Jump to content
  • Sign Up

RNG madness


Recommended Posts

Once again the RNG in this game drives me insane. Currently trying to do the IG-6417 questline, stuck at the Optical Sensor. I've been slaughtering birds for hours by now, and did a lot of gathering and other events, else I would have quit after 30 minutes. It just does not drop ^^.

It seems we cannot avoid these discussions once in a while. The official point of view is clear: RNG is random, fair and works. If you take a look at how precursors drop, you know that there are luckier accounts and accounts of players who have not even seen an exotic drop worth more than 5 g for years.

For stuff like the Treasure Hunter collection, the weird RNG droprates are justified. I still beleive increasing the multiplyer by 10 would not harm anyone, but I gave up on that collection when I realized, I do not own a blessed account. I just skip all of these collections in total, craft my precursors and enjoy every exotic worth more than 50s ^^. However whenever I do a collection where you have to obtain a certain item randomly from a drop of a chest/mob I feel a little cheated.

SuggestionThe idea is to limit the pointless grinding to a certain point. If you are collecting normal items, like parts for legendary collections (precursor crafting) or stuff like the above mentioned Optical Sensor, do not make the RNG the only way, make it one way to obtain that item. Example:Either you get it from any bird, or you kill lets say 2000 birds and get it then. 2000 is ridiculous enough to keep your grinding for hours/days. Average accounts should not be cursed by such bad luck with RNG. But in case you belong to this (un)lucky group, your pain is over after 2000 mobs.

Note: 2000 is just an example for a ridiculous high number. You know your own statistics about droprates better than we do. Pick a number of kills you think as average and multiply it with 5. After that amount of tries, the joke is over.

I am aware that RNG means random and if I have bad luck, it is my personal problem and not ANet's fault. But RNG is not working, no human created RNG is truly random.

Why do you think the precursor-crafting system was created?

[Edit] I've got the sensor by now, thanks to @Zohane.7208. But I want to make this clear, it was just an example. I did not start this thread because the of the Optical Sensor. I started it because we hit this topic every few weeks on the forums.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That wouldn't be a bad idea...Like adding a cap where that item becomes eventually 100% drop rate.So let's say an item has a 1% drop rate... Theoretically that means in 100 tries, one should be successful. But that's not always the case. It would be nice if they could add a reverse diminishing return, like when you hit the theoretical limit for that item to drop, you should start getting increasing odds of grabbing the item.Thing is, it might be a absolute monolithic task for the game to track your progress towards dropping each and every possible item within each and every drop table for every single player character (or account) in the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:That wouldn't be a bad idea...Like adding a cap where that item becomes eventually 100% drop rate.

Many games, Diablo 3 for example, do exactly this: a "bad luck protection" system that ensures you get something of value in a reasonable time. (IIRC, their timer is one top-tier item every three hours of gameplay, if you have not gotten one prior to that. So not exactly gonna make you rich, and honestly, unlikely to ever trigger for most players.)

I'd certainly support that for GW2 for many things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@SlippyCheeze.5483 said:

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:That wouldn't be a bad idea...Like adding a cap where that item becomes eventually 100% drop rate.

Many games, Diablo 3 for example, do exactly this: a "bad luck protection" system that ensures you get something of value in a reasonable time. (IIRC, their timer is one top-tier item every three hours of gameplay, if you have not gotten one prior to that. So not exactly gonna make you rich, and honestly, unlikely to ever trigger for most players.)

I'd certainly support that for GW2 for many things.

"Something of value" is not akin to "the item you're farming". You could get a named exotic, that's plenty valuable, but you'd just pass it by because you want another specific thing...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For the Optical Sensor, are you killing birds in the correct spot?I was killing birds all over the isles but when it didn't drop in a reasonable amount of time I checked on Dulfy and apparently there's only a specific set of moa in a specific spot that will drop the sensor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We're hitting something else, which might be the " value of the drop ". That's pretty much the same in Diablo, the overabundance of gold and exotic/legendary items make it you don't even feel cool when you drop them. So basically, it ends up in praying to drop that one item out of 100000 which will make you happy, and then RNG gods are here.

Right now, you have several very worthy items ( sam, rhendak signet,..) but the rest does consist upon a ton of RNG bags, giving other RNG bags, giving most of the time worthless items, even when these are exotics or gold. That's the issue to me, we need " intermediate " drops, in order to make these top drops less " RNG looking "

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:That wouldn't be a bad idea...Like adding a cap where that item becomes eventually 100% drop rate.

Many games, Diablo 3 for example, do exactly this: a "bad luck protection" system that ensures you get something of value in a reasonable time. (IIRC, their timer is one top-tier item every three hours of gameplay, if you have not gotten one prior to that. So not exactly gonna make you rich, and honestly, unlikely to ever trigger for most players.)

I'd certainly support that for GW2 for many things.

"Something of value" is not akin to "the item you're farming". You could get a named exotic, that's plenty valuable, but you'd just pass it by because you want another specific thing...

...that wasn't what I intended to suggest, as it seems that was not clear. I would suggest, in the GW2 context, that these timers would nicely apply to specifically farmed items such as achievement tokens, while the achievement was live.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@SlippyCheeze.5483 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:That wouldn't be a bad idea...Like adding a cap where that item becomes eventually 100% drop rate.

Many games, Diablo 3 for example, do exactly this: a "bad luck protection" system that ensures you get something of value in a reasonable time. (IIRC, their timer is one top-tier item every three hours of gameplay, if you have not gotten one prior to that. So not exactly gonna make you rich, and honestly, unlikely to ever trigger for most players.)

I'd certainly support that for GW2 for many things.

"Something of value" is not akin to "the item you're farming". You could get a named exotic, that's plenty valuable, but you'd just pass it by because you want another specific thing...

...that wasn't what I intended to suggest, as it seems that was not clear. I would suggest, in the GW2 context, that these timers would nicely apply to specifically farmed items such as achievement tokens, while the achievement was live.

Yes i know, but there's a HUGE difference in coding a bit of code that counts your drops and checks for rarity, and if you didn't get an item better than x at #Y drop, drop an item of x rarity or better on y+1. (That would be the bad luck protection).What you want means that the game would have to check every special drop item you can drop at a current moment, check if the mob drops it, check how many times you killed mobs that can drop it, and then see if it should drop or not.It means saving a lot of extra data.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Zohane.7208 said:For the Optical Sensor, are you killing birds in the correct spot?I was killing birds all over the isles but when it didn't drop in a reasonable amount of time I checked on Dulfy and apparently there's only a specific set of moa in a specific spot that will drop the sensor.

This is most likely your problem, there's only moa's in a certain location you can kill to get the drop, and it won't take that long if you only kill those birds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:That wouldn't be a bad idea...Like adding a cap where that item becomes eventually 100% drop rate.

Many games, Diablo 3 for example, do exactly this: a "bad luck protection" system that ensures you get something of value in a reasonable time. (IIRC, their timer is one top-tier item every three hours of gameplay, if you have not gotten one prior to that. So not exactly gonna make you rich, and honestly, unlikely to ever trigger for most players.)

I'd certainly support that for GW2 for many things.

"Something of value" is not akin to "the item you're farming". You could get a named exotic, that's plenty valuable, but you'd just pass it by because you want another specific thing...

...that wasn't what I intended to suggest, as it seems that was not clear. I would suggest, in the GW2 context, that these timers would nicely apply to specifically farmed items such as achievement tokens, while the achievement was live.

Yes i know, but there's a HUGE difference in coding a bit of code that counts your drops and checks for rarity, and if you didn't get an item better than x at #Y drop, drop an item of x rarity or better on y+1. (That would be the bad luck protection).What you want means that the game would have to check every special drop item you can drop at a current moment, check if the mob drops it, check how many times you killed mobs that can drop it, and then see if it should drop or not.It means saving a lot of extra data.

Eh, maybe. I suspect a non-persistent, map tied counter would do the trick, but ... ultimately, I like the idea, and I'm not going to speculate how ANet should do it: I don't know their code, or their architecture beyond the most basic outline, so I'd just be guessing. I'll stick to technical advice on things I am competent to advise on, and stick to suggestions about what feels good and fun when that is the limit of my knowledge. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ReaverKane.7598 said:That wouldn't be a bad idea...Like adding a cap where that item becomes eventually 100% drop rate.So let's say an item has a 1% drop rate... Theoretically that means in 100 tries, one should be successful. But that's not always the case. It would be nice if they could add a reverse diminishing return, like when you hit the theoretical limit for that item to drop, you should start getting increasing odds of grabbing the item.Thing is, it might be a absolute monolithic task for the game to track your progress towards dropping each and every possible item within each and every drop table for every single player character (or account) in the game.

That's actually not how chance works.

No matter how many times you play it..theoretically you still only have 1% chance of getting it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Taygus.4571 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:That wouldn't be a bad idea...Like adding a cap where that item becomes eventually 100% drop rate.So let's say an item has a 1% drop rate... Theoretically that means in 100 tries, one should be successful. But that's not always the case. It would be nice if they could add a reverse diminishing return, like when you hit the theoretical limit for that item to drop, you should start getting increasing odds of grabbing the item.Thing is, it might be a absolute monolithic task for the game to track your progress towards dropping each and every possible item within each and every drop table for every single player character (or account) in the game.

That's actually not how chance works.

No matter how many times you play it..theoretically you still only have 1% chance of getting it.

Yeah, no... That's exactly how probability works. A probability of 1% or 1/100 means that out of 100 events one should have that outcome. It might not be the 100th, it might be the very first, or it might be the 105th. But that's what that means that in 100 events you should expect around one outcome, in 1000 you should expect around 10 outcomes, 10000 tries would mean 100 outcomes, and so on.Also the fact that in 100 tries you get one outcome doesn't alter that event's probability, it's always 1% like you said. The fact that it eventually drops didn't change the probability to 100%, it just means that you hit that event out of 100 that will give it to you.

@SlippyCheeze.5483 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:That wouldn't be a bad idea...Like adding a cap where that item becomes eventually 100% drop rate.

Many games, Diablo 3 for example, do exactly this: a "bad luck protection" system that ensures you get something of value in a reasonable time. (IIRC, their timer is one top-tier item every three hours of gameplay, if you have not gotten one prior to that. So not exactly gonna make you rich, and honestly, unlikely to ever trigger for most players.)

I'd certainly support that for GW2 for many things.

"Something of value" is not akin to "the item you're farming". You could get a named exotic, that's plenty valuable, but you'd just pass it by because you want another specific thing...

...that wasn't what I intended to suggest, as it seems that was not clear. I would suggest, in the GW2 context, that these timers would nicely apply to specifically farmed items such as achievement tokens, while the achievement was live.

Yes i know, but there's a HUGE difference in coding a bit of code that counts your drops and checks for rarity, and if you didn't get an item better than x at #Y drop, drop an item of x rarity or better on y+1. (That would be the bad luck protection).What you want means that the game would have to check every special drop item you can drop at a current moment, check if the mob drops it, check how many times you killed mobs that can drop it, and then see if it should drop or not.It means saving a lot of extra data.

Eh, maybe. I suspect a non-persistent, map tied counter would do the trick, but ... ultimately, I like the idea, and I'm not going to speculate how ANet should do it: I don't know their code, or their architecture beyond the most basic outline, so I'd just be guessing. I'll stick to technical advice on things I am competent to advise on, and stick to suggestions about what feels good and fun when that is the limit of my knowledge. :)

Regardless of how they do it, tracking the counter for individual item drops will always be complicated. It can't be tied to the map, since most items will drop in several different maps.It would be an awesome QoL addition, i just question the feasibility.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 years later...
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...