ENGI HEALER Raid

Any chance engi healer will take place in raiding?

@Liviathan.5249 said:Any chance engi healer will take place in raiding?

Too soon to say. Give us time to experiment.

Like zoopop's video shows, it was already possible.The thing is, since druids give might and the frozen spirit buff to 10 players, you can take mostly any class has a second healer (or go solo heal if your team can handle it).

For the medikit and talents changes it's huge indeed, it makes engineers much more consistant healers, with the bulwark gyro as a unique mitigation tool. However it's too bad to see that Heat therapy and Medical dispersion field are still not working together for the Holo build.This said healing engies have no damage enhancement mecanics like Renegades, Guardians or ... Scourge... sort of.Anyway I'm surely gonna try it next timer, I need to check how good the gyro can be.

On another note engies might be a little short on might generation for fractals ~

Right now the best secondary healer/most wanted will be ventari renegade, imho. Engi got some very deserved changes to medkit but it still doesn't bring offensive utility outside the new much weaker PPD and that's all people want.

@Gravenz.6258 said:Like zoopop's video shows, it was already possible.The thing is, since druids give might and the frozen spirit buff to 10 players, you can take mostly any class has a second healer (or go solo heal if your team can handle it).

For the medikit and talents changes it's huge indeed, it makes engineers much more consistant healers, with the bulwark gyro as a great mitigation tool. My only regret being that Heat therapy and Medical dispersion field are still not working together.However healing engies have no damage enhancement mecanics like Renegades, Guardians or ... Scourge... sort of.This said I'm surely gonna try it next timer, I need to check how good the gyro can be.

On another note engies might be a little short on might generation for fractals ~

I would think that the overall nerfs to Druid healing might cause groups to favor a non-Druid secondary healer (or a Druid that took Lingering Light, and sacrificing Might generation from Grace of the Land).

@Gravenz.6258 said:Like zoopop's video shows, it was already possible.The thing is, since druids give might and the frozen spirit buff to 10 players, you can take mostly any class has a second healer (or go solo heal if your team can handle it).

For the medikit and talents changes it's huge indeed, it makes engineers much more consistant healers, with the bulwark gyro as a unique mitigation tool. However it's too bad to see that Heat therapy and Medical dispersion field are still not working together for the Holo build.This said healing engies have no damage enhancement mecanics like Renegades, Guardians or ... Scourge... sort of.Anyway I'm surely gonna try it next timer, I need to check how good the gyro can be.

On another note engies might be a little short on might generation for fractals ~

Both of the things you mentioned for druids got nerfed. Frost Spirit is half as effective (5%), and Spotter got nerfed by a third. On top of that, they now have to choose between being great healers or giving might when they heal. The sum total, imo, is that engi definitely has a chance to replace druid as a healer with the new medkit and Health Insurance, especially since this doesn't even cover the other benefits a support engi can offer.

Also, I am so hoping that the next elite is a support spec.

@Ojimaru.8970People are going to experiment, especially those who are sick of playing druid during 2 years... but even with those nerf it doesn't make double druid less viable and that's good for guilds who want to keep it that way, it's just a waste when other healers have better tools in various situations. On Matthias for exemple I'd take a Renegade or Auramancer all day instead of a second druid.

@bearshaman.3421Might generation has been nerfed indeed, but dispite the healing power nerf druids are still reliable in both from the raid I've done yesterday.Regarding the frost spirit, its nerf is substential, it went from 10 to 5% but now procs 100% of the time instead of 75%. It stays extremely powerful from the simple fact that it reaches 10 players and its bonus damage is based on percentage, which is what makes druid so strong since it came out (Glyph of empowerment, old grace of the land, frost spirit).Other classes are limited to static procs regardless of a strike intensity, which sucks a little because it usualy scales with damage stats that you don't have as a healer :T. If FireBrand's ashes of the just or Renegades elite skill could scale differently regardeless if you have condi or power damage, they would be more interesting already.

About engineers, our only great tool is defensive, like strong as heck defensive, -66% damage on your group, fairly often with alacrity, is nothing to laugh at.An yes I clearly hope we get an elite spec that works well with the new medikit :p

Druid might generation was Buffed, not nerfed. It takes about 1 extra second to ramp up the might assuming you get 0 might from the rest of the group, but upkeep should be SIGNIFICANTLY more reliable now than it was before.

@Gravenz.6258 said:@Ojimaru.8970People are going to experiment, especially those who are sick of playing druid during 2 years... but even with those nerf it doesn't make double druid less viable and that's good for guilds who want to keep it that way, it's just a waste when other healers have better tools in various situations. On Matthias for exemple I'd take a Renegade or Auramancer all day instead of a second druid.

@bearshaman.3421Might generation has been nerfed indeed, but dispite the healing power nerf druids are still reliable in both from the raid I've done yesterday.Regarding the frost spirit, its nerf is substential, it went from 10 to 5% but now procs 100% of the time instead of 75%. It stays extremely powerful from the simple fact that it reaches 10 players and its bonus damage is based on percentage, which is what makes druid so strong since it came out (Glyph of empowerment, old grace of the land, frost spirit).Other classes are limited to static procs regardless of a strike intensity, which sucks a little because it usualy scales with damage stats that you don't have as a healer :T. If FireBrand's ashes of the just or Renegades elite skill could scale differently regardeless if you have condi or power damage, they would be more interesting already.

About engineers, our only great tool is defensive, like strong as heck defensive, -66% damage on your group, fairly often with alacrity, is nothing to laugh at.An yes I clearly hope we get an elite spec that works well with the new medikit :p

I was confused on the spirits. It said that they changed it from 75 to 100% for the player, and I wondered if the chance of it proccing for allies was still at 75%.

@Knox.8962 said:Druid might generation was Buffed, not nerfed. It takes about 1 extra second to ramp up the might assuming you get 0 might from the rest of the group, but upkeep should be SIGNIFICANTLY more reliable now than it was before.

I was more referencing that you have to choose between being good at healing or good at might support, where as before you didn't have to choose you could have both.

I have my doubts, but willing to try next week when my guild does the easy wings. Even with good healing numbers (which at first glance in full Harriers it appears to be pretty decent) it feels one dimensional. I suspect the Heal Engi will be able to do a lot of healing, but won't bring might stacking, unique buffs, or any other powerful utility besides healing. Maybe we can still be really good breakbar while healing? That's a kind of utility I suppose. Also potentially would do more damage than a Druid which is sort of a utility also? I don't know.

One thing I will say is a large part of the success/failure of this build relies on how exactly MDF works. Does it work on every single instance of self healing, or just skills that heal? Meaning, will it work on Regen I've applied to myself, or just skills that directly apply healing like Bandage Self? Does it apply on Blast Finishers?

This is the first pass of what I think I will use. Spectrum Shield is sort of a placeholder flexible spot... Elixir C for more condi removal, U for walls, R for revives, etc. Also I'm not sure if PBM would be better to just sit at 50%+ heat and not use PF, but I will first try to just hover between 50% and 150% to get HLA buffed. The most obvious problem this presents is being in PF when you need to heal but I'll see how it goes. I think you need to actually use PF during heal downtimes to keep at least some damage up to provide some sort of advantage over other healers... Plus the constant Heat Therapy ticks in AOE could be nice.

Also while I desperately want Scrapper to work I just don't see it. No damage, and HLA is too good to pass up to me. Also I want shield, and I don't want to be stuck with pistol to do so.

Had a go using this build in my Fractal static group last nighthttp://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASlsThaqYVVw2Kw6FLTGF9cX37d42VWfnY4dABAA-jBhXQBIU5XDVC6P1fAw+DAA-e

Based on the healing, it was definitely capable of doing decent burst healing (~3k shared healing just from bandage self alone)With all turrets down, it can maintain 12 stacks of might, perma fury and 60% retal uptime, among other buffs.

As a build, its definitely fun as hell to play, but given its terrible dps (even when compared to druids), the only redeeming factor support engi can bring that druid cant is decent retaliation uptime, since Pinpoint is locked behind firearms traitline and to use Bulwolk Gyro would require scaraficing Might, Fury or retal uptime.

@Liviathan.5249 said:Any chance engi healer will take place in raiding?

Only if you're using Healing Power stats and if you're using the Med Kit skill rotation: skill 4, skill 3, skill 5, any blast finisher. I've received the most healing medal at the end of many PvP matches, even without using the Mender's Amulet and it's doing great. In raids, we need more time to test it there.

@Ojimaru.8970 said:

@Gravenz.6258 said:Like zoopop's video shows, it was already possible.The thing is, since druids give

might

and the

frozen spirit

buff to 10 players, you can take mostly any class has a second healer (or go solo heal if your team can handle it).

For the

medikit

and

talents

changes it's huge indeed, it makes engineers much more consistant healers, with the bulwark gyro as a great mitigation tool. My only regret being that

Heat therapy

and

Medical dispersion field

are still not working together.However healing engies have no damage enhancement mecanics like Renegades, Guardians or ... Scourge... sort of.This said I'm surely gonna try it next timer, I need to check how good the gyro can be.

On another note engies might be a little short on might generation for fractals ~

The nerfs to druid's might generation, if anything, give more incentive to double-up on druids. But since boon chronos can generate a generous amount themselves, I think a non-druid second healer can be a valid option.

@"Vansten.5309" said:Had a go using this build in my Fractal static group last nighthttp://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASlsThaqYVVw2Kw6FLTGF9cX37d42VWfnY4dABAA-jBhXQBIU5XDVC6P1fAw+DAA-e

Based on the healing, it was definitely capable of doing decent burst healing (~3k shared healing just from bandage self alone)With all turrets down, it can maintain 12 stacks of might, perma fury and 60% retal uptime, among other buffs.

As a build, its definitely fun as hell to play, but given its terrible dps (even when compared to druids), the only redeeming factor support engi can bring that druid cant is decent retaliation uptime, since Pinpoint is locked behind firearms traitline and to use Bulwolk Gyro would require scaraficing Might, Fury or retal uptime.

That's a full glass though, would it be possible to use it as the tank (relatively speaking) at the same time and get some dps from condi by going say apothecary? Just wondering if that could be a good purpose for it. One would sacrifice boon duration (using the sigil would help a little) and scrapper would probably have to be swapped to firearms. It would have more healing power though (50% boost) and should be able to maintain dps better while doing its heal rotations. Prolly would swap the rifle turret for elixir gun.

I have no idea what the actual dps difference would be though, I suck at PvE dps testing and overall raiding.

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ojimaru.8970 said:

@Gravenz.6258 said:Like zoopop's video shows, it was already possible.The thing is, since druids give

might

and the

frozen spirit

buff to 10 players, you can take mostly any class has a second healer (or go solo heal if your team can handle it).

For the

medikit

and

talents

changes it's huge indeed, it makes engineers much more consistant healers, with the bulwark gyro as a great mitigation tool. My only regret being that

Heat therapy

and

Medical dispersion field

are still not working together.However healing engies have no damage enhancement mecanics like Renegades, Guardians or ... Scourge... sort of.This said I'm surely gonna try it next timer, I need to check how good the gyro can be.

On another note engies might be a little short on might generation for fractals ~

There were no nerfs to might generation if you play harrier.With 100% boon duration you had 3 might for 10 seconds per proc and now you have 2 might for 16 seconds per proc.

To upkeep 24 might you needed 8 procs for 10 seconds - 24 procs for 30 seconds

Now for 24 might you need 12 procs for 16 seconds - that is 24 proc for 32 seconds.

The only diference is that you need to spend more time in ca but you can go in ca less frequently. One druid is still more then enough for mightstacking, especialy when chrono helps quite abit.

Did some test runs in fractal yesterday with 3DPS and 1 Chrono.

I used the Scrapper variant, since I don't really see the point of Holo, at least as long as MDF doesn't work with Heat therapy.My equipement is a full Magi set, harrier weapons with concentration sigil and harrier trinkets/back. Monk runes equipped, but I'm considering Altruism runes.For the skill bar I'm using Pistol and Shield, blast and bulwark gyro, elixir gun, mortar and of course the sexy range rez of the Function gyro. The blast gyro is a good source of cc and super-speed in tight situations but you can switch it with whatever you need at the time.

The result is surprising, I've never done a fractal so peacefully. The bulwark gyro's mitigation is so insane that keeping your party alive even in high pressure situations is just ... easy. Which means that your DPS can get a better damage uptime on bosses, thus more damage.As an exemple, yesterday's fractals were Thaumanova and Snowblind (screw Aquatic ruins lol). Dispite the low might generation we killed subject 6 with the dps strat easily, we could stand in the poison and other AoE without issues at all. Then for the last boss of snowblind, that can quickly turn chaotic with trash mobs and falling ice, we mostly stood in the middle and focus the boss / adds with no pressure at all ~I'm also theorising with the last boss of swamp, you'd be able to completely ignore his jump charge+aoe without a need to cc. I'm also curious to see how this build would work on MaiTrin.Let's just say that the way scrapper brings additional damage to your group is by staying on bosses while ignoring lethal mecanics that previously needed to be dodged or avoided.

I'm not much for the concept of healers having to do damage on their own, but the complete safety that the scrapper variant brings with the Bulwark gyro, Protective dome, insane debuff removal, stability on demande and other tools is just relaxing to play with. You'd usually keep enough buffs with the way Chronos work anyway and if your team is competant, you frankly don't need that 100% 25might uptime to complete them quickly ~

Was the Bulwark gyro changed at some point? Damage mitigation is great but it has such low health I don't think it's doing nearly as much as you think it is.

Function Gyro is definitely the biggest draw of Scrapper to me. If Heat Therapy is the only thing MDF doesn't work with I don't think that hurts Holo too much. I think Holo might be better just for HLA, and but sticking you with an untraited pistol (ew). It's too bad you can't share all those barriers on Scrapper, except for the one revive trait.

I agree that healers don't need to do damage, that will not be part of my evaluation of if Engi healing works. It could be important though if Engi lacks utility compared to Druid. It needs to do something to be competitive.

@Adamantium.3682To be frank I've never seen the bulwark gyro die prematurely. It stays active for 15seconds and benefits like all pets of a damage reduction on AoE damage. However there are some situations like the gladiator in Chaos that could indeed daze the gyro, preventing the buff, just like with renegade's spirits :T

I also think the HLA is an amazing tool, but slightly less with the patch. It's very easy to maintain Regenaration now compared to pre-patch and Fury and Protection can be delt with by the chrono from what I've noticed. You can still give additional protection with the shield obviously, and I'm considering Altruism runes for might and fury procs (that also scale with concentration).

About the pistol... it doesn't bug me that much. Worst case scenario you can still go for a rifle for additional mobility, and cc for some protection.

PS: Funny enough, when I first heard about Holosmith I thought Engies would finally have a support spec based on barriers :p

Thanks for the hands on insights. I always remember the Bulwark dying super fast, not from being attacked just from absorbing damage. Maybe the mechanics behind it got tweaked or I am misremembering. EDIT: wiki says Watchful Eye effect lingers even if gyro dies. Awesome.

Another thing I could think of working for scrapper is that it will keep you alive better. A lot of the Engi healing does not help the Engi so that might be really valuable.

I look forward to trying it out

@Ojimaru.8970 said:

@Gravenz.6258 said:Like zoopop's video shows, it was already possible.The thing is, since druids give

might

and the

frozen spirit

buff to 10 players, you can take mostly any class has a second healer (or go solo heal if your team can handle it).

For the

medikit

and

talents

changes it's huge indeed, it makes engineers much more consistant healers, with the bulwark gyro as a great mitigation tool. My only regret being that

Heat therapy

and

Medical dispersion field

are still not working together.However healing engies have no damage enhancement mecanics like Renegades, Guardians or ... Scourge... sort of.This said I'm surely gonna try it next timer, I need to check how good the gyro can be.

On another note engies might be a little short on might generation for fractals ~

Or, more likely what happened with mesmer, double down on it.I mean when they made spirit buffs work for the whole 10 Raiders, they pretty much allowed groups to get inventive on the second healer, because Druid was good enough to cover for any lacks, and except for spotter, the unique boons were good for all...Now, it's more likely that people will want a druid mirror comp, if the healing seems to be faltering.

I can see now why we'd want to use Scrapper if Bulwark works. It is better than protection, unique stacking buff. Plus the toolbelt is applicable to a healing role, HLA isn't.

Can anyone say if MDF works with Rapid Regeneration? That would push me over the edge :)

Rapid regen works, but backpack does not

At least that was how it worked last time I tested it.

After paying more attention to the BW Gyro it does take a significant amount of damage, it's like mobs have 100% crit chance on it. It still has some time to share its buff and the cd is fairly low with Alacrity. So its survival really depends on heals it gets and positioning