Why revenant can't use Greatsword

Maybe someone already ask about it but why revenant can't use greatsword ? I'm maybe wrong but Rytlock use Greatsword right ? Or is it just a big one handed sword ?

So if greatsword is in revenant lore why can't we use it ?I think adding greatsword to revenant's weapon set could be a good opportunity to buff DPS build since everybody seems to complain about how weak rev is. And apparently people prefer play other profession and keep complaining instead of playing a profession they enjoy (for different reasons) but with lower efficiency than other profession.

Hope my english is understandable and thank you in advance for the answers.

Rytlock was originally a Warrior, not sure if He appears wielding a greatsword in promotional art or cinematics but in any case that was in the past and is not related to the Revenant. Don't try to extract too much conclusions about the lore because oftenly there's not relation between the canon and the mechanics of the game.

Also, new weapons doesn't mean a buff to dps: take a look at the trident.

Hum ok I see. That's true that Rytlock was a Warrior in the first place so that make sense.

I was hoping I could use GS with my rev on day because legendary GS have the best skin for me.

And about the DPS buff. I was just saying that if they added GS it would be a good idea to use it to buff rev.Anyway I will keep trying to play rev without being discouraged by people saying that rev is weak. At least some people posted some great build for every game mode, except maybe pvp, on metabattle.

Not sure if Revenant needs another melee weapon at this point of time. If they give us the GS as a ranged (power) weapon (what Hammer should have been) like Mesmer I'd be fine with it though.

@oOAvengerOo.6714 said:

I was hoping I could use GS with my rev on day because legendary GS have the best skin for me.

I agree, meanwhile Eternity is stacking dust in my Guardian. But I don't want the current Rev team designing a greatsword for Rev . Life for Revs seems so much more miserable compared to how the class was just 12 months ago...

@Buran.3796 said:

@oOAvengerOo.6714 said:

I was hoping I could use GS with my rev on day because legendary GS have the best skin for me.

I don't do raid because I never invested time to learn the rotation but I heard that even if other class can do things better than rev, rev still has condi build and support/heal build for raid. If you don't play raid with stupid tryharder, people will understand that even if you are not as efficient as other profession you will not fail the run just because you play rev.So that said we have some diversity for endgame content which not all profession have.So miserable is a strong word.I think mastering rev is pretty rewarding because even if you will never be top dps or top healer, your gameplay will be enjoyable because you will be playing Rev not because it's OP but because you like the gameplay.Maybe I leave in a dream because I don't played Rev enough to give advice on build but I'm planning on learning how to play different Rev build while doing map completion and at the end I will pick the gameplay style I like the most.

@oOAvengerOo.6714 said:

@Buran.3796 said:

@oOAvengerOo.6714 said:

I was hoping I could use GS with my rev on day because legendary GS have the best skin for me.

Thank you for having a brain. That's a rare thing in the internet.

My opinion on GS for revenant, however, differs from yours. I don't want rev to ever get a greatsword. Just for personal reasons, I usually dislike massive swords, and I also think it doesn't fit the profession. My opinion on the matter is kind of irrelevant though. If they decide to give rev a GS next expansion, I just wont use it.

@Yannir.4132 said:Thank you for having a brain. That's a rare thing in the internet.

My opinion on GS for revenant, however, differs from yours. I don't want rev to ever get a greatsword. Just for personal reasons, I usually dislike massive swords, and I also think it doesn't fit the profession. My opinion on the matter is kind of irrelevant though. If they decide to give rev a GS next expansion, I just wont use it.

Like others I try to save new player and casual player like me from try harder who wants everything to be optimal and forget about fun and playing what you like. Even if sometimes you can be satisfied by playing meta build and achieving raid or other endgame stuff by following what other told you to do.

Back to the GS subject, I have to admit that I don't know if I will play GS for other reason than cosmetics. Because it's a 2 hands weapon, it is slow and I don't really like slow gameplay even if I enjoy playing with the hammer on my rev just for the 5th skill.But anyway my question was more about the lore than a request to give rev GS.

@oOAvengerOo.6714 said:

@"Yannir.4132" said:Thank you for having a brain. That's a rare thing in the internet.

My opinion on GS for revenant, however, differs from yours. I don't want rev to ever get a greatsword. Just for personal reasons, I usually dislike massive swords, and I also think it doesn't fit the profession. My opinion on the matter is kind of irrelevant though. If they decide to give rev a GS next expansion, I just wont use it.

Alright then. Lorewise, Rytlock's sword is a 1-handed sword. He just doesn't use an off-hand. If you go even deeper into lore, the swords previous owner, Prince Rurik of Ascalon DID use the sword with a shield.Here:https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=prince+rurik&FORM=HDRSC2

@"Yannir.4132" said:

Alright then. Lorewise, Rytlock's sword is a 1-handed sword. He just doesn't use an off-hand. If you go even deeper into lore, the swords previous owner, Prince Rurik of Ascalon DID use the sword with a shield.Here:https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=prince+rurik&FORM=HDRSC2

Oh nice good to know. Thank you for this. I always like to discover new thing about GW lore. Because I didn't play to GW1 I have a lot to learn. But I hope the GW's books I just bought will satisfy my curiosity.

Simply put: rev is more of a caster than a physical fighter. They appear descended from ritualist, who fight by conjuring mists magic and spirits.

Unfortunately, this doesn't really translate well ingame since Staff is a melee weapon and we don't yet have a scepter. I believe the latter may be due to the class being rushed. However we did get Trident underwater, which only magical profession use. And lo and behold, we use it to cast spells.

The point being is that Greatsword doesn't really fit the more agile motif of a Revenant. Then again, neither does Hammer. The reasons might simply be to differentiate us from Warrior and Guardians, who both use Greatsword as their iconic weapon.

Look at mesmers, they have a ranged attack with their greatsword.

@"Kain Francois.4328" said:Simply put: rev is more of a caster than a physical fighter. They appear descended from ritualist, who fight by conjuring mists magic and spirits.

Unfortunately, this doesn't really translate well ingame since Staff is a melee weapon and we don't yet have a scepter. I believe the latter may be due to the class being rushed. However we did get Trident underwater, which only magical profession use. And lo and behold, we use it to cast spells.

The point being is that Greatsword doesn't really fit the more agile motif of a Revenant. Then again, neither does Hammer. The reasons might simply be to differentiate us from Warrior and Guardians, who both use Greatsword as their iconic weapon.

Ironically, the main Revenant is not only Rytlock [who is the last person one thinks of when one says "caster" in GW], but the main thing one sees him do is teleport around.

I honestly feel Anet really had no idea what the Revenant was supposed to be. He, visually and in-lore, seems to be a sort of Death Knight-style character with the power of the Mists, yet barely anything reflects that in their gameplay [i guess you can make the argument that changing Legends does this, but even Rytlock doesn't do it, he seems to only channel Glint].

@Ephemiel.5694 said:

I honestly feel Anet really had no idea what the Revenant was supposed to be

I believe they said something awhile ago that Revenant was supposed to be highly mobile in combat-only and slow outside of combat. This appears reflected through our axe #4 and sword #3.We were also supposed to be focused on high condi damage, and this was at a time before condi damage was even a thing.

@Kain Francois.4328 said:

@Ephemiel.5694 said:

I honestly feel Anet really had no idea what the Revenant was supposed to be

If the main focus is supposed to be conditions, why make so little actually focus on it? Isn't Mace their only condition weapon until Renegade's Short Bow?

@Kain Francois.4328 said:

@Ephemiel.5694 said:

I honestly feel Anet really had no idea what the Revenant was supposed to be

@oOAvengerOo.6714 said:I think adding greatsword to revenant's weapon set could be a good opportunity to buff DPS build since everybody seems to complain about how weak rev is.

While people may want a greatsword for whatever little roleplaying or aesthetic reasons they may have, it is not the way to fix Revenant's dps... In fact, adding any new weapon is not the way to accomplish this, so it's not just GS hate on my part.

Any new weapon added will face the same hurdle, which is the fact that Revenants don't have enough energy to use two weapon sets worth of skills + their legends. This is by design and it's pretty much the core of successful energy management that most new players don't get and sends them to the forums full of QQ about energy cost restrictions. In fact, Revenant was originally designed to not even be able to swap weapons, and although the devs added a swap mechanic at the last second, it still very much plays out this way due to the fact that your weapon and utility skills use the same resource (especially when it comes down to PvE dps.) Basically, every ten seconds, you only have enough energy to use one weapon set + your legend skills or both weapon sets and no legend skills.

What that means is that any new weapon added will have to actually be WORTH using (short bow, immatalkingtoyou). So, if they added a greatsword for power dps, it's 2-5 skills would have to be SO STRONG that using them would be a better use of energy than channeling your legend's upkeep skills (vengeful hammers and impossible odds.) They would also have to do more damage than just camping Sword and waiting for another precision strike would--which is a bigger hurdle than you think due to Vicious Lacerations and Sword's faster AA applying more Impossible Odds than a slow GS would all while costing very little energy to produce. Also, by adding a 2nd weapon's skillset into your rotation, you are basically FORCING yourself to take Charged Mists in Invocation to get it to work with your rotation... So now, the skills on that Greatsword ALSO need to justify building an extra 20% crit worth of precision (assuming it's a power weapon.)

When you break revenant dps down to it's core it's about how to BEST convert 100 potential energy into damage--which usually involves ~~3/4th of that being allocated to your upkeep skill (except when playing Condi Renegade with Kalla.) So any new weapon would need to be able to justify its usage into that formula, which is not easy to do without just making it broken OP.

Idk if anyone noticed this, but there is one moment in this game where you see a Revenant with a GSOn the instance in PoF that Rytlock gives you his sword (before the final battle) he equips on GS before going away..

I wouldn't mind seeing it, but I think Revenant is fine as ifI would prefer a good ranged weapon that is not condi based (and power rev back)New Elite for Rev with Long Bow and Eir as the Legend xD

@narcx.3570 said:

While people may want a greatsword for whatever little roleplaying or aesthetic reasons they may have, it is not the way to fix Revenant's dps... In fact, adding any new weapon is not the way to accomplish this, so it's not just GS hate on my part.

Any new weapon added will face the same hurdle, which is the fact that Revenants don't have enough energy to use two weapon sets worth of skills + their legends. This is by design and it's pretty much the core of successful energy management that most new players don't get and sends them to the forums full of QQ about energy cost restrictions. In fact, Revenant was originally designed to not even be able to swap weapons, and although the devs added a swap mechanic at the last second, it still very much plays out this way due to the fact that your weapon and utility skills use the same resource (especially when it comes down to PvE dps.) Basically, every ten seconds, you only have enough energy to use one weapon set + your legend skills or both weapon sets and no legend skills.

What that means is that any new weapon added will have to actually be WORTH using (short bow, immatalkingtoyou). So, if they added a greatsword for power dps, it's 2-5 skills would have to be SO STRONG that using them would be a better use of energy than channeling your legend's upkeep skills (vengeful hammers and impossible odds.) They would also have to do more damage than just camping Sword and waiting for another precision strike would--which is a bigger hurdle than you think due to Vicious Lacerations and Sword's faster AA applying more Impossible Odds than a slow GS would all while costing very little energy to produce. Also, by adding a 2nd weapon's skillset into your rotation, you are basically FORCING yourself to take Charged Mists in Invocation to get it to work with your rotation... So now, the skills on that Greatsword ALSO need to justify building an extra 20% crit worth of precision (assuming it's a power weapon.)

When you break revenant dps down to it's core it's about how to BEST convert 100 potential energy into damage--which usually involves ~~3/4th of that being allocated to your upkeep skill (except when playing Condi Renegade with Kalla.) So any new weapon would need to be able to justify its usage into that formula, which is not easy to do without just making it broken OP.

Wow ok I'm glad you share this with us. It seems you know what you are talking about. Lately I played with Kalla and Malix in open world doing map completion. To be honest I find the shortbow's skills a bit weird and not very easy to get the best of them (and it was just on low level mobs). I guess I will go back to power rev with Glint/Jalis for open world and think about what I will run for WvW.

@mPascoal.4258 said:Idk if anyone noticed this, but there is one moment in this game where you see a Revenant with a GSOn the instance in PoF that Rytlock gives you his sword (before the final battle) he equips on GS before going away..

I wouldn't mind seeing it, but I think Revenant is fine as ifI would prefer a good ranged weapon that is not condi based (and power rev back)New Elite for Rev with Long Bow and Eir as the Legend xD

Oh Yeah!!!! It could be awesome !!!

@"Kain Francois.4328" said:Simply put: rev is more of a caster than a physical fighter. They appear descended from ritualist, who fight by conjuring mists magic and spirits.

Unfortunately, this doesn't really translate well ingame since Staff is a melee weapon and we don't yet have a scepter. I believe the latter may be due to the class being rushed. However we did get Trident underwater, which only magical profession use. And lo and behold, we use it to cast spells.

The point being is that Greatsword doesn't really fit the more agile motif of a Revenant. Then again, neither does Hammer. The reasons might simply be to differentiate us from Warrior and Guardians, who both use Greatsword as their iconic weapon.

Revs, like Guardians, are amalgamated classes that evolved from more ridged designs from GW1. Most of Ritualist is actually rolled up in Engineer.... Turrets/Gyros, Kits, Elixirs, are based of Binding Spirits, Spirit weapons, and Ashes/Urns respectively. That said, Revs are a Martial Class based on the Heavy armor they use. While its not immediately obvious, the classes are divided up in a matrix of Solider/Adventurer/Scholar by Martial/Utility/Tricksters leans. All heavies have a baseline lean toward martial builds.... usually very straight forward, with an emphasis on weapon choices. Utility leans towards their class design having some type of synergy that naturally works with groups. Tricksters rely heavily on their class mechanics to overwhelm or outplay opponents, tend to also be the most vulnerable if you can counter the mechanics directly.

This isn't nearly as clean cut as it sounds, but it does a lot to explain how the classes were supposed to fit into things. Heavy was missing this third type or a long time, so Rev getting placed in as trickster type seems awkward at first. But when applied to Thief and Mesmer, the rest of the matrix lines up pretty well. In concept, Rev is meant to be highly adaptable and relies heavily on its class mechanic to make this work. So while you might not think it shares a lot with those 2 classes, when you start looking at strategy, the similarities start to become more obvious.

Where Rev suffers a lot is in its speed of play and inability to easily displace itself. But when you look at the its theme and class mechanics, both of those should actually be stronger traits of its design; and if they were true, Rev power plays would be incredible when executed.

As for the topic of Great Sword, the answer was obvious before Balthazar; and is now inexcusable having seen it in action. Rather then being a Ranged projectile weapon, it becomes a displaced melee weapon. A while back there was a game called Blade Kitten. A Mechanically OK, 2D combat platformer, with a B-Grade story, and "almost" camp worthy voice acting. But the gimmick for the game the protagonist's floating sword that flies out and attacks on command. On a scale of 1-10 I would place this at a 6 for design idea: with Yondu's Arrow ranking as "Beast mode" for comparison. This could fill easily fill the gap for a trifecta of mid-range weapon, mobility tool, and a proper 5-target cleave.

On top of this, I already have a few ideas for an Espec theme based on Weapon kits.... just need to find the right Hero to base it on. But I'm not even sure its worth discussing, considering Anet tends to go its own route with these things.

Maybe the next expansion:Elite Spec: OracleChannel: The Seer (from GW1 Prophecies)Weapon: Great Sword (Range)

• might be cool to have alien themed spec.

Hello, newbie here.

@Kain Francois.4328 said:Simply put: rev is more of a caster than a physical fighter. They appear descended from ritualist, who fight by conjuring mists magic and spirits.

Unfortunately, this doesn't really translate well ingame since Staff is a melee weapon and we don't yet have a scepter. I believe the latter may be due to the class being rushed. However we did get Trident underwater, which only magical profession use. And lo and behold, we use it to cast spells.

The point being is that Greatsword doesn't really fit the more agile motif of a Revenant. Then again, neither does Hammer. The reasons might simply be to differentiate us from Warrior and Guardians, who both use Greatsword as their iconic weapon.

On the opposite, I've always thought Revenant as a warrior with some magic on it. So I still think GS as melee weapon is still in play as well as Hammer. Being able to use staff for melee combat is a bit weird for me but it works well in crowd control, so why not? It feels like playing a monk with wizard staff. Hammer being a range weapon is also weird for me who prefer traditional style over something new. I haven't got to play short bow yet so I don't know the difference between short and long bow.

@Kain Francois.4328 said:...They appear descended from ritualist, who fight by conjuring mists magic and spirits....

If this is the case then Revenant might be better suited with medium armor with swords. I picture it as a Shaman who calls upon spirits to possess them in order to use spirit's power. Shaman doesn't use heavy armor, do they?

Overall, I enjoy the game. It's just different with the other MMORPG I've played so far.

A middle range greatsword gameplay :open_mouth: something like mist waves or pulses ... yeah I would definitely see that hehehe. The earthshaker Kappa

Rytlock uses the Fiery dragon sword, which is a single sword skin. You can get it by doing enough achievements in GW1.

Here is what it looks like two handed:

Revenant won't wield Greatsword because Warrior and Guardian already do. As you see, this pattern works for all classes when it comes to E-Specs etc.Axe: Necro, Mesmer, (- no Ele)Warhorn: Necro, Ele, (- no Mesmer)Rifle: Thief, Engineer, (- no Ranger)Torch: Necro, Mesmer (- no Ele) ||| Guardian, Warrior (- no Revenant)Longbow: Guardian, Warrior (- no Revenant)

and so on and so on..They want to make Revenant feel like a Soldier-Assassin also using a lot of magic. It's basically all about magic. We already have a throwing hammer. I personally like the fact that Revenant as a heavy class can't wield greatswords. It gives that weird feeling, but I like it.I'd love Revenant to be able to use one of these: Warhorn, Dagger, Torch, Scepter - These really have some potential while thinking about The Mists and that shaman - ritualist theme.