 10-12 were scourge and FB. The only way to beat the well and shade spikes(besides moving out of them) is to bring a buttload of stab/healing to overcome them.

    I do agree, old stab was far better than this kitten we have now, and resist corrupting into immob is one of the stupidest design decisions ever made for WvW.

    Scourge skills are bad designed/iterated, i think it is the main issue.

    It promotes casual gameplay w/o poor skill lvl but with high reward when stacked more than enemy has, reason 60-80% of group compositions are mostly fb's and scrouges.

    It is idiotic.

    EDIT: Problem with this game are some classes skills are quite idiotic, and how developers want that class to make casuals and bad players feel strong, rather than the balance itself over skill coeficients values.

  • Samnang.1879Samnang.1879 Member ✭✭✭✭

    what i dont understand is... why cant we dodge when immobilized? it's not like we're petrified... anet is _____

    Anet: give us in-game customizable human NPC companion please
    Please, no more balance changes, or at least reset our gears so we don't have to waste gold changing gears every time.
    Please have option to not receive bloodstone dusts, empyreal fragments, dragonite etc

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Samnang.1879 said:
    what i dont understand is... why cant we dodge when immobilized? it's not like we're petrified... anet is _____

    ill put some chackles and bind them to the floor or tie your legs and then ill punch u or kick you to see if u can really evade :D :D :D

  • Chorazin.4107Chorazin.4107 Member ✭✭✭

    The game still functions okish in the small scale, but as soon as you hit like 10+ it's 90% scourges and FB's because pushing on top of 5 scourges to do your melee dmg is suicide. So there goes any class that is melee based/specced in WvW outside of invulns on warriors or pulsing resistance classes(warriors).

    So you resort to maybe looking at rng DPS, but the FB's have projectile hate, I guess it's why Herald is popular you can do your DPS from 1200 rng outside the Scourge bombs and CoR, PS, DtH ignore all the projectile hate.

    WvW is in a pretty kitten state tbf, it's all epilepsy inducing screens of pulsing circles in any sort of large scale encounter.

    [lion] - [tRex] - [nâh/UwU/yep]

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ghost.7032 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Ghost.7032 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Its even as much of a problem that classes like spell braker winds of disenchantment is a hard counter to ele / eng clears. In effect making condi classes stronger even though in it self the spell braker is not a condi class.

    Everything anet has done has only helped condis. Even condi conversion to boon helps condi dmg classes and harms the light condi classes or the build in condi effects of soft cc.

    Anet is blindly balancing the game at this point.

    Works good with the same number vs your enemy group. Try that in 1 second by outnumbert blob your facing. They run you over and even you tried all of that. We used damage reduced, condi damage reduced. We lived max 3 seconds and done. Sample we run 20+ vs 40+.
    40+ sourges and maybe 3+ warrior bubbles. The warrioe bubbles are not the problem. But the damage from sourge or revs are. Cause once our boons are gone then we get 2x more condi and dps damage from other classes. No balance to handel that.

    Well what going on is the the lack of real though to balancing so when we see the update to the current boons (and what they become when convinced into condi) its not odd to see other things like winds of disenchantment doing something that it should not be doing most likely.

    Its all about the added effects to updates and just how long it takes them to react to how things work out. So yes if your getting hit by 40 + ppl you should die but if you have effects that are made for one thing but now effects something comply different is suggesting of lack of oversight of the balancing team and a real lack of leadership.

    Ok i'll try to make screenshots or even a video soon and i hope you'll understand. Our team and leadership is good and trained. We did outnumbert fights many times. We won some of it. But now lately we lose every fight cause of the stupid bombs that is been dropped. We used choke pionts, open field fight, used defense bomb, used organised bomb, quickness to bomb 1 second hard, damage reduced, condi reduced. Healing. Nothing is working so far. When we dodge or moving our tail gets cc of condi, cripple. Our stability has no use cause in 1 second you'll get 3x wells corruption. We tried everything and no piont how teamwork or leadership is. You have 0% chance if your facing outnumber group with necro, revs, warrios.

    Yes you can fight with same number as the enemy has. But some servers doesn't have the numbers what makes it hard for zergs. Yes we can use siege but would be dam boring using it every day lol.

    Talking about Anet and there balancing team.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ghost.7032 said:

    @X T D.6458 said:

    @Ghost.7032 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    So perhaps change some of the boons to effects would solve some of the scourge cancer in WvW? The current fights in WvW are not nearly as fun as the old days, but then again the melee train just had a similar problem that it was overused too.

    That is true but atleast you could make a balance with that from dps ele, necro.
    You can find youtube videos.
    Well skilled ele's, necro's were able to take down the frontlines. But the fights were atleast longer like 10 minutes fights. But now we try to find a balance vs whats happening now and there is just no dam way. The only balance there is to be the same number blob as them. But some servers does not have those numbers. That's why for zergs it's not possible to fight vs scourge, warrior bubbles blob, revenant blob.
    And the fights end like 5 seconds. Whats the fun about that? These days doesn't matter how skilled you are. If you face a blob then you have no chance. In the old days you still had a chance. That's the difference.

    A lot of other things have changed, its not just stability. We now have elite specs, condition mechanics were overhauled, we have more boon spam and power creep, more cc/stealth spam. Really its just a mess all around, you can't just assume everything would be the same as in the past by simply changing stability alone.

    There is no going back, as much as I miss those days they are not coming back. Learn, adapt, and move on.

    True old days will never come back. But moving on to get rekt in 1 second fight that there is 0% change to fight outnumbert? Nah thanks... i do agree change to new things are good and not get stuck in the same. But they should do something by now instead making it worse.
    This is not fun at all. Only thing we can do is use siege or try to call more numbers while some servers doesn't have it...

    If you die in 1 second its usually due to bad positioning and not reacting fast enough, it happens. There is a lot more damage and more cc's then we have had in the past but it does not mean that it is impossible to stay alive.

    Somewhere chasing bags....

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chorazin.4107 said:
    The game still functions okish in the small scale, but as soon as you hit like 10+ it's 90% scourges and FB's because pushing on top of 5 scourges to do your melee dmg is suicide. So there goes any class that is melee based/specced in WvW outside of invulns on warriors or pulsing resistance classes(warriors).

    So you resort to maybe looking at rng DPS, but the FB's have projectile hate, I guess it's why Herald is popular you can do your DPS from 1200 rng outside the Scourge bombs and CoR, PS, DtH ignore all the projectile hate.

    WvW is in a pretty kitten state tbf, it's all epilepsy inducing screens of pulsing circles in any sort of large scale encounter.

    If anything small scale fights really demonstrates just how broken a class is in regards to sustain/burst builds. Spellbreaker sustain, thief stealth spam and mobility, mesmer everything etc.

    Somewhere chasing bags....

  • Am I the only person who played heavily for the year or two after release, stopped for a few years, came back recently and still sees all the same patterns in WvW? The ebb and flow of zerg vs. zerg fights looked almost identical, only there are more red circles on the ground now. Zergs ball into a fist, dive in as far as they feel they can, then hope their fist is still tight when they back out to ball up again. Both sides pick off as many stragglers as they can, some fights happen on the wings, etc.

    Even small roaming fights feel the same, for the most part. Mesmers/Thieves try to blow you up out of nowhere and use active defense to run away at the first hint of it not working. Rangers try to mow you down in Zerk gear from range, then use as much active defense on their alt weapon slot when you get close before switching back to try to catch you off guard with another LB #2. Every once in a while you'll see someone playing something else, and it's a treat, but then you see two Thieves roaming together and you remember what the good ol' days were like.

    Old stability was hilariously garbage design, and that was before boon removal/corruption was seemingly such a widespread thing. Resistance turning into immob is just funny to me, as well as seeming appropriate as a high-risk high-reward style boon.

    In my opinion, though, all of these things are just symptoms of the problem: boons and conditions both are a dime a dozen. The system is very arguably flawed at its core, and those flaws, no matter what they are, will shine brighter and brighter the more people you stack into a zerg.

    What was the old GWEN ratio from before when it came to GvG? What percentage was G, W, E, and N? I didn't play much in HoT, so maybe it was a golden age of GvG composition variability, but I'm guessing we're dealing with some rose-colored glasses here.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cogbyrn.7283 said:
    Am I the only person who played heavily for the year or two after release, stopped for a few years, came back recently and still sees all the same patterns in WvW? The ebb and flow of zerg vs. zerg fights looked almost identical, only there are more red circles on the ground now. Zergs ball into a fist, dive in as far as they feel they can, then hope their fist is still tight when they back out to ball up again. Both sides pick off as many stragglers as they can, some fights happen on the wings, etc.

    Even small roaming fights feel the same, for the most part. Mesmers/Thieves try to blow you up out of nowhere and use active defense to run away at the first hint of it not working. Rangers try to mow you down in Zerk gear from range, then use as much active defense on their alt weapon slot when you get close before switching back to try to catch you off guard with another LB #2. Every once in a while you'll see someone playing something else, and it's a treat, but then you see two Thieves roaming together and you remember what the good ol' days were like.

    Old stability was hilariously garbage design, and that was before boon removal/corruption was seemingly such a widespread thing. Resistance turning into immob is just funny to me, as well as seeming appropriate as a high-risk high-reward style boon.

    In my opinion, though, all of these things are just symptoms of the problem: boons and conditions both are a dime a dozen. The system is very arguably flawed at its core, and those flaws, no matter what they are, will shine brighter and brighter the more people you stack into a zerg.

    What was the old GWEN ratio from before when it came to GvG? What percentage was G, W, E, and N? I didn't play much in HoT, so maybe it was a golden age of GvG composition variability, but I'm guessing we're dealing with some rose-colored glasses here.

    Often two necros, two guards and maybe a warrior per party.

    Ele usually in a backline party with some Mesmer thrown in.

    In a good day, as an Ele, I might get something me stab, but I had cantrips to survive.

    30-40% guard and 30-40% Necro.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Cogbyrn.7283 said:
    Am I the only person who played heavily for the year or two after release, stopped for a few years, came back recently and still sees all the same patterns in WvW? The ebb and flow of zerg vs. zerg fights looked almost identical, only there are more red circles on the ground now. Zergs ball into a fist, dive in as far as they feel they can, then hope their fist is still tight when they back out to ball up again. Both sides pick off as many stragglers as they can, some fights happen on the wings, etc.

    Even small roaming fights feel the same, for the most part. Mesmers/Thieves try to blow you up out of nowhere and use active defense to run away at the first hint of it not working. Rangers try to mow you down in Zerk gear from range, then use as much active defense on their alt weapon slot when you get close before switching back to try to catch you off guard with another LB #2. Every once in a while you'll see someone playing something else, and it's a treat, but then you see two Thieves roaming together and you remember what the good ol' days were like.

    Old stability was hilariously garbage design, and that was before boon removal/corruption was seemingly such a widespread thing. Resistance turning into immob is just funny to me, as well as seeming appropriate as a high-risk high-reward style boon.

    In my opinion, though, all of these things are just symptoms of the problem: boons and conditions both are a dime a dozen. The system is very arguably flawed at its core, and those flaws, no matter what they are, will shine brighter and brighter the more people you stack into a zerg.

    What was the old GWEN ratio from before when it came to GvG? What percentage was G, W, E, and N? I didn't play much in HoT, so maybe it was a golden age of GvG composition variability, but I'm guessing we're dealing with some rose-colored glasses here.

    Often two necros, two guards and maybe a warrior per party.

    Ele usually in a backline party with some Mesmer thrown in.

    In a good day, as an Ele, I might get something me stab, but I had cantrips to survive.

    30-40% guard and 30-40% Necro.

    Well the thing is ele is more then a back line class and with the old stab it had support stab (all be it low duration) was usable. It was simply not updated to fill the new stab. There a lot of 1/2 balances in this game where only part of the skills and effects where updated to current effects and we NEED to old Anet accountable to updating every thing.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Cogbyrn.7283 said:
    Am I the only person who played heavily for the year or two after release, stopped for a few years, came back recently and still sees all the same patterns in WvW? The ebb and flow of zerg vs. zerg fights looked almost identical, only there are more red circles on the ground now. Zergs ball into a fist, dive in as far as they feel they can, then hope their fist is still tight when they back out to ball up again. Both sides pick off as many stragglers as they can, some fights happen on the wings, etc.

    Even small roaming fights feel the same, for the most part. Mesmers/Thieves try to blow you up out of nowhere and use active defense to run away at the first hint of it not working. Rangers try to mow you down in Zerk gear from range, then use as much active defense on their alt weapon slot when you get close before switching back to try to catch you off guard with another LB #2. Every once in a while you'll see someone playing something else, and it's a treat, but then you see two Thieves roaming together and you remember what the good ol' days were like.

    Old stability was hilariously garbage design, and that was before boon removal/corruption was seemingly such a widespread thing. Resistance turning into immob is just funny to me, as well as seeming appropriate as a high-risk high-reward style boon.

    In my opinion, though, all of these things are just symptoms of the problem: boons and conditions both are a dime a dozen. The system is very arguably flawed at its core, and those flaws, no matter what they are, will shine brighter and brighter the more people you stack into a zerg.

    What was the old GWEN ratio from before when it came to GvG? What percentage was G, W, E, and N? I didn't play much in HoT, so maybe it was a golden age of GvG composition variability, but I'm guessing we're dealing with some rose-colored glasses here.

    Often two necros, two guards and maybe a warrior per party.

    Ele usually in a backline party with some Mesmer thrown in.

    In a good day, as an Ele, I might get something me stab, but I had cantrips to survive.

    30-40% guard and 30-40% Necro.

    Well the thing is ele is more then a back line class and with the old stab it had support stab (all be it low duration) was usable. It was simply not updated to fill the new stab. There a lot of 1/2 balances in this game where only part of the skills and effects where updated to current effects and we NEED to old Anet accountable to updating every thing.

    It was asked what the percentage of classes in GWEN from 'teh olde daze'

    Yes, Ele could use some stab, but is not used as much in the current META.

    I suppose what the person I was quoting was trying to bring out was that the old meta comp wasn't a huge difference from now: 2/5 scourge (Necro) 2/5 firebrands (guard) with a smattering of warrior (Spellbreaker with bubble) rev and weaver/tempest.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Cogbyrn.7283Cogbyrn.7283 Member ✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Cogbyrn.7283 said:
    Am I the only person who played heavily for the year or two after release, stopped for a few years, came back recently and still sees all the same patterns in WvW? The ebb and flow of zerg vs. zerg fights looked almost identical, only there are more red circles on the ground now. Zergs ball into a fist, dive in as far as they feel they can, then hope their fist is still tight when they back out to ball up again. Both sides pick off as many stragglers as they can, some fights happen on the wings, etc.

    Even small roaming fights feel the same, for the most part. Mesmers/Thieves try to blow you up out of nowhere and use active defense to run away at the first hint of it not working. Rangers try to mow you down in Zerk gear from range, then use as much active defense on their alt weapon slot when you get close before switching back to try to catch you off guard with another LB #2. Every once in a while you'll see someone playing something else, and it's a treat, but then you see two Thieves roaming together and you remember what the good ol' days were like.

    Old stability was hilariously garbage design, and that was before boon removal/corruption was seemingly such a widespread thing. Resistance turning into immob is just funny to me, as well as seeming appropriate as a high-risk high-reward style boon.

    In my opinion, though, all of these things are just symptoms of the problem: boons and conditions both are a dime a dozen. The system is very arguably flawed at its core, and those flaws, no matter what they are, will shine brighter and brighter the more people you stack into a zerg.

    What was the old GWEN ratio from before when it came to GvG? What percentage was G, W, E, and N? I didn't play much in HoT, so maybe it was a golden age of GvG composition variability, but I'm guessing we're dealing with some rose-colored glasses here.

    Often two necros, two guards and maybe a warrior per party.

    Ele usually in a backline party with some Mesmer thrown in.

    In a good day, as an Ele, I might get something me stab, but I had cantrips to survive.

    30-40% guard and 30-40% Necro.

    Well the thing is ele is more then a back line class and with the old stab it had support stab (all be it low duration) was usable. It was simply not updated to fill the new stab. There a lot of 1/2 balances in this game where only part of the skills and effects where updated to current effects and we NEED to old Anet accountable to updating every thing.

    It was asked what the percentage of classes in GWEN from 'teh olde daze'

    Yes, Ele could use some stab, but is not used as much in the current META.

    I suppose what the person I was quoting was trying to bring out was that the old meta comp wasn't a huge difference from now: 2/5 scourge (Necro) 2/5 firebrands (guard) with a smattering of warrior (Spellbreaker with bubble) rev and weaver/tempest.

    You suppose correctly. One of the first few posts complained about lack of diversity, and the diversity they mentioned sounded exactly like how it's always been.j

    The past is so frequently remembered as better than the present that I have to be that guy when I can be. People just didn't see the Necros because they were back/midline dropping wells instead of frontline charging their face. At least back in vanilla.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Cogbyrn.7283 said:
    Am I the only person who played heavily for the year or two after release, stopped for a few years, came back recently and still sees all the same patterns in WvW? The ebb and flow of zerg vs. zerg fights looked almost identical, only there are more red circles on the ground now. Zergs ball into a fist, dive in as far as they feel they can, then hope their fist is still tight when they back out to ball up again. Both sides pick off as many stragglers as they can, some fights happen on the wings, etc.

    Even small roaming fights feel the same, for the most part. Mesmers/Thieves try to blow you up out of nowhere and use active defense to run away at the first hint of it not working. Rangers try to mow you down in Zerk gear from range, then use as much active defense on their alt weapon slot when you get close before switching back to try to catch you off guard with another LB #2. Every once in a while you'll see someone playing something else, and it's a treat, but then you see two Thieves roaming together and you remember what the good ol' days were like.

    Old stability was hilariously garbage design, and that was before boon removal/corruption was seemingly such a widespread thing. Resistance turning into immob is just funny to me, as well as seeming appropriate as a high-risk high-reward style boon.

    In my opinion, though, all of these things are just symptoms of the problem: boons and conditions both are a dime a dozen. The system is very arguably flawed at its core, and those flaws, no matter what they are, will shine brighter and brighter the more people you stack into a zerg.

    What was the old GWEN ratio from before when it came to GvG? What percentage was G, W, E, and N? I didn't play much in HoT, so maybe it was a golden age of GvG composition variability, but I'm guessing we're dealing with some rose-colored glasses here.

    Often two necros, two guards and maybe a warrior per party.

    Ele usually in a backline party with some Mesmer thrown in.

    In a good day, as an Ele, I might get something me stab, but I had cantrips to survive.

    30-40% guard and 30-40% Necro.

    Well the thing is ele is more then a back line class and with the old stab it had support stab (all be it low duration) was usable. It was simply not updated to fill the new stab. There a lot of 1/2 balances in this game where only part of the skills and effects where updated to current effects and we NEED to old Anet accountable to updating every thing.

    It was asked what the percentage of classes in GWEN from 'teh olde daze'

    Yes, Ele could use some stab, but is not used as much in the current META.

    I suppose what the person I was quoting was trying to bring out was that the old meta comp wasn't a huge difference from now: 2/5 scourge (Necro) 2/5 firebrands (guard) with a smattering of warrior (Spellbreaker with bubble) rev and weaver/tempest.

    In the old days a thf could gank your eles and necro all day long that dose not happen any more. The old meta was far better then the mess we have now and it has a lot to do with boons update.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Cogbyrn.7283 said:
    Am I the only person who played heavily for the year or two after release, stopped for a few years, came back recently and still sees all the same patterns in WvW? The ebb and flow of zerg vs. zerg fights looked almost identical, only there are more red circles on the ground now. Zergs ball into a fist, dive in as far as they feel they can, then hope their fist is still tight when they back out to ball up again. Both sides pick off as many stragglers as they can, some fights happen on the wings, etc.

    Even small roaming fights feel the same, for the most part. Mesmers/Thieves try to blow you up out of nowhere and use active defense to run away at the first hint of it not working. Rangers try to mow you down in Zerk gear from range, then use as much active defense on their alt weapon slot when you get close before switching back to try to catch you off guard with another LB #2. Every once in a while you'll see someone playing something else, and it's a treat, but then you see two Thieves roaming together and you remember what the good ol' days were like.

    Old stability was hilariously garbage design, and that was before boon removal/corruption was seemingly such a widespread thing. Resistance turning into immob is just funny to me, as well as seeming appropriate as a high-risk high-reward style boon.

    In my opinion, though, all of these things are just symptoms of the problem: boons and conditions both are a dime a dozen. The system is very arguably flawed at its core, and those flaws, no matter what they are, will shine brighter and brighter the more people you stack into a zerg.

    What was the old GWEN ratio from before when it came to GvG? What percentage was G, W, E, and N? I didn't play much in HoT, so maybe it was a golden age of GvG composition variability, but I'm guessing we're dealing with some rose-colored glasses here.

    Often two necros, two guards and maybe a warrior per party.

    Ele usually in a backline party with some Mesmer thrown in.

    In a good day, as an Ele, I might get something me stab, but I had cantrips to survive.

    30-40% guard and 30-40% Necro.

    Well the thing is ele is more then a back line class and with the old stab it had support stab (all be it low duration) was usable. It was simply not updated to fill the new stab. There a lot of 1/2 balances in this game where only part of the skills and effects where updated to current effects and we NEED to old Anet accountable to updating every thing.

    It was asked what the percentage of classes in GWEN from 'teh olde daze'

    Yes, Ele could use some stab, but is not used as much in the current META.

    I suppose what the person I was quoting was trying to bring out was that the old meta comp wasn't a huge difference from now: 2/5 scourge (Necro) 2/5 firebrands (guard) with a smattering of warrior (Spellbreaker with bubble) rev and weaver/tempest.

    In the old days a thf could gank your eles and necro all day long that dose not happen any more. The old meta was far better then the mess we have now and it has a lot to do with boons update.

    Not arguing better or worse. The distribution of classes is fairly identical.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1, 2018

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Cogbyrn.7283 said:
    Am I the only person who played heavily for the year or two after release, stopped for a few years, came back recently and still sees all the same patterns in WvW? The ebb and flow of zerg vs. zerg fights looked almost identical, only there are more red circles on the ground now. Zergs ball into a fist, dive in as far as they feel they can, then hope their fist is still tight when they back out to ball up again. Both sides pick off as many stragglers as they can, some fights happen on the wings, etc.

    Even small roaming fights feel the same, for the most part. Mesmers/Thieves try to blow you up out of nowhere and use active defense to run away at the first hint of it not working. Rangers try to mow you down in Zerk gear from range, then use as much active defense on their alt weapon slot when you get close before switching back to try to catch you off guard with another LB #2. Every once in a while you'll see someone playing something else, and it's a treat, but then you see two Thieves roaming together and you remember what the good ol' days were like.

    Old stability was hilariously garbage design, and that was before boon removal/corruption was seemingly such a widespread thing. Resistance turning into immob is just funny to me, as well as seeming appropriate as a high-risk high-reward style boon.

    In my opinion, though, all of these things are just symptoms of the problem: boons and conditions both are a dime a dozen. The system is very arguably flawed at its core, and those flaws, no matter what they are, will shine brighter and brighter the more people you stack into a zerg.

    What was the old GWEN ratio from before when it came to GvG? What percentage was G, W, E, and N? I didn't play much in HoT, so maybe it was a golden age of GvG composition variability, but I'm guessing we're dealing with some rose-colored glasses here.

    Often two necros, two guards and maybe a warrior per party.

    Ele usually in a backline party with some Mesmer thrown in.

    In a good day, as an Ele, I might get something me stab, but I had cantrips to survive.

    30-40% guard and 30-40% Necro.

    Well the thing is ele is more then a back line class and with the old stab it had support stab (all be it low duration) was usable. It was simply not updated to fill the new stab. There a lot of 1/2 balances in this game where only part of the skills and effects where updated to current effects and we NEED to old Anet accountable to updating every thing.

    It was asked what the percentage of classes in GWEN from 'teh olde daze'

    Yes, Ele could use some stab, but is not used as much in the current META.

    I suppose what the person I was quoting was trying to bring out was that the old meta comp wasn't a huge difference from now: 2/5 scourge (Necro) 2/5 firebrands (guard) with a smattering of warrior (Spellbreaker with bubble) rev and weaver/tempest.

    In the old days a thf could gank your eles and necro all day long that dose not happen any more. The old meta was far better then the mess we have now and it has a lot to do with boons update.

    Not arguing better or worse. The distribution of classes is fairly identical.

    Its not though you only need 2 classes as things stand the other 2 class are there just there for added effect and you cant bring exotic classes to deal with the main dmg types any more.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Cogbyrn.7283 said:
    Am I the only person who played heavily for the year or two after release, stopped for a few years, came back recently and still sees all the same patterns in WvW? The ebb and flow of zerg vs. zerg fights looked almost identical, only there are more red circles on the ground now. Zergs ball into a fist, dive in as far as they feel they can, then hope their fist is still tight when they back out to ball up again. Both sides pick off as many stragglers as they can, some fights happen on the wings, etc.

    Even small roaming fights feel the same, for the most part. Mesmers/Thieves try to blow you up out of nowhere and use active defense to run away at the first hint of it not working. Rangers try to mow you down in Zerk gear from range, then use as much active defense on their alt weapon slot when you get close before switching back to try to catch you off guard with another LB #2. Every once in a while you'll see someone playing something else, and it's a treat, but then you see two Thieves roaming together and you remember what the good ol' days were like.

    Old stability was hilariously garbage design, and that was before boon removal/corruption was seemingly such a widespread thing. Resistance turning into immob is just funny to me, as well as seeming appropriate as a high-risk high-reward style boon.

    In my opinion, though, all of these things are just symptoms of the problem: boons and conditions both are a dime a dozen. The system is very arguably flawed at its core, and those flaws, no matter what they are, will shine brighter and brighter the more people you stack into a zerg.

    What was the old GWEN ratio from before when it came to GvG? What percentage was G, W, E, and N? I didn't play much in HoT, so maybe it was a golden age of GvG composition variability, but I'm guessing we're dealing with some rose-colored glasses here.

    Often two necros, two guards and maybe a warrior per party.

    Ele usually in a backline party with some Mesmer thrown in.

    In a good day, as an Ele, I might get something me stab, but I had cantrips to survive.

    30-40% guard and 30-40% Necro.

    Well the thing is ele is more then a back line class and with the old stab it had support stab (all be it low duration) was usable. It was simply not updated to fill the new stab. There a lot of 1/2 balances in this game where only part of the skills and effects where updated to current effects and we NEED to old Anet accountable to updating every thing.

    It was asked what the percentage of classes in GWEN from 'teh olde daze'

    Yes, Ele could use some stab, but is not used as much in the current META.

    I suppose what the person I was quoting was trying to bring out was that the old meta comp wasn't a huge difference from now: 2/5 scourge (Necro) 2/5 firebrands (guard) with a smattering of warrior (Spellbreaker with bubble) rev and weaver/tempest.

    In the old days a thf could gank your eles and necro all day long that dose not happen any more. The old meta was far better then the mess we have now and it has a lot to do with boons update.

    Not arguing better or worse. The distribution of classes is fairly identical.

    Its not though you only need 2 classes as things stand the other 2 class are there just there for added effect and you cant bring exotic classes to deal with the main dmg types any more.

    It's 2/5 necros (scourge) and 2/5 guards (FB) with a couple of warriors for bubble, and maybe some eles (weaver) or backline revs. Look back to the hammer trains., frontline parties were guards 2/5, 2/5 necros in party to get stab with the 5th being a warbanner warrior to Rez downs. Eles were in a backline party usually together, or were lucky to have a guard for some stab, and maybe a pick team with maybe a couple theifs and a Mesmer for veils.

    It really isn't much different.

    The skills are different, the outcomes are different and the roles are somewhat different.., but the class distribution really isn't.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Cogbyrn.7283 said:
    Am I the only person who played heavily for the year or two after release, stopped for a few years, came back recently and still sees all the same patterns in WvW? The ebb and flow of zerg vs. zerg fights looked almost identical, only there are more red circles on the ground now. Zergs ball into a fist, dive in as far as they feel they can, then hope their fist is still tight when they back out to ball up again. Both sides pick off as many stragglers as they can, some fights happen on the wings, etc.

    Even small roaming fights feel the same, for the most part. Mesmers/Thieves try to blow you up out of nowhere and use active defense to run away at the first hint of it not working. Rangers try to mow you down in Zerk gear from range, then use as much active defense on their alt weapon slot when you get close before switching back to try to catch you off guard with another LB #2. Every once in a while you'll see someone playing something else, and it's a treat, but then you see two Thieves roaming together and you remember what the good ol' days were like.

    Old stability was hilariously garbage design, and that was before boon removal/corruption was seemingly such a widespread thing. Resistance turning into immob is just funny to me, as well as seeming appropriate as a high-risk high-reward style boon.

    In my opinion, though, all of these things are just symptoms of the problem: boons and conditions both are a dime a dozen. The system is very arguably flawed at its core, and those flaws, no matter what they are, will shine brighter and brighter the more people you stack into a zerg.

    What was the old GWEN ratio from before when it came to GvG? What percentage was G, W, E, and N? I didn't play much in HoT, so maybe it was a golden age of GvG composition variability, but I'm guessing we're dealing with some rose-colored glasses here.

    Often two necros, two guards and maybe a warrior per party.

    Ele usually in a backline party with some Mesmer thrown in.

    In a good day, as an Ele, I might get something me stab, but I had cantrips to survive.

    30-40% guard and 30-40% Necro.

    Well the thing is ele is more then a back line class and with the old stab it had support stab (all be it low duration) was usable. It was simply not updated to fill the new stab. There a lot of 1/2 balances in this game where only part of the skills and effects where updated to current effects and we NEED to old Anet accountable to updating every thing.

    It was asked what the percentage of classes in GWEN from 'teh olde daze'

    Yes, Ele could use some stab, but is not used as much in the current META.

    I suppose what the person I was quoting was trying to bring out was that the old meta comp wasn't a huge difference from now: 2/5 scourge (Necro) 2/5 firebrands (guard) with a smattering of warrior (Spellbreaker with bubble) rev and weaver/tempest.

    In the old days a thf could gank your eles and necro all day long that dose not happen any more. The old meta was far better then the mess we have now and it has a lot to do with boons update.

    Not arguing better or worse. The distribution of classes is fairly identical.

    Its not though you only need 2 classes as things stand the other 2 class are there just there for added effect and you cant bring exotic classes to deal with the main dmg types any more.

    It's 2/5 necros (scourge) and 2/5 guards (FB) with a couple of warriors for bubble, and maybe some eles (weaver) or backline revs. Look back to the hammer trains., frontline parties were guards 2/5, 2/5 necros in party to get stab with the 5th being a warbanner warrior to Rez downs. Eles were in a backline party usually together, or were lucky to have a guard for some stab, and maybe a pick team with maybe a couple theifs and a Mesmer for veils.

    It really isn't much different.

    The skills are different, the outcomes are different and the roles are somewhat different.., but the class distribution really isn't.

    You only need a few warriors and you do not need them for the class just one skill. Scourges can replaces your weaver and hammer revs as they do enofe power dmg to have enofe non condi dmg (all though condi alone works well enofe).

    You CANT gank scorges like you can gank a weaver even a rev. In the older meta with older boon effects you could destroy necro and eles with thfs and thf like classes / builds as that IS the counter to mages classes. Its not like that any more and its taking a lot from the game.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Cogbyrn.7283 said:
    Am I the only person who played heavily for the year or two after release, stopped for a few years, came back recently and still sees all the same patterns in WvW? The ebb and flow of zerg vs. zerg fights looked almost identical, only there are more red circles on the ground now. Zergs ball into a fist, dive in as far as they feel they can, then hope their fist is still tight when they back out to ball up again. Both sides pick off as many stragglers as they can, some fights happen on the wings, etc.

    Even small roaming fights feel the same, for the most part. Mesmers/Thieves try to blow you up out of nowhere and use active defense to run away at the first hint of it not working. Rangers try to mow you down in Zerk gear from range, then use as much active defense on their alt weapon slot when you get close before switching back to try to catch you off guard with another LB #2. Every once in a while you'll see someone playing something else, and it's a treat, but then you see two Thieves roaming together and you remember what the good ol' days were like.

    Old stability was hilariously garbage design, and that was before boon removal/corruption was seemingly such a widespread thing. Resistance turning into immob is just funny to me, as well as seeming appropriate as a high-risk high-reward style boon.

    In my opinion, though, all of these things are just symptoms of the problem: boons and conditions both are a dime a dozen. The system is very arguably flawed at its core, and those flaws, no matter what they are, will shine brighter and brighter the more people you stack into a zerg.

    What was the old GWEN ratio from before when it came to GvG? What percentage was G, W, E, and N? I didn't play much in HoT, so maybe it was a golden age of GvG composition variability, but I'm guessing we're dealing with some rose-colored glasses here.

    Often two necros, two guards and maybe a warrior per party.

    Ele usually in a backline party with some Mesmer thrown in.

    In a good day, as an Ele, I might get something me stab, but I had cantrips to survive.

    30-40% guard and 30-40% Necro.

    Well the thing is ele is more then a back line class and with the old stab it had support stab (all be it low duration) was usable. It was simply not updated to fill the new stab. There a lot of 1/2 balances in this game where only part of the skills and effects where updated to current effects and we NEED to old Anet accountable to updating every thing.

    It was asked what the percentage of classes in GWEN from 'teh olde daze'

    Yes, Ele could use some stab, but is not used as much in the current META.

    I suppose what the person I was quoting was trying to bring out was that the old meta comp wasn't a huge difference from now: 2/5 scourge (Necro) 2/5 firebrands (guard) with a smattering of warrior (Spellbreaker with bubble) rev and weaver/tempest.

    In the old days a thf could gank your eles and necro all day long that dose not happen any more. The old meta was far better then the mess we have now and it has a lot to do with boons update.

    Not arguing better or worse. The distribution of classes is fairly identical.

    Its not though you only need 2 classes as things stand the other 2 class are there just there for added effect and you cant bring exotic classes to deal with the main dmg types any more.

    It's 2/5 necros (scourge) and 2/5 guards (FB) with a couple of warriors for bubble, and maybe some eles (weaver) or backline revs. Look back to the hammer trains., frontline parties were guards 2/5, 2/5 necros in party to get stab with the 5th being a warbanner warrior to Rez downs. Eles were in a backline party usually together, or were lucky to have a guard for some stab, and maybe a pick team with maybe a couple theifs and a Mesmer for veils.

    It really isn't much different.

    The skills are different, the outcomes are different and the roles are somewhat different.., but the class distribution really isn't.

    You only need a few warriors and you do not need them for the class just one skill. Scourges can replaces your weaver and hammer revs as they do enofe power dmg to have enofe non condi dmg (all though condi alone works well enofe).

    You CANT gank scorges like you can gank a weaver even a rev. In the older meta with older boon effects you could destroy necro and eles with thfs and thf like classes / builds as that IS the counter to mages classes. Its not like that any more and its taking a lot from the game.

    And all warrior was used for was war banner elite.

    Ganking scourge is definately possible, but no one wants to get good on ranger. Good soul beasts definately help, but finding them is hard because they've been chased out of squads for 5 years. And quick hitting thiefs can be very effective, but again, they've been relegated to roamers.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Cogbyrn.7283 said:
    Am I the only person who played heavily for the year or two after release, stopped for a few years, came back recently and still sees all the same patterns in WvW? The ebb and flow of zerg vs. zerg fights looked almost identical, only there are more red circles on the ground now. Zergs ball into a fist, dive in as far as they feel they can, then hope their fist is still tight when they back out to ball up again. Both sides pick off as many stragglers as they can, some fights happen on the wings, etc.

    Even small roaming fights feel the same, for the most part. Mesmers/Thieves try to blow you up out of nowhere and use active defense to run away at the first hint of it not working. Rangers try to mow you down in Zerk gear from range, then use as much active defense on their alt weapon slot when you get close before switching back to try to catch you off guard with another LB #2. Every once in a while you'll see someone playing something else, and it's a treat, but then you see two Thieves roaming together and you remember what the good ol' days were like.

    Old stability was hilariously garbage design, and that was before boon removal/corruption was seemingly such a widespread thing. Resistance turning into immob is just funny to me, as well as seeming appropriate as a high-risk high-reward style boon.

    In my opinion, though, all of these things are just symptoms of the problem: boons and conditions both are a dime a dozen. The system is very arguably flawed at its core, and those flaws, no matter what they are, will shine brighter and brighter the more people you stack into a zerg.

    What was the old GWEN ratio from before when it came to GvG? What percentage was G, W, E, and N? I didn't play much in HoT, so maybe it was a golden age of GvG composition variability, but I'm guessing we're dealing with some rose-colored glasses here.

    Often two necros, two guards and maybe a warrior per party.

    Ele usually in a backline party with some Mesmer thrown in.

    In a good day, as an Ele, I might get something me stab, but I had cantrips to survive.

    30-40% guard and 30-40% Necro.

    Well the thing is ele is more then a back line class and with the old stab it had support stab (all be it low duration) was usable. It was simply not updated to fill the new stab. There a lot of 1/2 balances in this game where only part of the skills and effects where updated to current effects and we NEED to old Anet accountable to updating every thing.

    It was asked what the percentage of classes in GWEN from 'teh olde daze'

    Yes, Ele could use some stab, but is not used as much in the current META.

    I suppose what the person I was quoting was trying to bring out was that the old meta comp wasn't a huge difference from now: 2/5 scourge (Necro) 2/5 firebrands (guard) with a smattering of warrior (Spellbreaker with bubble) rev and weaver/tempest.

    In the old days a thf could gank your eles and necro all day long that dose not happen any more. The old meta was far better then the mess we have now and it has a lot to do with boons update.

    Not arguing better or worse. The distribution of classes is fairly identical.

    Its not though you only need 2 classes as things stand the other 2 class are there just there for added effect and you cant bring exotic classes to deal with the main dmg types any more.

    It's 2/5 necros (scourge) and 2/5 guards (FB) with a couple of warriors for bubble, and maybe some eles (weaver) or backline revs. Look back to the hammer trains., frontline parties were guards 2/5, 2/5 necros in party to get stab with the 5th being a warbanner warrior to Rez downs. Eles were in a backline party usually together, or were lucky to have a guard for some stab, and maybe a pick team with maybe a couple theifs and a Mesmer for veils.

    It really isn't much different.

    The skills are different, the outcomes are different and the roles are somewhat different.., but the class distribution really isn't.

    You only need a few warriors and you do not need them for the class just one skill. Scourges can replaces your weaver and hammer revs as they do enofe power dmg to have enofe non condi dmg (all though condi alone works well enofe).

    You CANT gank scorges like you can gank a weaver even a rev. In the older meta with older boon effects you could destroy necro and eles with thfs and thf like classes / builds as that IS the counter to mages classes. Its not like that any more and its taking a lot from the game.

    And all warrior was used for was war banner elite.

    Ganking scourge is definately possible, but no one wants to get good on ranger. Good soul beasts definately help, but finding them is hard because they've been chased out of squads for 5 years. And quick hitting thiefs can be very effective, but again, they've been relegated to roamers.

    So war was never a needed class it was just a one skill thow away in both meta nothing changed there. There WAY too much counter projectile in the game now to gank with ranger. Roamers are still roamers they just cant dive on zergs to pick off the high dmg dealer classes as scorge has lots of aoe and lots of def. As well as no longer being able to have boons that let you get into fights and out of them like the older verson of the boons with there old convention to condis (part of the old vs new boons argument).

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1, 2018

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Cogbyrn.7283 said:
    Am I the only person who played heavily for the year or two after release, stopped for a few years, came back recently and still sees all the same patterns in WvW? The ebb and flow of zerg vs. zerg fights looked almost identical, only there are more red circles on the ground now. Zergs ball into a fist, dive in as far as they feel they can, then hope their fist is still tight when they back out to ball up again. Both sides pick off as many stragglers as they can, some fights happen on the wings, etc.

    Even small roaming fights feel the same, for the most part. Mesmers/Thieves try to blow you up out of nowhere and use active defense to run away at the first hint of it not working. Rangers try to mow you down in Zerk gear from range, then use as much active defense on their alt weapon slot when you get close before switching back to try to catch you off guard with another LB #2. Every once in a while you'll see someone playing something else, and it's a treat, but then you see two Thieves roaming together and you remember what the good ol' days were like.

    Old stability was hilariously garbage design, and that was before boon removal/corruption was seemingly such a widespread thing. Resistance turning into immob is just funny to me, as well as seeming appropriate as a high-risk high-reward style boon.

    In my opinion, though, all of these things are just symptoms of the problem: boons and conditions both are a dime a dozen. The system is very arguably flawed at its core, and those flaws, no matter what they are, will shine brighter and brighter the more people you stack into a zerg.

    What was the old GWEN ratio from before when it came to GvG? What percentage was G, W, E, and N? I didn't play much in HoT, so maybe it was a golden age of GvG composition variability, but I'm guessing we're dealing with some rose-colored glasses here.

    Often two necros, two guards and maybe a warrior per party.

    Ele usually in a backline party with some Mesmer thrown in.

    In a good day, as an Ele, I might get something me stab, but I had cantrips to survive.

    30-40% guard and 30-40% Necro.

    Well the thing is ele is more then a back line class and with the old stab it had support stab (all be it low duration) was usable. It was simply not updated to fill the new stab. There a lot of 1/2 balances in this game where only part of the skills and effects where updated to current effects and we NEED to old Anet accountable to updating every thing.

    It was asked what the percentage of classes in GWEN from 'teh olde daze'

    Yes, Ele could use some stab, but is not used as much in the current META.

    I suppose what the person I was quoting was trying to bring out was that the old meta comp wasn't a huge difference from now: 2/5 scourge (Necro) 2/5 firebrands (guard) with a smattering of warrior (Spellbreaker with bubble) rev and weaver/tempest.

    In the old days a thf could gank your eles and necro all day long that dose not happen any more. The old meta was far better then the mess we have now and it has a lot to do with boons update.

    Not arguing better or worse. The distribution of classes is fairly identical.

    Its not though you only need 2 classes as things stand the other 2 class are there just there for added effect and you cant bring exotic classes to deal with the main dmg types any more.

    It's 2/5 necros (scourge) and 2/5 guards (FB) with a couple of warriors for bubble, and maybe some eles (weaver) or backline revs. Look back to the hammer trains., frontline parties were guards 2/5, 2/5 necros in party to get stab with the 5th being a warbanner warrior to Rez downs. Eles were in a backline party usually together, or were lucky to have a guard for some stab, and maybe a pick team with maybe a couple theifs and a Mesmer for veils.

    It really isn't much different.

    The skills are different, the outcomes are different and the roles are somewhat different.., but the class distribution really isn't.

    You only need a few warriors and you do not need them for the class just one skill. Scourges can replaces your weaver and hammer revs as they do enofe power dmg to have enofe non condi dmg (all though condi alone works well enofe).

    You CANT gank scorges like you can gank a weaver even a rev. In the older meta with older boon effects you could destroy necro and eles with thfs and thf like classes / builds as that IS the counter to mages classes. Its not like that any more and its taking a lot from the game.

    And all warrior was used for was war banner elite.

    Ganking scourge is definately possible, but no one wants to get good on ranger. Good soul beasts definately help, but finding them is hard because they've been chased out of squads for 5 years. And quick hitting thiefs can be very effective, but again, they've been relegated to roamers.

    Warriors were used for more than that. They were used as a source of cleanse and blasting of water fields with war horn. FGJ for some fury upon entering combat and flurry cancelled after initial hit for a 3s immob onto enemies then to hammer for the CC chain, regroup while shaking off conditions and then leap through water field to heal and blast again to heal allies.

    Almost all of that has been made irrelevant by FB and scourge.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2, 2018

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Cogbyrn.7283 said:
    Am I the only person who played heavily for the year or two after release, stopped for a few years, came back recently and still sees all the same patterns in WvW? The ebb and flow of zerg vs. zerg fights looked almost identical, only there are more red circles on the ground now. Zergs ball into a fist, dive in as far as they feel they can, then hope their fist is still tight when they back out to ball up again. Both sides pick off as many stragglers as they can, some fights happen on the wings, etc.

    Even small roaming fights feel the same, for the most part. Mesmers/Thieves try to blow you up out of nowhere and use active defense to run away at the first hint of it not working. Rangers try to mow you down in Zerk gear from range, then use as much active defense on their alt weapon slot when you get close before switching back to try to catch you off guard with another LB #2. Every once in a while you'll see someone playing something else, and it's a treat, but then you see two Thieves roaming together and you remember what the good ol' days were like.

    Old stability was hilariously garbage design, and that was before boon removal/corruption was seemingly such a widespread thing. Resistance turning into immob is just funny to me, as well as seeming appropriate as a high-risk high-reward style boon.

    In my opinion, though, all of these things are just symptoms of the problem: boons and conditions both are a dime a dozen. The system is very arguably flawed at its core, and those flaws, no matter what they are, will shine brighter and brighter the more people you stack into a zerg.

    What was the old GWEN ratio from before when it came to GvG? What percentage was G, W, E, and N? I didn't play much in HoT, so maybe it was a golden age of GvG composition variability, but I'm guessing we're dealing with some rose-colored glasses here.

    Often two necros, two guards and maybe a warrior per party.

    Ele usually in a backline party with some Mesmer thrown in.

    In a good day, as an Ele, I might get something me stab, but I had cantrips to survive.

    30-40% guard and 30-40% Necro.

    Well the thing is ele is more then a back line class and with the old stab it had support stab (all be it low duration) was usable. It was simply not updated to fill the new stab. There a lot of 1/2 balances in this game where only part of the skills and effects where updated to current effects and we NEED to old Anet accountable to updating every thing.

    It was asked what the percentage of classes in GWEN from 'teh olde daze'

    Yes, Ele could use some stab, but is not used as much in the current META.

    I suppose what the person I was quoting was trying to bring out was that the old meta comp wasn't a huge difference from now: 2/5 scourge (Necro) 2/5 firebrands (guard) with a smattering of warrior (Spellbreaker with bubble) rev and weaver/tempest.

    In the old days a thf could gank your eles and necro all day long that dose not happen any more. The old meta was far better then the mess we have now and it has a lot to do with boons update.

    Not arguing better or worse. The distribution of classes is fairly identical.

    Its not though you only need 2 classes as things stand the other 2 class are there just there for added effect and you cant bring exotic classes to deal with the main dmg types any more.

    It's 2/5 necros (scourge) and 2/5 guards (FB) with a couple of warriors for bubble, and maybe some eles (weaver) or backline revs. Look back to the hammer trains., frontline parties were guards 2/5, 2/5 necros in party to get stab with the 5th being a warbanner warrior to Rez downs. Eles were in a backline party usually together, or were lucky to have a guard for some stab, and maybe a pick team with maybe a couple theifs and a Mesmer for veils.

    It really isn't much different.

    The skills are different, the outcomes are different and the roles are somewhat different.., but the class distribution really isn't.

    You only need a few warriors and you do not need them for the class just one skill. Scourges can replaces your weaver and hammer revs as they do enofe power dmg to have enofe non condi dmg (all though condi alone works well enofe).

    You CANT gank scorges like you can gank a weaver even a rev. In the older meta with older boon effects you could destroy necro and eles with thfs and thf like classes / builds as that IS the counter to mages classes. Its not like that any more and its taking a lot from the game.

    And all warrior was used for was war banner elite.

    Ganking scourge is definately possible, but no one wants to get good on ranger. Good soul beasts definately help, but finding them is hard because they've been chased out of squads for 5 years. And quick hitting thiefs can be very effective, but again, they've been relegated to roamers.

    Warriors were used for more than that. They were used as a source of cleanse and blasting of water fields with war horn. FGJ for some fury upon entering combat and flurry cancelled after initial hit for a 3s immob onto enemies then to hammer for the CC chain, regroup while shaking off conditions and then leap through water field to heal and blast again to heal allies.

    Almost all of that has been made irrelevant by FB and scourge.

    Sad but true. I realty think if they fixed the strong boons and conversion both boon and condis would go a long way to fixing the 2 class wvw meta.

    Side note: I truly miss blasting fields viable and the level of skills and work brings so much enjoyment and team work that its a real shame to see the state they are in
    (this alone is why i wanted to play gw2 i love team work and i love to see new things to come from team work.)

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If only blasting light fields removed 6 conditions. :grimace:

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Mokk.2397Mokk.2397 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2018

    Take stability and resistance out of the boon line and make them a part of the Attribute line.Stability can be base on your power (strength),precision (agility). Maybe an average of the two or a percentage .The more a person specs for stability the the shorter the control effects .Resistance can be based on your toughness (stamina)and vitality (Health). Also maybe a average of the two or a percentage .This simple solution would mitigate the condition damage and control effects at the core level . A natural core resistance and stability just simply makes sense. This might force players to build more sensibly and balanced .

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