An Eye on the Deadeye - Page 7 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

An Eye on the Deadeye

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  • Astyrah.4015Astyrah.4015 Member ✭✭✭

    right now i just wish the devs would respond to this thread (they did like, once on page 1 and never again?) because i'm sure they're reading all of our replies but choosing not to respond just yet. when you look at this thread and 2 to 3 other related threads about thief changes, most of the replies or posts (as of this writing) are not really happy with the changes be it being buggy, no longer fun, underwhelming, etc. so i wish they'd at least give everyone some words or acknowledgement

  • I've noticed a lot too that there's some extreme buggyness to DJ realizing you're 'stealthed.' Plenty of times now I've been in stealth and my 1 has not changed to DJ, especially when using Silent Scope. It's like I get kicked out of stealth instantaneously upon dodging, except I still get revealed as though I had cast DJ, preventing me from dumping my malice.

  • Astyrah.4015Astyrah.4015 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    @Zarfall.6521 said:
    I've noticed a lot too that there's some extreme buggyness to DJ realizing you're 'stealthed.' Plenty of times now I've been in stealth and my 1 has not changed to DJ, especially when using Silent Scope. It's like I get kicked out of stealth instantaneously upon dodging, except I still get revealed as though I had cast DJ, preventing me from dumping my malice.

    according to reddit ppl, that buggy-ness happens when you had an outgoing "1" projectile going to the target as you dodged, it will flag it as an attack and immediately cancels the dodge-stealth giving you revealed. while you can avoid that on the dummy golem (disable autos and wait til your shot lands before dodging - like lul?) but in a real fight against a real boss i don't think we can rely on the dodge rolls to stealth before DJ-ing to be consistent in stealthing us for the big hit

  • Volrath.1473Volrath.1473 Member ✭✭✭

    is it just me or rifle #4 lasts 3sec instead of the 5 that says in the tool fact?

  • @Astyrah.4015 said:
    right now i just wish the devs would respond to this thread (they did like, once on page 1 and never again?) because i'm sure they're reading all of our replies but choosing not to respond just yet. when you look at this thread and 2 to 3 other related threads about thief changes, most of the replies or posts (as of this writing) are not really happy with the changes be it being buggy, no longer fun, underwhelming, etc. so i wish they'd at least give everyone some words or acknowledgement

    I think they probably realized that the vast majority of players hate this change to Deadeye and they're now really embarrassed and holding some meeting somewhere on what to do about it. I can imagine the one who first suggested this change is trying to get them to keep it. "Give them time, they'll love it" "But these people seem to like it!"

    Meanwhile anyone who realized what's happening was like "But 90% of Deadeye players just switched to core thief and daredevil..."

    "Nah, they love it!"

  • Astyrah.4015Astyrah.4015 Member ✭✭✭

    @Volrath.1473 said:
    is it just me or rifle #4 lasts 3sec instead of the 5 that says in the tool fact?

    it lasts around short of 5s (the rectangle on the floor stays) but the animations (smokey stuff) goes only for 3 seconds

  • Honestly, I just got the Predator. And now I have to give it to my engie cause I can't use it on my main anymore.

  • Zalavaaris.5329Zalavaaris.5329 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zhou.3605 said:
    Thank you for now "REQUIRING" me to use stealth to use a mechanic other than stealth. I am so happy that now I have no choice but add stealth to my build.

    It's not even requiring stealth for a build. It's an entire classes dps mechanic that requires as much stealth as possible. I was worried about this and it seems I was right.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So you can no longer make your opening move Death's Judgement with full malice stacks. This build no longer feels like a sniper. Before I had a lot more control over Malice gain because it went up automatically and I can use skills to make it go up faster. Now malice disappears after using a Death's Judgement and I have to build up again which means DPS is lower than the previous pass.

    I like the utility of Sniper's Cover at least. A shame that the heal from Maleficent Seven is gone so survivability is lost. That cover doesn't protect you from AoEs that work like projectiles.

  • Vulcaruss.9567Vulcaruss.9567 Member ✭✭✭

    To be completely honest it's blatantly clear why they changed it like this. They wanted to get rid of the perma stealth build where a Deadeye Marks a Target and Stays Stealthed. The Change to Silent Scope makes that clear, now it's harder for Deadeye to get their 2 Stealths out of the rifle, like just simply kneeling twice did for it pre-patch. This move is obviously aimed at WvW and SPvP. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Devs themselves got owned and 1 shotted by these in there spare time and decided it was unfair. These changes are completely blind to PvE Deadeye.

    To be honest this whole problem could of been solved with out such a drastic change. Just make Death Judgement hit for less in WvW and SPvP and leave it's PvE counter part alone.

  • Cameryn.5310Cameryn.5310 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vulcaruss.9567 said:
    To be completely honest it's blatantly clear why they changed it like this.

    They wrecked PvE to shore up WvW/PvP, that's why. PvE is basically screwed... I'd love to hear from ArenaNet exactly in what PvE context they think the Deadeye rifle right now works in, because I'm hard pressed to find it. And malice is completely useless now to P/P.

  • Ugm guys am just 3 days old in the game. Seeing deadeye made me buy the game. So from the comments here the update basically kills the rifle/pistol builds for pve? Atleast I want to be averaged at both pve and pvp. I was even thinking of having a rifle+pistol/pistol build but haven't seen anyone do it or post anything about it.

  • Vulcaruss.9567Vulcaruss.9567 Member ✭✭✭

    It's not like Thief was hurting in Either WvW or SPvP Prior to the patch anyway... This change was just pointless. And made the class unnecessarily harder to play cause of it. The opposite of Arena Nets Intentions on the first page.

  • Vulcaruss.9567Vulcaruss.9567 Member ✭✭✭

    @jenosmaverick.8694 said:
    Ugm guys am just 3 days old in the game. Seeing deadeye made me buy the game. So from the comments here the update basically kills the rifle/pistol builds for pve? Atleast I want to be averaged at both pve and pvp. I was even thinking of having a rifle+pistol/pistol build but haven't seen anyone do it or post anything about it.

    Pistol is still very Viable at this point but it's not going to have access to the new Malice "Fad" Arena Net is pushing with the Stealth Attacks, unless you take several dozen stealth based abilitys in healing skills utility slots, and elite skills. To that point its a near waste of potential. Rifle has been completely upstaged at this point cause every other weapon works better with the new Malice Scaling other than the Weapon intended to make Deadeye Iconic.

  • JonnyForgotten.4276JonnyForgotten.4276 Member ✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    So, you took away Unforgiving.. . . . my build is gone. It was fun playing a brawler thief for a bit. Oh well. Thanks devs!
    Edit: Please change it back.
    Further Edit: Really!?! You replace Unforgiving with Payback? What the heack, Anet, what was the point of this?

  • Leo G.4501Leo G.4501 Member ✭✭✭✭

    From reading the thread so far, the changes are slightly polarizing. Some really do not care for the changes while others love it with some in between that can see a definite improvement in their build.

    Ultimately, I think the change will eventually be accepted by those that continue to get better and better at Deadeye but you can't be considering this a success, right? Changes like these should be saved for when its absolutely necessary, not done on a whim. But I sense you'll continue with this trend, changing professions because you want to while upsetting your playerbase for no reason...

    ...or maybe you weren't being completely honest with how you presented this change? Was it to better balance the profession because it was performing too well or not well enough? From the OP, it seems these changes were brought about because certain aspects were "bland", "lacked adaptability" and "conflicted".

    So how many professions are going to be overhauled for such reasons?

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vulcaruss.9567 said:
    To be completely honest it's blatantly clear why they changed it like this. They wanted to get rid of the perma stealth build where a Deadeye Marks a Target and Stays Stealthed. The Change to Silent Scope makes that clear, now it's harder for Deadeye to get their 2 Stealths out of the rifle, like just simply kneeling twice did for it pre-patch. This move is obviously aimed at WvW and SPvP. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Devs themselves got owned and 1 shotted by these in there spare time and decided it was unfair. These changes are completely blind to PvE Deadeye.

    To be honest this whole problem could of been solved with out such a drastic change. Just make Death Judgement hit for less in WvW and SPvP and leave it's PvE counter part alone.

    you can still stack up malice without leaving stealth, just takes longer. and now backstab does more damage then DJ , i mean evading a DJ is alot easier then evading a BS ..

    read this, become a better player now.

  • Asphelt.6802Asphelt.6802 Member ✭✭

    @jenosmaverick.8694 said:
    Ugm guys am just 3 days old in the game. Seeing deadeye made me buy the game. So from the comments here the update basically kills the rifle/pistol builds for pve? Atleast I want to be averaged at both pve and pvp. I was even thinking of having a rifle+pistol/pistol build but haven't seen anyone do it or post anything about it.

    As a DE main I personally find the changes to be an improvement. You gain max malice in a matter of seconds, rather than 10-20 secs, DJ is easy to access and hits just as hard, if not harder due to unblockable and I've been firing it off way more with this change. Backstab is incredible at max malice, but "that isn't the point of the spec" apparently. Personally I find the lean towards stealth a sensible one. Daredevil dealt with the mobility aspect of thief, why shouldn't this spec focus on the stealth aspect? I never saw elite specs as an upgrade (the current meta in pvp is core thief for example) but more a focus. You can no longer permastealth and stalk your target, which sounds cool but it wasn't viable in pvp and wasn't fun in pve as targets are mostly stationary and who wants to wait for 20 secs to take out one dude? Now you can take out 4 at range all finished off with DJ in that time. Ghillie sniping was only viable in wvw, which I think is where most of the complaints are really coming from. However that is only my opinion and I acknowledge I seem to be in the minority on this one.

  • TL;DR: Please do a full revert of this change.

    I don't ever post. In the past when there were changes that I hated I would just deal with them (e.g. nerf to Berserker). All of my characters are level 80, so I can just play another class. But, in this time, you've taken away a really interesting playstyle (sniper, stealth, high set up time) and now it's completely removed so that this class plays like a lesser version of other classes.

    If anything less than a full revert is under consideration, at least bring back the old Sniper's Cover mechanic.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭

    This basically feels like I can do whatever I was doing before but to stay in control of my positioning and pace it just costs more from one or more resource otherwise I have to run and gun in a way that feels like everyone's going to play the same way. I'm pretty much stuck with M7 if I want to pace myself. I hope it's just a matter of feeling this out and recovering some of the choices, drawbacks and all, that I had before as I learn it more.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • Tashigi.3159Tashigi.3159 Member ✭✭✭

    @Darkstar.7319 said:
    Our raid group tried making Deadeye work in raids tonight (it was never that good, but it was fun) but without Death's judgement and old malice, its dps is utter garbage. Dagger auto-attack does more, and Deadeye dps wasn't that great in pve to begin with. I never post on the forums myself, but gutting the snipe skill from a sniper class just takes away the unique feel of it. I am also of the notion that these balance changes needed to be reverted. Deadeye doesn't feel like a deadeye right now.

    I came to post this exact same thing.
    It's a loss of nearly 9K DPS in worse case scenario. Best case scenario I am losing around 5.5K DPS.
    Plus, this style of gameplay is really, really upsetting me for some reason. I enjoyed the previous playstyle far more. I am having flashbacks of the "Ricochet" trait removal...

  • stone cold.8609stone cold.8609 Member ✭✭✭

    Vulcaruss, you may be right. I think your perspective on the changes depends on your play style and weapon choice. As a non rifle Thief who gave up stealth years ago and is not into the sniper archetype, I really like the changes for a condi D/D build. I'm actually switching from Daredevil to Deadeye because of the changes! So for me, all I can say is good job ANet.

  • Aistos.5174Aistos.5174 Member ✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    @Vulcaruss.9567 said:
    Personally I think the fix is in, the majority of the posts on here are either negative or against, with a few chiming it it some how helps them and makes it better... I personally cannot conceive how. But most of the positive people aren't even using Rifle, which the majority of the changes affect. This change certainly does help Non-Rifle Deadeyes, and I'm not against people using different weapons depending on their choices and styles...

    You Sir are talking out of my mind again. Normally I'm not very active in forums but this time i can not just watch how my favourite class which I built up for the last months is ruined. It really frustrates me and if the changes stay like this I have to stay away from this game (at least for a while).

    I mean all the positive feedback for this changes is coming from people who are playing deadeye without rifle (D/P or D/D, of course thats fine, have fun with it!) But what I really don't understand is why they have to ruin the rifle build of deadeye which is considered to be the main build for this elite class honestly. And the danger is, that the devs now only see the positive feedback of the non-rifle deadeyes and think they did a good job. But in the eyes of a player who loved playing rifle-deadeye over all, this patch destroys the whole game. If this special and unique class is taken out of the game (deadeye with a rifle as it was meant) GW2 loses not only a class but a big part of its diversity.

    Please just give us back the old rifle skills as they where before, the old malice mechanic and the old trait line (actually all the changes Vulcaruss is suggesting in the post before). I don't see any reason for this changes, no one asked for it. If you want to nerf deadeye (very questionable) then you can nerf it in numbers, but please don't destroy it like you did now...

  • Tunagod.8396Tunagod.8396 Member ✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    Well I had a fun time with DE but the changes ruined it completely, thanks Anet for destroying a fun class. This didn't have wvw zerg viability before and even with your kitten talent changes doesn't now. Im done with DE till things change after trying all viable builds I enjoy playing. DD it is.

  • Specialka.7290Specialka.7290 Member ✭✭✭

    I think they messed up with the damage number but I can udnerstand why they did it that way.

    It is no fun to get one shot, and it was not really fun to tag a target then wait 20 sec to just spam Dj ad nauseum.

    Now, we got more dynamic gameplay, a bit clunky tough.

  • Astyrah.4015Astyrah.4015 Member ✭✭✭

    @Specialka.7290 said:
    I think they messed up with the damage number but I can udnerstand why they did it that way.

    It is no fun to get one shot, and it was not really fun to tag a target then wait 20 sec to just spam Dj ad nauseum.

    i mean like all the comments about why they changed DE (because of people getting 1shotted by DE's in WvW), well they could've just changed all of the malice mechanics and traits for PvP/WvW only and left PvE deadeye rifle the same and just gave it flat damage increases across the board for DE/DD/core if they really cared and are lazy about how to make thief more wanted in high end PvE

  • Specialka.7290Specialka.7290 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astyrah.4015 said:

    @Specialka.7290 said:
    I think they messed up with the damage number but I can udnerstand why they did it that way.

    It is no fun to get one shot, and it was not really fun to tag a target then wait 20 sec to just spam Dj ad nauseum.

    i mean like all the comments about why they changed DE (because of people getting 1shotted by DE's in WvW), well they could've just changed all of the malice mechanics and traits for PvP/WvW only and left PvE deadeye rifle the same and just gave it flat damage increases across the board for DE/DD/core if they really cared and are lazy about how to make thief more wanted in high end PvE

    I mean, it was not fun in Pve either. Trash mob, you would never be able to get full malice on any single one in open world. It had to be a veteran or more to hope for that. And once you were at full malice, you just had to spam Dj, not really great gameplay either.

    Maybe in raid and such, you could get full malice on a regular mob, but what after? Spam Dj and that is all.

  • Astyrah.4015Astyrah.4015 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    @Specialka.7290 said:

    @Astyrah.4015 said:

    @Specialka.7290 said:
    I think they messed up with the damage number but I can udnerstand why they did it that way.

    It is no fun to get one shot, and it was not really fun to tag a target then wait 20 sec to just spam Dj ad nauseum.

    i mean like all the comments about why they changed DE (because of people getting 1shotted by DE's in WvW), well they could've just changed all of the malice mechanics and traits for PvP/WvW only and left PvE deadeye rifle the same and just gave it flat damage increases across the board for DE/DD/core if they really cared and are lazy about how to make thief more wanted in high end PvE

    I mean, it was not fun in Pve either. Trash mob, you would never be able to get full malice on any single one in open world. It had to be a veteran or more to hope for that. And once you were at full malice, you just had to spam Dj, not really great gameplay either.

    Maybe in raid and such, you could get full malice on a regular mob, but what after? Spam Dj and that is all.

    and that old rifle gameplay is what drew other people to the class/spec though, including me. now i would be fine with the new changes mind you but only if it rewarded us with better DPS for rifle compared to pre-patch BUT as it stands you need to do more effort for the same DPS, i mean if the devs want me to work a little bit harder to do damage i better get rewarded for it

    EDIT: and when i refer to PvE stuff i mostly refer to metabosses/fractals/champs etc. things that dont die with mark+rifle3 spam reworkedDE or not. for general trash/open world you can get by with any build and any class with some effort.

  • Aistos.5174Aistos.5174 Member ✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    @Specialka.7290 said:
    I think they messed up with the damage number but I can udnerstand why they did it that way.

    It is no fun to get one shot, and it was not really fun to tag a target then wait 20 sec to just spam Dj ad nauseum.

    Now, we got more dynamic gameplay, a bit clunky tough.

    You are right, the one shot possibility was maybe a bit too strong. But to nerf this you don't need to change the whole class and destroy all sniper mechanics of it. Just nerf DJ or make it cost more initiative if necessary. And for sure don't add a useless skill like #4 or evade for stealth. It's not that hard to guess for the enemy (PvP/WvW) where you are after evading backwards while kneeling...

    And did we really need another more dynamic specialization for thief? In my opinion there were already enough possibilitys for a dynamic playstile with a thief with all the other weapons/specializations. Because of this patch the diversity of thief class is gone and with it the possibility to chose a specialization which fits your personal playstyle. So I don't understand at all why they did it that way.

  • Gray.9041Gray.9041 Member ✭✭

    Just gonna chime in here with my feedback.

    Deadeye feels worse to me. The damage is definitely not better, and feels worse. Rifle feels iffy, since the stealth requirement has made death's judgement a lot flakier, and less reliable. Rifle feels odd. The fact I'm encouraged to use three round burst is nice, but I'm using Death's judgement less because stealth is an extra gate and any number of things can break it.

    I like the changes to malice generation, and I'm okay with the new method of consumption. But I miss the old method of Death's judgement, and I feel like deadeye hasn't gotten any more effective at damage or at support.

    Also, for a borderline support spec, deadeye needs to be able to share boons other than might with a decent degree of reliability. If you could share the boons from perfectionist, I could see the use. As is, not so much.

    Also, not a fan of deadeye stolen skills. They're underwhelming, too random to be central to the build, and block the class from useful skills such as those added in raids.

  • Zalavaaris.5329Zalavaaris.5329 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    They need to make a 10 second window of DJs with full malice and remove the stealth requirement. So when I hit 7 stacks of malice I should get a buff that gives me 5-10 seconds of DJs without being stealthed. That for me is the only way this gets better.

  • Astyrah.4015Astyrah.4015 Member ✭✭✭

    @jenosmaverick.8694 said:
    any chance they roll the old deadeye back with this much negative comments?

    i doubt they will, and if ever they'll probably meet us halfway and just give in to some of the suggestions so yeah a full rollback on the rework is very unlikely

  • Kallist.5917Kallist.5917 Member ✭✭✭

    @jenosmaverick.8694 said:
    any chance they roll the old deadeye back with this much negative comments?

    None, the DE community needs to stay vocal on this. It needs to become borderline disruptive to get our point across. To my knowledge, ANet has never rolledback a balance change, no matter how much hate it had. We need to keep these posts up, and whisper GMs every time we see them. My biggest fear is that this hate and outrage for the changes will die out quickly.

  • Borrd.4951Borrd.4951 Member

    After coming back to GW2 from PUBG and Battlefield recently i thought deadeye was the perfect fit for me. But after this patch, im not wasting my time playing GW2 anymore, nor will i spend any of my cash on anything in GW2. if that was the effect the devs wanted.... congrats.
    you screwed the pooch with this change Anet

  • edited May 9, 2018

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    First, we felt that stealth was a solid core mechanic that touched every single thief weapon and had many synergies through core traits and skills.

    Wrong (ignoring the fact that P/P feels thematically more like playing a bandit than a "stealthy thief" anyways): stealth based fighting mechanics are pretty much irrelevant for dual pistol gameplay and frankly, no P/P thief cares about having them either. In regards to weapon skills it's definitely not a "core gameplay mechanic for every single thief weapon" nor should it be.

    I do use stealth with Pistol/Pistol, and pistol/dagger, in the open world PVE, and in fractals.

    On a different point, the deadeye rifle needs much more range. Sniper should be about getting into position, setting up for that perfect 1 shot that kills the target. Or if its a boss, severely hurting it. If the sniper location is discover, or the enemies catches up to the sniper, then the sniper should ether have to flee or die. Setup and cool down should be long. Perhaps more range, and longer cooldown for the kill shot, death judgement. More like what sniper are suppose to be.

  • Armaelus.6120Armaelus.6120 Member ✭✭

    @Gaile Gray.6029

    Hello,
    I'm afraid to understand the new mechanic of malice : Now, it's only bind to DJ, cause only this abilitie use malice to increase damage. But the other sniper's abilities are no concerned. With the passive trait, we have a gain of 10% damage on our target when it's marked. Before this patch, with the malice, we canbuild up all sniper's abilities damage to 15% or 21% (with 7 malices). With this patch I understand we lose this bonus, especially with 7 malices.

    What about to change like this :

    • Put smoke field in the "5" (kneel only, not up) with a passive trait like premeditation or revenge
    • Keep Dj on "4" using all malice when target is hit
    • Keep "silent scope" like it was before patch (kneel => stealh)
    • Change 2nd passive trait : when target killed, damage incoming reduce for 20% in 3s
    • Change 3rd passive trait : 10% base damage on marked target then, +5% extra damage when 5 malices reach or +10% extra damage when 7 malices reach.
  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lone Reanimationist.4263 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    First, we felt that stealth was a solid core mechanic that touched every single thief weapon and had many synergies through core traits and skills.

    Wrong (ignoring the fact that P/P feels thematically more like playing a bandit than a "stealthy thief" anyways): stealth based fighting mechanics are pretty much irrelevant for dual pistol gameplay and frankly, no P/P thief cares about having them either. In regards to weapon skills it's definitely not a "core gameplay mechanic for every single thief weapon" nor should it be.

    Actually I use stealth a lot with Pistol/Pistol ... in the open world PVE, and in fractals. Its essential to the build.

    Yeah, to disengage or skipping some enemies but not for the sake of the actual fighting itself.

  • xp eke xp.6724xp eke xp.6724 Member ✭✭

    At all i like it. It would be nice if you separate mark and malice, cause that makes deadeye more playable. if you can get malice by hitting someone with one skill (not each enermie) it makes the marks and stealth-attacks flexible and you have more options for the idea behind the traitline. So players get a real choice between more stealthplay or if they fokus more on steal(mark). Imo every elite specialisation should fokus on one strength that the class allready had.

    Or do you have other ideas with the spec's? If yes, don't tell me, i like surprises,

    At all thanks for the update.

  • Legatus.3608Legatus.3608 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zalavaaris.5329 said:
    So staff daredevil it is?

    Basically yes

  • Jumpel.3972Jumpel.3972 Member ✭✭

    I actually think they make a big mistake by choosing to remove interaction between Malice and Deadeyes Utilities. These Utilities should consume Malice when hiting the marked target with a bonus for each stack consume. It will make a better interaction between Malice system and weapon with no easy acces to stealth or bad stealth attack (like P/P and condi D/D)

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