Feed from Corruption / Parasitic Contagion

Am I the only one who think it would be better if those two were switched?Feed from corruption would be in Curses, and Parasitic contagion would be a scourge thing.The main reason I say that is because I feel like "Feed from corruption" should've been a core trait that never saw the light of day...And also because "Parasitic contagion" does not synergize well with either Core or Reaper, due to the fact it does not function when Life force replaces health, which happens frequently and for extended periods of time for both Reaper and Core.

What are you talking about? Any condi necro build in PvP/WvW would take Parasitic Contagion. It's one of our few (albeit limited) survival tools we have and it should not be locked by an elite specialization.

@Methuselah.4376 said:What are you talking about? Any condi necro build in PvP/WvW would take Parasitic Contagion. It's one of our few (albeit limited) survival tools we have and it should not be locked by an elite specialization.

No, they take Weakening Shroud in those cases. Much more effective, as our main survival tool doesn't turn it off.

I rather like the idea of swapping the two traits.

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Methuselah.4376 said:What are you talking about? Any condi necro build in PvP/WvW would take Parasitic Contagion. It's one of our few (albeit limited) survival tools we have and it should not be locked by an elite specialization.

Eh, Parasitic Contagion is better than Weakening Shroud for Scourge. Especially in WvW.

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Methuselah.4376 said:What are you talking about? Any condi necro build in PvP/WvW would take Parasitic Contagion. It's one of our few (albeit limited) survival tools we have and it should not be locked by an elite specialization.

For Scourge, yes. Scourge would still have Parasitic Contagion, though. Core and Reaper won't miss it.

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Methuselah.4376 said:What are you talking about? Any condi necro build in PvP/WvW would take Parasitic Contagion. It's one of our few (albeit limited) survival tools we have and it should not be locked by an elite specialization.

They most certainly would. Condi Reaper might not benefit from the healing whilst in shroud, but it also gets a smaller dps loss from taking it due to not always having a Scepter equipped. Also as long as Epidemic is a thing any condi Necro build will greatly benefit from using PC and Epi as a large heal combo.

Reaper/Core Necro also have less varied forms of boon corruption than Scourge does, which would undermine FFC's effectiveness for them.

@Amerikajinn.4635 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@"Methuselah.4376" said:What are you talking about? Any condi necro build in PvP/WvW would take Parasitic Contagion. It's one of our few (albeit limited) survival tools we have and it should not be locked by an elite specialization.

I doubt they would miss it that much... Reaper is no longer an optimal choice for condition damage, and neither is Core, after all...As for the boon corruption part, Reaper and Core still can possess very effective tools!Spiteful Spirit is an excellent boon corruptor because of the frequency at which it can be used, and also because it can corrupt up to 4 boons at once (On multiple targets, too!). There is also Path of Corruption in Curses, which can allow Death's charge to corrupt 2 boons on multiple targets and probably Dark Path too (Although Dark Path would require testing as it can apply a chill to nearby foes, but not damage them).Plus, there is still Well of Corruption which is a commonly used utility on both Core and Reaper.And Reapers also have access to the hidden godsend that is "Nothing Can Save You"!

I'm against the idea of locking traits behind elite specs that have previously been available on core. And as someone that uses both Sand Savant and Parasitic Contagion in WvW, I don't want to have to choose between those two in my 3rd scourge slot.

@killfil.3472 said:

@Amerikajinn.4635 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Methuselah.4376 said:What are you talking about? Any condi necro build in PvP/WvW would take Parasitic Contagion. It's one of our few (albeit limited) survival tools we have and it should not be locked by an elite specialization.

Even if you were right (which you're not, Condi Reaper is more optimal if higher burst damage is required in tandem with the other benefits of condi Reaper), locking iconic Core GM traits behind an elite specialization because that Elite Specc is the most optimal for x damage type is absurd; it would be like saying the Ranger's Nature Magic trait Nature's Vengence should only be in Druid because Druid is the most optimal for running support for ranger.

As for the boon corruption part, Reaper and Core still can possess very effective tools!

And Scourge has access to a wider variety by merit of having punishment skills to use, as well as more ranged options like the ranged version of Path of Corruption via usage of shades and Nefarious Favor and unending Corruption. Scourge is built around being able to wipe away more boons than Core Necro or Reaper, and transferring a GM trait that is part of that identity into the core specc and replacing it with a trait that is more universally geared toward condition damage is once again absurd.

There is also Path of Corruption in Curses, which can allow Death's charge to corrupt 2 boons on multiple targets and probably Dark Path too (Although Dark Path would require testing as it can apply a chill to nearby foes, but not damage them).

And when used with Scourge can corrupt 10-12 boons at best without the restrictions of having to be in Shroud to do it.

Plus, there is still Well of Corruption which is a commonly used utility on both Core and Reaper.

I'm not talking about what Necro already has, I'm talking about what Scourge has in abundance OVER the other speccs. Because scourge has access to a larger variety of boon corrupt (punishment skills, more frequent usages of Path of Corruption, unending Corruption, etc.) it ca better select which skills work for a specific situation. Core and Reaper do not have that same depth of selection to work with for Feed from Corruption.

This is all also completely putting aside the point that this not only locks out core/Reaper from PC, it also prevents Scourge from being able to run it in tandem with it's other GM traits. A Scourge running a supportive build utilizing Curses for a cd reduction on Epidemic might run PC to improve personal survivability in tandem with Sand Savant. This change locks out that build option.

@killfil.3472 said:And also because "Parasitic contagion" does not synergize well with either Core or Reaper, due to the fact it does not function when Life force replaces health, which happens frequently and for extended periods of time for both Reaper and Core.

Except it does, it merely causes a shift in the playstyle of a condi necro player when they take this trait. If one is utilizing the regenerative properties of this with a powerful condi rotation to back it up, you have to use shroud as a burst tool and not as a defensive one. Because Scourge does not have this same restriction does not automatically mean that it should have one of the most effective survival-based traits that is in the game for a pure damage build all to itself.

@Amerikajinn.4635 said:

@killfil.3472 said:

@Amerikajinn.4635 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Methuselah.4376 said:What are you talking about? Any condi necro build in PvP/WvW would take Parasitic Contagion. It's one of our few (albeit limited) survival tools we have and it should not be locked by an elite specialization.

As for the boon corruption part, Reaper and Core still can possess very effective tools!

There is also Path of Corruption in Curses, which can allow Death's charge to corrupt 2 boons on multiple targets and probably Dark Path too (Although Dark Path would require testing as it can apply a chill to nearby foes, but not damage them).

Plus, there is still Well of Corruption which is a commonly used utility on both Core and Reaper.

@killfil.3472 said:And also because "Parasitic contagion" does not synergize well with either Core or Reaper, due to the fact it does not function when Life force replaces health, which happens frequently and for extended periods of time for both Reaper and Core.

Well put!Indeed, Reaper's Shroud is not the defensive mechanic it used to be which means you would have to rely more on other methods until you regenerate your life force. Core....well...who the hell takes core anyways?

I like the idea of putting Feed From Corruption in Curses.I don't like the idea of putting Parasitic Contagion in Scourge; "it doesn't work while you're in shroud so core shouldn't get it"? Just make it work while the Necro's in Shroud.Make room by moving Terror, maybe. Part of me thinks maybe it'd work as a Soul Reaping GM.Dhuumfire might actually be okay to move down to Scourge. It fits the Burning theme, it's basically mandatory as a Condi Scourge, and it feels really really gross (at least to me) to use it as Reaper.

Feast could replace PC as Curses GM. Then PC could be moved to Curses Adept with reduced value, let's say 4-7%, replacing Chill on blind trait.

Also, Terror could be a little weaker, but steal health instead of doing damage.

@"killfil.3472" said:Am I the only one who think it would be better if those two were switched?Feed from corruption would be in Curses, and Parasitic contagion would be a scourge thing.The main reason I say that is because I feel like "Feed from corruption" should've been a core trait that never saw the light of day...And also because "Parasitic contagion" does not synergize well with either Core or Reaper, due to the fact it does not function when Life force replaces health, which happens frequently and for extended periods of time for both Reaper and Core.

FUCKING YES PLEASE

IVE WANTED THIS SENSE THE SKILL LANDED IN THE GAMEIve been saying it over and over and over again it should have been a thing.

Core necro benifits from a skill like Feed from corruption much better than scourge does.

EditIt would be the quickest way to force scourges to choose between more sustain and more damage and unlock them from always taking sand savant which is something no one likes going up against in any situation

It would also allow power core and reaper to shine with MUCH MORE potential in competitive game modes.

Scourge makes 0 use of feed from corruption currently and unless the whole elite speck is reworked like deadeye to include a condi and a power build in its lines feed from corupption will never get put to any use. So long as sand savant is the better and optimal choice and the power scaling on scourge is trash its a golden trait locked behind a elite spec that cant even make the most of it.

@Rym.1469 said:Feast could replace PC as Curses GM. Then PC could be moved to Curses Adept with reduced value, let's say 4-7%, replacing Chill on blind trait.

Also, Terror could be a little weaker, but steal health instead of doing damage.

totally against this btw that chill on blind trait is strong as it will proc any time you corrupt fury causing blind, chill, and vuln, all at one instant.Leave terror out of it its already too weak as it is the last thing it needs is damage reduction for some droplets of health stealing.The fear condition is too weak and too rare to make any use of it stealing health.

I think our best intention should be to remove the xzibit traits (when you apply X condition you apply Y condition and when you apply Y condition you apply Z condition) from the game, not keep them. Right now this trait isn't seeing use anyway. Minor healing however could compete fairly well against condition transfer in the same tier.

Terror isn't a thing mostly because fear traits have been scattered around with specialization patch instead of being in one line as previously. If Terror was made into slightly weaker damage, but siphon it could actually bring a lot of Fear-related stuff back on the table.If we say that currently a tick of Terror is 1000 damage and lifesteal version was 700-800, Staff 5 ticking once could potentially be upwards of 3500-4000 healing alone. That sort of numbers could push Spectral Wall, Fear of Death trait into the viable territory and competing with PoCorruption, give an alternative approach to Curses.

@Rym.1469 said:I think our best intention should be to remove the xzibit traits (when you apply X condition you apply Y condition and when you apply Y condition you apply Z condition) from the game, not keep them. Right now this trait isn't seeing use anyway. Minor healing however could compete fairly well against condition transfer in the same tier.

Then you need to rework all of necros condition application to be as intense as weaver, and mesmer, because of how it is ^ as you just explained above is the reason necro does not have insta melt condi bombs like professions. As we apply a wider range of conditions at a time rather than a large number of a single few damaging ones.

Also consider the fact those particular conditions are 75% of necros defense and pressure.

Terror isn't a thing mostly because fear traits have been scattered around with specialization patch instead of being in one line as previously. If Terror was made into slightly weaker damage, but siphon it could actually bring a lot of Fear-related stuff back on the table.

No it wont adding a slight hp leech to it wont make it any better. The reason that terror does not perform well is because necro lacks a proper application level of fears to make it work. At any given time you have 2-3 fears at most and those 2 or 3 fears they do not last long enough to deal sufficient damage to make the build viable out side of roaming for a 1v1 situation. Even then fear is too easily mitigated by resistance, stability, breakstuns, and condi clear.

To start what needs to happen to make fear viable1: It should only be removable via break stuns. (it needs to become an effect) This alone removes 2 mitigation sources off the table making it more relevant. This is the main thing that needs to happen.2: The fear trait from soul reaping needs to be merged back into the curses trait terror. (Remove the on being downed effect but keep the rest) this is a minor thing that will help slightly but its not the bulk of the problem.3: Staff marks should have 2 charges each (This provides and additional fear for the necormancer)or4: The core doom skill on shroud should have 2 charges

If we say that currently a tick of Terror is 1000 damage and lifesteal version was 700-800, Staff 5 ticking once could potentially be upwards of 3500-4000 healing alone. That sort of numbers could push Spectral Wall, Fear of Death trait into the viable territory and competing with PoCorruption, give an alternative approach to Curses.

you are over pushing numbers by a long shot here1 Condi damage does not scale hp stealing with the exception of the trait PC

2 You are better off with the current terror as it can push 1100+ ish damage a second with grieving ammy or something similar to that nature.You also assumed that you would get the max duration of your fears and that you are hitting max number of targets with the mark ( which is unlikely to happen.) Not to mention not even the grand master trait which turns all condi damage into healing heals you those kinds of numbers on a good day why would they make a trait one tier lower over perform a grand master.

In a pve situation PC has you covered as your condition application is easier and sticks to much higher dps a second which scales your healing per second. While terror on the other hand would still be very subpar when compared to PC overall adding healing to terror is just not worth it wont make it any more compeitive than it is because fear traits being split across traitlines is not what kills the build. All the ways fear can be slapped off or ignored is what makes the build dead.

Condi reaper is superior in dmg to condi scourge

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Condi reaper is superior in dmg to condi scourge

Not really. It's like 500 DPS difference on golem.And heavily relies on still standing enemy and his combofinishers.So no. Scourge is much better. Especially if enemy starts moving

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Condi reaper is superior in dmg to condi scourge

Not really superior, both suit different purposes and excel in different situations (plus, given their builds are almost identical aside from traits there's no reason why you can't run both).

Condi Reaper has superior burst damage and CC, allowing it to performs better in situations where you want to play Necro but also want higher burst damage for stuff like fractals. It also doesn't suffer as much from alterations to traits like taking Parasitic Contagion (which results in a 10% dps loss compared to the 15% for Scourge). Finally it brings an alternate pool of offensive supportive tools in the form of pulls and AoE blinds for add control.

Condi Scourge has a better mastery of AoE damage, and a wider spread of conditions it applies (on top of the bonus damage it gets for torment form Demonic Lore). As a result, while Condi Reaper can still epi bounce Scourge does a better job at it. Scourge also brings more defensive supportive options in the form of barriers and aoe condition removal on top of the supplementary might stacking for allies.

Both builds work in different situations, and sure as a result there is always a case where one will be better than the other, but you lose nothing by being proficient with both if Necro is your playstyle as swapping between the two is a simple as swapping weapons, traits and a few infusions around.

@Nimon.7840 said:And heavily relies on still standing enemy and his combofinishers.So no. Scourge is much better. Especially if enemy starts moving

To be fair, a lot of classes start having issues when a target starts moving; but beside that in most cases were a target is going to move is either controllable or predictable. If one is already good enough to properly attune to combo fields then they're good enough to predict where a target will move and place the ice field accordingly.

@"killfil.3472" said:Am I the only one who think it would be better if those two were switched?Feed from corruption would be in Curses, and Parasitic contagion would be a scourge thing.The main reason I say that is because I feel like "Feed from corruption" should've been a core trait that never saw the light of day...And also because "Parasitic contagion" does not synergize well with either Core or Reaper, due to the fact it does not function when Life force replaces health, which happens frequently and for extended periods of time for both Reaper and Core.

I like the idea and it would solve the age long problem that has been faced by condi core and reaper: Lifeforce generation rate.

Oh my bad...I mistook FFC for Nourishing Ashes...Nourishing Ashes should be made available on the curses line to solve the condi necro's life force generation problem...

Sorry to wake this thread up after so much time but i completely agree with op. It should be swapped. Also people will be able to take sand savant and feed from corruption tovether in wvw. And core builds survivability and gameplay will be much much better.

@XECOR.2814 said:Sorry to wake this thread up after so much time but i completely agree with op. It should be swapped. Also people will be able to take sand savant and feed from corruption tovether in wvw. And core builds survivability and gameplay will be much much better.

AYYYY!

I also agree. I've wanted this trait for Reaper for a long time. My issue is that Necromancer has boon removal/corruption so heavily ingrained into the class.. Boon Removal is fine, but Boon Corruption sometimes seems like a waste when it gets converted to a condition that does damage as opposed to a CC condition when you're a Power Necromancer/Reaper. With that trait, a Power Necromancer/Reaper won't feel like his Boon Corruptions that get turned into Conditions a waste over other CC conditions.

I'd also like to point out that it would then synergize quite well with Blighter's Boon, and would open up more build opportunities. I've honestly wanted this since they added Scourge in with that trait.

Lastly, with how hard Reaper has been pushed further from Condition to Power, it would be a welcome change. I've been a Condi Reaper for a long time now and I do love it a lot, but only because Power Reaper was always in a bad spot. I love Reaper regardless, and with the changes buffing Power Reaper.. I'd be okay giving up Condi Reaper. I'm sort of in the middle now. If we ever did get access to that trait though, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

How about making parasitic contagion heal in shroud instead of removing the only decent sustain core necro has.

@Zex Anthon.8673 said:How about making parasitic contagion heal in shroud instead of removing the only decent sustain core necro has.

OH GIGGITY HOT DAMN THE MADMAN'S SAID IT