Question about wintrading

Not sure if it's win trading and don't want to get in trouble for it.

Situation 1: Playing the game, we are winning, someone DC's.... They come back but it's too late, we are losing... Someone in team chat mentions they shouldn't have come back for the sake of the team, the guy leaves again and someone (me) sends them gold with a thank you for their consideration.

Situation 2: We lost the mid fight, the scourge says he's afk but never disconnects from the match and just sits in base... Someone offers him 25g to just leave the game completely and he does.

Any of those examples win trading? Or is purely paying someone on the other team to throw?

Trying to find a way around the rule?

Question about wintradingDon't.

@sephiroth.4217 said:Even 5g would be too much for that necroNone of those is wintrading but dumbness of people,simple

Happy birthday song. If you don’t reconnect back by time you sing that...log out for 15 minutes

Neither of those situations is wintrading and I would have no issue at all with anyone doing either in my games and I would do it myself if I cared enough about rating. Offering people gold to do the RIGHT THING is completely different to just paying people to save your rating.

If someone wants to afk, that’s no problem at all as long as they dc. If they need some gold as encouragement to dc then by all means go ahead and pay them. It is not match manipulation regardless of what anet may believe on this matter because someone is deliberately losing your game and costing you a whole hour of your day (if you are high rating) to get back to where you would have been if you won the match. It is the exact same situation with the first scenario. Someone is going to cost you an entire hour of your day (assuming you care about rating, again) when you should absolutely not lose rating for that game and paying someone so that you get what you deserve and do not get put in a totally unfair situation is fine in my opinion.

They already fixed it, their solution was move the whole PvP team to PvE/WvW where the money is. I don't give a kitten anymore about PvP just farm your chest when the season is over go PvE/WvW where the development team is.

@"Chilli.2976" said:They already fixed it, their solution was move the whole PvP team to PvE/WvW where the money is. I don't give a kitten anymore about PvP just farm your chest when the season is over go PvE/WvW where the development team is.

Yup the balance is ruined for sPvP and my buddy and I are just going to get our last chest for the first time next season and start playing WvW where we don't have to worry about "teamwork" to rotate properly and stand on a point. lol

While those options technically are not win trading, you have to think of how it will look from Anet’s side. It would very much look like you were involved and it wouldn’t surprise me if players who were actual win trading did just that to “hide” it.

@Chilli.2976 said:They already fixed it, their solution was move the whole PvP team to PvE/WvW where the money is. I don't give a kitten anymore about PvP just farm your chest when the season is over go PvE/WvW where the development team is.

They're not in WvW either. PvE and BLTC drive this game.

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:Not sure if it's win trading and don't want to get in trouble for it.

Situation 1: Playing the game, we are winning, someone DC's.... They come back but it's too late, we are losing... Someone in team chat mentions they shouldn't have come back for the sake of the team, the guy leaves again and someone (me) sends them gold with a thank you for their consideration.

Situation 2: We lost the mid fight, the scourge says he's afk but never disconnects from the match and just sits in base... Someone offers him 25g to just leave the game completely and he does.

Any of those examples win trading? Or is purely paying someone on the other team to throw?

This answer is a bit too absolute for the complex scenarios that these situations paint.

Back in the day (before loss-forgiven system existed) in high-rated matches, it was customary to honor an AFK or a DC, by simply having 1 person AFK in base until the enemy AFK came back/re-connected. That's just good sportsmanship. Of course, you can argue that this "honorable" behavior isn't necessary since statistically DCs are gonna happen to pretty much everyone and in the long-run the points one gains from an enemy DC and the points one loses for ally DC should net to zero.

That being said, as soon as the loss-forgiven system was implemented, all of this was thrown out the window. You introduced a system in which "win-trading" can thrive--and do so with virtually no risk. By having the option for 4 out of 5 players to not lose rating if someone takes the hit, you've invited abusive behavior to be part of the game.

That being said, I rarely see the cries for "omg you sux pls DC so we don't lose point" in high rated games. It is mostly when I'm smurfing in gold or lower that I see this behavior.

Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is this:If you don't want people to abuse the system, just remove it entirely. It shouldn't exist. Yea, losing because you had a DC feelsbadman, but you are just as likely to win as many games because of enemy DC as well.

Removing loss-forgiven won't remove win-trading entirely but I am certain that it will remove A LOT of it.

The moment you, in game, pay someone for an specific behavior, you are conditioning the entire balance of the game. Maybe it can be acceptable as a negotiation outside the match, or as a previously agreed rule, but in the moment it is just manipulation of the situation, which can go wrong in both ways, and which doesn't help to keep the game's transparency.I don't get it, sorry. Is really that terrible to lose sometimes? I prefer my wins clean and clear, and don't fear losing when the rules are fair.Fun is more important than winning, anyway.

Yeah I wouldn't call either of those "win trading" per se, but I feel like both scenarios are the very foundation of win trading and therefore should be avoided.

I wouldn't even call either scenario "match manipulation", as the teammates' refusal to play arguably did all the manipulating already. All the payers are doing is attempting to prevent rating loss from a match that a teammate has unfairly all but guaranteed to result in a loss.

That being said, the very fact that players are willing to pay and be paid for changing their behavior in spvp is the problem itself. Any incentive to intentionally change a match (outside of sincere competition) can only lead to more clear-cut forms of win trading and match manipulation, I fear.

But more importantly, Ben has spoken:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Don't do either of these scenarios.

Maybe not the most comprehensive answer, but a very clear one nonetheless.

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Not sure if it's win trading and don't want to get in trouble for it.

Situation 1: Playing the game, we are winning, someone DC's.... They come back but it's too late, we are losing... Someone in team chat mentions they shouldn't have come back for the sake of the team, the guy leaves again and someone (me) sends them gold with a thank you for their consideration.

Situation 2: We lost the mid fight, the scourge says he's afk but never disconnects from the match and just sits in base... Someone offers him 25g to just leave the game completely and he does.

Any of those examples win trading? Or is purely paying someone on the other team to throw?

Cool but one of recent celeb wintraders you perma dishonoured is already doing the same on new account so what's the point of not doing so if someone wants easy money?

If there was a more advanced system of evaluating players' performance such incidents would occur less often. Ok I can't blame the guy who disconnected the internet isn't a perfect thing but for the necro if there was a system evaluating his performance and would punish him with -30 rank points for low team contribution, I am sure he would have thought it twice to afk.

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Not sure if it's win trading and don't want to get in trouble for it.

Situation 1: Playing the game, we are winning, someone DC's.... They come back but it's too late, we are losing... Someone in team chat mentions they shouldn't have come back for the sake of the team, the guy leaves again and someone (me) sends them gold with a thank you for their consideration.

Situation 2: We lost the mid fight, the scourge says he's afk but never disconnects from the match and just sits in base... Someone offers him 25g to just leave the game completely and he does.

Any of those examples win trading? Or is purely paying someone on the other team to throw?

good thing I asked because that was very helpful

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Not sure if it's win trading and don't want to get in trouble for it.

Situation 1: Playing the game, we are winning, someone DC's.... They come back but it's too late, we are losing... Someone in team chat mentions they shouldn't have come back for the sake of the team, the guy leaves again and someone (me) sends them gold with a thank you for their consideration.

Situation 2: We lost the mid fight, the scourge says he's afk but never disconnects from the match and just sits in base... Someone offers him 25g to just leave the game completely and he does.

Any of those examples win trading? Or is purely paying someone on the other team to throw?

Yup, both of these scenarios mean you're playing PvP. Which of course is the opposite that Anet wants you to do.

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Not sure if it's win trading and don't want to get in trouble for it.

Situation 1: Playing the game, we are winning, someone DC's.... They come back but it's too late, we are losing... Someone in team chat mentions they shouldn't have come back for the sake of the team, the guy leaves again and someone (me) sends them gold with a thank you for their consideration.

Situation 2: We lost the mid fight, the scourge says he's afk but never disconnects from the match and just sits in base... Someone offers him 25g to just leave the game completely and he does.

Any of those examples win trading? Or is purely paying someone on the other team to throw?

Yeah just suck up the massive loss in rating/time? Hopefully you understand that a -20 to -25 because of either scenario is at least half an hour of wasted time AND/OR more losses with your arbitrary MM.

Best thing to do in case of scenario 1: nothing, scenario 2: report as being inactive and move along.

I really want to like gw2 spvp but this type of forum post illustrates how much of a mess the mode is.

@Vicariuz.1605 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Not sure if it's win trading and don't want to get in trouble for it.

Situation 1: Playing the game, we are winning, someone DC's.... They come back but it's too late, we are losing... Someone in team chat mentions they shouldn't have come back for the sake of the team, the guy leaves again and someone (me) sends them gold with a thank you for their consideration.

Situation 2: We lost the mid fight, the scourge says he's afk but never disconnects from the match and just sits in base... Someone offers him 25g to just leave the game completely and he does.

Any of those examples win trading? Or is purely paying someone on the other team to throw?

Both of the examples that the OP gave can give the appearance of win trading.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Vicariuz.1605 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Not sure if it's win trading and don't want to get in trouble for it.

Situation 1: Playing the game, we are winning, someone DC's.... They come back but it's too late, we are losing... Someone in team chat mentions they shouldn't have come back for the sake of the team, the guy leaves again and someone (me) sends them gold with a thank you for their consideration.

Situation 2: We lost the mid fight, the scourge says he's afk but never disconnects from the match and just sits in base... Someone offers him 25g to just leave the game completely and he does.

Any of those examples win trading? Or is purely paying someone on the other team to throw?

Obviously...........

i dont get why u would pay them ? granted i dont do much ranked pvp so dunno if being 4 ppl losing is affecting ur rating less than being 5 ppl losing.but the paying part is just beyond me xD

And the rolling dumpster fire continues to roll down Mount Trashmore....