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Scourge balance and shade spamming


caudata.1298

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Scourge has always seemed overpowered, but I never understood exactly what the mechanics were like. I finally started playing a scourge and have a better understanding of the mechanics. I would like to make one suggestion that would limit shade spamming on self. As long as you have life force you can use the shade abilities and they will automatically cast on the scourge. My suggestion is that the shade abilities do not become available until after the shade is cast using ground targeting.

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That would put it back into basically an old shroud mode where you couldn't use the shroud skills unless you were in it. I somewhat agree, they made scourge shroud basically an open set of skills instead of the the old death shroud or reaper shroud and thus made it too open for spamming, mind you they give up a second life bar although they got shields for that as well.

I know there are many necros who wanted to break free of relying so heavily on shroud modes, but I think they took it a bit too far in design. They've adjusted many things since then to tone them down, so I don't have much problems as they are now, except for gear choices which can still make them too tanky in some cases.

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Since day 0 of WvW, light armour classes have always been high damage professions for WvW. It's intentional.

Mesmer - 100% health to downed state in 2 seconds.

Ele - 10k meteor showers.

Necro - ruining your protective boons.

It's intentional that light armour classes gets top damage.

Revenant is the outlier, they get huge ranged damage on heavy armour.

Scourge was admittedly very OP at launch, after all the nerfs - it is fine now.

It's around the same level as condi shout reapers and zerker well bombing necros used to be.

Actually they're almost less scary than pre-nerf condi shout reapers with epidemic.

protip: You should try not standing in the hugely obvious solid red flashing circles and learn to play.

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There's a difference between overpowered and unfun. After all the nerfs to scourge, i'd say it's fine, but there's nothing fun about having to navigate 47,882 red circles. There's also the added problem of completely pushing Reaper out of viability. Elite specs should be specs that serve a niche, but scourge pretty much does what reaper does except better and at range, which is probably more due to reaper needing buffs than scourge needing nerfs.

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One of the ironic things with Scourge is that it is a heavily needed spec because it adds boon corruption, group support with barriers, and high ranged aoe damage. It is desirable in groups because it is effective, and the more it was nerfed the more Scourges were needed to keep up the pressure that it brings to enemies and value it brings to groups. The spec is too valuable to ignore in WvW, so just nerfing short of a complete overhaul of its mechanics will just lead to more Scourges in WvW because of what it has to offer.

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@X T D.6458 said:One of the ironic things with Scourge is that it is a heavily needed spec because it adds boon corruption, group support with barriers, and high ranged aoe damage. It is desirable in groups because it is effective, and the more it was nerfed the more Scourges were needed to keep up the pressure that it brings to enemies and value it brings to groups. The spec is too valuable to ignore in WvW, so just nerfing short of a complete overhaul of its mechanics will just lead to more Scourges in WvW because of what it has to offer.

They are doing a significant overhaul to some of the deadeye mechanics. Including changing the way malice is created.

I guess maybe there COULD be an overhaul of scourge incoming.

not-so-secretly doubts it

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@X T D.6458 said:One of the ironic things with Scourge is that it is a heavily needed spec because it adds boon corruption, group support with barriers, and high ranged aoe damage. It is desirable in groups because it is effective, and the more it was nerfed the more Scourges were needed to keep up the pressure that it brings to enemies and value it brings to groups. The spec is too valuable to ignore in WvW, so just nerfing short of a complete overhaul of its mechanics will just lead to more Scourges in WvW because of what it has to offer.

They are doing a significant overhaul to some of the deadeye mechanics. Including changing the way malice is created.

I guess maybe there COULD be an overhaul of scourge incoming.

not-so-secretly doubts it

Its possible, but I honestly doubt they would overhaul Scourge mechanics because it along with Spellbreaker were specifically designed to fill a role.

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@"Sovereign.1093" said:Dont hate on the scourge u.u

To many "bad" groups being carried from scourge & fb stacking,WvW should require more team work and personal player skill rather than stack a stuipidly designed class.

Developers qualiity in this game on class development and iteration is 1/10, so i would rather expect more broken changes than anything else, just look what hapened to mesmer "rework" before the signet got changed...IT is like dev's alone dont knwo the actions of what they are doing.

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@dzeRnumbrd.6129 said:Since day 0 of WvW, light armour classes have always been high damage professions for WvW. It's intentional.

Mesmer - 100% health to downed state in 2 seconds.

Ele - 10k meteor showers.

Necro - ruining your protective boons.

It's intentional that light armour classes gets top damage.

Revenant is the outlier, they get huge ranged damage on heavy armour.

Scourge was admittedly very OP at launch, after all the nerfs - it is fine now.

It's around the same level as condi shout reapers and zerker well bombing necros used to be.

Actually they're almost less scary than pre-nerf condi shout reapers with epidemic.

protip: You should try not standing in the hugely obvious solid red flashing circles and learn to play.

pro tip lets just make corrupt not turn resistance into immoblize that would help alot already.infact resistance should make u immune to corrupt boon if u ask me but i know people will start screaming here that its OP.

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@reddie.5861 said:

@dzeRnumbrd.6129 said:Since day 0 of WvW, light armour classes have always been high damage professions for WvW. It's intentional.

Mesmer - 100% health to downed state in 2 seconds.

Ele - 10k meteor showers.

Necro - ruining your protective boons.

It's intentional that light armour classes gets top damage.

Revenant is the outlier, they get huge ranged damage on heavy armour.

Scourge was admittedly very OP at launch, after all the nerfs - it is fine now.

It's around the same level as condi shout reapers and zerker well bombing necros used to be.

Actually they're almost less scary than pre-nerf condi shout reapers with epidemic.

protip: You should try not standing in the hugely obvious solid red flashing circles and learn to play.

pro tip lets just make corrupt not turn resistance into immoblize that would help alot already.infact resistance should make u immune to corrupt boon if u ask me but i know people will start screaming here that its OP.

Resistance need's to changed from a buff to something else >_>

Problem with gw2 is that everythign is boon wcth gets borked up by ANet dev's in a way or another wich why combat becomes a mess of spam and powercreep try harders, and probably why the bad design on gw2 classes where every expantions classes ended with everything or almost everything.Tranform resistance to stance, only classes that have stances get acces to resistance, add 1 or 2 skills to end stances like gw1, since every class will have every utility type soon or later, every class will have access to resistance but needs to choose that.

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Scourge alone is not the problem currently in WvW, the problem is the huge bands of scourge that are roaming around and dont actually need to do anything to kill people. I realise any zerg ability thats cast will usually slay someone, but what makes it even harder is the fact that this aoe ability follows the caster around, and this (to my knowledge) is the only aoe ability that does this in the game. This makes this aoe ability, compared to every other static ability, so much better and tips the balance for every zerg using it. Due to this wvw has evolved into roaming bands of zergs containing over half of its number as scourges, proving that the scourge is not balanced correctly at all for wvw.

Personally i would like to see it as a stationary pulse ability that doesnt move with the caster, making it match every other ability like it in the game. Until then the numbers of scourge players will be higher than any other class in wvw because its easy mode in a group.

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They could just get rid of a lot of the corrupts for boon strip and some abilities gives out an effect that blocks boon application for 3-5 seconds. This would not have any effect on boons still on you, or abilities that convert condis into boons, you would still get the condi clear just no boons.

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@DemonSeed.3528 said:I think the other one with a moving aoe is torch 5 on berserker warrior but I see practically 0 of these in wvw now.

Tempest has moving AoEs too, the overloads. But unlike scourge's moving AoEs overloads actually have drawbacks, like being interruptible, preventing you from casting weapon skills during their duration, and putting your attunement on a 20 second cooldown when they are done casting. Some would say tht overloads even have too many draw backs, since their casting time is so long. Scourge shades not only lack any sort of drawback, but you can also place a stationary big shade in the enemy zerg in addition to the effect around your character.

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Not much else you can do to scourges until they become useless because of long cooldowns and no corrupts. Then you'll just have more spellbreakers yolo bubbling on you to get rid of all the boons the firebrands and mesmers pump out. Otherwise we are just back to post-HoT boonshare meta which I think we can all agree was garbage.

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@Oozo.7856 said:

@DemonSeed.3528 said:I think the other one with a moving aoe is torch 5 on berserker warrior but I see practically 0 of these in wvw now.

Weaver has moving condition AoE. ;)

Primordial stance is the most similar ability to shades for sure. It's instant just like them and inflicts conditions around you. Still way weaker though, because it eats up a utility slot, has less radius due to sand savant, a larger coodown, has no other similar abilities to be stacked with, has no extra shade to place in the zerg. You probably know all of this already but I just felt the need to point it out.

The scourge mechanic is the pure definition of power creep. The spec needs a redesign in my opinion. And yes, it should get something to use against long range specs too, I know about their issues there.

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@caudata.1298 said:Scourge has always seemed overpowered, but I never understood exactly what the mechanics were like. I finally started playing a scourge and have a better understanding of the mechanics. I would like to make one suggestion that would limit shade spamming on self. As long as you have life force you can use the shade abilities and they will automatically cast on the scourge. My suggestion is that the shade abilities do not become available until after the shade is cast using ground targeting.

That and give the shade skills cast time. It's annoying how you're juggling the Scourge around the place, but as soon as you get to melee range, you better expect that giant red circle to apply conditions on you. That's what makes the Scourge so annoying and easy to play.

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