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2v2/3v3 Queue Gamemode (Yes that topic again)


Lucentfir.7430

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It's already been suggested numerous times, but can we please get 2v2s/3v3s or something that isn't conquest with its own ranked scene with leaderboards, or even profession ranked boards? Most of the tech is already there to give it its own queue. Before you say it was supported and it failed based on the server browser state, note that most of the server browser games are dead, even hotjoin conquest. People don't want to sit in a room by themselves hopping someone else comes in to play. Give something to the PVP players that want to fight/duel other players as the focus rather than capping nodes.

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I have a feeling this will be incredibly toxic to PvP. We already have nearly an entire population of duelers who can't play well as a team. 2v2 and 3v3 will amplify that problem.

I hate to be the downer, but what we need is a 5man mode with leaderboards. Conquest is an excellent mode. Team death match was already proven to be a failure with courtyard.

imo

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@bladezero.9470 said:I have a feeling this will be incredibly toxic to PvP. We already have nearly an entire population of duelers who can't play well as a team. 2v2 and 3v3 will amplify that problem.

I hate to be the downer, but what we need is a 5man mode with leaderboards. Conquest is an excellent mode. Team death match was already proven to be a failure with courtyard.

imo

Right because current PVP isn't already toxic. So you'd rather deny those duelers or people just wanting to fight other players, a quick match mode that they might like more than conquest based on assumption?

It's fine to have a ranked 5 man with leaderboards no one is arguing against that(unless you're trying to promote solos vs premades) and conquest is a decent game mode, but 5-6 years of conquest as the only game mode, it's grown incredibly stale, people are bored of it.

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Idea of 2v2 or 3v3 is good because i could play with friend or friends. Right now it's just random. Really annoying random i would say and I don't understand what's the point of rating when its just random. And unranked is practically without reward.

@pah.4931 said:Ranked needs to be 5-man queue conquest with awesome rewards.

Unranked needs to be random battelgrounds with tons more game modes (10v10, 15v15, capture the flag, etc) with great rewards.

I'll keep saying it!

I agree with you but it will not work because of scourges. If you do not trust me than go and look how the mass pvp looks like in WvW. It's scourge fest.

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@Luna.6203 said:Idea of 2v2 or 3v3 is good because i could play with friend or friends. Right now it's just random. Really annoying random i would say and I don't understand what's the point of rating when its just random. And unranked is practically without reward.

@pah.4931 said:Ranked needs to be 5-man queue conquest with awesome rewards.

Unranked needs to be random battelgrounds with tons more game modes (10v10, 15v15, capture the flag, etc) with great rewards.

I'll keep saying it!

I agree with you but it will not work because of scourges. If you do not trust me than go and look how the mass pvp looks like in WvW. It's scourge fest.

Oh, I agree. Scourge should never have happened--mind-boggling that the class made it out of the whiteboard stage of development cycle. BUT one of the reasons scourge is so oppressive is because Conquest forces you to fight in circles the same size as scourge's AoE coverage. In other game modes with other objectives (where kiting is much easier), the low mobility scourge wouldn't be THAT bad. (Though, I admit, several of them would get old real quick ... so bigger teams would be problematic)

This could be solved by not allowing class changing after you queue, that way you can control how many scourges (or any class) are on a team.

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@pah.4931 said:

@Luna.6203 said:Idea of 2v2 or 3v3 is good because i could play with friend or friends. Right now it's just random. Really annoying random i would say and I don't understand what's the point of rating when its just random. And unranked is practically without reward.

@pah.4931 said:Ranked needs to be 5-man queue conquest with awesome rewards.

Unranked needs to be random battelgrounds with tons more game modes (10v10, 15v15, capture the flag, etc) with great rewards.

I'll keep saying it!

I agree with you but it will not work because of scourges. If you do not trust me than go and look how the mass pvp looks like in WvW. It's scourge fest.

Oh, I agree. Scourge should never have happened--mind-boggling that the class made it out of the whiteboard stage of development cycle. BUT one of the reasons scourge is so oppressive is because Conquest forces you to fight in circles the same size as scourge's AoE coverage. In other game modes with other objectives (where kiting is much easier), the low mobility scourge wouldn't be THAT bad. (Though, I admit, several of them would get old real quick ... so bigger teams would be problematic)

This could be solved by not allowing class changing after you queue, that way you can control how many scourges (or any class) are on a team.

Just play with better firebrand supports or any number of counters to scourge. Scourge is not a problem, not at all.

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@bladezero.9470 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@Luna.6203 said:Idea of 2v2 or 3v3 is good because i could play with friend or friends. Right now it's just random. Really annoying random i would say and I don't understand what's the point of rating when its just random. And unranked is practically without reward.

@pah.4931 said:Ranked needs to be 5-man queue conquest with awesome rewards.

Unranked needs to be random battelgrounds with tons more game modes (10v10, 15v15, capture the flag, etc) with great rewards.

I'll keep saying it!

I agree with you but it will not work because of scourges. If you do not trust me than go and look how the mass pvp looks like in WvW. It's scourge fest.

Oh, I agree. Scourge should never have happened--mind-boggling that the class made it out of the whiteboard stage of development cycle. BUT one of the reasons scourge is so oppressive is because Conquest forces you to fight in circles the same size as scourge's AoE coverage. In other game modes with other objectives (where kiting is much easier), the low mobility scourge wouldn't be THAT bad. (Though, I admit, several of them would get old real quick ... so bigger teams would be problematic)

This could be solved by not allowing class changing after you queue, that way you can control how many scourges (or any class) are on a team.

Just play with better firebrand supports or any number of counters to scourge. Scourge is not a problem, not at all.

Depends on how you define "problem." They sure aren't fun to look at. Playing against 2 scourges with 1 on your team is visually one of the worst things I've ever seen in my life in a video game. In a vacuum scourge isn't all that bad, but when the only game mode is to fight in tiny circles to win and there's a class that can spam abilities in the same size of those tiny circles (from a bit o' range, even)--it starts to become problematic. Imagine if the only game mode were Capture the Flag and then the next expansion launched with a new Thief spec that did almost no damage but had perma-quickness and 6 teleports and evasion while they have the buff quickness?

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@bladezero.9470 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@Luna.6203 said:Idea of 2v2 or 3v3 is good because i could play with friend or friends. Right now it's just random. Really annoying random i would say and I don't understand what's the point of rating when its just random. And unranked is practically without reward.

@pah.4931 said:Ranked needs to be 5-man queue conquest with awesome rewards.

Unranked needs to be random battelgrounds with tons more game modes (10v10, 15v15, capture the flag, etc) with great rewards.

I'll keep saying it!

I agree with you but it will not work because of scourges. If you do not trust me than go and look how the mass pvp looks like in WvW. It's scourge fest.

Oh, I agree. Scourge should never have happened--mind-boggling that the class made it out of the whiteboard stage of development cycle. BUT one of the reasons scourge is so oppressive is because Conquest forces you to fight in circles the same size as scourge's AoE coverage. In other game modes with other objectives (where kiting is much easier), the low mobility scourge wouldn't be THAT bad. (Though, I admit, several of them would get old real quick ... so bigger teams would be problematic)

This could be solved by not allowing class changing after you queue, that way you can control how many scourges (or any class) are on a team.

Just play with better firebrand supports or any number of counters to scourge. Scourge is not a problem, not at all.

Okay try to imagine 15v15. With current pvp population it would be like 5 scourges, 5 mesmers and 5 other classes. (on both side). Now try to imagine how many aoe from scourges (again on both sides) will be between players. Now add 2x5 mesmers with illusions and clones. Really fun right ? If you don't have imagination i told just go to WvW you will see. And if you want to enjoy facing scourges in mass pvp as max as possible i recommend you melee class. But I think its bit off topic. This discussion was originally make about 2v2 and 3v3. I really enjoyed arenas in wow and Im sure i could enjoy them in gw2. It would also make sense to have rating system there.

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Yes. ANET please bring a 2v2 mode to make PvP exciting for many many people again. Capping nodes and relying on a team gets old when they don't listen to you over and over again...

Hey could you guys get side nodes? We can't teamfight in mid.

Random guy goes to mid and dies in an outnumbered fight.

THIS is why pvp is frustrating. A ton of people is not willing to rotate properly and a 2v2 mode and the ability to team up with a friend would be much more fun.... because they actually listen to you.

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@Luna.6203 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@Luna.6203 said:Idea of 2v2 or 3v3 is good because i could play with friend or friends. Right now it's just random. Really annoying random i would say and I don't understand what's the point of rating when its just random. And unranked is practically without reward.

@pah.4931 said:Ranked needs to be 5-man queue conquest with awesome rewards.

Unranked needs to be random battelgrounds with tons more game modes (10v10, 15v15, capture the flag, etc) with great rewards.

I'll keep saying it!

I agree with you but it will not work because of scourges. If you do not trust me than go and look how the mass pvp looks like in WvW. It's scourge fest.

Oh, I agree. Scourge should never have happened--mind-boggling that the class made it out of the whiteboard stage of development cycle. BUT one of the reasons scourge is so oppressive is because Conquest forces you to fight in circles the same size as scourge's AoE coverage. In other game modes with other objectives (where kiting is much easier), the low mobility scourge wouldn't be THAT bad. (Though, I admit, several of them would get old real quick ... so bigger teams would be problematic)

This could be solved by not allowing class changing after you queue, that way you can control how many scourges (or any class) are on a team.

Just play with better firebrand supports or any number of counters to scourge. Scourge is not a problem, not at all.

Okay try to imagine 15v15. With current pvp population it would be like 5 scourges, 5 mesmers and 5 other classes. (on both side). Now try to imagine how many aoe from scourges (again on both sides) will be between players. Now add 2x5 mesmers with illusions and clones. Really fun right ? If you don't have imagination i told just go to WvW you will see. And if you want to enjoy facing scourges in mass pvp as max as possible i recommend you melee class. But I think its bit off topic. This discussion was originally make about 2v2 and 3v3. I really enjoyed arenas in wow and Im sure i could enjoy them in gw2. It would also make sense to have rating system there.

Well if you have an imagination, imagine facing off against 3 support firebrands in a 3v3. I don't think they can do any sort of Deathmatch until they overhaul condis and boons with DRs. Stealth would also be way to strong (unless damage was reduced by a ton... but then support/bunkers would be even more oppressive), so more classes would need reveal. Or even think about 3 mesmers for that matter. In the GW2 combat environment, with damage the way it is and stealth the way it is, you almost couldn't run a class that didn't have any "get out of jail free" abilities (Engineer's elixer or an invuln that's also a stunbreak). Could you imagine being a reaper in a 3v3 deathmatch with a stealth opener and no life force? You'd be dead out the door.

Anyways. Obviously a 15v15 map would be big and the map objectives would spread people out. If we're going to use our imaginations, USE our imaginations! :D

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@pah.4931 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@Luna.6203 said:Idea of 2v2 or 3v3 is good because i could play with friend or friends. Right now it's just random. Really annoying random i would say and I don't understand what's the point of rating when its just random. And unranked is practically without reward.

@pah.4931 said:Ranked needs to be 5-man queue conquest with awesome rewards.

Unranked needs to be random battelgrounds with tons more game modes (10v10, 15v15, capture the flag, etc) with great rewards.

I'll keep saying it!

I agree with you but it will not work because of scourges. If you do not trust me than go and look how the mass pvp looks like in WvW. It's scourge fest.

Oh, I agree. Scourge should never have happened--mind-boggling that the class made it out of the whiteboard stage of development cycle. BUT one of the reasons scourge is so oppressive is because Conquest forces you to fight in circles the same size as scourge's AoE coverage. In other game modes with other objectives (where kiting is much easier), the low mobility scourge wouldn't be THAT bad. (Though, I admit, several of them would get old real quick ... so bigger teams would be problematic)

This could be solved by not allowing class changing after you queue, that way you can control how many scourges (or any class) are on a team.

Just play with better firebrand supports or any number of counters to scourge. Scourge is not a problem, not at all.

Okay try to imagine 15v15. With current pvp population it would be like 5 scourges, 5 mesmers and 5 other classes. (on both side). Now try to imagine how many aoe from scourges (again on both sides) will be between players. Now add 2x5 mesmers with illusions and clones. Really fun right ? If you don't have imagination i told just go to WvW you will see. And if you want to enjoy facing scourges in mass pvp as max as possible i recommend you melee class. But I think its bit off topic. This discussion was originally make about 2v2 and 3v3. I really enjoyed arenas in wow and Im sure i could enjoy them in gw2. It would also make sense to have rating system there.

Well if you have an imagination, imagine facing off against 3 support firebrands in a 3v3. I don't think they can do any sort of Deathmatch until they overhaul condis and boons with DRs. Stealth would also be way to strong (unless damage was reduced by a ton... but then support/bunkers would be even more oppressive), so more classes would need reveal. Or even think about 3 mesmers for that matter. In the GW2 combat environment, with damage the way it is and stealth the way it is, you almost couldn't run a class that didn't have any "get out of jail free" abilities (Engineer's elixer or an invuln that's also a stunbreak). Could you imagine being a reaper in a 3v3 deathmatch with a stealth opener and no life force? You'd be dead out the door.

Anyways. Obviously a 15v15 map would be big and the map objectives would spread people out. If we're going to use our imaginations, USE our imaginations! :D

There are a number of ways you can handle things like that, one possible solution you could do to discourage full bunker troll comps in a 2v2/3v3 environment like that would be deciding time out matches with which team did the most overall damage, and/or if the fight drags on for longer than it should(lets say 3.5 minutes out of 5), everyone gets a debuff -50% healing, boon, and stealth application. 2v2s/3v3s wouldn't be deathmatch, i was more in the mind of no respawns with the Bo3.

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If the team working on or the one single person working on pvp would have moved on to tdm before wasting so much time on Eternal Coliseum and Revenge of the Capricorn. Things could be better. With a low skill required map game mode where any speedy character wins the game, the game has become stale. Fighting on or against little invisible circles with circle dance pvp is not a skilled game mode. TDM opens up every possibility you can think of because speed or running around to decap won't be needed.

Here is how to fix pvp:

  • End circle dancing pvp and bring real pvp to gw2 like gw2 had.

  • Create a leader board for solo only player and a leader board for groups of 2 3 and 5. (people can be on both if they play both)

^^^^^^ That's all you need is those 2. Balance is a issue but it has always been a issue with lack of working on pvp.

  • Optional idea would be to get rid of all pve gear in pvp and go back to pvp glory skins. Let the trash playing pvp just for rewards move on to pve and not pvp.
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@bladezero.9470 said:I have a feeling this will be incredibly toxic to PvP. We already have nearly an entire population of duelers who can't play well as a team. 2v2 and 3v3 will amplify that problem.

I hate to be the downer, but what we need is a 5man mode with leaderboards. Conquest is an excellent mode. Team death match was already proven to be a failure with courtyard.

imo

Courtyard wasn't a failure due to it being a death match, it was a failure because they put a death match into a conquest queue.... The ones who switched builds at the start were fine but the ones that relied on builds like Thief to Decap and +1 got steam rolled and created extremely unbalanced matches.

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They should make a death match mode with:

  • no respawns.
  • A bonus mechanic called Resurrection Signet that revives allies (1 player , 1 use, 1 time, no recharge) but they come back with Death Penalty a 33% effectiveness reduction
  • first team to be completely elminated loses
  • bunker and self - sustain amulets banned
  • the map should be smallest so the best mobility doesn't really matter and only a few obstacles with opportunities to LoS, and anti-port
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  • 2 months later...

Deathmatch arenas are essential for PVP in any MMO and GW has an incredible potential in that area, with all the various skill builds and profession combinations. I'm a returning player after a long hiatus and I was unpleasantly surprised to find out that they're not in yet. So, balance is an issue (and I'm super out of it by now, catching up on the meta), but let's suppose they make it so that you can't have 2 professions of the same type on a team. Or similar specs (or no duplicate elite specs). Skills can be reworked on the fly to be rebalanced solely for Deathmatch, but of course there would be many challenges, as it always is with new game modes. A lot of people would play this mode, I personally have a friend or two who would return to GW just for a better PvP mode, since they got tired of conquest years ago.

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@bladezero.9470 said:I have a feeling this will be incredibly toxic to PvP. We already have nearly an entire population of duelers who can't play well as a team. 2v2 and 3v3 will amplify that problem.

I hate to be the downer, but what we need is a 5man mode with leaderboards. Conquest is an excellent mode. Team death match was already proven to be a failure with courtyard.

imo

Good thing it's not based on your feelings, what an argument you got there. And I wasn't aware that courtyard was a finished product with it's own rule set, separate que and matchmaking to support it, oh wait, it didn't have any of that. Next time get your facts straight.

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I only played ~850 PvP Matches since 2014 so I dont see myself as a PvP player I am placed in gold atm. Not that I wanted it!My Opinion:Generally more game modes doeesnt hurt, but I will ask you one question from a PvE Perspective.RewardsAre you happy to get the same rewards in 1v1 as in 5v5? I dont think so. You will be wanting your specials snowflake skins and stuff.. You will want your own Achievement tab with 5k AP worth of stuff in it. Now you are forcing other players who want that rewards to play a game mode which should be an alternative at the beginning.

IF and only IF they add more gametypes, the rewards of the whole PvP experience should be mainstreamed. The Reward tracks are a great way to do. IMHO they should remove game-mode related rewards and APs and add ton of game modes which all contribute to the Reward Track/League PIP.That way players can play the mode what they want but not get punished by missing out skins/APs.Dont forget GW2 is Skin wars and Achievment hunt.

PS ; I dont even want to write about balancing issues in a game with tons of professions and builds which are meant to be counters to each other. How do you balance 1v1?

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