"Fixing" the Meta (Ranked)

OK. So this is a bit out there, but...

By FIX, I don't mean "correcting" ... I mean making it static. Strip away the need to balance so many elites/builds, and create templates for each role needed in conquest. 1 Roamer, 1 duelists, 1 support, and 2 damage.

Let's take advantage of the one benefit of the terrible decision to do a solo-q ranked play in the conquest-only game mode -- and instead of letting you choose all sorts of builds, you choose your "role" and you're given a set "class" (one of 5) for your team. Most people in ranked just "netdeck" anyways (and flame anyone who doesn't).

If you truly want a real competitive mode, this is the way to do it. Every match is a mirror match with the same 5 archetypes (based loosely on current profs / meta builds -- which I'd say is Thief, FB, Scourge, Mirage, and SB). I think you could have SOME choice (with utilities) but that's it.

The Mist Challengers tourney showed that you basically HAD to have a FB, Scourge, Mesmer, Thief, and then one good team fighter or duelist. So why not just ensure that for every match, with controlled variables?? Let's make it a true even playing field, completely separate from PvE.

Also, make downed state abilities the same across the board.

Leave unranked for people who just want to have fun playing how they want with whatever prof / build they want.

Because the game was more interesting back when you could potentially be facing any class with many build options. It was fun and it was competitive.

This balance existed up to approx. mid-2015.

The expansions' power-creep killed it and made the meta builds so much better than everything else, it's more like what you describe now. I can't speak for everyone, but I find it immensely boring to be playing and facing the same builds all the time.

META = Most Effective Tactic Available.

When you think about what META means and then understand why certain builds are the most effective for their respective profession you'll understand why the META changes and why you need to change with it. With that said, not everyone plays the same nor has the same play style. What works for one person may not work for another.

Think about the build you are using now. Does it have mobility, condition cleanse, stability, a stun breaker, and a damage burst? Does it have combo fields that you can quickly use a combo finisher with? Does your build have any type of group support? Does your build have an invul that can be used to stomp or hard rez? Do you have CC to prevent stomps or a hard rez? What does your build offer to the group?

Think about the META builds, do they have any of the above? You don't have to run what is considered to be the most effective tactic available but you also can't throw together a bunch of random traits and utilities then expect them to work.

@"Crius.5487" said:META = Most Effective Tactic Available.

When you think about what META means and then understand why certain builds are the most effective for their respective profession you'll understand why the META changes and why you need to change with it. With that said, not everyone plays the same nor has the same play style. What works for one person may not work for another.

Think about the build you are using now. Does it have mobility, condition cleanse, stability, a stun breaker, and a damage burst? Does it have combo fields that you can quickly use a combo finisher with? Does your build have any type of group support? Does your build have an invul that can be used to stomp or hard rez? Do you have CC to prevent stomps or a hard rez? What does your build offer to the group?

Think about the META builds, do they have any of the above? You don't have to run what is considered to be the most effective tactic available but you also can't throw together a bunch of random traits and utilities then expect them to work.

But my point is that Conquest doesn't change. All the maps require pretty much the same archetypes/comps. So the Meta will always be the same, just different classes will fill those meta roles (because power creep and poor balancing). So instead of a swinging pendulum due to an MMO designed almost exclusively around PvE (just imagine a couple more expansions)... it might be time to just scrap the professions and their elites and create more static archetypes that are much easier to balance, which won't shift too much. This make each game more even. It makes mastering a "profession" less punishing when its pushed out of the meta.

Once upon a time I thought the game should be reworked to how you suggest. Professions would have a selection of pre-made builds to choose from. Limiting the interworking of skills and traits would allow much more effective and targeted balance while providing, through improved balance, a greater diversity of play at the cost of raw number of options.

But then I came to grips with the fact that this is not that game, not that kind of game, and part of the fun can be discovering what does and does not work. There is a balance between wanting the game to be better, and accepting the game for what it is. Focusing too much on what you want it to be, but can never be, is only going to lead to frustration and unenjoyment. There is already enough of that on its own without layering on unrealistic expectations.

@"Allarius.5670" said:Once upon a time I thought the game should be reworked to how you suggest. Professions would have a selection of pre-made builds to choose from. Limiting the interworking of skills and traits would allow much more effective and targeted balance while providing, through improved balance, a greater diversity of play at the cost of raw number of options.

But then I came to grips with the fact that this is not that game, not that kind of game, and part of the fun can be discovering what does and does not work. There is a balance between wanting the game to be better, and accepting the game for what it is. Focusing too much on what you want it to be, but can never be, is only going to lead to frustration and unenjoyment. There is already enough of that on its own without layering on unrealistic expectations.

Oh I agree. This post was more of just a "What If..." musing more than anything else. I think they have 2 people on the PvP team. Obviously there aren't going to be sweeping changes any time soon (read: for the rest of the game's life). But I think it would have been an interesting way to go for Ranked / Team-q. We all know what works in Conquest... might as well make professions JUST for the game mode with limited choices to make balance easy as possible and competition as even and fair and fun as possible.

PvE and Unranked can have all the unbalance, shifting metas that comes with awesome profession flavor.

@coro.3176 said:Because the game was more interesting back when you could potentially be facing any class with many build options. It was fun and it was competitive.

This balance existed up to approx. mid-2015.

The expansions' power-creep killed it and made the meta builds so much better than everything else, it's more like what you describe now. I can't speak for everyone, but I find it immensely boring to be playing and facing the same builds all the time.

Yes. Because no one complained about the omnipresence of zoo meta necros, rangers, and turret engineers and other builds like Bunkerguardian and hambow.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@coro.3176 said:Because the game was more interesting back when you could potentially be facing any class with many build options. It was fun and it was competitive.

This balance existed up to approx. mid-2015.

The expansions' power-creep killed it and made the meta builds so much better than everything else, it's more like what you describe now. I can't speak for everyone, but I find it immensely boring to be playing and facing the same builds all the time.

Oh, we did and it did suck from time to time, but I'd take that meta back in a heartbeat compared to what we've got now.

I grant you that those builds were annoying (except ranger 'cause that was never a thing until the expansions). It's just that they weren't SO MUCH better than the other options that you're putting your team at a massive disadvantage by playing an off-meta spec.

I'm saying the current meta specs are a solid 50% or more better than the other options, and that just makes for a boring game. At their peak, none of the specs you mentioned were SO good that it wasn't worth playing anything else. They were at best, 10-20% better than the next best build.

Then HoT (and later, PoF) happened which killed all build diversity since.