Meteor shower numbers

Meteor damage reduction is per target. It is NOT a global damage reduction. If you hit 23x the same target, and then hit a different target, the last hit will have no damage reduction applied to it at all.

Let x be the damage of the first meteor post-patch. x/1.23 is therefore the damage of any meteor pre-patch.

Given only one target:Post-patch damage (all 24 meteors):x + 0.9x + ... + 0.1x + 14 0.1x = 1/10x (10 + 9 + ... + 1) + 1.4x = 6.9x

Pre-patch damage (all 24 meteors):24 * x/1.23 = 19.5122x

Damage reduction of:1 - 6.9x/19.5122x = 65%

Given multiple targetsThe first two meteors hit harder, the 3rd one hits for less:Post-patch damage (third meteor):0.8x

Pre-patch damage (third (essentially any) meteor):x/1.23

Damage reduction of:1-(x*0.8)/(x/1.23) = 1.6%

The sum of the damage for the first four shots is higher post-patch. It is about equal if the fifth shot is added to the sum. The sum of the damage falls off significantly for subsequent meteors.

Post-patch damage (5 meteors):x * (1 + 0.9 + 0.8 + 0.7 + 0.6) = 4x

Pre-patch damage (5 meteors):5x / 1.23 = 4.06504x

Let me know if there are errors in my measly math. I've had beer.

Thanks for numbers. Please add a conclusion to your post explaining what actually happened - nerf or buff and why do you think so.

@Annihilator.2617 said:Thanks for numbers. Please add a conclusion to your post explaining what actually happened - nerf or buff and why do you think so.

The numbers are pretty clear there. In large hitbox fights where all meteors were landing, it's a 65% damage nerf - extremely significant. Even against smaller targets, it's likely to be a loss or break even.

It fares a little better in PvP / WvW, where it equates to a somewhat stronger initial burst, and the diminishing returns aren't likely to be a big factor in many circumstances.

@Annihilator.2617 said:Thanks for numbers. Please add a conclusion to your post explaining what actually happened - nerf or buff and why do you think so.

That really depends.

PvE wise single target: You're pretty much screwed.

In WvW it's more of a buff. You're unlikely to hit the same target more than 5 times. If you do hit a target more than 5 times it's either dead or so highly protected that you shouldn't have bothered placing down a meteor in the first place. I think that a well placed meteor, especially combined with bolt to the heart, is now more devastating than pre-patch.However, given the 65% overall reduction on a single target, you won't be clearing siege as effectively anymore. Guess anet loves them ballistas.

PvP wise: I have no idea. I haven't played pvp in years.

@twiadpaws.8309 said:

@Annihilator.2617 said:Thanks for numbers. Please add a conclusion to your post explaining what actually happened - nerf or buff and why do you think so.

Bountiful power would make more sense than bolt. You always start fight with lots of boons, you drop meteors while buffed and first hits do even more damage than before, so just buff them even more with this trait.

@steki.1478 said:Bountiful power would make more sense than bolt. You always start fight with lots of boons, you drop meteors while buffed and first hits do even more damage than before, so just buff them even more with this trait.

Thanks for the suggestion. However, bountiful power would require me to drop either the fire or air trait line. I don't see how having a conditional buff (dependent on the availability of boons) is better than several unconditional buffs. Assuming that you would run Fire/Arcane/Weaver, would you care to elaborate how you see the arcane trait line as a better over-all damage-dealing setup than the air trait line?

@twiadpaws.8309 said:In WvW it's more of a buff.

Can you please explain why exactly buff? In which circumstances it makes more damage than the previous version?

@Annihilator.2617 said:Can you please explain why exactly buff? In which circumstances it makes more damage than the previous version?

The sum of the damage of the first four meteors per target is higher post-patch than pre-patch.

@twiadpaws.8309 said:

@Annihilator.2617 said:Can you please explain why exactly buff? In which circumstances it makes more damage than the previous version?

For to each target or all targets?

@Annihilator.2617 said:For to each target or all targets?

It applies to all targets since the damage reduction modifier is unique per target.

@twiadpaws.8309 said:

@Annihilator.2617 said:For to each target or all targets?

So each target will receive more damage for first 4 hits than it was before, correct?

@Annihilator.2617 said:

@twiadpaws.8309 said:

@Annihilator.2617 said:For to each target or all targets?

Correct.

Worth noting that Meteor Shower can now do less damage to a single target during a fight than Lava Font. That's not counting the Fire Combo field from Lava Font.

Using the Wiki standard figures, Lava Font does 1,292 and can be cast 4 times in during Meteor Shower's CD, for a total of 5,168. Meteor Shower does 523 x 1.23 x 6.9= 4,455. That relative gap holds for the modified numbers in my own toolbar, too.

@twiadpaws.8309 said:

@steki.1478 said:Bountiful power would make more sense than bolt. You always start fight with lots of boons, you drop meteors while buffed and first hits do even more damage than before, so just buff them even more with this trait.

All air traits are conditional except ferocity one though. You gain precision in air, but you have no reason to stay in air for too long. Bolt requires low targets, but no reasonable person would stay in fight on low HP, they would most likely use some kind of defense to avoid/reduce damage. If they happen to stay in fight, they'll get molested by tons of other placed aoes, so your extra damage means nothing (if target has 5k hp, it doesnt matter if you hit them for 10 or 12k, they will still go down). Fury is irrelevant because of heralds.

In a proper party you always start combat with at least 8 boons, which gives you enough modifiers to drop your meteors for stronger initial spike (basically a half squad CoR level of impact). It also lets you play more aggressively because of vigor and arcane shield. Last but not least, it provides boons to allies and improves might uptime.

In the end, dead ele does no damage. Arcane gives you good utility and good balance between offence and defense.

So is it better to cancel meteor shower after few hits?

@twiadpaws.8309 said:

@steki.1478 said:Bountiful power would make more sense than bolt. You always start fight with lots of boons, you drop meteors while buffed and first hits do even more damage than before, so just buff them even more with this trait.

You drop Air. In PvE it was already meta, that's why nerfing randomly Tempest Defense was so hilariously bad.

Despite Meteor Shower's huge radius, it still affects a max of 3 targets. Lava Font can affect up to 5... and it can be cast 4 times before a second Meteor Shower, dishing out more damage to multiple enemies.

Yes, yes, Meteor Shower threatens a bigger area. And it still could - if the RNG meteors fall correctly - do more damage to three widely-spaced enemies in a single cast than Lava Font. But who worries more about Damage-per-Cast than Damage per Second?

Meteor Shower remains a useful zoning tool. But by the numbers, it now trails Lava Font as a source of damage.

If you mean this:

@"Ringlin.1863" said:Worth noting that Meteor Shower now does less damage to a single target than Lava Font. That's not counting the Fire Combo field from Lava Font.

Using the Wiki standard figures, Lava Font does 4 x 1,292= 5,168. Meteor Shower does 523 x 1.23 x 6.9= 4,455. That relative gap holds for the modified numbers in my own toolbar, too.

then you did wrong calculations..

"The damage listed is the total damage, not per pulse."Lava font

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:So is it better to cancel meteor shower after few hits?

For single targets, I would also like to know what the consensus on this is. Since MS pops what, 24 meteors, and cancelling it early means you only get like 8 or 16 (IIRC, going off memory), that would potentially make MS just a filler before Lava Font.

@JackassTheX.6351 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:So is it better to cancel meteor shower after few hits?

As far as I know, on small and large hitboxes canceling ends up losing marginal dps, on medium ones it ends up gaining some dps. Basically stick with the same rotation, but Meteor Shower is no longer you primary damage source, Lava Font is.

@Mak.2657 said:If you mean this:

@"Ringlin.1863" said:Worth noting that Meteor Shower now does less damage to a single target than Lava Font. That's not counting the Fire Combo field from Lava Font.

Using the Wiki standard figures, Lava Font does 4 x 1,292= 5,168. Meteor Shower does 523 x 1.23 x 6.9= 4,455. That relative gap holds for the modified numbers in my own toolbar, too.

I meant that Lava Font can be cast four times while Meteor Shower is on CD, but I see that wasn't clear, thanks. To avoid any confusion, I edited the original post.

@"Feanor.2358" said:Basically stick with the same rotation, but Meteor Shower is no longer you primary damage source, Lava Font is.

That's what I've come to as well, I don't know why people freak out about this nerf so much, I did at first too, it's such an iconic skill (it was even in GW1) and agree there were probably other ways of reducing the insane damage done by MS (why not just... reduce the base damage by a percentage? Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best ...), but I think there are some other (non-DPS related) bonuses. You don't have to stand still ever x seconds any more is a one, though I agree this aspect is what made Weaver challenging and thus also rewarding. You are now somewhat encouraged to re-arrange your fillers for a more spammable skill (Lava Font), which makes the Weaver even more "piano-player-y" - that might be a plus for some. I don't know, maybe I'm just not that bothered by not seeing big numbers (common if you're a Necro, you see a boatload of smaller ones) and I still find nuking things as a mage-like character fun regardless.

@JackassTheX.6351 said:there were probably other ways of reducing the insane damage done by MS (why not just... reduce the base damage by a percentage? Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best ...

The problem with meteor shower was that there was about a 10k DPS difference between how well it did on a small target vs a large target. This change had minimal impact on the small target number (after adjusting for Spotter/EA/Frost Spirit nerfs). The only major change was the difference between Small and Large Targets (which is closer to 5k now instead of 10k).