Scourge balance and shade spamming — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Scourge balance and shade spamming

caudata.1298caudata.1298 Member

Scourge has always seemed overpowered, but I never understood exactly what the mechanics were like. I finally started playing a scourge and have a better understanding of the mechanics. I would like to make one suggestion that would limit shade spamming on self. As long as you have life force you can use the shade abilities and they will automatically cast on the scourge. My suggestion is that the shade abilities do not become available until after the shade is cast using ground targeting.

<1

Comments

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    That would put it back into basically an old shroud mode where you couldn't use the shroud skills unless you were in it. I somewhat agree, they made scourge shroud basically an open set of skills instead of the the old death shroud or reaper shroud and thus made it too open for spamming, mind you they give up a second life bar although they got shields for that as well.

    I know there are many necros who wanted to break free of relying so heavily on shroud modes, but I think they took it a bit too far in design. They've adjusted many things since then to tone them down, so I don't have much problems as they are now, except for gear choices which can still make them too tanky in some cases.

    "Is there pvp stuff for this?" "Absolutely, eh we actually have a new armor set coming soon."
    "From the back of the room!, the one pvp fan! we got him! WoAH!"
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    corrupt x wells x epi. <3

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Easy make shade cost life foce to have out. If scorges do not want to give up any of the strong effects and numbers of targets you can hit then they must pay for it one way or another.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Dont hate on the scourge u.u

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Adamsdjr.1350Adamsdjr.1350 Member ✭✭

    There's a difference between overpowered and unfun. After all the nerfs to scourge, i'd say it's fine, but there's nothing fun about having to navigate 47,882 red circles. There's also the added problem of completely pushing Reaper out of viability. Elite specs should be specs that serve a niche, but scourge pretty much does what reaper does except better and at range, which is probably more due to reaper needing buffs than scourge needing nerfs.

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    One of the ironic things with Scourge is that it is a heavily needed spec because it adds boon corruption, group support with barriers, and high ranged aoe damage. It is desirable in groups because it is effective, and the more it was nerfed the more Scourges were needed to keep up the pressure that it brings to enemies and value it brings to groups. The spec is too valuable to ignore in WvW, so just nerfing short of a complete overhaul of its mechanics will just lead to more Scourges in WvW because of what it has to offer.

    Somewhere chasing bags....

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @X T D.6458 said:
    One of the ironic things with Scourge is that it is a heavily needed spec because it adds boon corruption, group support with barriers, and high ranged aoe damage. It is desirable in groups because it is effective, and the more it was nerfed the more Scourges were needed to keep up the pressure that it brings to enemies and value it brings to groups. The spec is too valuable to ignore in WvW, so just nerfing short of a complete overhaul of its mechanics will just lead to more Scourges in WvW because of what it has to offer.

    They are doing a significant overhaul to some of the deadeye mechanics. Including changing the way malice is created.

    I guess maybe there COULD be an overhaul of scourge incoming.

    not-so-secretly doubts it

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @X T D.6458 said:
    One of the ironic things with Scourge is that it is a heavily needed spec because it adds boon corruption, group support with barriers, and high ranged aoe damage. It is desirable in groups because it is effective, and the more it was nerfed the more Scourges were needed to keep up the pressure that it brings to enemies and value it brings to groups. The spec is too valuable to ignore in WvW, so just nerfing short of a complete overhaul of its mechanics will just lead to more Scourges in WvW because of what it has to offer.

    They are doing a significant overhaul to some of the deadeye mechanics. Including changing the way malice is created.

    I guess maybe there COULD be an overhaul of scourge incoming.

    not-so-secretly doubts it

    Its possible, but I honestly doubt they would overhaul Scourge mechanics because it along with Spellbreaker were specifically designed to fill a role.

    Somewhere chasing bags....

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 4, 2018

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    Dont hate on the scourge u.u

    To many "bad" groups being carried from scourge & fb stacking,
    WvW should require more team work and personal player skill rather than stack a stuipidly designed class.

    Developers qualiity in this game on class development and iteration is 1/10, so i would rather expect more broken changes than anything else, just look what hapened to mesmer "rework" before the signet got changed...
    IT is like dev's alone dont knwo the actions of what they are doing.

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭

    @dzeRnumbrd.6129 said:
    Since day 0 of WvW, light armour classes have always been high damage professions for WvW. It's intentional.

    Mesmer - 100% health to downed state in 2 seconds.

    Ele - 10k meteor showers.

    Necro - ruining your protective boons.

    It's intentional that light armour classes gets top damage.

    Revenant is the outlier, they get huge ranged damage on heavy armour.

    Scourge was admittedly very OP at launch, after all the nerfs - it is fine now.

    It's around the same level as condi shout reapers and zerker well bombing necros used to be.

    Actually they're almost less scary than pre-nerf condi shout reapers with epidemic.

    protip: You should try not standing in the hugely obvious solid red flashing circles and learn to play.

    pro tip lets just make corrupt not turn resistance into immoblize that would help alot already.
    infact resistance should make u immune to corrupt boon if u ask me but i know people will start screaming here that its OP.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 4, 2018

    @reddie.5861 said:

    @dzeRnumbrd.6129 said:
    Since day 0 of WvW, light armour classes have always been high damage professions for WvW. It's intentional.

    Mesmer - 100% health to downed state in 2 seconds.

    Ele - 10k meteor showers.

    Necro - ruining your protective boons.

    It's intentional that light armour classes gets top damage.

    Revenant is the outlier, they get huge ranged damage on heavy armour.

    Scourge was admittedly very OP at launch, after all the nerfs - it is fine now.

    It's around the same level as condi shout reapers and zerker well bombing necros used to be.

    Actually they're almost less scary than pre-nerf condi shout reapers with epidemic.

    protip: You should try not standing in the hugely obvious solid red flashing circles and learn to play.

    pro tip lets just make corrupt not turn resistance into immoblize that would help alot already.
    infact resistance should make u immune to corrupt boon if u ask me but i know people will start screaming here that its OP.

    Resistance need's to changed from a buff to something else >_>

    Problem with gw2 is that everythign is boon wcth gets borked up by ANet dev's in a way or another wich why combat becomes a mess of spam and powercreep try harders, and probably why the bad design on gw2 classes where every expantions classes ended with everything or almost everything.
    Tranform resistance to stance, only classes that have stances get acces to resistance, add 1 or 2 skills to end stances like gw1, since every class will have every utility type soon or later, every class will have access to resistance but needs to choose that.

  • Dechande.5690Dechande.5690 Member ✭✭
    edited May 4, 2018

    Scourge alone is not the problem currently in WvW, the problem is the huge bands of scourge that are roaming around and dont actually need to do anything to kill people. I realise any zerg ability thats cast will usually slay someone, but what makes it even harder is the fact that this aoe ability follows the caster around, and this (to my knowledge) is the only aoe ability that does this in the game. This makes this aoe ability, compared to every other static ability, so much better and tips the balance for every zerg using it. Due to this wvw has evolved into roaming bands of zergs containing over half of its number as scourges, proving that the scourge is not balanced correctly at all for wvw.

    Personally i would like to see it as a stationary pulse ability that doesnt move with the caster, making it match every other ability like it in the game. Until then the numbers of scourge players will be higher than any other class in wvw because its easy mode in a group.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think the other one with a moving aoe is torch 5 on berserker warrior but I see practically 0 of these in wvw now.

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    I think the other one with a moving aoe is torch 5 on berserker warrior but I see practically 0 of these in wvw now.

    The nerf to primal burst skills before PoF basically killed berserker. It had potential and was able to put out some good damage, oh well.

    Somewhere chasing bags....

  • Chorazin.4107Chorazin.4107 Member ✭✭✭

    They could just get rid of a lot of the corrupts for boon strip and some abilities gives out an effect that blocks boon application for 3-5 seconds. This would not have any effect on boons still on you, or abilities that convert condis into boons, you would still get the condi clear just no boons.

    [lion] - [tRex] - [nâh/UwU/yep]

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2018

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    I think the other one with a moving aoe is torch 5 on berserker warrior but I see practically 0 of these in wvw now.

    Tempest has moving AoEs too, the overloads. But unlike scourge's moving AoEs overloads actually have drawbacks, like being interruptible, preventing you from casting weapon skills during their duration, and putting your attunement on a 20 second cooldown when they are done casting. Some would say tht overloads even have too many draw backs, since their casting time is so long. Scourge shades not only lack any sort of drawback, but you can also place a stationary big shade in the enemy zerg in addition to the effect around your character.

  • Rezzet.3614Rezzet.3614 Member ✭✭✭

    nothing but shade+ spellbreaker bubble trains in wvw , its disgusting and unfun

  • Oozo.7856Oozo.7856 Member ✭✭✭

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    I think the other one with a moving aoe is torch 5 on berserker warrior but I see practically 0 of these in wvw now.

    Weaver has moving condition AoE. ;)

  • Blackarps.1974Blackarps.1974 Member ✭✭✭

    Not much else you can do to scourges until they become useless because of long cooldowns and no corrupts. Then you'll just have more spellbreakers yolo bubbling on you to get rid of all the boons the firebrands and mesmers pump out. Otherwise we are just back to post-HoT boonshare meta which I think we can all agree was garbage.

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    @Oozo.7856 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    I think the other one with a moving aoe is torch 5 on berserker warrior but I see practically 0 of these in wvw now.

    Weaver has moving condition AoE. ;)

    Primordial stance is the most similar ability to shades for sure. It's instant just like them and inflicts conditions around you. Still way weaker though, because it eats up a utility slot, has less radius due to sand savant, a larger coodown, has no other similar abilities to be stacked with, has no extra shade to place in the zerg. You probably know all of this already but I just felt the need to point it out.

    The scourge mechanic is the pure definition of power creep. The spec needs a redesign in my opinion. And yes, it should get something to use against long range specs too, I know about their issues there.

  • Hoodie.1045Hoodie.1045 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @caudata.1298 said:
    Scourge has always seemed overpowered, but I never understood exactly what the mechanics were like. I finally started playing a scourge and have a better understanding of the mechanics. I would like to make one suggestion that would limit shade spamming on self. As long as you have life force you can use the shade abilities and they will automatically cast on the scourge. My suggestion is that the shade abilities do not become available until after the shade is cast using ground targeting.

    That and give the shade skills cast time. It's annoying how you're juggling the Scourge around the place, but as soon as you get to melee range, you better expect that giant red circle to apply conditions on you. That's what makes the Scourge so annoying and easy to play.

    Karras

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @X T D.6458 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @X T D.6458 said:
    One of the ironic things with Scourge is that it is a heavily needed spec because it adds boon corruption, group support with barriers, and high ranged aoe damage. It is desirable in groups because it is effective, and the more it was nerfed the more Scourges were needed to keep up the pressure that it brings to enemies and value it brings to groups. The spec is too valuable to ignore in WvW, so just nerfing short of a complete overhaul of its mechanics will just lead to more Scourges in WvW because of what it has to offer.

    They are doing a significant overhaul to some of the deadeye mechanics. Including changing the way malice is created.

    I guess maybe there COULD be an overhaul of scourge incoming.

    not-so-secretly doubts it

    Its possible, but I honestly doubt they would overhaul Scourge mechanics because it along with Spellbreaker were specifically designed to fill a role.

    The problem is that there's no reasonable way to escape playing with boons unless ANet overhauls the entire game.

    Resistance and permanent protection and stability/concentration were ANet's answers to damage and CC powercreep.

    If you try to play boonless builds you still get rolled because capping boons is literally the same as wearing an entire set of extra gear as far as stats are concerned. You wouldn't tell someone to counter something by removing their accessories.

    Scourge wouldn't be as big of a problem if it just wasn't so damned impossible to shut down. It has self-stab, damage mitigation/build hate, a portal, AoE heals/barriers, huge PbAoE punishment and manages effective damage all in one bundle. Basically, it's just what happens when core necro gets all its weaknesses covered and then also gets group support that scales better the more you have.

    The only answer to scourge is a redesign. The entire concept is just conceptually going to be either too oppressive or too weak with no in between unless ANet wants to redesign the entire rest of the game, first, including the removal of multiple gear combos.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.
    Quit/Inactive. No, you can't have my stuff.

  • DeadlySynz.3471DeadlySynz.3471 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2018

    @Solanopearl.5692 said:
    Scourge is all everyone runs now and Scourge has basically ruined wvw .. groups of 50 running 23 scourges cannot be fought. Only avoided ..

    Not true, a couple of rangers can send that 23/50 scourge group running. Happens many times. It gets to the point you start to feel bad about killing helpless Scourge at range when they have no defense against it.

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:

    @X T D.6458 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @X T D.6458 said:
    One of the ironic things with Scourge is that it is a heavily needed spec because it adds boon corruption, group support with barriers, and high ranged aoe damage. It is desirable in groups because it is effective, and the more it was nerfed the more Scourges were needed to keep up the pressure that it brings to enemies and value it brings to groups. The spec is too valuable to ignore in WvW, so just nerfing short of a complete overhaul of its mechanics will just lead to more Scourges in WvW because of what it has to offer.

    They are doing a significant overhaul to some of the deadeye mechanics. Including changing the way malice is created.

    I guess maybe there COULD be an overhaul of scourge incoming.

    not-so-secretly doubts it

    Its possible, but I honestly doubt they would overhaul Scourge mechanics because it along with Spellbreaker were specifically designed to fill a role.

    The problem is that there's no reasonable way to escape playing with boons unless ANet overhauls the entire game.

    Resistance and permanent protection and stability/concentration were ANet's answers to damage and CC powercreep.

    If you try to play boonless builds you still get rolled because capping boons is literally the same as wearing an entire set of extra gear as far as stats are concerned. You wouldn't tell someone to counter something by removing their accessories.

    Scourge wouldn't be as big of a problem if it just wasn't so damned impossible to shut down. It has self-stab, damage mitigation/build hate, a portal, AoE heals/barriers, huge PbAoE punishment and manages effective damage all in one bundle. Basically, it's just what happens when core necro gets all its weaknesses covered and then also gets group support that scales better the more you have.

    The only answer to scourge is a redesign. The entire concept is just conceptually going to be either too oppressive or too weak with no in between unless ANet wants to redesign the entire rest of the game, first, including the removal of multiple gear combos.

    Yes boons are a big part of the game, and that's why there needs to be counters. Scourge by itself is not hard to counter, it is severely limited by reliance on life force. What makes Scourge more powerful is when there is a high number because this allows groups to control an area as well as provide extra group support.

    Somewhere chasing bags....

  • Felipe.1807Felipe.1807 Member ✭✭✭

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    @Solanopearl.5692 said:
    Scourge is all everyone runs now and Scourge has basically ruined wvw .. groups of 50 running 23 scourges cannot be fought. Only avoided ..

    Not true, a couple of rangers can send that 23/50 scourge group running. Happens many times. It gets to the point you start to feel bad about killing helpless Scourge at range when they have no defense against it.

    lol what? Yeah, i am sure that group is really worried about a couple o rangers...more likely they are just laughing while farming you guys 24/7...lost the count of the number of times I saw Rangers and Thiefs killing thenselfs trying to gank someone when I casted 3# skill on F3 firebrand tome...the projectile hate on the game is way to high for ranger to actually make any diference...if you wanna play ranged, go for Ele, Necro or Rev.

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @X T D.6458 said:

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:

    @X T D.6458 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @X T D.6458 said:
    One of the ironic things with Scourge is that it is a heavily needed spec because it adds boon corruption, group support with barriers, and high ranged aoe damage. It is desirable in groups because it is effective, and the more it was nerfed the more Scourges were needed to keep up the pressure that it brings to enemies and value it brings to groups. The spec is too valuable to ignore in WvW, so just nerfing short of a complete overhaul of its mechanics will just lead to more Scourges in WvW because of what it has to offer.

    They are doing a significant overhaul to some of the deadeye mechanics. Including changing the way malice is created.

    I guess maybe there COULD be an overhaul of scourge incoming.

    not-so-secretly doubts it

    Its possible, but I honestly doubt they would overhaul Scourge mechanics because it along with Spellbreaker were specifically designed to fill a role.

    The problem is that there's no reasonable way to escape playing with boons unless ANet overhauls the entire game.

    Resistance and permanent protection and stability/concentration were ANet's answers to damage and CC powercreep.

    If you try to play boonless builds you still get rolled because capping boons is literally the same as wearing an entire set of extra gear as far as stats are concerned. You wouldn't tell someone to counter something by removing their accessories.

    Scourge wouldn't be as big of a problem if it just wasn't so damned impossible to shut down. It has self-stab, damage mitigation/build hate, a portal, AoE heals/barriers, huge PbAoE punishment and manages effective damage all in one bundle. Basically, it's just what happens when core necro gets all its weaknesses covered and then also gets group support that scales better the more you have.

    The only answer to scourge is a redesign. The entire concept is just conceptually going to be either too oppressive or too weak with no in between unless ANet wants to redesign the entire rest of the game, first, including the removal of multiple gear combos.

    Yes boons are a big part of the game, and that's why there needs to be counters. Scourge by itself is not hard to counter, it is severely limited by reliance on life force. What makes Scourge more powerful is when there is a high number because this allows groups to control an area as well as provide extra group support.

    I'm not going to reveal anything because I reported this and I'm praying it's a bug, but right now there's a build out there which every 15s can give all allied necros (any number) within range 80% LF and it doesn't even need to be in combat.

    And again, LF doesn't have a target cap and works on both downed enemies and allies, too, making it really hard to balance in WvW. Particularly because unlike core/reaper shroud, scourge can just keep gaining it when using their class mechanic skills and mitigation. So long as people are dying, the scourge is regenerating its LF. That's a fundamental problem with its design.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.
    Quit/Inactive. No, you can't have my stuff.

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:

    @X T D.6458 said:

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:

    @X T D.6458 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @X T D.6458 said:
    One of the ironic things with Scourge is that it is a heavily needed spec because it adds boon corruption, group support with barriers, and high ranged aoe damage. It is desirable in groups because it is effective, and the more it was nerfed the more Scourges were needed to keep up the pressure that it brings to enemies and value it brings to groups. The spec is too valuable to ignore in WvW, so just nerfing short of a complete overhaul of its mechanics will just lead to more Scourges in WvW because of what it has to offer.

    They are doing a significant overhaul to some of the deadeye mechanics. Including changing the way malice is created.

    I guess maybe there COULD be an overhaul of scourge incoming.

    not-so-secretly doubts it

    Its possible, but I honestly doubt they would overhaul Scourge mechanics because it along with Spellbreaker were specifically designed to fill a role.

    The problem is that there's no reasonable way to escape playing with boons unless ANet overhauls the entire game.

    Resistance and permanent protection and stability/concentration were ANet's answers to damage and CC powercreep.

    If you try to play boonless builds you still get rolled because capping boons is literally the same as wearing an entire set of extra gear as far as stats are concerned. You wouldn't tell someone to counter something by removing their accessories.

    Scourge wouldn't be as big of a problem if it just wasn't so damned impossible to shut down. It has self-stab, damage mitigation/build hate, a portal, AoE heals/barriers, huge PbAoE punishment and manages effective damage all in one bundle. Basically, it's just what happens when core necro gets all its weaknesses covered and then also gets group support that scales better the more you have.

    The only answer to scourge is a redesign. The entire concept is just conceptually going to be either too oppressive or too weak with no in between unless ANet wants to redesign the entire rest of the game, first, including the removal of multiple gear combos.

    Yes boons are a big part of the game, and that's why there needs to be counters. Scourge by itself is not hard to counter, it is severely limited by reliance on life force. What makes Scourge more powerful is when there is a high number because this allows groups to control an area as well as provide extra group support.

    I'm not going to reveal anything because I reported this and I'm praying it's a bug, but right now there's a build out there which every 15s can give all allied necros (any number) within range 80% LF and it doesn't even need to be in combat.

    And again, LF doesn't have a target cap and works on both downed enemies and allies, too, making it really hard to balance in WvW. Particularly because unlike core/reaper shroud, scourge can just keep gaining it when using their class mechanic skills and mitigation. So long as people are dying, the scourge is regenerating its LF. That's a fundamental problem with its design.

    Wont comment on your first point because I dont think I have ever personally encountered it.

    Shade skills, like regular shroud is used for offense and defense. Life force is fueled by nearby deaths which means its most useful when zerging and at a severe disadvantage when solo or in small groups unless you have proper support from a party. Revenants have energy, thieves have initiative, that regenerate on their own. Life force does not regenerate by itself, it is conditional because it is a secondary set of skills, similar to druid.

    Somewhere chasing bags....

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yes but in the case of nearby deaths with necro and in particular, reaper, the LF gains are negated entirely when in shroud. For core necro, this is fine because it' entirely a defensive mechanic, and for reaper, this is entirely fine because it's its offense. This isn't the case for scourge which gets tons of bonus damage, utility, and sustain while never actually cutting off its resource unlike core and reaper.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.
    Quit/Inactive. No, you can't have my stuff.

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    Yes but in the case of nearby deaths with necro and in particular, reaper, the LF gains are negated entirely when in shroud. For core necro, this is fine because it' entirely a defensive mechanic, and for reaper, this is entirely fine because it's its offense. This isn't the case for scourge which gets tons of bonus damage, utility, and sustain while never actually cutting off its resource unlike core and reaper.

    You can still get lifeforce while in shroud through certain skills. Scourge sacrifices the second lifebar that shroud offers, and gets access to barrier in return.

    Somewhere chasing bags....

  • Drarnor Kunoram.5180Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    I'm not going to reveal anything because I reported this and I'm praying it's a bug, but right now there's a build out there which every 15s can give all allied necros (any number) within range 80% LF and it doesn't even need to be in combat.

    What you are stating is a complete impossibility. At the fastest, you have a 20 second cooldown on giving all allied Necros 10% life force, and only when out of combat (summon Shadow Fiend, swap skills). By using more minion skills, it can be sped up, but Shadow Fiend is the lowest cooldown that actually gives life force on death.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2018

    @Felipe.1807 said:

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    @Solanopearl.5692 said:
    Scourge is all everyone runs now and Scourge has basically ruined wvw .. groups of 50 running 23 scourges cannot be fought. Only avoided ..

    Not true, a couple of rangers can send that 23/50 scourge group running. Happens many times. It gets to the point you start to feel bad about killing helpless Scourge at range when they have no defense against it.

    lol what? Yeah, i am sure that group is really worried about a couple o rangers...more likely they are just laughing while farming you guys 24/7...lost the count of the number of times I saw Rangers and Thiefs killing thenselfs trying to gank someone when I casted 3# skill on F3 firebrand tome...the projectile hate on the game is way to high for ranger to actually make any diference...if you wanna play ranged, go for Ele, Necro or Rev.

    This. You'd need 2-3 rangers spec'd in well timed unblockable attacks to be able to outchew the passive healing scourges get from their firebrand buddies.
    Obviously roaming is a different story, but we're not talking about that here.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger main before it was viable.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @Felipe.1807 said:

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    @Solanopearl.5692 said:
    Scourge is all everyone runs now and Scourge has basically ruined wvw .. groups of 50 running 23 scourges cannot be fought. Only avoided ..

    Not true, a couple of rangers can send that 23/50 scourge group running. Happens many times. It gets to the point you start to feel bad about killing helpless Scourge at range when they have no defense against it.

    lol what? Yeah, i am sure that group is really worried about a couple o rangers...more likely they are just laughing while farming you guys 24/7...lost the count of the number of times I saw Rangers and Thiefs killing thenselfs trying to gank someone when I casted 3# skill on F3 firebrand tome...the projectile hate on the game is way to high for ranger to actually make any diference...if you wanna play ranged, go for Ele, Necro or Rev.

    This. You'd need 2-3 rangers spec'd in well timed unblockable attacks to be able to outchew the passive healing scourges get from their firebrand buddies.
    Obviously roaming is a different story, but we're not talking about that here.

    ~ Kovu

    Idk other night we had like 4-5 soulbeasts and kept killing the commander (then the zerg) whenever they tried to push.

    Obv worse than scourge but not totally useless.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dralor.3701 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @Felipe.1807 said:

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    @Solanopearl.5692 said:
    Scourge is all everyone runs now and Scourge has basically ruined wvw .. groups of 50 running 23 scourges cannot be fought. Only avoided ..

    Not true, a couple of rangers can send that 23/50 scourge group running. Happens many times. It gets to the point you start to feel bad about killing helpless Scourge at range when they have no defense against it.

    lol what? Yeah, i am sure that group is really worried about a couple o rangers...more likely they are just laughing while farming you guys 24/7...lost the count of the number of times I saw Rangers and Thiefs killing thenselfs trying to gank someone when I casted 3# skill on F3 firebrand tome...the projectile hate on the game is way to high for ranger to actually make any diference...if you wanna play ranged, go for Ele, Necro or Rev.

    This. You'd need 2-3 rangers spec'd in well timed unblockable attacks to be able to outchew the passive healing scourges get from their firebrand buddies.
    Obviously roaming is a different story, but we're not talking about that here.

    ~ Kovu

    Idk other night we had like 4-5 soulbeasts and kept killing the commander (then the zerg) whenever they tried to push.

    Obv worse than scourge but not totally useless.

    Okay 4-5 soulbeasts could probably blow their unblockables to pick off one guy. Maybe. If the other firebrands aren't paying attention and the driver's dodge key is stuck.
    Good for them.

    I'll admit it has been a pipedream of mine to get a full party of rangers together with the specific purpose of pissing off the enemy tag. Ain't nobody play ranger anymore, tho, and the last time I hopped on my not-scourge @Chaba.5410 scolded me.

    Speaking of scourges and classes you need a whole bunch of to be noticed, large groups of scourges are what the issue is. Even if you took out all of the firebrands, only a couple of scourges would still have a heck of a time trying to down anything with even remote investments into condition removal. They're not exactly known for their burst potential. The issue is, of the nine professions, they're the most potent when there are 20 of them.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger main before it was viable.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • The problem with scourge is the amount of moving red circles they can constantly put down while moving. When the enemy zerg has a large number there's a huge advantage in zone control since it's nearly impossible to avoid. I don't really know what the solution is other than having more firebrands and scourges than the enemy zerg. It's really a shame how awful and basic the meta has become, and it really requires groups have a certain amount of classes playing the right spec to compete. I would like to see further buffs to older skills in WvW, like shouts and such to bring them up to par with some of the other classes, but right now the game seems to revolve around Scourge, Firebrand and Spellbreakers.

  • Chorazin.4107Chorazin.4107 Member ✭✭✭

    So if the scourge is having a seizure and forgets to barrier/dodge and the FB's are watching netflix on their second monitor. Or maybe the FB is having a stroke and u get 1 scourge down in the group, then what? Your 3 or 4 soulbeasts just blew all their unblockable CD's and he will be auto rezzed in like 2 seconds, because hes laying in the middle of the blob, congrats.

    Then when the Scourge/FB blob push into melee you have 3-4 useless soulbeasts who can either run or die. Because standing in the scourge push of death you die in all of about a second when 6-7 scourges push over u, feel free to pop your signet of stone on the way out.

    [lion] - [tRex] - [nâh/UwU/yep]

  • Felipe.1807Felipe.1807 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dralor.3701 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @Felipe.1807 said:

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    @Solanopearl.5692 said:
    Scourge is all everyone runs now and Scourge has basically ruined wvw .. groups of 50 running 23 scourges cannot be fought. Only avoided ..

    Not true, a couple of rangers can send that 23/50 scourge group running. Happens many times. It gets to the point you start to feel bad about killing helpless Scourge at range when they have no defense against it.

    lol what? Yeah, i am sure that group is really worried about a couple o rangers...more likely they are just laughing while farming you guys 24/7...lost the count of the number of times I saw Rangers and Thiefs killing thenselfs trying to gank someone when I casted 3# skill on F3 firebrand tome...the projectile hate on the game is way to high for ranger to actually make any diference...if you wanna play ranged, go for Ele, Necro or Rev.

    This. You'd need 2-3 rangers spec'd in well timed unblockable attacks to be able to outchew the passive healing scourges get from their firebrand buddies.
    Obviously roaming is a different story, but we're not talking about that here.

    ~ Kovu

    Idk other night we had like 4-5 soulbeasts and kept killing the commander (then the zerg) whenever they tried to push.

    Obv worse than scourge but not totally useless.

    ...okay, your 5 rangers where able to snipe down the enemy commander and wipe the rest of the zerg...dont know what this proves other then the complete incompentence of the other server...saw Thiefs using fireworks and being able to get kills on WvW, that mean that fireworks are viable for thief or is just that are people with really low skill on the game?
    I honestly would put Soulbeast on the useless category when talking about large scale fights...theres literally nothing that they can offer that other specs dont do it far better.

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    To all the above jumping on the post about rangers, I don’t think they are “good” just not useless.

    By this forum’s logic anything not sb, scourge, or firebrand is useless (probably not too far from the truth) but chill out. :expressionless:

  • Korgov.7645Korgov.7645 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Resistance need's to changed from a buff to something else >_>

    Resistance was a big mistake. Nigh permanent 100% immunity to conditions is unhealthy for a competitive game mode. It should receive the same treatment as Stability.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    treat amo like mesmer. max of 2. =) even on guards and other classes.

    jist adjust them to be stronger and faster.cd =p

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dralor.3701 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @Felipe.1807 said:

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    @Solanopearl.5692 said:
    Scourge is all everyone runs now and Scourge has basically ruined wvw .. groups of 50 running 23 scourges cannot be fought. Only avoided ..

    Not true, a couple of rangers can send that 23/50 scourge group running. Happens many times. It gets to the point you start to feel bad about killing helpless Scourge at range when they have no defense against it.

    lol what? Yeah, i am sure that group is really worried about a couple o rangers...more likely they are just laughing while farming you guys 24/7...lost the count of the number of times I saw Rangers and Thiefs killing thenselfs trying to gank someone when I casted 3# skill on F3 firebrand tome...the projectile hate on the game is way to high for ranger to actually make any diference...if you wanna play ranged, go for Ele, Necro or Rev.

    This. You'd need 2-3 rangers spec'd in well timed unblockable attacks to be able to outchew the passive healing scourges get from their firebrand buddies.
    Obviously roaming is a different story, but we're not talking about that here.

    ~ Kovu

    Idk other night we had like 4-5 soulbeasts and kept killing the commander (then the zerg) whenever they tried to push.

    Obv worse than scourge but not totally useless.

    Com focusing has its own special place in hell with spawn campers and genocidal maniacs.

    All that needs doing to scourge is to remove big shade, then rebalance according to 1 sized shades.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dralor.3701 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @Felipe.1807 said:

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    @Solanopearl.5692 said:
    Scourge is all everyone runs now and Scourge has basically ruined wvw .. groups of 50 running 23 scourges cannot be fought. Only avoided ..

    Not true, a couple of rangers can send that 23/50 scourge group running. Happens many times. It gets to the point you start to feel bad about killing helpless Scourge at range when they have no defense against it.

    lol what? Yeah, i am sure that group is really worried about a couple o rangers...more likely they are just laughing while farming you guys 24/7...lost the count of the number of times I saw Rangers and Thiefs killing thenselfs trying to gank someone when I casted 3# skill on F3 firebrand tome...the projectile hate on the game is way to high for ranger to actually make any diference...if you wanna play ranged, go for Ele, Necro or Rev.

    This. You'd need 2-3 rangers spec'd in well timed unblockable attacks to be able to outchew the passive healing scourges get from their firebrand buddies.
    Obviously roaming is a different story, but we're not talking about that here.

    ~ Kovu

    Idk other night we had like 4-5 soulbeasts and kept killing the commander (then the zerg) whenever they tried to push.

    Obv worse than scourge but not totally useless.

    Com focusing has its own special place in hell with spawn campers and genocidal maniacs.

    All that needs doing to scourge is to remove big shade, then rebalance according to 1 sized shades.

    (灬ºωº灬)

    mmmm

    k

    or just one meteors size shade with cd. =p

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dralor.3701 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @Felipe.1807 said:

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    @Solanopearl.5692 said:
    Scourge is all everyone runs now and Scourge has basically ruined wvw .. groups of 50 running 23 scourges cannot be fought. Only avoided ..

    Not true, a couple of rangers can send that 23/50 scourge group running. Happens many times. It gets to the point you start to feel bad about killing helpless Scourge at range when they have no defense against it.

    lol what? Yeah, i am sure that group is really worried about a couple o rangers...more likely they are just laughing while farming you guys 24/7...lost the count of the number of times I saw Rangers and Thiefs killing thenselfs trying to gank someone when I casted 3# skill on F3 firebrand tome...the projectile hate on the game is way to high for ranger to actually make any diference...if you wanna play ranged, go for Ele, Necro or Rev.

    This. You'd need 2-3 rangers spec'd in well timed unblockable attacks to be able to outchew the passive healing scourges get from their firebrand buddies.
    Obviously roaming is a different story, but we're not talking about that here.

    ~ Kovu

    Idk other night we had like 4-5 soulbeasts and kept killing the commander (then the zerg) whenever they tried to push.

    Obv worse than scourge but not totally useless.

    Com focusing has its own special place in hell with spawn campers and genocidal maniacs.

    All that needs doing to scourge is to remove big shade, then rebalance according to 1 sized shades.

    (灬ºωº灬)

    mmmm

    k

    or just one meteors size shade with cd. =p

    As in the size of the meteor that hits? Sure sounds good, that’s what 180?

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2018

    @Korgov.7645 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Resistance need's to changed from a buff to something else >_>

    Resistance was a big mistake. Nigh permanent 100% immunity to conditions is unhealthy for a competitive game mode. It should receive the same treatment as Stability.

    Yes to start resistance was a big mistake,......
    Gw2 dev's working on skill/classes and balance are simply awfull on that role(they m8 be great on other roles, but not on class stuff)... still i dont think they care much about this threads anyway since Anet keeps enforcing **bad gameplay ** every time, and making awfull changes.

    Anet dev's imo look very lame quality reason classes ended always stupid to play, dont expect much or anything that good, that's what i have learned from this company.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2018

    @apharma.3741 said:
    Com focusing has its own special place in hell with spawn campers and genocidal maniacs.

    If this gamemode had unwritten rules of the things to and not to do, an entire server wouldn't exist.
    Com's got to run tankier stats and make sure there's a second FB (or some other healer like an ele or druid) in his party. =p
    Or abuse stealth antics so the gankers constantly lose target. Smoke fields aren't hard to come by.
    As it was noted earlier, it takes several rangers for it to become a threat, anyway.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger main before it was viable.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    Com focusing has its own special place in hell with spawn campers and genocidal maniacs.

    If this gamemode had unwritten rules of the things to and not to do, an entire server wouldn't exist.
    Com's got to run tankier stats and make sure there's a second FB (or some other healer like an ele or druid) in his party. =p
    Or abuse stealth antics so the gankers constantly lose target. Smoke fields aren't hard to come by.
    As it was noted earlier, it takes several rangers for it to become a threat, anyway.

    ~ Kovu

    Not com focusing is about having a fight, that’s fun and gets to play out. If all you do is beeline 20 people onto one target unless those 20 people are so devoid of intellect a zombie can beat them at chess they will kill the 1 guy pretty easily. What this ends up doing is creating boring and uninteresting fights for both sides which leads to everyone ending up worse off in the long term.

  • Shades need to have longer cooldowns and not allowed to use weapons also when in form. Make it more like Shade or Reaper. As it is right now it can be spammed almost continuously and it is too OP for words.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    Com focusing has its own special place in hell with spawn campers and genocidal maniacs.

    If this gamemode had unwritten rules of the things to and not to do, an entire server wouldn't exist.
    Com's got to run tankier stats and make sure there's a second FB (or some other healer like an ele or druid) in his party. =p
    Or abuse stealth antics so the gankers constantly lose target. Smoke fields aren't hard to come by.
    As it was noted earlier, it takes several rangers for it to become a threat, anyway.

    ~ Kovu

    Not com focusing is about having a fight, that’s fun and gets to play out. If all you do is beeline 20 people onto one target unless those 20 people are so devoid of intellect a zombie can beat them at chess they will kill the 1 guy pretty easily. What this ends up doing is creating boring and uninteresting fights for both sides which leads to everyone ending up worse off in the long term.

    You do realize there are (or should) also be 20 people helping to keep that driver up? Situational awareness is also a thing for the tag, don't push away from your blob if you're taking heavy single target pressure. Most of the time the fights that are "fun and get to play out" involve two tags trying to drop aoe damage on each other's tag -- because frequently if you drop the tag you win. But by all means, take 20 rangers into a small zerg fight and see how that goes for you. (Spoilers, it won't go well.) Use the resources available to you. Don't rely on unwritten gentleman's rules. And anyway, if this sort of thing (ranger pick) worked well enough, frequently enough to be worth running rangers over the traditional GWEN composition, you'd see it more often.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger main before it was viable.
    Fort Aspenwood.

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