[Expansions 3, 4, and 5] Ideas for 27 new elite specializations — Guild Wars 2 Forums

[Expansions 3, 4, and 5] Ideas for 27 new elite specializations

Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭
edited July 7, 2018 in Professions

This is the full list of my 27 elite specialization ideas, three whole generations designed for three distinct expansions.

You can read about the first expansion idea here: Guild Wars 2: The Celestial Tournament - Cantha expansion idea. The other two aren't ready yet, but the elite specializations have been for some time, so I figured I'd post them already, since I don't know if I'll ever get to finish the other two expansion ideas, and some people were genuinely interested in knowing more about these.

I developed these 27 elite specializations at the same time, to make sure I didn't spend too many cool things in one, leaving no room for future additions. Their mechanic, weapon, and slot skill choices are balanced as well, since I wanted to guarantee the resources are used evenly. The description for each one is pretty short, I don't want to delve into specifics and leave some room for imagination. Once the basic idea was finished, I also put emphasis on giving each one a theme, matching one of the expansion settings, since I feel the lack of themes is one of the biggest flaws of the official elite specializations.

Note that these elite specialization ideas include new weapon type ideas as well.


Third expansion - Cantha

My plot for the Canthan expansion, as linked above, is that of a tournament. Five of the elite specializations are Canthan themed, and the other four are based on foreigners attending the competition. I had to do this in part because this is the expansion where I introduce the new weapon types, and needed to make sure enough of them were introduced now and here.

  • Elementalist - Dervish: The dervish arts of Elona were thought lost since long ago, but they have seen a resurgence after Palawa Joko's defeat. With the Six Human Gods gone, they have now turned back to their original roots, focusing exclusively on elemental magic. Their main ability is the transformation into djinn avatars, and their weapon of choice is the scythe, followed by wells to replace their now cast aside divine prayers. Holding strong at close combat, their newly acquired skills should not be underestimated.
  • Mesmer - Redemptor: Music is a primordial aspect of Kurzick culture, and it is no surprise to see it turned into a weapon in the hands of the mesmers of Echovald Forest. Casting shattering away, they wield various musical instruments in combat, giving support and healing to allies, all while torturing their enemies as well. They wield shortbows in battle, using its string as another musical instrument, and firing homing arrows against their targets. They can use their sweet singing voice to shout too, further increasing their control over the battlefield.
  • Necromancer - Apothecary: The afflicted plague that once razed Cantha marked its people like no other calamity since the Jade Wind itself. There were those, however, who saw it as a weapon, to be wielded by the right hands. Many plagues have been concocted since then, deep in the tunnels of the Undercity. These necromancers forgo their shroud in exchange of a belt hosting a wide array of plague bombs. Wielding pistols in both hands, and drinking elixirs to infuse their bodies with all kind of toxins, they are a danger to both themselves and anyone who opposes them.
  • Engineer - Golemancer: The joint efforts of the Pact, together with salvaged technology from Rata Novus, have lead to quick advancements in golemancy, the likes never seen before. Skilled engineers can now operate in combat driving a new generation of golem suits, wholly compatible with all kind of classic kit upgrades, thanks to their weaponized dynamic wrist rotation. Their weapon of choice is the focus, complemented by multi-purpose glyphs, adapted for both normal and in-suit usage. This tournament of bookahs will prove the superiority of asuran magitech once and for all.
  • Ranger - Reaver: The nomadic Luxon from the Jade Sea are constantly adapting to their hazardous homeland in order to survive. Their rangers scout the everchanging landscape, accompanied by a swarm of smaller pets instead of individual companions. Stone Crabs, Sea Snakes, or even exotic creatures like Pocket Raptors and Pygmy Moas qualify for swarm training. They are trained to wield spears in both hands, using them in both close and ranged combat. They make extensive use of various venoms, applying them to both their weapons and their swarms.
  • Thief - Assassin: Canthan culture is famous for many things, but the most shocking has to be their tolerance for paid murder. Death by unnatural causes is commonplace, and assassination is a refined art. Stealing is a petty maneuver when you can just gear yourself with all sort of deadly murder tools, like chains, claws, blowpipes, and more. When these tools are not enough, greatswords can finish the job quickly. Practicing combat stances since they are born, assassins are the most dangerous foe one can face in the southern continent.
  • Guardian - Forgemaster: The tournament has gathered an incredible host of heroes from all over the world, displaying exotic arts never seen before. Such is the way of the forge mastery, an ancient jotun technique. Summoning whole armories of weapons from their spirit forges, forgemasters are walking armies of floating weapons, handling multiple enemies at once with ease. They wield greataxes in battle, combined with various stances to position and control the formations of their floating weapons by their sides.
  • Revenant - Ritualist: The lands of Cantha are famous for their deep connection to the Mists, and the birthplace of the ritualist arts. Sharing that same connection, it is natural for revenants to follow in their path. These new teachings let them summon spirits connected to each of their legendary stances, strengthening their connection to each legend and its powers. Their weapon of choice is the scepter, and they have also learned to invoke the power of the legendary ritualist, Master Togo, summoning ashes to support their allies.
  • Warrior - Gladiator: What would be a tournament without some good old gladiatorial spectacle? Accompanied by bloodthirsty pit beasts equipped with forged combat armor from the fangs to the tail, the Zaishen warriors know the true meaning of every violent word spoken by man or god alike. They carry tridents into battle, with which they can hold their prey for their pets to feast on. Their faith on the god of war has only gotten stronger since his demise, and their mantras still echo the fiery power of the fallen god.

Fourth expansion - Plains of Golghein

The fourth expansion would lead us into a charr civil war, with the Blood Legion imperator Bangar Ruinbringer getting control of the remaining Flame Legion and rebelling against Ash and Iron Legions. Eight of these elite specializations are based on charr themes, two for each legion, and the ninth is based on Ascalonian culture.

  • Elementalist - Shaman: Under orders of the Supreme Imperator, the Flame Legion has started training their elementalists for all-out war. A shaman is always accompanied by an elementally-attuned effigy, a loyal pet that will serve as his bodyguard, crushing their enemies in close combat while his master focuses on the battlefield. They wield longbows into battle, using them to transform their elemental magic into a rain of death against their enemies. They support the front lines by summoning turret-like totems, which spread blessings to their allies and curses to their enemies.
  • Mesmer - Bladedancer: The mesmers of the Ash Legion are expert duelists. They move too fast for their illusions to keep track, so they have no use for shattering abilities. Leaving copies of themselves behind, they choose to replicate the weapons they are wielding, summoning illusory weapons instead, which are thrown against the enemy in a whirlwind of illusory fury. Bladedancers dance across the battlefield, mercilessly cutting down their enemies with their daggers. To top it off, they impregnate their blades with hallucinogenic venoms, sealing the fate of their victims.
  • Necromancer - Necrophage: The Blood Legion has resurrected their darkest banned ancient art, too terrible for even the Flame Legion to use. Necrophages feast on their enemies, harvesting their blood and flesh. Instead of channeling their powers into a shroud, they use them to rear their own fleshreaver servant, from youth to adulthood. This process creates a repugnant parent-children link between both, securing the loyalty of the demon. They wield greataxes to butcher their enemies efficiently, and chant mantras during their ritual sacrifices.
  • Engineer - Technopriest: The most closely kept secret of the Black Citadel, technopriests are religious zealots devoted to technology, revering all things machine as part of a greater purpose. They embrace dangerous techniques, like kit fusion, and wield scythes, usually geared with chainsaw blades. Their devotion to progress manifests through mantras, revering their dark gods. As long as their questionable methods keep yielding results, the black sheep of the Iron Legion will be allowed to run wild; far away from the public eye, of course. Charr need no gods, after all.
  • Ranger - Bloodhound: The rangers of the Blood Legion are a disciplined force of hunters, trained to strike down any target, be them beasts, enemy soldiers, or siege engines. Their pets undergo a special combat training, letting their masters deploy both pets at once, increasing their efficiency far above that of a normal ranger. Wielding crossbows into battle, they strike down their enemies from a safe distance, under the cover of various deception skills. The plains remain untamed, even after centuries of charr occupation, and only the best can hunt there and return alive.
  • Thief - Changeling: The elite unit of the Ash Legion, changelings use secret ooze-based alchemy to blend with the shadows. They throw potions filled with their mysterious goo at the ground, creating pools of darkness, which they can merge with to either take shelter or teleport to different pools. This goo can be attached to an enemy's shadow as well, creating a mobile pool, and letting the changeling stalk and surprise attack said enemy. They wield a vial and various elixirs in battle, filled with beverages they can either drink or throw.
  • Guardian - Stormcaller: In times of need, every able soldier is conscripted for war, and the ghosts that haunt Ascalon are no exception. Stormcallers use forbidden magic to control and weaponize those cursed by the Foefire, summoning the ghostly army to their side. They honor the legacy of their name by wielding a warhorn into battle, using magic much like the one once used to defeat the charr in Rin, and summon ancient banners, rallying their ghostly companions around them. Be careful, though. The pact is tenuous, and the ghosts will not be fooled forever.
  • Revenant - Hierophant: The elders of the charr can borrow powers from the Mists, storing them into relics. These artifacts, each legend having one of its own, float besides them in battle, amplifying their magical capabilities. Hierophants wield spears in combat, impaling their targets from the distance. Their legend of choice is Imperator Bonfaaz Burntfur, one of the biggest heroes of the charr, revered by all legions. Using titan magic, he summoned the Searing that destroyed Ascalon, giving the charr their first victory after centuries of defeats against the humans.
  • Warrior - Dreadnought: Walking siege engines, dreadnoughts represent the pride and prestige of the Iron legion. Armed to the teeth, these soldiers carry heavy weapon kits into battle, deploying the likes of machine guns, heavy flamethrowers, or energy cannons, letting them sacrifice speed and mobility in exchange of additional firepower. Aside from their kit equipment, they are trained to use pistols in close combat, and carry a stack of mine traps, which they can place across the battlefield or to fortify their position.

Fifth expansion - Depths of Tyria

The fifth and final expansion deals with Jormag and Primordus, leading us north and underground. We have to look for clues as to how the dragons were defeated the previous time, so these elite specializations are based on the five ancient races. Two are based on dwarf, mursaat, forgotten, and jotun themes, and a single one is based on seer themes.

  • Elementalist - Monk: The monk arts disappeared from Tyrian society long ago, but the dwarves kept their oldest incarnation intact, improving it over the last two centuries. The peaceful figure of the past is gone, replaced by a stalwart chaplain fighting beside his brothers at the front lines, keeping them all alive as the battle goes on. Monks carry floating hammers by their side, consuming them to channel their healing powers. Their weapon of choice is the mace, wielded in both hands, and their classic prayers are now channeled through mantras.
  • Mesmer - Inquisitor: The high-ranking mesmers of the White Mantle were some of the most formidable foes Kryta ever faced, but they are no more, and their abilities now belong to the Shining Blade. Inquisitors wield these powers, letting them alter reality and turn the environment upside down into a deadly weapon. They wield rifles in battle, giving them the safe distance the zealots so often disregarded. They can manipulate their surroundings further, drawing pieces of debris from it to build constructs and send them to attack their enemies.
  • Necromancer - Swarmhost: The long-dead insectoid seers were able to communicate and coexist with multiple invertebrate creatures, going as far as to form a symbiotic relationship with them, whole colonies crawling under their skin. Swarmhosts follow their teachings, leading swarms of insects into battle, taking their classic role of minion mastery much further. They wield crossbows in combat, designed to immobilize their targets and leave them ripe for swarm consumption, and can increase their joint effectiveness by applying various venoms to both their bolts and their minions.
  • Engineer - Occultist: Many ancient civilizations were lost to time, their ruins and artifacts the only reminder of their existence. Some left dangerous technologies behind, locked gates that should not be opened by mortal hands. The most daring engineers, calling themselves occultists, dig the depths looking for these haunted treasures, and combine them into a sentient mechanical construct, called the gatekeeper, hosting powers beyond mortal comprehension. They command their otherworldly pet with a staff, and use stances to direct it further.
  • Ranger - Botanist: Unbeknownst to many, the jotun were great gardeners. Millennia ago, when the Elder Dragons first rose, they rushed to save and catalog multiple species of plants and animals, keeping them safe until the dragons went into sleep once again. Deep underground, they developed magic to grow them strong and healthy. Botanists carry with them a seed pouch full of magic plants, which they can throw and see hatch almost immediately. They use vials to nurture their seedlings, and summon wells to grow entire gardens out of thin air.
  • Thief - Spiritbinder: The surviving bandits and zealots of the White Mantle chase no money or goods, only souls. Using ancient mursaat and seer magic, spiritbinders carry floating bloodstone shards in combat, trapping the spirits of their enemies inside, to then blow them to pieces with their maces and consume the resultant magical reaction; all while chanting demonic mantras to celebrate their heresy. The mursaat may be long gone, but the faith of their most ardent followers will never die, as long as their corrupted hearts still beat.
  • Guardian - Paragon: The original Elonian arts of the paragon were lost to time after Palawa Joko's ascent. However, newfound forgotten relics may pave the way for a glorious return. Paragons channel guardian powers with a blaze of fury, temporarily ascending and transforming into a winged flaming avatar of wrath, striking fear into the enemies of everything that is pure. They carry tridents in combat, cleaving their enemies in half with every strike, and channel their remaining fury through wells of light, supporting their allies and consuming their enemies.
  • Revenant - Stargazer: The jotun had an extensive knowledge of astrology during the ancient times. Their sages watched the skies, trying to foresee future events, including the rise of the Elder Dragons. Stargazers can channel the magic of the stars, becoming one with the sky to temporarily upgrade their weapon skills. Their weapon of choice is the greatsword, used to open rifts between the worlds. They commune with the Spirits of the Wild by channeling the power of Asgeir Dragonrender, the legendary norn hero who faced Jormag and survived to tell the tale.
  • Warrior - Thunderlord: Once upon a time, the greatest warriors among the dwarves commanded the powers of the mountain against their enemies. Blessed by their ancient gods, they built the dwarven fortress of Thunderhead Keep, beginning a new era of prosperity for the dwarven race. Thunderlords mark the ground with runic magic, attracting storms to strike their runes and any fools nearby. They wield scepters in combat, using them as lightning rods to further channel the storm. They never go into battle without a good barrel of elixirs, more potent than common ale.

Well, that's it! Hope you liked them, and if you have any feedback or questions, feel free to post them here =).

Same thread at reddit.


Same elite spec ideas, in the context of a redesign:

Elementalist - Mesmer - Necromancer - Engineer - Ranger - Thief - Guardian - Revenant - Warrior

Comments

  • czerwoni.9563czerwoni.9563 Member ✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    As an ele main, I skimmed over the ele proposals. And found none of them having any actual relevance to being an elementalist. Dervish? Shaman? Monk? Come on.

    i would rather go with storm sorc, shadow sorc, and arcane trickster

    you say mesmer i say shadow sorcerer

  • Drakz.7051Drakz.7051 Member ✭✭

    I think Dervish would be more appropriate for a Guardian. Since lore wise the Dervish can no longer exist the Guardians could learn how to use the scythe from forgotten texts and instead of using power granted by the gods they'd use their own form of magic instead or a Revenant since they could use the spirit of a former sunspear.

    Arcane trickster mentioned above sounds like a great idea for an ele.

  • yoni.7015yoni.7015 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 2, 2018

    Botanist? lol
    But some ideas are good.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If revenant ever got ritualist and not necromancer I'd be extremely upset. So much lore and rivalry wasted. So much build diversity potential squandered.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Drakz.7051 said:
    I think Dervish would be more appropriate for a Guardian. Since lore wise the Dervish can no longer exist the Guardians could learn how to use the scythe from forgotten texts and instead of using power granted by the gods they'd use their own form of magic instead or a Revenant since they could use the spirit of a former sunspear.

    Arcane trickster mentioned above sounds like a great idea for an ele.

    Trickster has a certain "thief" ring about it. And arcane-focused specialization should be more wizardly IMO, though that's not quite fitting for the elementalist either. Much better than monk, however.

  • dontlook.1823dontlook.1823 Member ✭✭✭

    I liked most of the ideas for new elite specs. Some were a little off putting like the ele ones mentioned ( with the exception of the summoner centric one). But the best part about this was the lore and clip of back story for each new spec. If anet could manage to do the same in the future I think that would increase people's interest to play other professions. After reading a few of these professions alone im already professions i dont normally play.

    More, more. More is always better. Chakata

  • ArmageddonAsh.6430ArmageddonAsh.6430 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The game wont last this many more expansions imo. I think we will likely see one more expansion before they start (if they havent already done so...) on Guild Wars 3. The problem will be with just how poorly thought out many aspects of Guild Wars 2 has been that i dont think Guild Wars 3 would be able to pull in as many people as Guild Wars 2 did. It would take weeks, if not months after release for those burned by Anets decisions in the past to possibly be tempted back.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Technopriest sounds bloody amazing. As a fan of WH40K, I love the reference. If this were to be, I'd probably swap that to be my main. ^^

  • Orpheal.8263Orpheal.8263 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 3, 2018

    I have to say for my opinion are most of these ideas nonsense sadly and don't like them, because they are either based on the core class and theme completely unfitting, have terrible names, partwise totaly unfitting names, or have absolutely no chance at all to ever see the day of light like Paragon and Dervish - when will people stop it about these two. Paragon is nothign but just everythign what the Guardian already is, the GW1 version absolutely offers nothing at all, what the Warrior, nor the Guardian already provide in a superior way!
    Just some examples of your very weird ideas ...:

    Occultists as Engineer E Spec... Do you even know, what an Occultist is??
    Just in case you dont't, a Necromancer is an Occultist, a Ritualist is an Occultist, but absolutely not in any way, shape or form ever an Engineer.
    Occultism has to do with blood, death, spirits, souls, rituals, demons, curses and hexes, dark magic so to say and is not anything that has to do with technology and engineering...

    Thieves and Soulbinders..eh what?? since when have thieves powers to bind soukls, which is basically what Necromancers do ... if at all, or a Ritualist does/did back in GW1..

    Technopriest, ..makes as name absolutely no sense and sounds totally terrible .. Technomancer in fact makes more sense !! Thats the correct fantasy term for such a kind of class!

    Inquisitor makes for mesmer absolutely no sense, for a Guardian Spec maybe..cause an Inquisitor is no illusionist or so of any kind of form.. an Inqusitor is comparable with a Sentinel, like some kind of law enforcer who hunts down people for heresy performing blasphemism in front of others, and back in history, when the church has had more power to the point, that the teachings of the church were seen like "everybodies highest law" to serve under those holy rules, the curch used its inquisitors to make sure, that this situation stays so and punish everybody for their disbeliefs..until the church came somewhen finally back to senses, that you cant punish people for it, only because they dont beleive in god, or have an other religion ...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisitor
    The closest alternative definition and term for Inquisitor is basically the Seeker as a class/spec name, which is in essence why I was strongly for it, that Dragonhunters should have been renamed into either Inquisitors or better even Seekers, due to these terms fitting much better to the overall gameplay and themse design of this Elite Spec ...

    To come to an end, if I would have made a topic like yours, I think I would have come up rather with a better fitting list concept like this. (with rev being redesigned) and certain earlier E-Specs getting renamed/changed)

    Expansion:-----------------3 (Land of the Dragons)-----4 (Wars of Demons and Gods)---- 5 (Age of Utopia)
    Warrior:--------------------Gladiator (Staff)----------------Berserker (Greataxe)-------------Legionnaire (Greatshield)
    Guardian:------------------Patron (Warhorn)-------------Warden (Greatshield)-------------Seeker (Whip)
    Revenant (Ritualist)-----Soulbinder (Whip)------------Mystic (Scepter)--------------------Oracle (Focus)
    Engineer:-------------------Alchemist (Axe)---------------Technomancer (Staff)------------Forgemaster (Mace)
    Ranger:---------------------Beastlord (Whip)--------------Shaman (Scepter)-----------------Forager (Greataxe)
    Thief:------------------------Assassin (Chakram)----------Rogue (Longbow)------------------Saboteur (Torch)
    Elementalist:---------------Summoner (Chakram)------Bender(Whip)----------------------Spellslinger (Pistols/Longbow)
    Necromancer:-------------Witcher (Sword)--------------Torturer (Whip)--------------------Executioner (Greataxe)
    Mesmer:--------------------Minstrel (Shortbow)---------Bladedancer (Chakram)----------Dreamcatcher (Whip)


    Cassandra Lancaster - Achievement Hunter - 28,9k AP currently - Server: Drakkar Lake/EU - Mastery Rank of 254
    I'm the proud Origin of the Elite Specializations Concept (Sub Classes) through the last made CDI Project.


  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I like some of the specialization you came up with, the one who caught my eye the most was Apothecary, particulary the "they are a danger to both themselves and anyone who opposes them", that's how necro is supposed to be.

    @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:
    The game wont last this many more expansions imo. I think we will likely see one more expansion before they start (if they havent already done so...) on Guild Wars 3. The problem will be with just how poorly thought out many aspects of Guild Wars 2 has been that i dont think Guild Wars 3 would be able to pull in as many people as Guild Wars 2 did. It would take weeks, if not months after release for those burned by Anets decisions in the past to possibly be tempted back.

    I don't think ANet will ever do a Guild Wars 3, and the last part of your comment reasons why. Not many people will fall again for a game set to die after 3 expansions.
    If ANet will do a new game it will either be a new franchise or GW1 remake/remaster/hd imo.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @Drakz.7051 said:
    I think Dervish would be more appropriate for a Guardian. Since lore wise the Dervish can no longer exist the Guardians could learn how to use the scythe from forgotten texts and instead of using power granted by the gods they'd use their own form of magic instead or a Revenant since they could use the spirit of a former sunspear.

    Most of dervish magic is earth and air elemental magic. Their connection to the gods is pretty insignificant in the big picture, but for some reason non-GW1 players have that misconception about the profession.

    @Lily.1935 said:
    If revenant ever got ritualist and not necromancer I'd be extremely upset. So much lore and rivalry wasted. So much build diversity potential squandered.

    Why would necromancers get it? In any case, it would be guardian, since lore-wise, their profession comes from ritualists and monks.

    @Yannir.4132 said:
    Technopriest sounds bloody amazing. As a fan of WH40K, I love the reference. If this were to be, I'd probably swap that to be my main. ^^

    I see you're a man of culture as well =D.

    @Orpheal.8263 said:
    Inquisitor makes for mesmer absolutely no sense, for a Guardian Spec maybe..cause an Inquisitor is no illusionist or so of any kind of form..

    You're pretty out of tune with word meanings in fantasy, but Inquisitor not being mesmer enough has to be your worst assumption, considering High Inquisitor Xera is a major representative ingame.

  • Orpheal.8263Orpheal.8263 Member ✭✭✭

    @ Lonami: that is just 1 single character, which exists only as part of raids in PvE. Raids are not the main canon of this game, they are just only little side stories if at all.
    When you compare just the wiki description of what an Inquisitor really is, or better said was, based on REAL HISTORY, it just makes no sense that a Inquisitor gets represented as a mesmer - they'd be clearly if at all Guardians...
    However, we two have completely different concept styles.. you seem to like to put as much game lore as possible into your concepts, regardless if that makes historically sense, or not.
    I'm a bit different. I do put historical facts if there exist some, first on priority list, when it comes to class names, then comes fantasy and lore to fill up the gaps for easier explanations after that.. otherwise I can't explain myself your weird concept of calling an engineer spec an occultist for example ... ortrying to make suddenly out of the Elementalist Monks, which were already in GW1 two completely different classes and not suddenly one and the same thing ....


    Cassandra Lancaster - Achievement Hunter - 28,9k AP currently - Server: Drakkar Lake/EU - Mastery Rank of 254
    I'm the proud Origin of the Elite Specializations Concept (Sub Classes) through the last made CDI Project.


  • Bast Bow.2958Bast Bow.2958 Member ✭✭
    edited May 4, 2018

    Hey Lonami. First of all, I love your ideas. I was enthousiastic too when you posted your cantha expansion idea, and I’m not enthousiastic much anymore lately considering gw2. I find a round of applause well deserved for these specilizations.
    They’re very creative and I really love almost all of them. I especially like the first and last expansion ideas. As a ranger main I’m loving all 3 ideas of swarming pets, having both active at the same time, and botanist as well, botanist is awesome!

    It’s obvious you intertwined gw 1 lore into these ideas, that really gives me a gw 1 nostalgia feel. It also makes me feeling all gw 1 professions should be in 1 expansion, not divided in two. But I am following why you did it the way you did, and I’m hoping very much more gw1 professions will make it into gw2 as a specilisation.

    I’m not a big fan of the second exp-idea. The charr technology in GW2, even though I think it fits very well and it’s written very good as well, is just not my taste.

    Again, thanks a lot for these awesome ideas. I’m hoping Anet will take a peek into them and maybe more.

  • kolompi.1287kolompi.1287 Member ✭✭

    @Orpheal.8263 A technopriest makes absolutely sense, so much so that it already exists in another franchise. It's not even far-fetched to worship technology.

    And as for mesmers getting a shortbow… could we stop trying to give a "duelist" class a shortbow? Axe and shield are already borderline stupid and not quite fitting, but shortbow?

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    If revenant ever got ritualist and not necromancer I'd be extremely upset. So much lore and rivalry wasted. So much build diversity potential squandered.

    Why would necromancers get it? In any case, it would be guardian, since lore-wise, their profession comes from ritualists and monks.

    There are Several reasons why Necromancer is the best fit for a Ritualist elite specialization as opposed to something else like Guardian or Revenant. Lets start with the easiest to the more difficult.
    1. The ritualist is a light armored Profession. The armor's available in the game can be matched athletically with ritualist to some extent in light armor.
    2. The Ritualist was known for exaggerated body movements in a sort of ritualistic dance in order to summon the spirits of the dead. Heavy armor isn't as flexible as light armor.
    3. Many of the ritualist's magic is already applied to the necromancer. It was split up between GW1 and GW2. You're thinking of Spirit weapons, but the necromancer has many of their talents and many of the talents they've always had have been very similar to the ritualist. Necromancers call on spirits to aid them in battle already. Shades themselves are lost spirits of the desert.
    4. Of the 9 professions there are only 2 that are directly known to be able to Rip holes directly into the underworld and realm of torment were dead spirits go. Revenant and Necromancer. The Necromancer has had this talent for centuries in the lore and has recently been shown to be very capable of this ability directly with the Skill Ghastly Breach. But we can see Evidence of the necromancer calling from the underworld as well with a skill like Grasping Dead or Summon Shadow Fiend. But that's not the only examples of this either. Spectral skills call on otherworldly energies which is in their description.
    5. In the story we see Necromancer priests of Grenth summoning spirits and even an event of a necromancer separating souls of children charr.
    6. The Ritualist is a Death mage as is the necromancer. Both professions in GW1 and GW2 use death magic. While their use of the magic may differ slightly it comes from the same source of magic. While the necromancer's magic is focused on the rotting and reanimation most the time, the Ritualist focuses on rupturing souls and binding spirits against their will. But this isn't to say the Necromancer isn't capable of binding souls to our world. They absolutely can and have done it in GW2.
    7. The Ritualist is a healer support spec. The Guardian and Revenant already have solid healer options. Its arguable that Scourge is a healer spec but it doesn't quite have the right tools. The ritualist with its change to Shroud into an Urn could easily turn a necromancer into a very potent healer elite spec with its accesses to protective and offensive spirits.
    8. The ritualist is a summoner. Both Necromancer and Ritualist are known as the Summoner classes of GW1. And for good reason. Their unique abilities functioned very well with each other and it was one of the few cross class combinations that preformed spectacularly. The Ritualist Minion Bomber build was one of the most interesting and potent builds one could use with skills like Explosive growth. A Guardian or Revenant couldn't provide this unique experience while the necromancer could and still provide the healer and spirit spammer experience.
    9. The necromancer already has traits that could be slightly reworked in Death and Blood Magic to aid in the aspects of Summoning Spirits. Vampiric, A trait that gives the necromancer life stealing and their minions could be retolled to also include Spirits. Which would be reminiscent of Spirit leach aura back in GW1. While the Minion Traits could be reworked to function more as generic Summoning Traits to further enable the summoner's combination. The necromancer has the space for the Ritualist to flourish where as the other professions lack that space specifically.

    Those are a few reasons, from Least important to more important. But lets get a closer look at some Lore and text on the two professions, shall we?
    "Practitioners of the dark arts, necromancers summon minions, wield the power of ritual, and heal themselves with blood magic. Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

    "Life Force
    Life force is a special type of energy that necromancers draw from their enemies. Once they’ve collected enough life force, necromancers can activate their Death Shroud, entering a spirit form. Life force can be gathered from certain weapon attacks and especially from deaths that happen near the necromancer."

    "Wells
    By performing rituals, necromancers create wells of dark power to torture their enemies and support their allies."

    ~ https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/necromancer/

    "Necromancers , calling on the spirits of the dead, and even death itself, to overpower enemies and assist allies. In sacrificing Health and taking curses and diseases upon themselves, they can deal large amounts of damage to those foolish enough to oppose them. Dead and dying enemies become unwilling allies in their hands. Necromancers have the singular ability to absorb Energy from an enemy’s death, and can raise a fighting force from the corpses of their foes. Curses, which often cost the Necromancer dearly, exact an even greater toll from enemies, who find that their Enchantments and healing skills are rendered useless. Due to the sacrificial nature of their methods, Necromancers must practice patience and self-discipline to survive."

    — The Guild Wars Manuscripts
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Necromancer

    "Ritualists channel other-worldly energies that summon allies from the void and employ mystic binding rituals that bend those allies to the Ritualist's will. They hood their eyes to better commune with spirits that grant great power and protection to Ritualists and their comrades. The energy they channel drives Ritualist skills which enhance the deadliness of an ally's weapon and wreak havoc on an enemy's health. The Ritualist can also use the remains of the dead to defend the living-not by reanimating corpses as a Necromancer would, but through the ritual use of urns and ashes. Where the Ranger lives as one with the spirit world, the Ritualist can and will be its master."

    — The Guild Wars Factions Manuscripts
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ritualist

    One of the Controversies surrounding Ritualist back in GW1 when factions was released was just how Similar in theme it was to the necromancer. Many felt that they shouldn't have been a separate class at all and their lore seems to support this. The way the Ritualist is described almost seems out of spite more than anything trying to differentiate itself from the necromancer when in fact many of their magic is very very similar.
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Offering_of_Blood
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Offering_of_Spirit

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mark_of_Pain
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Painful_Bond

    Really don't want to go through all the examples... Consume Soul, Soul feast. The skills are fairly similar in design and function, while the Necromancer uses Corpses, the Ritualist uses souls. But We've established that the necromancer's Mechanic, Soul reaping, Is feeding on souls. But it seems that Ritualist Soul feasting is weaker than necromancers.

    Another Interesting thing I'd like to note while looking up this old information was something really really telling about the necromancer. The Old Minions skills the necromancer once Summoned were called "Animate" skills. You "Animate Bone Minions" as opposed to now where its "Summon Bone minions" Which implies that the new minions are not of this world. Just an interesting flavor note I'd like to drop.

    The Evidence in favor of necromancer is overwhelming. No other two classes have so much in common. They really need to just tie the knot.

  • Laila Lightness.8742Laila Lightness.8742 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ele cant be a monk the closest thing to monk we have is guardian (its just monk/paragon in disguise)XD

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2018

    Some of these are cool. Some are do not fit the class. Also, thief assasin is what power rev shiro is.

    Fun read and good effort.

  • Leo G.4501Leo G.4501 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Orpheal.8263 said:
    Occultists as Engineer E Spec... Do you even know, what an Occultist is??
    Just in case you dont't, a Necromancer is an Occultist, a Ritualist is an Occultist, but absolutely not in any way, shape or form ever an Engineer.
    Occultism has to do with blood, death, spirits, souls, rituals, demons, curses and hexes, dark magic so to say and is not anything that has to do with technology and engineering...

    Honestly, that sounds like a challenge.

    In my days playing City of Heroes, that's, like, 80% of where the creativity goes: into thinking of new, varied, wild, unique and logical ways to play around with character looks, builds and origins. Granted, GW2 has a more stringent grasp on the origins of its powers, don't ever take options off the table. In fact, because it is a common fact that magic exists in Tyria, it should very well be possible to blend technology and magic (and not just the way Asura do).

    While the name can definitely be a point of contention, the basic concept is not. You just have to spin a story and logic around it.

    To come to an end, if I would have made a topic like yours, I think I would have come up rather with a better fitting list concept like this. (with rev being redesigned) and certain earlier E-Specs getting renamed/changed)

    Expansion:-----------------3 (Land of the Dragons)-----4 (Wars of Demons and Gods)---- 5 (Age of Utopia)
    Warrior:--------------------Gladiator (Staff)----------------Berserker (Greataxe)-------------Legionnaire (Greatshield)
    Guardian:------------------Patron (Warhorn)-------------Warden (Greatshield)-------------Seeker (Whip)
    Revenant (Ritualist)-----Soulbinder (Whip)------------Mystic (Scepter)--------------------Oracle (Focus)
    Engineer:-------------------Alchemist (Axe)---------------Technomancer (Staff)------------Forgemaster (Mace)
    Ranger:---------------------Beastlord (Whip)--------------Shaman (Scepter)-----------------Forager (Greataxe)
    Thief:------------------------Assassin (Chakram)----------Rogue (Longbow)------------------Saboteur (Torch)
    Elementalist:---------------Summoner (Chakram)------Bender(Whip)----------------------Spellslinger (Pistols/Longbow)
    Necromancer:-------------Witcher (Sword)--------------Torturer (Whip)--------------------Executioner (Greataxe)
    Mesmer:--------------------Minstrel (Shortbow)---------Bladedancer (Chakram)----------Dreamcatcher (Whip)

    Meh, mostly generic names but naming is really only the small part of the concept. I personally think stringently sticking to the "one word" or "mash two words together" convention is too limiting if we're going to sell these things by name alone from the concept phase.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2018

    @Orpheal.8263 said:
    Necromancer:-------------Witcher (Sword)--------------Torturer (Whip)--------------------Executioner (Greataxe)

    So As a necromancer main none of these actually fit the necromancer's lore or theme. An "Executioner" would be better suited for Revenant due to them channeling legends. Necromancers themselves were Priests and Ritualists Not Executioners. Torturer equally doesn't make much sense as if their is torture involved with their Magic, its not their goal but a side effect. Witcher... I.. Ugh.. I'm not even sure how that would fit.

    Here are some better fits.
    1. Ritualist
    2. Witch
    3. Shaman
    4. Warlock
    5. Lich
    6. Sangromancer/Vampire

    I as a necromancer main have absolutely zero interest in playing a warrior. And plus we've already got that with Reaper. I started a Necromancer so I could summon spirits and reanimate corpses while inflicting the flesh of the living and cause necrosis in their bodies.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2018

    I love engineers and these specs sound interesting, you got all my attention! Golemancer, Technopriest.... GENIUS It makes me feel like we are in warhammer 40k (Universe that I love very much by the way) But , I feel sad that mesmers will be named Inquisitor, What came to my mind is rifle/ hammer / double pistol, so an base/scrapper Engineer is for me an Inquisitor! and in w40k they only use engineer weapons (sword/pistol/shield/hammer/rifle) and for that I will ask for Engineer to earn the access to Short-Bow, which could have a crossbow skin. Which skills? simple: Explosive/Electric arrows, covering a great cone surface with multiple arrows. Create force-fields and so on... But the engineer would also use his bow as a launcher for grenades as example, so a substitution for Grenades kits and Increase the mobility of the class. Engie is very CC centered apart rifle / double pistols, all specs don't have ranged weapons: Hammer or shield-sword, eventually sword-pistol but not very great. And between us, base engie: the rifle is weak.
    So against Occultist. 3 future suggested weapons: -Staff (Golemancer) -Axe (Technopriest) -Short Bow (Inquisitor/rogue)
    Techno priest is okay, according to the fact they are taking care of technologies/weapons like a real person.

    The great question is, for golemancer, do you have an golem near you that you can control like a ranger pet, OR you are the golem/inside? And so you have a skill like deadeye to switch between normal form- golem form?

    Apart that, I took a look on thieves and Warriors: Great Ideas, nothing to add.
    Dreadnought? W40k again surely :p

    http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Inquisitor
    To make it more clear about inquisitor, they are no link with mesmers apart maybe psychic-controlled weapon but again, that is technology.
    Can't imagine a mesmer with a rifle.

    To end my comment, great job and initiative for making this post!

    +++In creative mood. New Engie Elite spec' , Housing , New asuran expansion , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    +++NEW: AEP Asuran Expansion Project available on WIKI.
    +++New: GEM GW2 Exploration Map: Discover unusual places around tyria: Here (OSM map)

  • Orpheal.8263Orpheal.8263 Member ✭✭✭

    @kolompi.1287
    A technopriest makes no sense.. a technomancer yes, thats the correct term!!
    Technomancer is the term for a specialized class, who combines Technology together with Magic Spells to fuse both techniques together, to perform this way skills, that both abilities alone wouldnt be possible. A Technomancer is in fact, what a Weaver does with two Elements within the School of Magic, a Technomancer combines the Schools of Magic with the Technologies of Science, that has absolutely nothing to do at all with RELIGION, so where does this nonsense about priests come from???

    @Leo G.4501
    Like said, my Class names may sound maybe for one or another "generic", but they are at least all, but some exceptions all proper class theme fitting terms with names, that are based around the core class and their gameplay elements and try not to make suddenly out of the core classes somethign totally different, which makes absolutely no sense at all, like Elementalist > Monk or Engineer > Occultist , which are terms that are totally out of touch of the overall class theme from the core class.
    I take class names very seriously. Class Names have to sound at like like some halfway proper, not immersion breaking, core class theme fitting profession terms, like jobs that sound reasonable, that you can learn somethign like that to become as one of the playable intelligent races, as if it would be some kind of halfway normal "job" in a world like Tyria. There is too much fantasy involved in class names never good, nor way too much lore also as well, which is why its always best to make class concepts fiurst and foremost always best on historical facts, fantasy and lore is then just only the flesh on the bones, and not the other way around.

    A Rogue may sound on first sight very generic, but its not the generic name of a class, which makes the difference between games, its in the end still the gameplay concept and what a class can do, besides of it having maybe a generic term as E-Spec.
    However, to see Rogues in GW2, would make much more sense, than to see something weird and totally unfitting imo running around, like "Changelings?" or suddenly wannabe necro-thieves as "Soulbinders?" like what ??
    Stuff like that makes me personally only cringe hard and roll my eyes, turning me off to ever continue playing the game, cause it just doesnt fit to the rest of the classes, would I see such things ingame, unlike as when it would be E-Specs, that do fit actully to the core class theme and have generic, more on historical facts based class terms like Rogues and Saboteurs, which are per concept based on specializing exactly on things of what the core class does already - Stealing/Boon Stealing/Sharing & Disarming as like also Trap Control, Manipulations, stronger CC focus and fightign fire with fire as basically one of the biggest classical thief combat strategies, to use, what the enemy has agaisnt themself, what is an Saboteurs highest speciality, very especially against minions and turrets.

    Spinning locic and story around all these 27 terms would have exploded the thread, tmi ;) Thats why also Lonami made on these 27 concepts just only very concise descriptions, and not fully fleshed out explanations full of flavor text to give each concept your wanted story and logic around everything.
    By I agree with your last words.. naming a class is only a small part, in the end the most important thing of a concept, is, that class name, and class gameplay should be congruent, if the one thing or the other feels incongruent to the other side, because the name feels not fitting to the gameplay, or the gameplay not to the name, because of the effects being not, what you would personally expect from a specialization with name "X", then thats not good. Something, on which I personally alway try to put very heavy emphasis on in my own personal concepts. Always have first the name in mind, and then concept the gameplay, skilsl & co around the name, to make everythign fit to the name of the class concept - thats the way how one makes sure a concept is in the end also congruent to its class name term.

    @Lily.1935

    I have to disagree with you, because under your logic wouldn't fit Reapers also to the game. aside of this, under my concept list doesn't exist this garbage, called Revenant, anymore, but would have been completely redesigned into an own Ritualist Class, as 9th Class, and be handled basically the same way, how anet handled both Necromancer and Ritualist also too back in GW1, where Ritualists, besides of being occultists like Necromancers, where also their own Class.
    Yes, personally I'd like to see Ritualists also as well as a Necromancer E-Spec, would appreciate this also as well, but if i would have to decide over my priorities, if either Ritu E-Spec, or Ritu as own Class to get rid of this Revenant-Junk, then I'd always choose rather to turn Ritualist as part of a Revenant redesign into an own Class, that has turned within the last 250 years within the mists from a light armored scholar profession into a heavy armored dark mage which uses ash urns instead of the legendary stance nonsense, to make usage temporarely of heroic "Auras" ... that you can place if you want around like banners, so that you can share this way your heroic Auras with others, instead of lettign it be such selfish stance gameplay, like the revenant-kitten that we have now ...

    A Witcher is a necromancer, who is heaviliy specialized into Curses and uses the Engineer Gameplay Element of Elixiers to buff themself with all kinds of necrotic powers that only the experienced body of a Witcher can survive, that would negatively harm everybody else, who is not a witcher.
    They would add also back as unique gameplay special Condition Versions that count as "Hexes" from GW1. So called "Cursed Conditions" from hexes have the speciality, that they are harder to remove , but they have also negative effects on you so long you keep them up and so more you use of them at the same time, with some kind of negative effects, which can only be temporarely neutralized by your Witcher Elixiers!! Witchers can you basically describe as Demonslayers/hunters, they are very skileld swordsmen, which make usage of necrotic oils of all sorts to enhance this way their combat efficiency. They are able to make usage of the Cursed Shroud, that allows them to make usage of said oils to enhance their combat skills with them and share them basically like venoms work.
    This spec is in fact basically a homage to Geralt of Rivia, the Witcher from the polish Witcher game and Novelbook Series from CD Project Red, because it would fit so much to the necromancer gameplay as an alternative to the Reaper.

    In GW Necromancers Torturers enjoy the pain of their victims and draw their powers out of that, to make their victims suffer as much pain as possible. Torture and Torment, thats basically in a nutshell the essence of SPITE, which is part of the Necromancer!! and the highest form of specialization into spite, a Necromancer can get!!

    And Executioner is in fact similar to a Reaper, just that their weapon of choice is a more brutish greataxe and that their gameplay is more specialized on soul reaping and blood magic as executioners, whiel the Reaper is more based on Death Magic due to lore reasons cause as Reaper you belong basically to Grenth's Elite Champions which protect the Underworld under his reign and act as Death Guides for lost souls, like basically what happens to us self, when we were at the brink of death as wandering souls ...wouldn' there have been a Reaper of Grenth, to judge over us, if we may return back to live, or not ...

    Your examples don't fit.. a Lich and a Vampire are no classes, it are no professions that you can learn how to become one by yourself, it are undead creatures. Somethign liek this can't be called a Class.. buts thats a common mistake that really alot of people make conceptionally wise sadly, that people can't tell, when something is a class, a race/species, or just a creature/monster.. people tend to mix these things together as they see fit ...

    Witch is basically nothing else, but the female short term for a Witcher, but Witcher is the better fitting unisex term for that kind of profession, because it can be used on both races as class term.
    When you call a witch, you will always think and associate with it only a female riding on brooms with a cat on their huge black hats and eventually warts on their noses ...thats kind of the standard child definition maybe of a witch, but not what i'd expect to be from a female Witcher as a dark demonslayers that are specialized in the usage of Curses and Elixiers in combat together with their experienced sword skills with that they hunt down the evil things in Tyria

    Shamans are not really Occultists.. they are Naturalists. Eremites so to say... thats also why you have Shamans amogn the Norn, cause they use the shamanistic powers of nature and animals, iE. here Naimal Spirits. What you are kind of thinking over is most likely the "Voodo Shaman", which is the more occultic sub form of that, which makes usage of dark rites and dark magic, like curses to kind of manipulate their victims, get possesion over them or something, so that they can take control over them or that something...but shamans to be pidgeonholed in general as occultists under the Necronmancer would be wrong. Here are real facts, fantasy and even lore much stronger on the side of the Ranger to make Shaman a Ranger Spec using Scepters focuses on Animal/Insect Control and Totems as some kind of environemental gameplay aspect from which the Ranger could profitate from more.

    Warlocks would fit, here I agree on, and could be in fact based on the concept design an alternative for the Executioner, if they'd use Shouts
    However, the Reaper makes already usage of Shouts, so wouldn't be Reaper already there as a lore based spec, then id potentially say, I'd redesign the Reaper into being Warlocks basically ;) cause that would make for that spec the most sense to me, if we would want just to remove the lore from that E-Spec which has been bonded to its design, because then we would end up in fact with Reapers turning into Warlocks simply.


    Cassandra Lancaster - Achievement Hunter - 28,9k AP currently - Server: Drakkar Lake/EU - Mastery Rank of 254
    I'm the proud Origin of the Elite Specializations Concept (Sub Classes) through the last made CDI Project.


  • Orpheal.8263Orpheal.8263 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2018

    About Golemancers...

    This can't work as Class for all, it makes sense lorewise only as a Asura only Racial E-Spec
    Something lile that would become same as much wasted time, effort and ressourses in the end only, which exists maybe only for flavor then, like Racial Skills do.
    Thats the same exact reason, why Monks and Dervishs make absolutely no sense at all to have for other races, than Humans, because it are relgions profressions and from all professions are only the humans bonded to religion!!

    Charr despise everything that has to do with religion, it rembers them on their past and how weak their race was, when they followed their kind of own religion cult that was the Flame Legion and their Titans ... they see i nthe human gods also no gods at all, just only some powerful beings, but a Charr with some pride in his chest will never call somebody like Balthazar a "God",, for Charr Culture exists no religion anymore.

    Asura are the only race, which are intelligent and smart enough to control, construct and repair Golems.. its THEIR CULTURE TECHNOLOGY.. it would be absolutely immersion breakign beyong repairability of this game, woudl anet come up now with Golemancers as E-Specs for everybody.. just makes no sense and would harm this game more lorewise, than it woudl do this game anythign good at all. They also have no collection to religion, all that asuras can think of is their own superior eternal alchemy...

    It should be clear for everybody, that the moment where Anet decided to have for GW2 multiple different playable races with all their own cultures, that there simply can't exist then in this game any playable races with classes or E-Specs now, which contradict then any kind of those racial cultures, like Dervishs, like Golemancers, or like Monks do that.


    Cassandra Lancaster - Achievement Hunter - 28,9k AP currently - Server: Drakkar Lake/EU - Mastery Rank of 254
    I'm the proud Origin of the Elite Specializations Concept (Sub Classes) through the last made CDI Project.


  • Kas.3509Kas.3509 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2018

    I'd love mesmer to turn into bard-ish like buffero/healer. I love the idea with running around with intruments and sing(shout) as well and to be able to be as good healer as druid. That's the only thing mesmer does not offer yet.
    He already has a good power base builds, condi mirage spec, buffer/tank chrono spec.

    If not healer then I guess power spec... but I'd prefer to get healer one.

  • Brujeria.7536Brujeria.7536 Member ✭✭✭

    I like some of them mainly Botanist and Necrophage are neat.

  • @Orpheal.8263 said:
    About Golemancers...

    This can't work as Class for all, it makes sense lorewise only as a Asura only Racial E-Spec
    Something lile that would become same as much wasted time, effort and ressourses in the end only, which exists maybe only for flavor then, like Racial Skills do.
    Thats the same exact reason, why Monks and Dervishs make absolutely no sense at all to have for other races, than Humans, because it are relgions profressions and from all professions are only the humans bonded to religion!!

    Charr despise everything that has to do with religion, it rembers them on their past and how weak their race was, when they followed their kind of own religion cult that was the Flame Legion and their Titans ... they see i nthe human gods also no gods at all, just only some powerful beings, but a Charr with some pride in his chest will never call somebody like Balthazar a "God",, for Charr Culture exists no religion anymore.

    Asura are the only race, which are intelligent and smart enough to control, construct and repair Golems.. its THEIR CULTURE TECHNOLOGY.. it would be absolutely immersion breakign beyong repairability of this game, woudl anet come up now with Golemancers as E-Specs for everybody.. just makes no sense and would harm this game more lorewise, than it woudl do this game anythign good at all. They also have no collection to religion, all that asuras can think of is their own superior eternal alchemy...

    It should be clear for everybody, that the moment where Anet decided to have for GW2 multiple different playable races with all their own cultures, that there simply can't exist then in this game any playable races with classes or E-Specs now, which contradict then any kind of those racial cultures, like Dervishs, like Golemancers, or like Monks do that.

    Neither Monks nor Dervishes were exclusively Human in GW1. There were Dwarf, Norn and Charr monks, even in the explicitly atheist Fierce Warband. There was even a Naga monk called Ssuns, Blessed of Dwayna. Many Asura Golems and Djinn were Dervishes, and while the Avatar skills were usually only used by Human bosses, M.O.X. could use them and had special skins for them.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 13, 2018

    I changed the name of Soulbinder to Spiritbinder, which sounds far better, and doesn't overlap with Soulbeast.

    Also, feel free to check my redesign series, where these 27 ideas get explained a bit better, from a redesign perspective:

    Elementalist - Mesmer - Necromancer - Engineer - Ranger - Thief - Guardian - Revenant - Warrior

    So far, there's updates for necromancer, guardian, revenant, and warrior. The others will be coming soon when I have some free time.

    @Bast Bow.2958 said:
    Hey Lonami. First of all, I love your ideas. I was enthousiastic too when you posted your cantha expansion idea, and I’m not enthousiastic much anymore lately considering gw2. I find a round of applause well deserved for these specilizations.
    They’re very creative and I really love almost all of them. I especially like the first and last expansion ideas. As a ranger main I’m loving all 3 ideas of swarming pets, having both active at the same time, and botanist as well, botanist is awesome!

    It’s obvious you intertwined gw 1 lore into these ideas, that really gives me a gw 1 nostalgia feel. It also makes me feeling all gw 1 professions should be in 1 expansion, not divided in two. But I am following why you did it the way you did, and I’m hoping very much more gw1 professions will make it into gw2 as a specilisation.

    I’m not a big fan of the second exp-idea. The charr technology in GW2, even though I think it fits very well and it’s written very good as well, is just not my taste.

    Again, thanks a lot for these awesome ideas. I’m hoping Anet will take a peek into them and maybe more.

    Glad you liked them =).

    @Lily.1935 said:
    The Evidence in favor of necromancer is overwhelming. No other two classes have so much in common. They really need to just tie the knot.

    I prefer splitting undeath and death into different things, you know, zombies on one side, and ghosts in another. Necromancer was always about raw damage and corruption, while ritualist is more about support and positioning.

    I get your points, but for me, necromancer is incompatible theme-wise with ritualists. I think it would work better through guardian or revenant.

    @hugo.4705 said:
    The great question is, for golemancer, do you have an golem near you that you can control like a ranger pet, OR you are the golem/inside? And so you have a skill like deadeye to switch between normal form- golem form?

    It's a transformation, similar to the WvW golem, armed with just his fists. What makes it special is that you can equip kits while transformed, the fists retracting to be replaced by weapon heads.

    http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Inquisitor
    To make it more clear about inquisitor, they are no link with mesmers apart maybe psychic-controlled weapon but again, that is technology.
    Can't imagine a mesmer with a rifle.

    Inquisitor mesmers are based on the White Mantle inquisitors. High Inquisitor Xera is a mesmer, thus the link.

    Mesmers can already use pistols, so the rifle is a natural evolution.

    @Kas.3509 said:
    I'd love mesmer to turn into bard-ish like buffero/healer. I love the idea with running around with intruments and sing(shout) as well and to be able to be as good healer as druid. That's the only thing mesmer does not offer yet.
    He already has a good power base builds, condi mirage spec, buffer/tank chrono spec.

    If not healer then I guess power spec... but I'd prefer to get healer one.

    The biggest reason mesmer is getting a bard elite specialization is that, by using illusions, you could spawn your own orchestra, clones and phantasms playing various musical instruments together with you.

    The gameplay can then focus on correct timing of the skills, which would be like musical notes.

    @Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:

    @Orpheal.8263 said:
    About Golemancers...

    This can't work as Class for all, it makes sense lorewise only as a Asura only Racial E-Spec
    Something lile that would become same as much wasted time, effort and ressourses in the end only, which exists maybe only for flavor then, like Racial Skills do.
    Thats the same exact reason, why Monks and Dervishs make absolutely no sense at all to have for other races, than Humans, because it are relgions profressions and from all professions are only the humans bonded to religion!!

    Charr despise everything that has to do with religion, it rembers them on their past and how weak their race was, when they followed their kind of own religion cult that was the Flame Legion and their Titans ... they see i nthe human gods also no gods at all, just only some powerful beings, but a Charr with some pride in his chest will never call somebody like Balthazar a "God",, for Charr Culture exists no religion anymore.

    Asura are the only race, which are intelligent and smart enough to control, construct and repair Golems.. its THEIR CULTURE TECHNOLOGY.. it would be absolutely immersion breakign beyong repairability of this game, woudl anet come up now with Golemancers as E-Specs for everybody.. just makes no sense and would harm this game more lorewise, than it woudl do this game anythign good at all. They also have no collection to religion, all that asuras can think of is their own superior eternal alchemy...

    It should be clear for everybody, that the moment where Anet decided to have for GW2 multiple different playable races with all their own cultures, that there simply can't exist then in this game any playable races with classes or E-Specs now, which contradict then any kind of those racial cultures, like Dervishs, like Golemancers, or like Monks do that.

    Neither Monks nor Dervishes were exclusively Human in GW1. There were Dwarf, Norn and Charr monks, even in the explicitly atheist Fierce Warband. There was even a Naga monk called Ssuns, Blessed of Dwayna. Many Asura Golems and Djinn were Dervishes, and while the Avatar skills were usually only used by Human bosses, M.O.X. could use them and had special skins for them.

    Yeah, in GW1 every core profession except elementalist had skills related to one of the Six Gods. That doesn't mean the professions were exclusive to human religion at all, they just had some skills that happened to carry their blessings. Those who didn't play GW1 assume monks and dervishes wouldn't work without the gods, but that's a huge misconception, their link to the Six Gods was as strong as that of warriors, rangers, mesmers, and rangers.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    The Evidence in favor of necromancer is overwhelming. No other two classes have so much in common. They really need to just tie the knot.

    I prefer splitting undeath and death into different things, you know, zombies on one side, and ghosts in another. Necromancer was always about raw damage and corruption, while ritualist is more about support and positioning.

    They are compatible. Necromancer currently uses spirits. Shades are desert spirits. They are not physical as you put it, they are spiritual. The necromancer uses rituals. Its in the description for it on the official website. The necromancer of GW2 is less like GW1 necromancer than it probably should be in my opinion. Minions are no longer animated but summoned, likely from the underworld. But the undead constructs they make have always looked like horrors of the realm of torment. Which is some weird lore stuff we can get into another time since it has interesting implications about necromancer lore.

    Much of the way necromancer's Hexes worked in GW1 was that they'd use spirits to haunt their target. Spiteful Spirit fits this. The Theme makes sense, necromancer deals with souls, and so does Ritualist. And Necromancer is all about Undeath. Minions are Undead. Spirits are undead. You're really splitting hairs with a distinction that just isn't there.

    Want a lore example of a necromancer doing what a ritualist should be doing? Here https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory's_Story:_The_Last_Straw

    Interestingly, Marjory is Canthan. She uses Turquoise in her color scheme and communes with spirits. And her sister is bound to her family blade. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Seraph_Belinda_Delaqua

    If any character was to become a ritualist in the story, Marjory is your girl. She's got the history, the talent, and the right nationality. She is currently a necromancer, not a revenant. I know you like your pet idea that revenant should be it, but the evidence doesn't suggest that. What is shown is that the necromancer is the best fit. I've given other examples of their similarities that only necromancer and ritualist share that strengthens their connection.

    But even if that doesn't convince you a mechanical one might. Ritualists had a few things that defined them in GW1. One of those things neither a necromancer nor a Revenant can fill currently, but its too difficult a task to achieve on either. Spirit weapons is the first one and the one neither achieve mechanically. Although a necromancer or a revenant could be given a skill to cause a soul link to awaken the allies weapons, this isn't currently something in their design. Necromancers make soul links with their opponents to drain them, but that's not really what I'm talking about.
    Urns are another aspect of Ritualist that is important to their overall design. Ashes of a hero seems like it could fit the revenant thematically, but mechanically the mechanic of urns was replaced by Bundles. Or Engineer Kits. Something that can be held that replaces the first 5 skills. Now, mechanically the necromancer already has the perfect design fit for this. Shroud. Shroud is extremely similar to Kits in that it replaced the first 5 skills. Where it differs is the locking out of the user's utilities. A feature necromancer players have been fighting against for years. Its not a stretch at all to replace shroud with an urn. In fact the necromancer's specializations are very well equipped to support urns. On Revenant this mechanic would be awkward much like the Celestial avatar form is on Druid.
    Spirits are probably the most iconic aspect of Ritualist. And both necromancer and revenant could achieve spirits. But there is a major difference between the two. Revenant's turn over skills wouldn't exist for the spirits and they'd have to function much like the warband does on Kalla. The Revenant against struggles mechanically because of their reliance on utility swapping to maximize their abilities. Spirits would either force revenant to stay on whatever legend gives them in or be as genaric as Kalla's warband. In one case its more in line with what the ritualist's design wants but antithetical to the revenant's specialization design. On the other hand it works with the specialization's design but feels and behaves nothing like the ritualist's design that was intended for GW1. Either way its not a good compromise. Necromancer has none of these problems. In fact, the necromancer's design could be tightened up just a bit in blood and death to add even more flavor and utility to the spirits as they are. Because necromancer is a summoner profession already and the way part of blood and death are designed specifically for minions these traits could be streamlined to include other summons such as spirits. Vampirism was even a GW1 ritualist skill and could also be applied to Spirits along with minions. Minion traits could be merged and broken down into a single grand master while new traits could replace them to influence Summoning in its place, giving both Minions and spirits new utility.
    Spirits had 3 distinct play styles. Healer, Protector and Aggressor. To fit these themes into just 6 skills is quite the task, but absolutely could be done. The heal skill healing allies and sacrifice for a stronger burst heal. 2 offensive utility spirits that attack the enemies, 2 defensive utility spirits to defend against damage and conditions and the Elite skill which would have to be Call to the Spirit Realm which summons Multiple spirits. The currently CAN'T be done on Revenant with their 5 skill limit. But that's something I have been fighting against for a while so I won't count it against them since I want changes to necromancer as well. But to really pull out the flavor of the spirits they need their turn over skill to sacrifice themselves for unique abilities. Something the Revenant would struggle with but the necromancer could be right at home with. In fact the necromancer could even change the nature of how they're sacrificed based on if they are using their shourd/urn or not! Added utility and flavor that the revenant just can't do.
    There is also one more thing the ritualist was known for that I want to point out. And its the nail in the coffin for the revenant as it is something the revenant absolutely can never achieve. And that's the summoner's aspect. Not just calling spirits into the body, but the idea that the unique mechanic of the ritualist was Spawning power. This gave bonus health to All summoned creatures. Not just spirits but minions as well. And because of this the Ritualist was the only other profession to be trusted with the role of Minion master aside from Necromancer. Boon of creation and explosive growth were two Ritualist skills that modified their summoning to cause healing, damage and energy gain. Something that Comboed so well with necromancer that if Ritualist was its own profession players would be demanding that ritualist get a minion master elite specialization in the future. (Heck, the Egnineer, the ritualist's mechanical replacement in GW2 has been the topic of minion builds for a while now). This special theme of the ritualist can be filled if combine with necromancer. But only necromancer. The summoner's elements of the ritualist is best suited with the profession that supports that ideal best. Necromancer. And if Ritualist comes into the game at some point the best 2 options for it are either to make its own profession or to make it an elite specialization for necromancer.

  • @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:

    @Orpheal.8263 said:
    About Golemancers...

    This can't work as Class for all, it makes sense lorewise only as a Asura only Racial E-Spec
    Something lile that would become same as much wasted time, effort and ressourses in the end only, which exists maybe only for flavor then, like Racial Skills do.
    Thats the same exact reason, why Monks and Dervishs make absolutely no sense at all to have for other races, than Humans, because it are relgions profressions and from all professions are only the humans bonded to religion!!

    Charr despise everything that has to do with religion, it rembers them on their past and how weak their race was, when they followed their kind of own religion cult that was the Flame Legion and their Titans ... they see i nthe human gods also no gods at all, just only some powerful beings, but a Charr with some pride in his chest will never call somebody like Balthazar a "God",, for Charr Culture exists no religion anymore.

    Asura are the only race, which are intelligent and smart enough to control, construct and repair Golems.. its THEIR CULTURE TECHNOLOGY.. it would be absolutely immersion breakign beyong repairability of this game, woudl anet come up now with Golemancers as E-Specs for everybody.. just makes no sense and would harm this game more lorewise, than it woudl do this game anythign good at all. They also have no collection to religion, all that asuras can think of is their own superior eternal alchemy...

    It should be clear for everybody, that the moment where Anet decided to have for GW2 multiple different playable races with all their own cultures, that there simply can't exist then in this game any playable races with classes or E-Specs now, which contradict then any kind of those racial cultures, like Dervishs, like Golemancers, or like Monks do that.

    Neither Monks nor Dervishes were exclusively Human in GW1. There were Dwarf, Norn and Charr monks, even in the explicitly atheist Fierce Warband. There was even a Naga monk called Ssuns, Blessed of Dwayna. Many Asura Golems and Djinn were Dervishes, and while the Avatar skills were usually only used by Human bosses, M.O.X. could use them and had special skins for them.

    Yeah, in GW1 every core profession except elementalist had skills related to one of the Six Gods. That doesn't mean the professions were exclusive to human religion at all, they just had some skills that happened to carry their blessings. Those who didn't play GW1 assume monks and dervishes wouldn't work without the gods, but that's a huge misconception, their link to the Six Gods was as strong as that of warriors, rangers, mesmers, and rangers.

    Exactly - and the skills with references to the gods in their names were still used by non-human NPCs!

    Anyway, I was going to give some feedback about some of your ideas, but it mostly ended up being questions. Here they are:

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    • Elementalist - Dervish: The dervish arts of Elona were thought lost since long ago, but they have seen a resurgence after Palawa Joko's defeat. With the Six Human Gods gone, they have now turned back to their original roots, focusing exclusively on elemental magic. Their main ability is the transformation into djinn avatars, and their weapon of choice is the scythe, followed by wells to replace their now cast aside divine prayers. Holding strong at close combat, their newly acquired skills should not be underestimated.

    Despite what other people have said, I think Ele seems like a good choice for Dervish - especially with the link to djinn. How do you envisage this working? I guess the transformation would be on F5, and would depend on your current attunement. I'd like to see a transformation that interacts with your skills, like the old Dervish avatars did, rather than replacing your skillbar like GW2 transformations normally do. Ele isn't normally resilient enough for Dervish-style gameplay - maybe giving them something like the djinn's elemental armour mechanic could compensate for that? I'm imagining the wells would be somewhat like the old Mystic Twister and Mystic Sandstorm.

    • Thief - Assassin: Canthan culture is famous for many things, but the most shocking has to be their tolerance for paid murder. Death by unnatural causes is commonplace, and assassination is a refined art. Stealing is a petty maneuver when you can just gear yourself with all sort of deadly murder tools, like chains, claws, blowpipes, and more. When these tools are not enough, greatswords can finish the job quickly. Practicing combat stances since they are born, assassins are the most dangerous foe one can face in the southern continent.

    I'd love to see Assassin come back, but greatswords seem like a strange choice. What was your reasoning there? I'd be more inclined to go with axes, since they can plausibly have a fast attack speed and supposedly used to be used in GW1 Assassin builds for high critical hit chance. My favourite thing about GW1 Assassin was how the attack chains worked, and I'm not sure how you'd bring that into GW2, where attack chains are automated.

    • Revenant - Ritualist: The lands of Cantha are famous for their deep connection to the Mists, and the birthplace of the ritualist arts. Sharing that same connection, it is natural for revenants to follow in their path. These new teachings let them summon spirits connected to each of their legendary stances, strengthening their connection to each legend and its powers. Their weapon of choice is the scepter, and they have also learned to invoke the power of the legendary ritualist, Master Togo, summoning ashes to support their allies.

    Togo makes sense as a Canthan legend to invoke (although Saint Viktor, Archemorous and Kuunavang all seem like sensible choices too). Would you have any control over the spirits, like Scourges do over Shades? It seems like that could get very complicated while also controlling Ventari's tablet, but passive spirits might be too dull with the other legends.

    Overall, I think you've got some great thematic ideas, but there's not much about what the new skills and profession mechanics would actually be like, so I find it quite hard to judge what these would bring, gameplay-wise.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    The Evidence in favor of necromancer is overwhelming. No other two classes have so much in common. They really need to just tie the knot.

    I prefer splitting undeath and death into different things, you know, zombies on one side, and ghosts in another. Necromancer was always about raw damage and corruption, while ritualist is more about support and positioning.

    Want a lore example of a necromancer doing what a ritualist should be doing? Here https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory's_Story:_The_Last_Straw

    Interestingly, Marjory is Canthan. She uses Turquoise in her color scheme and communes with spirits. And her sister is bound to her family blade. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Seraph_Belinda_Delaqua

    If any character was to become a ritualist in the story, Marjory is your girl. She's got the history, the talent, and the right nationality. She is currently a necromancer, not a revenant. I know you like your pet idea that revenant should be it, but the evidence doesn't suggest that. What is shown is that the necromancer is the best fit. I've given other examples of their similarities that only necromancer and ritualist share that strengthens their connection.

    That's a pretty good point, but then I don't understand what's the point of the Scourge at all, since to some point shades already have the positioning gameplay you'd expect from a spirit master ritualist.

    I still prefer to split zombies and ghosts into two different things. Revenant has the ritualist title, the blindfold, and a few other things.

    @Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:

    @Orpheal.8263 said:
    About Golemancers...

    This can't work as Class for all, it makes sense lorewise only as a Asura only Racial E-Spec
    Something lile that would become same as much wasted time, effort and ressourses in the end only, which exists maybe only for flavor then, like Racial Skills do.
    Thats the same exact reason, why Monks and Dervishs make absolutely no sense at all to have for other races, than Humans, because it are relgions profressions and from all professions are only the humans bonded to religion!!

    Charr despise everything that has to do with religion, it rembers them on their past and how weak their race was, when they followed their kind of own religion cult that was the Flame Legion and their Titans ... they see i nthe human gods also no gods at all, just only some powerful beings, but a Charr with some pride in his chest will never call somebody like Balthazar a "God",, for Charr Culture exists no religion anymore.

    Asura are the only race, which are intelligent and smart enough to control, construct and repair Golems.. its THEIR CULTURE TECHNOLOGY.. it would be absolutely immersion breakign beyong repairability of this game, woudl anet come up now with Golemancers as E-Specs for everybody.. just makes no sense and would harm this game more lorewise, than it woudl do this game anythign good at all. They also have no collection to religion, all that asuras can think of is their own superior eternal alchemy...

    It should be clear for everybody, that the moment where Anet decided to have for GW2 multiple different playable races with all their own cultures, that there simply can't exist then in this game any playable races with classes or E-Specs now, which contradict then any kind of those racial cultures, like Dervishs, like Golemancers, or like Monks do that.

    Neither Monks nor Dervishes were exclusively Human in GW1. There were Dwarf, Norn and Charr monks, even in the explicitly atheist Fierce Warband. There was even a Naga monk called Ssuns, Blessed of Dwayna. Many Asura Golems and Djinn were Dervishes, and while the Avatar skills were usually only used by Human bosses, M.O.X. could use them and had special skins for them.

    Yeah, in GW1 every core profession except elementalist had skills related to one of the Six Gods. That doesn't mean the professions were exclusive to human religion at all, they just had some skills that happened to carry their blessings. Those who didn't play GW1 assume monks and dervishes wouldn't work without the gods, but that's a huge misconception, their link to the Six Gods was as strong as that of warriors, rangers, mesmers, and rangers.

    Exactly - and the skills with references to the gods in their names were still used by non-human NPCs!

    Anyway, I was going to give some feedback about some of your ideas, but it mostly ended up being questions. Here they are:

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    • Elementalist - Dervish: The dervish arts of Elona were thought lost since long ago, but they have seen a resurgence after Palawa Joko's defeat. With the Six Human Gods gone, they have now turned back to their original roots, focusing exclusively on elemental magic. Their main ability is the transformation into djinn avatars, and their weapon of choice is the scythe, followed by wells to replace their now cast aside divine prayers. Holding strong at close combat, their newly acquired skills should not be underestimated.

    Despite what other people have said, I think Ele seems like a good choice for Dervish - especially with the link to djinn. How do you envisage this working? I guess the transformation would be on F5, and would depend on your current attunement. I'd like to see a transformation that interacts with your skills, like the old Dervish avatars did, rather than replacing your skillbar like GW2 transformations normally do. Ele isn't normally resilient enough for Dervish-style gameplay - maybe giving them something like the djinn's elemental armour mechanic could compensate for that? I'm imagining the wells would be somewhat like the old Mystic Twister and Mystic Sandstorm.

    • Thief - Assassin: Canthan culture is famous for many things, but the most shocking has to be their tolerance for paid murder. Death by unnatural causes is commonplace, and assassination is a refined art. Stealing is a petty maneuver when you can just gear yourself with all sort of deadly murder tools, like chains, claws, blowpipes, and more. When these tools are not enough, greatswords can finish the job quickly. Practicing combat stances since they are born, assassins are the most dangerous foe one can face in the southern continent.

    I'd love to see Assassin come back, but greatswords seem like a strange choice. What was your reasoning there? I'd be more inclined to go with axes, since they can plausibly have a fast attack speed and supposedly used to be used in GW1 Assassin builds for high critical hit chance. My favourite thing about GW1 Assassin was how the attack chains worked, and I'm not sure how you'd bring that into GW2, where attack chains are automated.

    • Revenant - Ritualist: The lands of Cantha are famous for their deep connection to the Mists, and the birthplace of the ritualist arts. Sharing that same connection, it is natural for revenants to follow in their path. These new teachings let them summon spirits connected to each of their legendary stances, strengthening their connection to each legend and its powers. Their weapon of choice is the scepter, and they have also learned to invoke the power of the legendary ritualist, Master Togo, summoning ashes to support their allies.

    Togo makes sense as a Canthan legend to invoke (although Saint Viktor, Archemorous and Kuunavang all seem like sensible choices too). Would you have any control over the spirits, like Scourges do over Shades? It seems like that could get very complicated while also controlling Ventari's tablet, but passive spirits might be too dull with the other legends.

    Overall, I think you've got some great thematic ideas, but there's not much about what the new skills and profession mechanics would actually be like, so I find it quite hard to judge what these would bring, gameplay-wise.

    I don't like being too specific, because people then focus on meaningless things like numbers or usability, instead of the design. I'm writing more about them on each of these threads:

    Elementalist - Mesmer - Necromancer - Engineer - Ranger - Thief - Guardian - Revenant - Warrior

    Note that those are written in a redesign context, so some of them might be slightly different from what you see here, but the general idea stays the same.

    • Dervish: Mechanic skill F5 transforms you into your current attunement's djinn. It's pretty much an elemental Reaper Shroud, replacing weapon skills. Once transformed, you can switch attunements, switching your djinn's attunement as well. Once the transformation is over, all attunements get a considerate cooldown, so you better switch to the one you want before the transformation ends. The djinn form uses a new resource bar, which increases by applying boons to yourself or others.

    • Assassin: You get martial art kits. There's three to choose from: Chain Whip (Kusarigama / Meteor Hammer), Claws (Fist weapon), and Blowpipe (Ranged). They work like engineer kits, but are located at the mechanic bar. You can equip the one you prefer at mechanic skill F3. The core mechanic (Steal) remains unaffected by this upgrade. Greatswords are used like two-handed longswords (Nodachi). The assassin is less about stealth, and more about face-to-face combat.

    • Ritualist: You get a customizable belt, three slots (F2, F3, F4) where you can equip spirits. There's 10 to choose from, and you take the three you prefer. They work much like engineer turrets. They use the ammo system, so you can place multiple of the same type at once. With no traits, the maximum of deployed spirits is 5, the oldest one despawning if you summon a 6th. These spirits are available no matter your current legend.

  • Zlater.6789Zlater.6789 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2018

    My initial though when seeing this is, is it realistic?

    Just look at the weapons, the first expansion is going to be hell because they literally have to make 2 new weapon types and make a matching skin for every pre-existing set. Then you will have to make 1 more again. Underwater weapons is at least somewhat realistic, but not entirely new types. Remember that there are a lot of other weapons that you didn't even mention, like hammer or axe. Also there is not any significant reason you cant reuse a weapon that exists on a pre-existing e-spec, as long as its not used on the core spec.

    Consider this:
    Dervish - You're kinda screwed because weaver already has stances and scythes area already super common as staff skins, your best bet is Great Sword if you really wanna resurrect dervish.
    Reaver - Come on, spears are 2h, just 1 spear lol
    Forge Master - Off-hand mace fo kitten
    Necrophage - How about hammer or sword?
    Technopriest - Tbh scythes just seems like a bad fit, and why not run staff anyway? rip fashion wars if they don't add enough scythe skins.
    Bloodhound - The play style of a crossbow would bring literally nothing new to ranger. Consider off-hand sword, it would be a better fit thematically with deception skills.
    Changeling - Focus dude, there are practically already skins that look like vials for focus xD if you dont like it, consider scepter.
    Swarmhost - Consider Short-bow, it is also a short range 2 handed projectile weapon, its just held a little differently and shoots faster.
    Occultist - I like the idea but I sincerely think this doesn't fit is why I mention it. Engineer doesn't have any interaction with magic, let alone an "otherworldly pet." If you wanna stick with it give it a scepter, give it a pointing stick and put its damage elsewhere.
    Botanist - Trident or shield would probs be a better fit without having to invent an entire new weapon class.

    I just think that if you wanna seriously suggest something, make it somewhat realistic. Put yourself in the shoes of the developers having to do the work and ask yourself, if I were them could I realistically do this. Don't forget that adding a new weapon type also means 2 new legendaries and less development resources as they will also need to create more new skins for upcoming sets aswell. Not to forget achievements and creating new animations for every race and gender etc...

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Necromancer - Necrophage: The Blood Legion has resurrected their darkest banned ancient art, too terrible for even the Flame Legion to use. Necrophages feast on their enemies, harvesting their blood and flesh. Instead of channeling their powers into a shroud, they use them to rear their own fleshreaver servant, from youth to adulthood. This process creates a repugnant parent-children link between both, securing the loyalty of the demon. They wield greataxes to butcher their enemies efficiently, and chant mantras during their ritual sacrifices.

    i would pay any amount of money for this!

    "It's a testament to the folly of the humans and their gods. They say Arah was sacred, but all I see is one big dragon nest."(Rytlock Brimstone)

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zlater.6789 said:
    they literally have to make 2 new weapon types and make a matching skin for every pre-existing set.

    They don't need to do that, and in fact, pretty much no game does that, and you don't need to look far, GW1 didn't when they introduced dagger, spear, and scythe, and even GW2 stopped releasing new underwater weapon skins long ago.

    @Zlater.6789 said:
    Dervish - You're kinda screwed because weaver already has stances

    My dervish doesn't use stances, but wells.

    @Zlater.6789 said:
    Reaver - Come on, spears are 2h, just 1 spear lol

    Someone didn't play GW1, and didn't meet any Krait Nimross during his adventures.

    @Zlater.6789 said:
    I just think that if you wanna seriously suggest something, make it somewhat realistic. Put yourself in the shoes of the developers having to do the work and ask yourself, if I were them could I realistically do this. Don't forget that adding a new weapon type also means 2 new legendaries and less development resources as they will also need to create more new skins for upcoming sets aswell. Not to forget achievements and creating new animations for every race and gender etc...

    You're the one being unrealistic here, by raising expectations just to achieve some sort of arbitrary "balance" with old weapons, when we don't need any.

    Also, no new animations needed. Only the scythe needed new animations, but the ones added for revenant and daredevil staff in HoT solved that problem long ago. You already see enemy NPC dervishes using these animations, further proving my point.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Orpheal.8263 said:
    I have to say for my opinion are most of these ideas nonsense sadly and don't like them, because they are either based on the core class and theme completely unfitting, have terrible names, partwise totaly unfitting names, or have absolutely no chance at all to ever see the day of light like Paragon and Dervish - when will people stop it about these two. Paragon is nothign but just everythign what the Guardian already is, the GW1 version absolutely offers nothing at all, what the Warrior, nor the Guardian already provide in a superior way!
    Just some examples of your very weird ideas ...:

    Occultists as Engineer E Spec... Do you even know, what an Occultist is??
    Just in case you dont't, a Necromancer is an Occultist, a Ritualist is an Occultist, but absolutely not in any way, shape or form ever an Engineer.
    Occultism has to do with blood, death, spirits, souls, rituals, demons, curses and hexes, dark magic so to say and is not anything that has to do with technology and engineering...

    Thieves and Soulbinders..eh what?? since when have thieves powers to bind soukls, which is basically what Necromancers do ... if at all, or a Ritualist does/did back in GW1..

    Technopriest, ..makes as name absolutely no sense and sounds totally terrible .. Technomancer in fact makes more sense !! Thats the correct fantasy term for such a kind of class!

    Inquisitor makes for mesmer absolutely no sense, for a Guardian Spec maybe..cause an Inquisitor is no illusionist or so of any kind of form.. an Inqusitor is comparable with a Sentinel, like some kind of law enforcer who hunts down people for heresy performing blasphemism in front of others, and back in history, when the church has had more power to the point, that the teachings of the church were seen like "everybodies highest law" to serve under those holy rules, the curch used its inquisitors to make sure, that this situation stays so and punish everybody for their disbeliefs..until the church came somewhen finally back to senses, that you cant punish people for it, only because they dont beleive in god, or have an other religion ...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisitor
    The closest alternative definition and term for Inquisitor is basically the Seeker as a class/spec name, which is in essence why I was strongly for it, that Dragonhunters should have been renamed into either Inquisitors or better even Seekers, due to these terms fitting much better to the overall gameplay and themse design of this Elite Spec ...

    To come to an end, if I would have made a topic like yours, I think I would have come up rather with a better fitting list concept like this. (with rev being redesigned) and certain earlier E-Specs getting renamed/changed)

    Expansion:-----------------3 (Land of the Dragons)-----4 (Wars of Demons and Gods)---- 5 (Age of Utopia)
    Warrior:--------------------Gladiator (Staff)----------------Berserker (Greataxe)-------------Legionnaire (Greatshield)
    Guardian:------------------Patron (Warhorn)-------------Warden (Greatshield)-------------Seeker (Whip)
    Revenant (Ritualist)-----Soulbinder (Whip)------------Mystic (Scepter)--------------------Oracle (Focus)
    Engineer:-------------------Alchemist (Axe)---------------Technomancer (Staff)------------Forgemaster (Mace)
    Ranger:---------------------Beastlord (Whip)--------------Shaman (Scepter)-----------------Forager (Greataxe)
    Thief:------------------------Assassin (Chakram)----------Rogue (Longbow)------------------Saboteur (Torch)
    Elementalist:---------------Summoner (Chakram)------Bender(Whip)----------------------Spellslinger (Pistols/Longbow)
    Necromancer:-------------Witcher (Sword)--------------Torturer (Whip)--------------------Executioner (Greataxe)
    Mesmer:--------------------Minstrel (Shortbow)---------Bladedancer (Chakram)----------Dreamcatcher (Whip)

    I love your xpac names, any ideas behind them?

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I love all these spec names too, but what if they are not planning to add more weapons? So no Chakram, Whip or Greatshield/Greataxe? I would really enjoy to have more ranged weapons for elementalist like rifle/longbow, also for warrior, maybe add pistol, they already have a ton of CC weapons available... maybe axe for thief... Engineer need seriously more combinations like mace available for both hands and adding spear as aquatic weapon.

    +++In creative mood. New Engie Elite spec' , Housing , New asuran expansion , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    +++NEW: AEP Asuran Expansion Project available on WIKI.
    +++New: GEM GW2 Exploration Map: Discover unusual places around tyria: Here (OSM map)

  • Orpheal.8263Orpheal.8263 Member ✭✭✭

    Thanks, Thanks for the praises of you both :D.

    @Fenom.9457
    About your question of concepts behind the Expansion Names, sure I have had ideas behind those names.

    Land of Dragons - Besides of Cantha beign already by lore called the Land of Dragons, the basic idea of this expansion name is naturally, that we wil lreturn to Cantha, the Land of Dragons, which woudl be the very much demanded Underwater Expansion, which would add besides of a reexplorable Cantha with like 5-6 Canthan Map Areals via the 5th Season of Living World a high focus on Undewater Maps and a Story based on the Deep Sea Dragon that lurks arouund the unending ocean that lies between Cantha and Tyria, whiel the story of the expansion itself woudl be based on the surprisign discovery, that there are two more yet undiscovered elder dragons, which awaken in Cantha to make the elements, which are covered pe Elder Dragon complete, because to make the 8 Elements complete, there are 2 Elder Dragons basicalyl missing, this counts also too for 2 very important Bloodstone Magic Types, if we consider, that every Elder Dragon has 2 things for which they stand for.

    Primordus for example stands for Fire & Destruction, Zhaitan for Darkness & Death, Mordremoth for Mind & Earth (Plants), Jormag for Ice & Corruption, Kralkatorrik for Lightning and Alteration, DSD for Water & ??? (Denial most likely), with that being said there's missing an Elder Dragon which represents Wind/Aggression most likely as combination and lastly Light & Preservation.
    So the idea of Land of Dragons was to be a Expansion, whose Expansion Story is driven around specifictly these two canthan Elder Dragons which awake at the same time and work as some kind of Yin & Yang against each other, whose job of the player it is to brign those two into balance, to brign back normality and peac into the regions of Cantha that are affected by this battle for magic/power between these two dragons, which are different, than the elder dragosn of cantha, because they don#t see in the player races a danger, they try to turn them into allies eahc in an own different way, so that they are basicalyl the new "Factions", which kind of replace the Luxons and Kurzicks with the Pact beign literally a third neutral Faction that has its own goals, which both other sides don't like out of different reasons, because of them havign two different goals where one is good and one is bad for each other of the dragon factions.
    Meanwhile the main story of this faction woudl be based on the imperial city of kaineng and a war of them with Tengu Rebells - you can guess it with Tengus becoming finally a playable race which start with an own new different personal story from the Dominion of Winds, the Tengu Enclave in Kryta near Lions Arch with Sanctum Cay being their hometown.
    Land of Dragons woudl brign is bach the Cantha of our dreams with an enticing story which shows us elder dragons in a completely different way, with elder dragons more wise and intelligent, than all the others before, which know about the situation in which tyria is in, but are this time in conflict of each other in a dragon war for their own territory and sadly Cantha has become the battlefield in middst of it - the Land of Dragons, with Cantha now calling for help, because the situation has grown quickly out of control for them and they havign heard,. that there is a force outside of Cantha, which is to be known being able to kill Elder Dragons, so Cantha calls for help in hope that we might bring Cantha back to peace, while LW season 5 as prequel to that expansion would handle about the kind of temporal defeat/takeout of DSD to make the route to Cantha free and safe.

    Behind Wars of Demons and Gods is the idea, that the defeat of Balthazar and all the struggles agaisnt the elder dragons has massively weakened the seal of Abaddon, so that he was able to send out in a short moment of time in which the seal was shortly collapsed for a tiny moment of time - enough to send out a glipse of his power, which manifested itself into 7 Harbingers, seven exceptional powerful demonic Champions of Abaddon which were send out by him on the mission to break his seal completely, so that he could return and claim back his place as God.
    These harbingers are such an immense danger, that the Gods immediately feel their presence. Abaddon managed to become somehow while beign sealed more powerful, because the seal had a leak, which allowed Magic to flow in. So whenever a elder dragon got defeated, whenever a bloodstone was destroyed, whenrever one god got defeated, Abaddon gained more might, without the others recognized it, while at the same tiem the divine seal got weaker - especially after Balthazars defeat, because he was a very important part - the most powerful one as God of War, which was part of that seal keeping that seal intact.
    Abaddon ,as the Originator of Magic, who gave the world of Tyria the gift of Magic is in rage about it, how that gift has been misused and broght by us into complete disbalance and he stilly very angry about it, that the other gods sealed him away and wants revenge, following his masterplan of defeating them all and the remaining Elder Dragons, to claim completely back all Magic of Tyria and become the one and only being, which reings over all Magic and for this he needs Aurene has his vessel/sacrifice to break the seal, and reincranate through her body as a new divine Elder dragon which unifies all magic. the point is, our heroes find a way to stop him and with the help of Aurene make his plan basically come true, but just without abaddon existing anymore.
    The acts of this expansion will ring in the Age of Utopia.

    The direct sequel expansion to the second one - Age of Utopia would be based on the idea, that in the war of demons and gods, the remaining gods and Abaddon with his band of his 7 Harbingers, would have defeated each other at the end of that war at that point, where we - the players can help through our asuran masterplan by Taimi to turn Abaddons masterplan against himself, so that he can be stopped and defeated, for the costs that the remaining gods have to sacrifice themself in that outstanding intense battles between them and the harbingers, while we have to go for Abaddon to save Aurene.
    At the end of the day, when everythign is over and the Age of Utopia has been ringed in and we realize, that the racres of tyria live in now a world with no gods and no demons anymore and a world where Magic is standing at the brim of becoming completely out of control, with no Elder Dragons beign there anymore as well, which could balance it out by eating the massive overdose of magic up, with Aurene being the last dragon of Tyria, it is our last mission to discover the last bists of Tyria north of it, returnign to the Eye of North and the northern shiver peaks, the charr homelands, islane of janthir ect. in search for some ancient old relics, where are said by legends to have the power in combination with the Scepter of Orr to bring magic into harmony with one being, sealing huge amounts of magic in a safe way into the body of somebody who's able to contain it - Aurene.
    But Joko has somethign agaisnt this, our eternal living villain, because he knows, if we succeed with our plan of turning Tyria back into a beloved peaceful utopia in which all magic is back in control and harmony within one powerful being that is able to contain all of it, without becoming mad and corrupted, then his eternal life wound find an eternal end and he woudl fall to ashes, because his eternal life is based on magic being not under control, with him beign able to take and use it as he wants to prolong this way his lifetime.
    Living World Season 4 won't lead us to defeat Joko, therefore hes too important and we unable at that time to make eternally an end to him finally, because of too much magic being still uncontrolled in flow in Tyria and there being no clear ruler over all magic, which would be basically Aurene, once we would have defeated all Elder Dragons, with Fire, Ice, Wind and Light being later defeated by Abaddon and his harbingers, without us havign a chance to stop that in the 4th expansion)
    First through our actionsin Age of Utopia we would become able to make Aurene become powerful and gornw up enough to withstand the immense ancient ritual, a very old mission that has Livia been given on 250 years ago by a seer which was at a time when Glint was still alive a servant of her, who was given the task to do the task, if he finds not someone better fittign for that mission, which was luckily Livia, with the seer giving her the vision of glints prophecy of the future of her childs, when it was mortally wounded by one of zhaitans champions, which goit then defeated by Livia through her scepter, which was the the point, where she realized, that she must find a way to live long enough over all the centuries of time, so that she could do one day that important task of prforming this ritual with the Scepter of Orr, which would make Aurene able to contain all the magic of the world as its ruler of magic, so that the Auge of Utopia would ring in to Tyria from then on.

    I know, this is a very farstretched concept of mine, but it is one, where I think it would make sense for the story of GW2, if it would find this way to its end based on Aurene becoming in the end the story's most important character, which closes the cicle of destiny, in where everything started with dragons, and where everything has to end with a dragon naturally.


    Cassandra Lancaster - Achievement Hunter - 28,9k AP currently - Server: Drakkar Lake/EU - Mastery Rank of 254
    I'm the proud Origin of the Elite Specializations Concept (Sub Classes) through the last made CDI Project.


  • Orpheal.8263Orpheal.8263 Member ✭✭✭

    @hugo.4705

    About my concepts here beign based on new weapons being implemented.
    The concepts would work basicalyl also, if they are done with already existing weapons.

    Greataxe could become also just a Spear Reskin with Spears becoming Polearm Weapons for land Combat, cause it wasn anormal, that greataxes also had pikes on their tops of the axe blades, because thats in the end what a halberd is, a polearm weapon with a pike and an axeblade.

    Chakrams could be also turned into just Focus Reskins with the focus beign just turned for the thief intio a Throwing Weapon, surte it woudl look then a bit weird with other Focus skins, but a thief just trowing at you everythign they get into their hands is also a way of improvised self defense lol and its about time that Offhand weapons should be turned also into becoming useable in main hands also too. it plays absolutely no role, if i hold a shield in left or right hand, it plays no role, if i hold a torch in left or right hand, same coutns for warhorns and focus items ...

    Greatshields coudl be just shields in the end, which are now beign just in MH and which have whil being used in MH a recognizeable bigger size, than shields used in offhand.

    Whip replacement would become complicated, I have to admit.
    Howev,er this game is 6 years old soon in 2 months and a week around. its about time, that anet shows finalyl, that they can add also something great, which addes more build diversity and character diversity - which is best done by addign new weapon types.

    Chakrams, Whips, Greatshields and Greataxes are basicalyl the most easiest new weapontype together with Crossbows, ANet could eventually possible add somewhen.
    They also don't have to retroactively add for new weapon types all black lion skins, that woudl be idiotic and way too much effort, unless they want to do it, and then most likely via Gemstore, to have this way for some time an easy new income of money which appeals the completionists, which want to have a complete weapon set for a skin for absoletely all weapons, even for new added weapon types, even of those skins are then not retroactively part of the skin collection achievements and only earned through buyign them from the gemstore eventually.

    But to keep the combat of GW2 fresh, interestign and fun, its about time, that anet adds some new weapon types and the best and most senseful way to do that is by addign them in combination of new Elite Specializations that introduce these new weapon types as part of their gameplay designs.
    It is also great content to advertise expansions with, cause people will defineterly buy expansions, if there are new elite specs, among it, which add new weapon types.
    its the exact same reasoning, why Anet added the Rev via HoT and not just via some kind of free Feature Pack, because a new class added via expac raises the sales of the expansion. same will do definetely new added weapon types.


    Cassandra Lancaster - Achievement Hunter - 28,9k AP currently - Server: Drakkar Lake/EU - Mastery Rank of 254
    I'm the proud Origin of the Elite Specializations Concept (Sub Classes) through the last made CDI Project.


  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    All the redesign threads now have their own take on these elite specialization ideas, feel free to check them out:

    Elementalist - Mesmer - Necromancer - Engineer - Ranger - Thief - Guardian - Revenant - Warrior

    They get into the mechanics in much more detail, and even if they were expanded in the context of a redesign, most of its ideas can be applied without no redesign required.

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