Stealth'em if you've got'em

Honestly, what is the standard now?

Stealth on dodge? Are we really at that level now? I was shocked when Daredevil got Stealth by dodging through a smoke field, but a simple dodge now?

I was always told that the reason Heartseeker is not an evasion skill is because it allows counterplay by being vulnerable to interruption.

But now, there is a completely uninterruptable method of Stealth that requires no utility, inititiative, or even skill use. It can have literally 30% uptime.

On top of that, a specialization not only can Stealth through a simple dodge, but has access to a utility that can remove Revealed.

Please understand that I'm not complaining about improvements given to a Thief's Stealth abilities. But what I am annoyed about is lack of consistency of the Thief's Stealth abilities as a whole.

Where is the argument now that Stealth should be deniable? Why shouldn't the Core Thief have more access to Stealth? Why shouldn't the Core Thief have more ability to counter Revealed?

It's starting to seem that a lot of Deadeye should have been incorporated into Shadow Arts just as a lot of Daredevil was a replacement for what was ripped out of Acrobatics.

Deadeye started out as a "sniper" specialization, but I think it should be renamed to "Shadow Assassin." Really, a 10% bonus to Backstab damage for every stack of Malice? What does a Dagger have to do with being a sniper or gun-fighter? It seems way out of place... a lot of things seem way out of place. And a lot of old arguments seem to be obsolete, and old discussions should be discussed again.

Themes are fine and all, but overall an Elite traitline should benefit all the weapon-types to some extent, or else it'll become stale quick.Daredevil benefits from all the weapons available to it, and Deadeye should be no different, marketing be damned.

@TwiceDead.1963 said:Themes are fine and all, but overall an Elite traitline should benefit all the weapon-types to some extent, or else it'll become stale quick.Daredevil benefits from all the weapons available to it, and Deadeye should be no different, marketing be damned.

A trait that only benefitted rifle before now only benefits rifle. How is that not alright?

Besides, it's a dodge roll. You can Dodge Kneel Dodge for 6 seconds, huge deal.

@"Kageseigi.2150" said:Honestly, what is the standard now?

Stealth on dodge? Are we really at that level now? I was shocked when Daredevil got Stealth by dodging through a smoke field, but a simple dodge now?

I was always told that the reason Heartseeker is not an evasion skill is because it allows counterplay by being vulnerable to interruption.

But now, there is a completely uninterruptable method of Stealth that requires no utility, inititiative, or even skill use. It can have literally 30% uptime.

On top of that, a specialization not only can Stealth through a simple dodge, but has access to a utility that can remove Revealed.

Please understand that I'm not complaining about improvements given to a Thief's Stealth abilities. But what I am annoyed about is lack of consistency of the Thief's Stealth abilities as a whole.

Where is the argument now that Stealth should be deniable? Why shouldn't the Core Thief have more access to Stealth? Why shouldn't the Core Thief have more ability to counter Revealed?

It's starting to seem that a lot of Deadeye should have been incorporated into Shadow Arts just as a lot of Daredevil was a replacement for what was ripped out of Acrobatics.

Deadeye started out as a "sniper" specialization, but I think it should be renamed to "Shadow Assassin." Really, a 10% bonus to Backstab damage for every stack of Malice? What does a Dagger have to do with being a sniper or gun-fighter? It seems way out of place... a lot of things seem way out of place. And a lot of old arguments seem to be obsolete, and old discussions should be discussed again.

the problem is people complain about thiefs becease they get kiled by them if they run solo so they go to fora and complain that leads to nerfes of builds that worked perfectly thx to the noobs that not understand that thief is a class that need to shine out in a 1v1 if u create a thief the info on the bottom of the screen says enough

The old trait had the same stealth uptime as the new one. You could argue the new one is worse since you're now using endurance for your stealth, which you previously did not.

@Nascull.5842 said:

@"Kageseigi.2150" said:Honestly, what is the standard now?

Stealth on dodge? Are we really at that level now? I was shocked when Daredevil got Stealth by dodging through a smoke field, but a simple dodge now?

I was always told that the reason Heartseeker is not an evasion skill is because it allows counterplay by being vulnerable to interruption.

But now, there is a completely uninterruptable method of Stealth that requires no utility, inititiative, or even skill use. It can have literally 30% uptime.

On top of that, a specialization not only can Stealth through a simple dodge, but has access to a utility that can remove Revealed.

Please understand that I'm not complaining about improvements given to a Thief's Stealth abilities. But what I am annoyed about is lack of consistency of the Thief's Stealth abilities as a whole.

Where is the argument now that Stealth should be deniable? Why shouldn't the Core Thief have more access to Stealth? Why shouldn't the Core Thief have more ability to counter Revealed?

It's starting to seem that a lot of Deadeye should have been incorporated into Shadow Arts just as a lot of Daredevil was a replacement for what was ripped out of Acrobatics.

Deadeye started out as a "sniper" specialization, but I think it should be renamed to "Shadow Assassin." Really, a 10% bonus to Backstab damage for every stack of Malice? What does a Dagger have to do with being a sniper or gun-fighter? It seems way out of place... a lot of things seem way out of place. And a lot of old arguments seem to be obsolete, and old discussions should be discussed again.

This true.

It wasn't an improvement though :rollseyes:

@Nascull.5842 said:the problem is people complain about thiefs becease they get kiled by them if they run solo so they go to fora and complain that leads to nerfes of builds that worked perfectly thx to the noobs that not understand that thief is a class that need to shine out in a 1v1 if u create a thief the info on the bottom of the screen says enough

That's what I don't understand. Anet has nerfed Stealth, Backstabs, and Thieves in general. They have created counters to Stealth access, Stealth itself, and Stealth attacks. They did it in the name of creating healthy gameplay, though it was probably due to complaints.

That's why Heartseekers can be interrupted. That's why Shadow Refuge reveals players who leave the AoE early. That's why other professions got Reveal skills. That's why Ghost Trapper and perma-CnD got removed. That's why Stealth Attacks got a 1-second cooldown.

But then Anet makes a 180, and adds everything that got complained about and removed to Deadeye. I don't get it...

Uninterruptable StealthRevealed removalOne-shot attacks from Stealth

That seems like just adding fuel to the fire to create complaints exponentially.

Again, I'm not angry or complaining that the Thief is gaining these capabilities. What I am saying is that if these capabilities are now acceptable, then let's look at upgrading the Thief as a whole. And if they are not acceptable, then why were they even given to the Deadeye?

You're 100% right. It's extremely inconsistent and we're seeing the same arguments surface from years' past.

Remember when SA was overpowered? Why was that? Because it got free damage for camping stealth. So they removed that, and the people who played SA stealth camper and lost their safe damage and defense got upset. And DE now more than ever just reinforces that kind of play mentality that so many people, including ANet admitted was anti-fun.

To add to your list:

• Initially Revealed didn't even exist, so they added it because people were just spamming stealth -> damage -> repeat for easy kills.
• Early, Assassin's Signet 1HKO potential was horrendously overpowered. So they nerfed it (and then did so a second time with the signet reworks) because it was autokilling people with no counterplay.
• Mesmer megabursting with mirage is getting huge attention and criticism. So they just give it to thief with extra damage scaling for no reason.

The list goes on and on.

I think it's just lack of understanding by the professions team as to how people exploit these kinds of builds. It's not unique to the Deadeye. It's just every time there's any work that gets done, it seems like we're doing 1 step forward 2 steps back into problem concepts we've already had emerge in the past.

And if these kind of insane mechanics are needed to keep the class competitive, it just screams that the problems are bigger and more aspects of the game need to be looked into.

Daredevil with its gap closer spam and ability to shrug off soft CC with Unhindered Combatant is amazing. I use it all the time. Giving that up for free stealths on evade might be interesting Ill have to check it out.