Balance patch suggestions

Sadly i can not test numbers so this is what you still have to do. These changes only show up ways to go. The goal is to reduce damage and sustain aswell as cc and stability uptime, conditionspam and boonspam and lastly passive gameplay and skillspam. This will obviously not be a complete solution since i only invest like 2 hours while the balance TEAM has 3 months for changes and gets paid. This is mainly from pvp perspective and should be considered to be split between pvp and pve.

1. MesmerMesmer recently was slightly nerfed but is still over the top. So i would like to see changes:

-Bountiful Disillusionment icd 5 seconds since the boon and espacially stability spam is too high rewarding here.-Portal needs a change in range like 1200 range cap or needs to be an elite with a cd increase by about 10 seconds. Portal always makes mesmer needed in the current state.-Phantasms need a damage reduction across the board by about 15-20% since they hit too hard and often are gained by skills which already have another use like the shieldblock.-Mirage should only be able to dodge while stunned if elusive mind is equipped at the cost of exhaustion. Otherwise you can not punish mirage for facetanking stuns. Dodging while stomping or ressing is already powerful enough and the spec has more to offer than just dodges while beeing stunned.-Shatterskills in general should not have a casttime but should not work while stunned.-Sword 2 needs a slight cd increase by about 7 seconds to make mesmer more vulnerable in general

2. ThiefThe high mobility and decent damage on top of access to stealth make this class really powerful. Changes here should mainly affect steal as it is too strong and can be used quite frequently in some builds:

-Swindlers Equilibrium needs to recharge steal cooldown not by 100 but only by 50% to make it less powerful.-Steal itself should not work while stunned or stealthed and needs a slight casttime and animation. I'd suggest like 1/4-1/2 casttime.-Aside from that i think thief should give up slightly damage to make up for the incredible mobility. Since other specs are nerfed in sustain it is also fine to lower the damage a bit. I think 10% is a fine reduction.

3. NecroSlow and not many defensive options this profession needs to have aoe damag output but at the moment this is out of hands. To improve core necro a rework of coreshroud is also needed and i will not invest that much time. So here are some ideas:

-Sand savant currently breaks everything covering nodes and large areas in conditions. It is needed for supportive builds tho. If sand savant is equipped, shade skills do not have the conditioninflicting affects normal shades have. This way support can still be a thing and conditionspam is limited.-Barrier from desertshroud should not be limited to the scourge only and worke like sand cascade. This makes support variants better.-Barrier on f3 and f5 needs to be instant on activation, even tho the damage has a delay. Therefore it should not work while stunned or knocked down.-Spinal shivers should be reworked to something not passively proccing damage.-Spiteful spirit should have a low casstime after entering shroud. I think 1/4-1/2 should be fine.Aside from that i think necro is in a decent spot with no passive damage, not too much sustain and less conditionspam after the suggested changes.

4. GuardianThe guardian specs fill different roles which is kinda nice. Dragonhunter is maybe a bit too weak at the moment but i will focus on the other 2 specs here:

-Glacial heart is passive damage and needs to be reworked.-Focus 5, judges intervention and smite conditions deal too much damage. Reduce the damage by 50% and lower the cooldowns by 20%-25% to make it more consistent and a bit less bursty.-Firebrand heal and stability output should be nerfed by about 30% to bring it more in line with tempest and scrapper as support specs.

5. RevenantRevenant is in a decent spot right now espacially with the nerfs to other specs. Not much changes needed in my opinion:

-Deathstrike could get a damage reduction by about 10% aside from that i think this spec is fine.

6. EngineerIn terms of damage and sustain i think this profession is also decently balanced. So changes should focus on:

-Less boonspam espacially stability uptime.-Less cc espacially all the knockdowns and knockbacks are too frequent and too long. This should see some reduction.

7. WarriorWarrior is also pretty balanced and shares the 1v1 role with druid and mesmer. I would not change much here but with the nerfs to other professions i would like to see:

-Either reduce damage output by about 10%.-Or reduce sustain by about 10% with reducing heals from healingsignet, rousing resilience and adrenal health.

8. RangerRanger has some major problems since the wrong nerfs were made. I think the problem is not the healing in avatar but the stealth and the massive condi clear on top of the immobilise. Changes would be following:

-Reduce cooldown of avatar to what it used to be.-Reduce stealth duration from 3s to 1s or move it on entering avatar instead of leaving, this would help to postion again and heal up or ress.-Reduce conditions cleared to 5 on entering avatar.-Pets should scale with the ranger's stats. Right now pets are too strong on support specs and too weak on damage specs.Healing scaling in avatar should be buffed by about 70% to make it a viable support aswell.

9.ElementalistElementalist is not too far away from other professions, espacially with firebrand support reduced and other 1v1 builds nerfed. Changes:

-Scepter should get a damage buff by about 50%.-Scepterskills should not be instant and all get a casttime same for the arcane spells so macro binding is less rewarding and damage is still fine.

Since i only main one profession i appreciate feedback but only serious posts that see the whole game and not only nerf others buff my main. A healthy game base would be much better to adjust.

@"Patrick.2987" said:

2. ThiefThe high mobility and decent damage on top of access to stealth make this class really powerful. Changes here should mainly affect steal as it is too strong and can be used quite frequently in some builds:

-Swindlers Equilibrium needs to recharge steal cooldown not by 100 but only by 50% to make it less powerful.-Steal itself should not work while stunned or stealthed and needs a slight cast time and animation. I'd suggest like 1/4-1/2 cast time.-Aside from that i think thief should give up slightly damage to make up for the incredible mobility. Since other specs are nerfed in sustain it is also fine to lower the damage a bit. I think 10% is a fine reduction.

NO. First steal is also used defensively. If traited right it can save you from a spike with the interrupt. It needs to stay instacast. Also thieves in PVP are single target types.The should be able to 1 v 1 anyone. It was the original design. Necros can explode a group of 5 or more and hold a point.

Mobility is what makes the thief good at 1 v 1, it is not a reason or justification to reduce their SINGLE TARGET damage. Look here at this picture. The core lore and design gives evidence to my claim

If you want to nerf core guard then nerfs it's skills, not the ones shared by core guard and dh...

And steal having a cast time word utterly destroy daredevil. And nerfing rev? Really? Your changes if anything only make holo/sb stronger. Why would you ever nerf underperforming specs?

There are 7 specs that need to be nerfed right now and they are spellbreaker, holo, scourge, fb, mirage, chrono, and core thief. If your nerfs target skills used by b tier builds then they aren't the right nerfs.

You are correct these specs need a nerf more than others but if chrono, mirage etc will be nerfed alot, other specs might be too strong. Revenant for example right now is pretty good just not meta because others do better. With nerfs to thief, scourge, mes etc. they might get to strong pretty fast. The 'nerf' to coreguard just makes it more sustained dmg and less bursty although not alot. Just to treat all professions the same.

@Patrick.2987 said:-Steal itself should not work while stunned or stealthed and needs a slight casttime and animation. I'd suggest like 1/4-1/2 casttime.

Lost interest.

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Patrick.2987 said:-Steal itself should not work while stunned or stealthed and needs a slight casttime and animation. I'd suggest like 1/4-1/2 casttime.

You can suggest a better method to make steal dodgeable.

@Patrick.2987 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Patrick.2987 said:-Steal itself should not work while stunned or stealthed and needs a slight casttime and animation. I'd suggest like 1/4-1/2 casttime.

I'm not even going to argue on that foundation.

Steal does not need to have a telegraph. You can block it, use stability, stealth, lay AOEs, traps or wells under your feet to make it unreasonable for a thief to steal to you, or use a skill that stunbreaks immediately upon being stolen to (And in the case when you cannot block a steal but see the thief, basi venom is obvious.) . If you give steal a cast time you break mainhand dagger, offhand pisol, sword, offhand dagger, bound, Staff and several traits that rely on the daze steal provides with trickery. Thematically, theft also should not be something you can see coming.

Please play a class at least a little before suggesting nerfs to it that break the majority of its weapon sets/its mechanic.

Couple of other things I noticed:

@Patrick.2987 said:-Portal needs a change in range like 1200 range cap or needs to be an elite with a cd increase by about 10 seconds. Portal always makes mesmer needed in the current state.

Unnecessary. Mesmer is overperforming because of strong synergies held by mirage and chrono. That is no excuse to reduce their portal entre/exunt to this extent.

3. Necro-Sand savant currently breaks everything covering nodes and large areas in conditions.

Agreed.

-Spinal shivers should be reworked to something not passively proccing damage.-Spiteful spirit should have a low casstime after entering shroud. I think 1/4-1/2 should be fine.

Disagreed. This surprise burst is what helps offset the slowness of the class. The latter is, funnily enough, good against a thief that has just stolen to you.

4. GuardianThe guardian specs fill different roles which is kinda nice. Dragonhunter is maybe a bit too weak at the moment but i will focus on the other 2 specs here:

-Glacial heart is passive damage and needs to be reworked.-Focus 5, judges intervention and smite conditions deal too much damage. Reduce the damage by 50% and lower the cooldowns by 20%-25% to make it more consistent and a bit less bursty.

Disagreed, for the above reason. slow classes need to do sudden, high damage to classes close to them or they will be bullied by more mobile classes.

5. RevenantRevenant is in a decent spot right now espacially with the nerfs to other specs. Not much changes needed in my opinion:

Its not.

-Deathstrike could get a damage reduction by about 10% aside from that i think this spec is fine.

unnecessary. you can dodge the second hit of deathstrike or simply move out of the way. It has a 130 range. If you get put in a position where you are chilled, immobed, with no endurance or escape to avoid that skill, you deserve the damage.

7. WarriorWarrior is also pretty balanced and shares the 1v1 role with druid and mesmer. I would not change much here but with the nerfs to other professions i would like to see:

-Either reduce damage output by about 10%.-Or reduce sustain by about 10% with reducing heals from healingsignet, rousing resilience and adrenal health.

Agreed, but only in tandem with mesmer nerfs, and only one or the other. not both.

Elementalist ChangesRanger Changes

I don't know. I dont play scepter ele that much, but I'll let someone else chime in on that.I don't play druid ranger that much either.

Your suggestions aren't the worst I've seen, but they are very primitive as others have pointed out.

It's the same problem that Anet has had with the game since the start. They are hell-bent on keeping some classes without mobility (some have no mobility AND no bunker ability), yet they allow everyone to spec for the same damage. This makes it impossible to balance because they refuse to address inherent imbalances in the professions in these key areas while making sure damage is equal. You can't give some classes like mesmers the ability to spec for bunker, mobility, stealth, most AI, boons, condis, burst, boon rip, low cooldowns without resource management, low cast times, etc...without allowing other classes to do the same.

The cure for the imbalances in the game isn't the merry-go-round of "shaves" to one trait or damage. It's allowing all the classes to either have the same potential to spec for any role needed (or cut out the ability for some classes to do so).

@"Patrick.2987" said:Sadly i can not test numbers so this is what you still have to do. These changes only show up ways to go. The goal is to reduce damage and sustain aswell as cc and stability uptime, conditionspam and boonspam and lastly passive gameplay and skillspam. This will obviously not be a complete solution since i only invest like 2 hours while the balance TEAM has 3 months for changes and gets paid. This is mainly from pvp perspective and should be considered to be split between pvp and pve.

4. GuardianThe guardian specs fill different roles which is kinda nice. Dragonhunter is maybe a bit too weak at the moment but i will focus on the other 2 specs here:

-Glacial heart is passive damage and needs to be reworked.-Focus 5, judges intervention and smite conditions deal too much damage. Reduce the damage by 50% and lower the cooldowns by 20%-25% to make it more consistent and a bit less bursty.

You probably talking about core radiance guard here....dont think its a problem, if anything it actually needs some buffs to compete with Warrior, Engi, Mesmer and etc...but reducing the cooldowns wouldnt be a good idea, even at the cost of damage, I believe that would actually be huge buff to guard.

7. WarriorWarrior is also pretty balanced and shares the 1v1 role with druid and mesmer. I would not change much here but with the nerfs to other professions i would like to see:

-Either reduce damage output by about 10%.-Or reduce sustain by about 10% with reducing heals from healingsignet, rousing resilience and adrenal health.

Dont think warrior is balanced in any way shape or form, if anything still is as braindead as it used to be since hambow days...still getting carried by passives and stances...would like to see a rework on warrior, its not fun to fight something that is allmost as bunkerish as a FB but that can ruin your day with a single well placed greatsword 3#...need to lower its damage, or sustain or mobility...having all 3 is just not cool lol

Stopped reading after your Mesmer changes.

@Patrick.2987 said:ThiefThe high mobility and decent damage on top of access to stealth make this class really powerful. Changes here should mainly affect steal as it is too strong and can be used quite frequently in some builds:-Swindlers Equilibrium needs to recharge steal cooldown not by 100 but only by 50% to make it less powerful.-Steal itself should not work while stunned or stealthed and needs a slight casttime and animation. I'd suggest like 1/4-1/2 casttime.-Aside from that i think thief should give up slightly damage to make up for the incredible mobility. Since other specs are nerfed in sustain it is also fine to lower the damage a bit. I think 10% is a fine reduction.

You're delusional.

@"Patrick.2987" said:

6. EngineerIn terms of damage and sustain i think this profession is also decently balanced. So changes should focus on:

-Less boonspam espacially stability uptime.-Less cc espacially all the knockdowns and knockbacks are too frequent and too long. This should see some reduction.

You forgot to mention buffing core engineer and his kits.

Your suggestions to engineer and thief alone make this thread not worthwhile paying attention to. You complain about engi's stability uptime yet you ignore the fact that they have 1 skill that gives stability that also requires you to hit an enemy to even get the stab and you have to do it in melee range with a huge ass telegraph. Tell me how this is too powerful.

As far as thief, your solution to you not liking getting ganked is neutering steal and sending s/d back into the depths of uselessness. Steal does not need a cast time, I'm fine with it being unusable while cced as there are many skills in game that should be that way too, but asking for a cast time and it being unusable while in stealth basically destroys the entire thief class. Unless you make stealth a full invuln thief wouldn't even be worth playing anymore. Not only would you do that but you'd even add insult to injury and nerf thief even more? (SE could use a change I agree) Nerfing the damage after all that other stuff destroys thief even further. Your suggestions reveal what little mechanical knowledge you have of thief and you should probably refrain from suggesting changes for them in the future.

@"Patrick.2987" said:

1. Mesmer-Bountiful Disillusionment icd 5 seconds since the boon and espacially stability spam is too high rewarding here.-Portal needs a change in range like 1200 range cap or needs to be an elite with a cd increase by about 10 seconds. Portal always makes mesmer needed in the current state.-Phantasms need a damage reduction across the board by about 15-20% since they hit too hard and often are gained by skills which already have another use like the shieldblock.-Mirage should only be able to dodge while stunned if elusive mind is equipped at the cost of exhaustion. Otherwise you can not punish mirage for facetanking stuns. Dodging while stomping or ressing is already powerful enough and the spec has more to offer than just dodges while beeing stunned.-Shatterskills in general should not have a casttime but should not work while stunned.-Sword 2 needs a slight cd increase by about 7 seconds to make mesmer more vulnerable in general

This is way too much. I can get on board with Bountiful Disillusionment ICD and generally cutting down Phantasm damage but this other stuff isn't needed. I don't want to see mesmer nerfed to oblivion. I really hope nobody at ANet is even considering nerfing Portal, it's basically a class mechanic. It's what keeps mesmer afloat in any meta, and that's quite alright IMO. I play mesmer very rarely btw. I never really liked it.

2. Thief-Swindlers Equilibrium needs to recharge steal cooldown not by 100 but only by 50% to make it less powerful.-Steal itself should not work while stunned or stealthed and needs a slight casttime and animation. I'd suggest like 1/4-1/2 casttime.-Aside from that i think thief should give up slightly damage to make up for the incredible mobility. Since other specs are nerfed in sustain it is also fine to lower the damage a bit. I think 10% is a fine reduction.

Just a hard no on all of this. I don't think you understand how thief works. Their damage is already slightly too low.What I would however nerf is their condi build. That could be as simple as giving Spider Venom a 1 second ICD between applications. Would make their Poison less spiky, but wouldn't effect condi thief DPS in PvE, as it would just mean a slight ramp-up period.

3. Necro

-Sand savant currently breaks everything covering nodes and large areas in conditions. It is needed for supportive builds tho. If sand savant is equipped, shade skills do not have the conditioninflicting affects normal shades have. This way support can still be a thing and conditionspam is limited.-Barrier from desertshroud should not be limited to the scourge only and worke like sand cascade. This makes support variants better.-Barrier on f3 and f5 needs to be instant on activation, even tho the damage has a delay. Therefore it should not work while stunned or knocked down.-Spinal shivers should be reworked to something not passively proccing damage.-Spiteful spirit should have a low casstime after entering shroud. I think 1/4-1/2 should be fine.

I think Sand Savant is the problem. I actually approve of your solution. Traiting Sand Savant would get rid of the conditions on Summon Sand Shade and replace them with Boons.I don't understand your third point. It's contradicting itself.Rest of it I can get on board with.

4. Guardian-Glacial heart is passive damage and needs to be reworked.-Focus 5, judges intervention and smite conditions deal too much damage. Reduce the damage by 50% and lower the cooldowns by 20%-25% to make it more consistent and a bit less bursty.-Firebrand heal and stability output should be nerfed by about 30% to bring it more in line with tempest and scrapper as support specs.

Yeah, Glacial Heart really should proc only on Mighty Blow. That would make it an active effect.Firebrand is in a really good spot atm. No changes are needed. It has clear counters, and it can't kill anything. It's the other supports that need the be brought up to compete with Fb. Even when support Tempest was at its prime, I never thought it was a particularly good support.How does JI do too much damage? It crits for like 1k on Radiant Hammer... That's nothing. The other 2 might be valid nerfs.

5. Revenant

-Deathstrike could get a damage reduction by about 10% aside from that i think this spec is fine.

Rev has fundamental problems that need to be addressed. In all game modes. Especially Renegade.This conversation deserves a thread of its own though so I won't get into that here.

6. EngineerIn terms of damage and sustain i think this profession is also decently balanced. So changes should focus on:

-Less boonspam espacially stability uptime.-Less cc espacially all the knockdowns and knockbacks are too frequent and too long. This should see some reduction.

What? Are you seriously suggesting nerfing stab on engi? Scrapper just got decent stab uptime to actually be relevant and you want to take that away?If you avoid getting hit by Corona Burst from Holo, they basically have 0 stab.Don't suggest nerfs for the heck of it, or just to mention a profession. Engi has a pretty solid place. I wouldn't want ANet wasting their time on these suggestions.

7. WarriorWarrior is also pretty balanced and shares the 1v1 role with druid and mesmer. I would not change much here but with the nerfs to other professions i would like to see:

-Either reduce damage output by about 10%.-Or reduce sustain by about 10% with reducing heals from healingsignet, rousing resilience and adrenal health.

It's actually not. Spellbreaker still has too much damage. Mostly on FC and dagger 2.Rousing Resilience should be changed to be shorter and weaker but be AoE. 500 extra toughness for 4 seconds, and the heal should be spread out across the whole duration. 5 target AoE.I don't think nerfing warriors passive healing is a good idea. Other sustain? Sure.

8. RangerRanger has some major problems since the wrong nerfs were made. I think the problem is not the healing in avatar but the stealth and the massive condi clear on top of the immobilise. Changes would be following:

-Reduce cooldown of avatar to what it used to be.-Reduce stealth duration from 3s to 1s or move it on entering avatar instead of leaving, this would help to postion again and heal up or ress.-Reduce conditions cleared to 5 on entering avatar.-Pets should scale with the ranger's stats. Right now pets are too strong on support specs and too weak on damage specs.Healing scaling in avatar should be buffed by about 70% to make it a viable support aswell.

The 20 sec CD on CA is fine IMO. It's just the skills in CA aren't worth using anymore, other than the 5. So yeah, healing buffs would be nice.Sure, move the stealth to the beginning but don't nerf the duration to less than 2 seconds.I'd rather they change the cleansing to be pulsing in CA. So it wouldn't be a full clear right away but you wouldn't be as vulnerable to condi spikes while in it.Pet damage scaling has been in the wish list since launch in 2012. I don't think they deem this worth the massive effort it would be. It would basically be a rehaul and then some.

9.ElementalistElementalist is not too far away from other professions, espacially with firebrand support reduced and other 1v1 builds nerfed. Changes:

-Scepter should get a damage buff by about 50%.-Scepterskills should not be instant and all get a casttime same for the arcane spells so macro binding is less rewarding and damage is still fine.

This is not what ele needs at all.I wish they'd done the FA nerf in a way that wouldn't affect core ele, just Weaver. Core sacrifices defense in order to get high damage, Weaver gets the best of both.Like I said earlier, Firebrand is rather reigned in and what's needed is the buffing of other support specs. Which is why they should buff Tempest, mostly by reworking/buffing useless traits that it is filled with.

I agree with most of suggestions, although i'm not sure the problem will be that different if everything is toned down( actual balanced builds included).

Concerning scourge, i still believe that simply removing slowing down conditions from the build would solve most of issues. My point from solo queue is that people get rolled too easily sometimes simply because they cannot run away after 1 mistake, and get condi spammed to death. The build would still be efficient on damage, but would require coordination with other players ( 1 immobilize , scourge spams his aoe ).

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@"Patrick.2987" said:

6. EngineerIn terms of damage and sustain i think this profession is also decently balanced. So changes should focus on:

-Less boonspam espacially stability uptime.-Less cc espacially all the knockdowns and knockbacks are too frequent and too long. This should see some reduction.

Totally true but i am not much into this class and how to fix core here without buffing scrapper or holo.

@Ario.8964 said:Your suggestions to engineer and thief alone make this thread not worthwhile paying attention to. You complain about engi's stability uptime yet you ignore the fact that they have 1 skill that gives stability that also requires you to hit an enemy to even get the stab and you have to do it in melee range with a huge kitten telegraph. Tell me how this is too powerful.

As far as thief, your solution to you not liking getting ganked is neutering steal and sending s/d back into the depths of uselessness. Steal does not need a cast time, I'm fine with it being unusable while cced as there are many skills in game that should be that way too, but asking for a cast time and it being unusable while in stealth basically destroys the entire thief class. Unless you make stealth a full invuln thief wouldn't even be worth playing anymore. Not only would you do that but you'd even add insult to injury and nerf thief even more? (SE could use a change I agree) Nerfing the damage after all that other stuff destroys thief even further. Your suggestions reveal what little mechanical knowledge you have of thief and you should probably refrain from suggesting changes for them in the future.

I have only 1500 thief games so yeah i am not much into thief aswell and the suggestions might be not optimal. Steal not usuable in stealth is useless anyway as no one opens with steal. I just want to give players a chance to evade skills rather than random dodge or eat full damage and therefore instant damage needs to go. The stabilityuptime on engi is only too high on scrapper obviously. I am happy for other suggestions to make steal dodgeable like i said before. And it is not only thief, also all other professions should not have instant proc damage. As someone stated out earlier, slow professions relie on it is not totally true. Reaper has still one of the best aoe damage in game and does not need instaprocs, burstguard will still have good burst without glacial heart etc.

This is way too much. I can get on board with Bountiful Disillusionment ICD and generally cutting down Phantasm damage but this other stuff isn't needed. I don't want to see mesmer nerfed to oblivion. I really hope nobody at ANet is even considering nerfing Portal, it's basically a class mechanic. It's what keeps mesmer afloat in any meta, and that's quite alright IMO. I play mesmer very rarely btw. I never really liked it.

Exactly this is the point even this one utility makes it meta regardless and should be looked into. Always suggesting buffs to underused professions like rev and professions like firebrand are fine just has the same affect as leaving rev on it's current state and nerfing firebrand. Not considering renegade here obviously. Why do we need more powercreep when the same effect can be achieved with some simple nerfs?

@"Patrick.2987" said:

5. RevenantRevenant is in a decent spot right now espacially with the nerfs to other specs. Not much changes needed in my opinion:

yeah ... i knew that would come up .... the 1 and only skill wich does extremely good dps .....yu read that skill desciption... you have to land a second strike tom deal this kind of dmg ... so thats the downside of that skill...would be great if other classes also have some downside of their skills ...

@Patrick.2987 said:This is way too much. I can get on board with Bountiful Disillusionment ICD and generally cutting down Phantasm damage but this other stuff isn't needed. I don't want to see mesmer nerfed to oblivion. I really hope nobody at ANet is even considering nerfing Portal, it's basically a class mechanic. It's what keeps mesmer afloat in any meta, and that's quite alright IMO. I play mesmer very rarely btw. I never really liked it.

Exactly this is the point even this one utility makes it meta regardless and should be looked into. Always suggesting buffs to underused professions like rev and professions like firebrand are fine just has the same affect as leaving rev on it's current state and nerfing firebrand. Not considering renegade here obviously. Why do we need more powercreep when the same effect can be achieved with some simple nerfs?

My question is why is it bad that portal keeps mesmer viable?And sometimes powercreep is better than nerfs. Nerfing Firebrand doesn't make the other support options better like they would need to be. IMO nerfing Firebrand any further will leave the meta without support options. Tempest, Ventari rev, Medic Scrapper or Druid aren't good enough.

@Patrick.2987 said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Patrick.2987 said:

6. EngineerIn terms of damage and sustain i think this profession is also decently balanced. So changes should focus on:

-Less boonspam espacially stability uptime.-Less cc espacially all the knockdowns and knockbacks are too frequent and too long. This should see some reduction.

As someone who is, what I'd recommend is to not buff the traits, but instead buff the kits. That's the best way to buff core engineer. This won't buff the Holosmith because, let's be honest when was the last time you've seen a Holosmith use kits?

@Yannir.4132 said:

@Patrick.2987 said:This is way too much. I can get on board with Bountiful Disillusionment ICD and generally cutting down Phantasm damage but this other stuff isn't needed. I don't want to see mesmer nerfed to oblivion. I really hope nobody at ANet is even considering nerfing Portal, it's basically a class mechanic. It's what keeps mesmer afloat in any meta, and that's quite alright IMO. I play mesmer very rarely btw. I never really liked it.

Exactly this is the point even this one utility makes it meta regardless and should be looked into. Always suggesting buffs to underused professions like rev and professions like firebrand are fine just has the same affect as leaving rev on it's current state and nerfing firebrand. Not considering renegade here obviously. Why do we need more powercreep when the same effect can be achieved with some simple nerfs?

They were viable before pof so the new specs just need to be brought back to that level what i am trying to suggest here. And a single skill making a class meta is too strong in my opinion. Of course you would not suggest nerfing mesmer into oblivion and keep portal as it is so it does portal only.

@Patrick.2987 said:

@Ario.8964 said:Your suggestions to engineer and thief alone make this thread not worthwhile paying attention to. You complain about engi's stability uptime yet you ignore the fact that they have 1 skill that gives stability that also requires you to hit an enemy to even get the stab and you have to do it in melee range with a huge kitten telegraph. Tell me how this is too powerful.

As far as thief, your solution to you not liking getting ganked is neutering steal and sending s/d back into the depths of uselessness. Steal does not need a cast time, I'm fine with it being unusable while cced as there are many skills in game that should be that way too, but asking for a cast time and it being unusable while in stealth basically destroys the entire thief class. Unless you make stealth a full invuln thief wouldn't even be worth playing anymore. Not only would you do that but you'd even add insult to injury and nerf thief even more? (SE could use a change I agree) Nerfing the damage after all that other stuff destroys thief even further. Your suggestions reveal what little mechanical knowledge you have of thief and you should probably refrain from suggesting changes for them in the future.

Silly me, forgot scrapper... rip the engi main. I think with that it's more a problem of how they have distributed stability on scrapper. You either have none if you run no gyros (or 1 with hammer trait and hammer equipped) or you have a metric fuck ton of stab if you run almost all gyros. This should be able to be solved by redesigning some traits to lessen the stab uptime on gyros but also provide some stab to the rest of the class so it doesn't get ping ponged by cc.

As for the thief stuff, if a thief isn't opening with steal in a gank then they are doing something wrong. The most common combo you will see from a thief is steal+backstab from stealth if they are d/p and steal+ sword 2 or 3 if they run s/d. To say steal isn't used in openings, at least in higher levels, is simply untrue. Now I don't think instant damage from stealth is a good thing but to me that's more a stealth mechanic problem than a steal problem (for example shatter mes bursting from stealth showcases that the problem with this is stealth, not steal being instant). You could nerf steal to be unusable while cced and that alone would be a pretty big hit as many thieves save themselves by interrupting follow up damage with steal if they have no stunbreaks up.

I truly think the real discussion that needs to happen is how to balance stealth as a mechanic for this game because in some cases it's way too strong (1 shots from stealth are a thing on many classes, this isn't limited to thief and mesmer) and others it's completely useless and sometimes detrimental (point holding).

@Yannir.4132 said:Pet damage scaling has been in the wish list since launch in 2012. I don't think they deem this worth the massive effort it would be. It would basically be a rehaul and then some.That's because pets having their own stats is the whole point of them having stats in the first place, you're supposed to be able to choose pets with different stats than you.

Also, no one who makes this suggestion ever thinks the consequences through, look at the smokescale's current stats and then imagine what one with actual DPS stats would do to you.

@Patrick.2987 said:

@Yannir.4132 said:

@Patrick.2987 said:This is way too much. I can get on board with Bountiful Disillusionment ICD and generally cutting down Phantasm damage but this other stuff isn't needed. I don't want to see mesmer nerfed to oblivion. I really hope nobody at ANet is even considering nerfing Portal, it's basically a class mechanic. It's what keeps mesmer afloat in any meta, and that's quite alright IMO. I play mesmer very rarely btw. I never really liked it.

Exactly this is the point even this one utility makes it meta regardless and should be looked into. Always suggesting buffs to underused professions like rev and professions like firebrand are fine just has the same affect as leaving rev on it's current state and nerfing firebrand. Not considering renegade here obviously. Why do we need more powercreep when the same effect can be achieved with some simple nerfs?

I don't think portal is that bad. It gives mesmer a place. It's a unique skill that is very influential in the right hands. But it is a SKILL. You can usually recognize a good mesmer from a bad one by how they utilize portal. It's a safety net that keeps mesmer viable and that's a good thing IMO. We can probably agree that mesmer needs to be nerfed but portal is not the skill to nerf.