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Eater of Souls fight is too difficult.

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  • Erulogos.2591Erulogos.2591 Member ✭✭✭

    The main sticking point to me is the class imbalance on this. Staff Ele, GS Mez, etc? You're golden. Melee spec? Sucks to be you. I dread this fight on my holosmith, the quick breakbar will make PF5 and PLB usless (cast times on CC skills, ugh,) I have to hope shield 5 will work. Or plink away at him with the minimal range tools holo provides and make an already lengthy story slog (with no checkpoints, which is the -other- sticking point for this instance) even longer.

  • Seera.5916Seera.5916 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @Zaltys.7649 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:
    It's a L2P issue. You figured it out and that's great, but there's no reason to nerf it because some players can't figure it out first try. It doesn't mean they're less good or anything, simply that easy content for the sake of easy content only serves a category of people who want to faceroll everything without effort.

    I didn't think that it'd be necessary to say it, but... everyone plays MMORPGs for different reasons. Some enjoy combat, some don't. For some, combat is just a pointless roadblock that gets in the way of the enjoyable things: story, exploration, crafting, playing the market, etc.

    Here's a thought: what if the storyline had featured a difficult jump puzzle that you needed to complete to advance? And no help from mesmers. 'Get good at jumping, learn to play'. Do you think that everyone would've been happy with that? This is no different.

    Forcing everyone to 'get good' in something that they don't enjoy is never good for the game. Seen it happen numerous times over the decades: the 'casuals' quit, and the 'hardcore' players aren't enough to support further development.

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Manijin.3428 said:
    The content IS soloable for everyone. Just gotta learn how to do it.

    This is GW style stuff right here. If you think this one solo story instance is bad, I strongly recommend not playing GW1. Learning from your failures is part of getting better at the game, and I'm glad ANet has taken some steps over the years to encourage their player base to become more skilled. Yeah, it's frustrating sometimes, but the great thing about learning is that it opens up new horizons for your experience.

    I remember back when GW2 launched, and doing dungeons with undergeared, level-appropriate groups, before specializations, when people hadn't even unlocked their elite skills, etc. What the experience taught me was that 1) Dying was a natural part of the game experience, and 2) You needed to be flexible in your approach to solving problems. Now, at level 80 that all kinda fell apart, but those lessons stuck with me, so I've resisted all the calls to go pure Zerk, etc., because I learned early on that having survivability through traits and gear made the game MUCH more palatable, and really made it quite easy, but that you also can't go too tanky if you're doing solo content because it takes FOREVER.

    People just need to learn the game better, swap some stuff around, and find something works. If you're failing at a fight like this, it's possible you've been carried by some meta build that suddenly doesn't work anymore, or by a tanky build that lives through most content, but has numbed you to specific content that requires timelier counters. But GW has always been, since GW1, about being adaptable and flexible, so you just gotta adapt. Hopefully, you'll get past it, because the story really only gets better after this instance. :P

    There's being flexible and there's being completely unable to do soloable content. Sometimes it's a learn to play issue, this is not a learn to play issue, and I'm speaking as someone who has finished it. There are a thousand reasons why someone isn't as good at the game as you, and 'not being good enough' is only one of them, this needs to get nerfed to accommodate players who enjoy the solo content, because they can't even bring in friends to help, those friends are turned into useless wisps, and they can't even access their inventory as well, making the situation much harder than standard GW2 gameplay, and if i remember, gw1 was all about having a full party to complete everything, whereas this one situation in gw2, the only one like it, is now impossible for some because they can't do things they could regularly do in the rest of the game. While yes, that does require some adapting, you're asking people who are suddenly kitten in a couple of ways to further adapt to a boss that can fully heal itself if someone doesn't have the required cc, and in which having cc is the only solution to the problem, but the window in which to use that cc is extremely small for the maximum benefit.

    Sounds nothing like GW1 to me. People are having issues in a soloable experience, it needs to be looked at and nerfed. The most tasteful nerf I can think of is having that initial jumps breakbar be extended from a mere half a second to two or three seconds. That's all it would take to make the experience go from unplayable to manageable Because some people just have high ping or low fps based on things out of their control like what country they live in, but there's also things with disabilities too, people who just don't have a fast enough reaction time, and on top of that some classes will have a harder time with it too if they have longer cast times for ccs.

    How is that not a learn to play issue?
    Really, what are these "thousands reasons", what is it that makes new generation of gamers so unable to tolerate a single challenge?
    Strategies were given for pretty much ALL classes about how to do it, EVEN if you have difficulties (which you SHOULD at some point in a game), you can simply stay away from the boss whe he does his infamous jump attack. How, like... how, does that translate to "unable to do solo content"??
    If it was unplayable, nobody would manage it. There would be much more people asking for nerfs, and there wouldn't be many strategies about it, or people saying it wasn't that hard.
    It is because Anet constantly nerf everything worth little challenge in story that we get pugs in meta that have no idea how to do any mechanics of any boss.

    It's a game for everyone yes, but they have the entire core game, plus HoT, worth of easy content, and they have guides here and there, there is no excuse for asking for nerf not even a week after expansion release (it was started within the first week).

    And no, GW1 had nothing to do with this constant faceroll of story missions.
    Remember Augury Rock? Remember having to defeat your double? Remember the siege in Droknar with Confessor Dorian? Remember the fight with Varesh? The fight with Shiro? Remember that missions in Maguuma where you were fighting another team of white mantle ? All of that content could be done solo too.
    Everything needed to know some mechanics, and you couldn't change ANYTHING about your build once in the instance. Elite zones? If you wipes, you had to restart it all.

    And people were not complaining about every little challenge just about constantly.
    It baffles me that people don't realize how games in general have become increasingly easier, with checkpoint every 2 minutes and basically no need for strategy or anything, and STILL find a way to want it easier.

    Someone in Australia who has bad ping just due to distance from the server may not be able to break the bar fast enough with their ping.

    People with a physical disability that make the quick play next to impossible or even impossible.

    Older players whose hand eye coordination has started to go down as happens when we get older.

    • Australian raiders are a thing, and lots are pretty good at it. Not that it makes it easier for them, but it's doable and as said by many you can simply range this fight and have no timing issue.
    • Would affect hard content like raiding, but there are still strategies that doesn't require fast thinking, aoe that do CC and stuff, and again, ranging.
    • Adapting a build has nothing to do with ping, disability or slow reaction.

    Just so you know, It took me a bit to get the mechanics and I was doing most of the fight ranged, effectively ignoring the core mechanic... and it's definitely doable.

    Last I checked personal story wasn't supposed to be at the difficulty level of raids. So how about we just talk about the average player and the average player doesn't do raids.

    There's only so much one can adapt a build to fit your limitations. And its made worse by the restrictions in this mission that I've NEVER SEEN used in other places. A player who normally can melee or short range enemies and bosses and doesn't regularly do world bosses may not keep a ranged item in their inventory. Telling that person to go ranged for this mission is pointless because they can't open their bank or be able to pick up anything bought off of the trading post. And if they quit, they have to redo the fight with Balthazar.

  • Deihnyx.6318Deihnyx.6318 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @Zaltys.7649 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:
    It's a L2P issue. You figured it out and that's great, but there's no reason to nerf it because some players can't figure it out first try. It doesn't mean they're less good or anything, simply that easy content for the sake of easy content only serves a category of people who want to faceroll everything without effort.

    I didn't think that it'd be necessary to say it, but... everyone plays MMORPGs for different reasons. Some enjoy combat, some don't. For some, combat is just a pointless roadblock that gets in the way of the enjoyable things: story, exploration, crafting, playing the market, etc.

    Here's a thought: what if the storyline had featured a difficult jump puzzle that you needed to complete to advance? And no help from mesmers. 'Get good at jumping, learn to play'. Do you think that everyone would've been happy with that? This is no different.

    Forcing everyone to 'get good' in something that they don't enjoy is never good for the game. Seen it happen numerous times over the decades: the 'casuals' quit, and the 'hardcore' players aren't enough to support further development.

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Manijin.3428 said:
    The content IS soloable for everyone. Just gotta learn how to do it.

    This is GW style stuff right here. If you think this one solo story instance is bad, I strongly recommend not playing GW1. Learning from your failures is part of getting better at the game, and I'm glad ANet has taken some steps over the years to encourage their player base to become more skilled. Yeah, it's frustrating sometimes, but the great thing about learning is that it opens up new horizons for your experience.

    I remember back when GW2 launched, and doing dungeons with undergeared, level-appropriate groups, before specializations, when people hadn't even unlocked their elite skills, etc. What the experience taught me was that 1) Dying was a natural part of the game experience, and 2) You needed to be flexible in your approach to solving problems. Now, at level 80 that all kinda fell apart, but those lessons stuck with me, so I've resisted all the calls to go pure Zerk, etc., because I learned early on that having survivability through traits and gear made the game MUCH more palatable, and really made it quite easy, but that you also can't go too tanky if you're doing solo content because it takes FOREVER.

    People just need to learn the game better, swap some stuff around, and find something works. If you're failing at a fight like this, it's possible you've been carried by some meta build that suddenly doesn't work anymore, or by a tanky build that lives through most content, but has numbed you to specific content that requires timelier counters. But GW has always been, since GW1, about being adaptable and flexible, so you just gotta adapt. Hopefully, you'll get past it, because the story really only gets better after this instance. :P

    There's being flexible and there's being completely unable to do soloable content. Sometimes it's a learn to play issue, this is not a learn to play issue, and I'm speaking as someone who has finished it. There are a thousand reasons why someone isn't as good at the game as you, and 'not being good enough' is only one of them, this needs to get nerfed to accommodate players who enjoy the solo content, because they can't even bring in friends to help, those friends are turned into useless wisps, and they can't even access their inventory as well, making the situation much harder than standard GW2 gameplay, and if i remember, gw1 was all about having a full party to complete everything, whereas this one situation in gw2, the only one like it, is now impossible for some because they can't do things they could regularly do in the rest of the game. While yes, that does require some adapting, you're asking people who are suddenly kitten in a couple of ways to further adapt to a boss that can fully heal itself if someone doesn't have the required cc, and in which having cc is the only solution to the problem, but the window in which to use that cc is extremely small for the maximum benefit.

    Sounds nothing like GW1 to me. People are having issues in a soloable experience, it needs to be looked at and nerfed. The most tasteful nerf I can think of is having that initial jumps breakbar be extended from a mere half a second to two or three seconds. That's all it would take to make the experience go from unplayable to manageable Because some people just have high ping or low fps based on things out of their control like what country they live in, but there's also things with disabilities too, people who just don't have a fast enough reaction time, and on top of that some classes will have a harder time with it too if they have longer cast times for ccs.

    How is that not a learn to play issue?
    Really, what are these "thousands reasons", what is it that makes new generation of gamers so unable to tolerate a single challenge?
    Strategies were given for pretty much ALL classes about how to do it, EVEN if you have difficulties (which you SHOULD at some point in a game), you can simply stay away from the boss whe he does his infamous jump attack. How, like... how, does that translate to "unable to do solo content"??
    If it was unplayable, nobody would manage it. There would be much more people asking for nerfs, and there wouldn't be many strategies about it, or people saying it wasn't that hard.
    It is because Anet constantly nerf everything worth little challenge in story that we get pugs in meta that have no idea how to do any mechanics of any boss.

    It's a game for everyone yes, but they have the entire core game, plus HoT, worth of easy content, and they have guides here and there, there is no excuse for asking for nerf not even a week after expansion release (it was started within the first week).

    And no, GW1 had nothing to do with this constant faceroll of story missions.
    Remember Augury Rock? Remember having to defeat your double? Remember the siege in Droknar with Confessor Dorian? Remember the fight with Varesh? The fight with Shiro? Remember that missions in Maguuma where you were fighting another team of white mantle ? All of that content could be done solo too.
    Everything needed to know some mechanics, and you couldn't change ANYTHING about your build once in the instance. Elite zones? If you wipes, you had to restart it all.

    And people were not complaining about every little challenge just about constantly.
    It baffles me that people don't realize how games in general have become increasingly easier, with checkpoint every 2 minutes and basically no need for strategy or anything, and STILL find a way to want it easier.

    Someone in Australia who has bad ping just due to distance from the server may not be able to break the bar fast enough with their ping.

    People with a physical disability that make the quick play next to impossible or even impossible.

    Older players whose hand eye coordination has started to go down as happens when we get older.

    • Australian raiders are a thing, and lots are pretty good at it. Not that it makes it easier for them, but it's doable and as said by many you can simply range this fight and have no timing issue.
    • Would affect hard content like raiding, but there are still strategies that doesn't require fast thinking, aoe that do CC and stuff, and again, ranging.
    • Adapting a build has nothing to do with ping, disability or slow reaction.

    Just so you know, It took me a bit to get the mechanics and I was doing most of the fight ranged, effectively ignoring the core mechanic... and it's definitely doable.

    Last I checked personal story wasn't supposed to be at the difficulty level of raids. So how about we just talk about the average player and the average player doesn't do raids.

    There's only so much one can adapt a build to fit your limitations. And its made worse by the restrictions in this mission that I've NEVER SEEN used in other places. A player who normally can melee or short range enemies and bosses and doesn't regularly do world bosses may not keep a ranged item in their inventory. Telling that person to go ranged for this mission is pointless because they can't open their bank or be able to pick up anything bought off of the trading post. And if they quit, they have to redo the fight with Balthazar.

    This specific comment about raid was just to say that the ping does not mean you can't do fights. Getting used to a higher ping will take some time to get used to it (I would know, I travel from the US to Europe often) but it's not undo-able.

    I also haven't said anything about the necessity to add a checkpoint. Maybe it'd be a good middle-ground solution, but the fight itself is fine.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2017

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:
    I said that the people coming here (on forums) to ask for nerf are perfectly able to read guides as well. If you're not willing to read and try getting better at a game, even when people have spent time explaining how you can win, I call that lazy. Feel free to find it illegitimate but I stand strong on that opinion.

    except i pointed out there were people who don't read the forums at all, and your response was to talk about the people who do?
    See my confusion?

    Yeah, a few GW1 fights seemed impossible to me at the beginning, now I would do them 5 years after without thinking too much about it... why? Cause I learned how they work, learned the mechanics and all.

    You missed the point entirely and didn't even quote me correctly since you quoted me quoting you.

    A wrong quote, definitely a strong argument. (sarcasm)
    I could have quoted the whole thing but it didn't make sense since you admitted yourself that this game had a more challenging content. Somehow you found a way to turn it against me, good job.

    ???? how did i make any argument here?

    Same reason we get topics complaining about pretty much every aspect of the game. Some people have specific issues and are blaming the game before even considering the fact that they're doing something wrong.
    Most people got through it, so maybe, just MAYBE consider the problem comes from you BEFORE asking for nerfing, is that too much to ask?

    Considered the problem, heavily, after talking to a few people about it. Still came to the forums because that was the most logical thing to do instead of leaving people to be unable to finish the story.

    What I keep saying is that a minority of people unable to do something doesn't mean it's game issue, nor that it should be nerfed. They look for help instead. You have the tendency of assuming things I haven't said.

    You never talked about a minority of people, but regardless, while the point may stand with regards to other games, it doesn't stand for this instance.

    I said twice that not all content is easy in that quote. What are you talking about?

    Its audience is certainly wider, but GW1 veterans are still there and deserve better than see absolutely ALL content being incredibly and frustratingly made easy to suit the needs of (a few) new people.

    That. Which I quoted. And you missed.

    I'm willing to admit a communication issue here (through "be made easy" shows it's not the case as of right now, but should you have it your way it would be all easy) but please, there's no need to add all that sarcasm to strengthen a point that isn't there in the first place.

    The point is there, being willfully blind to it is the issue i'm having with your arguments.

    Again, the whole L2P argument being turned into "disrespect". Talk about leaps in logic...

    ???

    What never stops is that people like you feel so entitled to your content that you don't want anyone else touching it. The utter contempt, disrespect and vitriol pointed at me and others who had the misfortune of suggesting difficulty levels for raids, as in you get to keep your hard content but others get to experience it at easier difficulties, really shows the entitlement that people feel over difficult content. You may not be like that, but you have certainly shown that you share some of that mentality.

    I was talking about the disrespect towards people suggesting difficulty modes. Like, that was clear. Sharing a mentality doesn't mean you've shown disrespect.

    Meanwhile there are players who made a discord channel for raid training. These people are worth respect and are actually doing something positive that helps casuals AND veteran raiders alike.

    Yes, those people exist, but this conversation was never about them. Those people existing doesn't erase the toxic attitude some in the community have shown to sensible ideas, and vice versa.

    I have a mentality of a gamer who finds reward in beating a challenging content, rather than farming the same stuff 100 times to get a shiny reward. For a long while it's what video games were about but somehow today it turned into something where casual gamers are king and everything must be done for them. Allow me, as a GW1 veteran, to be against that without being insulted.

    Dark souls? Hellblade? Games with permadeath? Battlegrounds? Risk of Rain? The entire rogue-like and rogue-lite genres? Darkest Dungeon? Clearly that's not the case, many games are being targeted towards players who prefer challenge, and there are upcoming mmos who are doing that as well. On top of that, raids and fractals exist within this game, meaning you are being catered to. What's really baffling is that you're

    And talking about disrespect with the tone you've been using in this last post is uncalled for.

    I mean, have you seen some of the stuff you've said? Especially when you'd rather assume that people are lazy rather than having an actual difficulty with the game. That, right there, is insulting people.

    Oh and just in case you think i'm making that up:

    I'm sorry but life reasons aren't an excuse to make everything constantly easier. Changing something will end up affecting other people who liked the content. Adapting and a build and asking for help is nothing crazy. Do not hide lazyness behind some moral concepts.

    Do you see the irony in your statement?

    You're defending a done battle. People had issues with the fight but went through it. For the few people who learned something, they'll be better at the game. And that alone shows it doesn't need to be addressed.

    It's not a done battle, the discussion is still going, aka it's not finished, and no, just because some people managed to beat it doesn't mean everyone is capable of it as the fight is in it's current format.

    The suggestion isn't the issue, the issue is that it's not critical to win the fights, there are other ways.

    It's impossible to move on with the story mission without beating this boss.

    Like okay, find me someone who is having issues, who followed the guides for his class and who gave up after an hour or two of giving it a fair try.

    Why should we demand players be able to follow a guide for their class in order to beat this boss?

    Because all you're doing right now is telling me how horrible I am for not caring about "these players", but all we see in this thread are player who made it (hence why unplayable = BS)

    The OP and several people who responded, saying they find the fight unfair or that they couldn't finish it?

    What I see is simply people who've had issues, which I personally consider normal for a boss. We disagree on that and there's not point trying to debate about that.

    Having issues with a boss is normal. Having a personal story boss that's unbeatable for some people is not. That's the very core of this discussion.

    I can't have missed a point you made since I made this example from scratch. This isn't honest.

    It absolutely is honest, lets look at those two quotes together. EDIT: formatting the quotes below. EDIT: How can i mess this up so badly? EDIT: Oh for the love of god.

    me
    Is that, really, at it's core, such a huge ask, to extend the duration of a breakbar from half a second to 2 seconds? Are you really so offended at the idea that something could possibly need tweaking for people who are having a difficult time at a solo experience? Is it such an insult to the GW2 community as a whole that a single boss fight have a single mechanic tweaked slightly to help involve players and allow them to complete the whole Path of Fire personal story where they could not do so beforehand?
    I don't understand this hostile attitude to anyone who wants something to be manageable at a soloable level. The fight doesn't even need to be wholly redone or balanced, just make the breakbars last longer. The complete lack of ability to think about how someone else may be struggling is absolutely fascinating in ways that they bend over backwards to create arguments out of thin air why something should remain unplayable to some people. Empathy people, think about others who aren't as good/experienced at the game as you are, it's not a huge ask.

    You
    Again, please leave out the morale out of that, It's got nothing to do with empathy, I do not recognize struggling in a video game as a valid reason for making said game easier. It's a game, it's not real life. It's not the end of the world if you don't win a fight first try.
    If we take the following case: 50% wants the game easy, 50% wants it challenging. All the easy missions (a vast majority of this game) are impacting players who like it challenging, and all challenging missions are impacting those who want it easy.
    You are basically telling me that people who want it easy should always have the last word. That somehow, they have priority and we should all accept to have our game made super easy for them, even though this is already the majority of the content in the game.
    Well, I simply don't agree, and I'm pretty sure there's less than 50% who want it easy.

    While I was talking about this one specific bossfight in this one specific story instance, you went on to talk about the broad aspect of players wanting to take on personal story instances and those preferences. It does entirely miss the point of the argument because it talks about another matter entirely.

    Let me give you a counter suggestion: Don't nerf the fight, but allow for a training of basic mechanics that aren't gated behind a living season content. And then after, let's see how many people find that fight "unplayable".

    That's actually a reasonable suggestion. it would eliminate most of the issues that revolve around harder story instances and gameplay in the open world, fractals and raids. Also having some sort of mechanic to train players about which builds/traits and weapons go well together would be a huge benefit to the community as a whole, vets would of course not need it, but new players would because this game is absolutely terrible at teaching players the finer points of buildcraft.

    It would not, however, eliminate the issues with this specific story instance. Extending the breakbar by two seconds would.

    You also have no numbers, nor I have any, I just see the trend of Anet trying to make things more interesting, suggesting players want them.
    If you don't have numbers, don't make it an argument against me at the very least, I've tried to be fair and divide the community in two. I don't care if it's 40/60, or 60/40. It's not the point, the point is there's a lot of easy content already and we don't need to nerf that one (or the chef, or pick random thread asking for nerf)

    The point is we need to nerf this one specific boss because it's become unplayable to the point where multiple players on this very thread, including the OP, have mentioned how difficult it was for them, how some of them have given up as well, and this one specific boss is too difficult for some players. Had a guildie nearly quit the game before i told them how i beat that boss because it wasn't designed well. that's the issue. That guildie isn't on these forums, but they absolutely had a horrible time until i told them how to do it, and considering the earlier point about how people exist who don't go to the forums, reddit or read guides, it just seems the logic falls in place.

    You'll notice with the sous-chef mastery point, I actually commented on that thread and instead of suggesting it should be nerfed, I told everyone how i beat it and how there are other mastery points to be obtained and that there's also a surplus of mastery points within Path of Fire. I understand the nuance between 'something that's difficult and fine as it is' and 'something that is unfairly difficult and should be changed'. The optional sous-chef mastery point which i spent nearly an hour on before finally obtaining it, I never asked to nerf it. This boss, I am asking because it's not optional for the personal story, it's mandatory.

    As I said multiple time, I defend having some form of challenge in a game, and am very happy with new content being less casual, the root of the issue is that we don't agree on that.

    But having the breakbars extended by a couple of seconds still leaves the challenge in place. This is what I don't understand, the challenge is there, the path to making a player understand the mechanics is there, since the boss still needs to be interrupted before doing it's life stealing vortex, the amount the boss heals is still a ton, the amount of damage the boss does is the same. The fight isn't changed dramatically, everything is almost the same as it currently is, except there's more opportunity for players to use their ccs, something the game doesn't do enough to encourage players to deal with through personal story instances. It teaches players new things because the mechanics are the same, even as a veteran casual player, I see the value in this boss fight not being wholly redesigned, but this one change can bring a strong incentive for people to learn the mechanics because it helps encourage people by showing them a flashy bright blue bar for far longer than it currently is, and demands that the player asks "what is that and how do I deal with it?"

    The challenge would remain, but it becomes much more fair to all players.

    You defend your vision of the game, I defend mine. I do not believe in bringing down a game to the level of the most casual, and I do not accept to be called apathetic or any other rude word simply for enjoying another form or rewarding game.

    Never have I called you apathetic for simply enjoying a game with more challenge, I called you apathetic because you resist the very idea that other players can have a legitimately hard time with this one aspect of challenge and don't want the game to accommodate those players, instead calling them lazy. Twice.

    Here's the second time you used it btw.

    If it's about being lazy and impacting a game original vision because of it? Yes, totally apathetic.

    Whataboutism is disingenuous at best. If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. I won't engage with bad faith arguments.

  • Vanive.3804Vanive.3804 Member ✭✭
    edited October 3, 2017

    @Deihnyx.6318 said: but the fight itself is fine.

    That's based on the assumption that every player is geared with best in class gear and builds. No two characters are going to be exactly the same, and why should they need to be? I've been playing GW2 since pre-launch, as well as playing MMOs since the late 90's (UO, EQ, SWG ect) and I have seen my fair share of difficult and annoying mechanics, this is one of them.

    It's a broken mechanic, plain and simple. Some people will need to get Eater of Souls stuck in scenery to complete, that is not working as intended regardless of whether it was "easy" for you or not. Exploits to complete are not something developers strive for when creating content. Why should you care anyways? You have completed it. You have no reason to even be in this thread beyond trolling, move along please.

  • Seera.5916Seera.5916 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vanive.3804 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said: but the fight itself is fine.

    That's based on the assumption that every player is geared with best in class gear and builds. No two characters are going to be exactly the same, and why should they need to be? I've been playing GW2 since pre-launch, as well as playing MMOs since the late 90's (UO, EQ, SWG ect) and I have seen my fair share of difficult and annoying mechanics, this is one of them.

    It's a broken mechanic, plain and simple. Some people will need to get Eater of Souls stuck in scenery to complete, that is not working as intended regardless of whether it was "easy" for you or not. Exploits to complete are not something developers strive for when creating content. Why should you care anyways? You have completed it. You have no reason to even be in this thread beyond trolling, move along please.

    He has every right to post in this thread.

    And you're throwing completion of personal story out as a reason why? Doesn't make any sense, it's not like masteries where you can't repeat them. Ever since LS2, the instanced parts of story have been repeatable. This mission would qualify as a repeatable personal story. And even if it wasn't, people have multiple characters.

  • IvoryOwl.3275IvoryOwl.3275 Member ✭✭
    edited October 3, 2017

    I fought the Eater of Souls with a tanky, condition-based Druid and managed to win on my first attempt without dying. It took me a while to figure it out what to do and when I did the worst part was managing my pet to make sure we were both out of his reach when he was about to leech and heal. Basically, when he jumps, you dart the hell away so he doesn't have anything nearby to "suck" and regenerate. Its not a difficult fight, just a dragged one that requires some tactics. No nerf needed.

  • Seera.5916Seera.5916 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @Zaltys.7649 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:
    It's a L2P issue. You figured it out and that's great, but there's no reason to nerf it because some players can't figure it out first try. It doesn't mean they're less good or anything, simply that easy content for the sake of easy content only serves a category of people who want to faceroll everything without effort.

    I didn't think that it'd be necessary to say it, but... everyone plays MMORPGs for different reasons. Some enjoy combat, some don't. For some, combat is just a pointless roadblock that gets in the way of the enjoyable things: story, exploration, crafting, playing the market, etc.

    Here's a thought: what if the storyline had featured a difficult jump puzzle that you needed to complete to advance? And no help from mesmers. 'Get good at jumping, learn to play'. Do you think that everyone would've been happy with that? This is no different.

    Forcing everyone to 'get good' in something that they don't enjoy is never good for the game. Seen it happen numerous times over the decades: the 'casuals' quit, and the 'hardcore' players aren't enough to support further development.

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Manijin.3428 said:
    The content IS soloable for everyone. Just gotta learn how to do it.

    This is GW style stuff right here. If you think this one solo story instance is bad, I strongly recommend not playing GW1. Learning from your failures is part of getting better at the game, and I'm glad ANet has taken some steps over the years to encourage their player base to become more skilled. Yeah, it's frustrating sometimes, but the great thing about learning is that it opens up new horizons for your experience.

    I remember back when GW2 launched, and doing dungeons with undergeared, level-appropriate groups, before specializations, when people hadn't even unlocked their elite skills, etc. What the experience taught me was that 1) Dying was a natural part of the game experience, and 2) You needed to be flexible in your approach to solving problems. Now, at level 80 that all kinda fell apart, but those lessons stuck with me, so I've resisted all the calls to go pure Zerk, etc., because I learned early on that having survivability through traits and gear made the game MUCH more palatable, and really made it quite easy, but that you also can't go too tanky if you're doing solo content because it takes FOREVER.

    People just need to learn the game better, swap some stuff around, and find something works. If you're failing at a fight like this, it's possible you've been carried by some meta build that suddenly doesn't work anymore, or by a tanky build that lives through most content, but has numbed you to specific content that requires timelier counters. But GW has always been, since GW1, about being adaptable and flexible, so you just gotta adapt. Hopefully, you'll get past it, because the story really only gets better after this instance. :P

    There's being flexible and there's being completely unable to do soloable content. Sometimes it's a learn to play issue, this is not a learn to play issue, and I'm speaking as someone who has finished it. There are a thousand reasons why someone isn't as good at the game as you, and 'not being good enough' is only one of them, this needs to get nerfed to accommodate players who enjoy the solo content, because they can't even bring in friends to help, those friends are turned into useless wisps, and they can't even access their inventory as well, making the situation much harder than standard GW2 gameplay, and if i remember, gw1 was all about having a full party to complete everything, whereas this one situation in gw2, the only one like it, is now impossible for some because they can't do things they could regularly do in the rest of the game. While yes, that does require some adapting, you're asking people who are suddenly kitten in a couple of ways to further adapt to a boss that can fully heal itself if someone doesn't have the required cc, and in which having cc is the only solution to the problem, but the window in which to use that cc is extremely small for the maximum benefit.

    Sounds nothing like GW1 to me. People are having issues in a soloable experience, it needs to be looked at and nerfed. The most tasteful nerf I can think of is having that initial jumps breakbar be extended from a mere half a second to two or three seconds. That's all it would take to make the experience go from unplayable to manageable Because some people just have high ping or low fps based on things out of their control like what country they live in, but there's also things with disabilities too, people who just don't have a fast enough reaction time, and on top of that some classes will have a harder time with it too if they have longer cast times for ccs.

    How is that not a learn to play issue?
    Really, what are these "thousands reasons", what is it that makes new generation of gamers so unable to tolerate a single challenge?
    Strategies were given for pretty much ALL classes about how to do it, EVEN if you have difficulties (which you SHOULD at some point in a game), you can simply stay away from the boss whe he does his infamous jump attack. How, like... how, does that translate to "unable to do solo content"??
    If it was unplayable, nobody would manage it. There would be much more people asking for nerfs, and there wouldn't be many strategies about it, or people saying it wasn't that hard.
    It is because Anet constantly nerf everything worth little challenge in story that we get pugs in meta that have no idea how to do any mechanics of any boss.

    It's a game for everyone yes, but they have the entire core game, plus HoT, worth of easy content, and they have guides here and there, there is no excuse for asking for nerf not even a week after expansion release (it was started within the first week).

    And no, GW1 had nothing to do with this constant faceroll of story missions.
    Remember Augury Rock? Remember having to defeat your double? Remember the siege in Droknar with Confessor Dorian? Remember the fight with Varesh? The fight with Shiro? Remember that missions in Maguuma where you were fighting another team of white mantle ? All of that content could be done solo too.
    Everything needed to know some mechanics, and you couldn't change ANYTHING about your build once in the instance. Elite zones? If you wipes, you had to restart it all.

    And people were not complaining about every little challenge just about constantly.
    It baffles me that people don't realize how games in general have become increasingly easier, with checkpoint every 2 minutes and basically no need for strategy or anything, and STILL find a way to want it easier.

    Someone in Australia who has bad ping just due to distance from the server may not be able to break the bar fast enough with their ping.

    People with a physical disability that make the quick play next to impossible or even impossible.

    Older players whose hand eye coordination has started to go down as happens when we get older.

    • Australian raiders are a thing, and lots are pretty good at it. Not that it makes it easier for them, but it's doable and as said by many you can simply range this fight and have no timing issue.
    • Would affect hard content like raiding, but there are still strategies that doesn't require fast thinking, aoe that do CC and stuff, and again, ranging.
    • Adapting a build has nothing to do with ping, disability or slow reaction.

    Just so you know, It took me a bit to get the mechanics and I was doing most of the fight ranged, effectively ignoring the core mechanic... and it's definitely doable.

    Last I checked personal story wasn't supposed to be at the difficulty level of raids. So how about we just talk about the average player and the average player doesn't do raids.

    There's only so much one can adapt a build to fit your limitations. And its made worse by the restrictions in this mission that I've NEVER SEEN used in other places. A player who normally can melee or short range enemies and bosses and doesn't regularly do world bosses may not keep a ranged item in their inventory. Telling that person to go ranged for this mission is pointless because they can't open their bank or be able to pick up anything bought off of the trading post. And if they quit, they have to redo the fight with Balthazar.

    This specific comment about raid was just to say that the ping does not mean you can't do fights. Getting used to a higher ping will take some time to get used to it (I would know, I travel from the US to Europe often) but it's not undo-able.

    I also haven't said anything about the necessity to add a checkpoint. Maybe it'd be a good middle-ground solution, but the fight itself is fine.

    Yea, when looked at in a vacuum, the fight is fine. But given the restrictions on it and the fact that it's a 2nd major boss fight in the same personal story step, it's understandable why there is backlash with this fight but not for the boss before it. And I'd actually call the first fight harder (restricted area, tons of AOE's for that area).

  • Deihnyx.6318Deihnyx.6318 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2017

    I'm going to try my best merging most of these bits as you keep splitting them apart. Also skipped some parts because we're not in strong disagreement with these points. and it's getting out of hand.

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    except i pointed out there were people who don't read the forums at all, and your response was to talk about the people who do?
    See my confusion?
    [...]
    I mean, have you seen some of the stuff you've said? Especially when you'd rather assume that people are lazy rather than having an actual difficulty with the game. That, right there, is insulting people.
    [...]
    Why should we demand players be able to follow a guide for their class in order to beat this boss?
    [...]
    Having issues with a boss is normal. Having a personal story boss that's unbeatable for some people is not. That's the very core of this discussion.

    There are roughly 2 reactions to having difficulties with an encounter:

    • You struggle, look for advice, modify your build in consequence, retry
    • You ragequit and blame the game for it.
      The irony is that you refuse the fact that the second option can be happening here. There's nothing wrong with being casual, or not wanting to care about builds, learning mechanics and all, but then don't get all shocked if you can't get a fight right. I have no problem carrying people who are casual. In fact I've done it for this whole expansion and for most of the gryphon collection. Just don't pretend it's the game's fault is all I ask.

    Same reason we get topics complaining about pretty much every aspect of the game. Some people have specific issues and are blaming the game before even considering the fact that they're doing something wrong.
    Most people got through it, so maybe, just MAYBE consider the problem comes from you BEFORE asking for nerfing, is that too much to ask?

    Considered the problem, heavily, after talking to a few people about it. Still came to the forums because that was the most logical thing to do instead of leaving people to be unable to finish the story.
    [...]
    You never talked about a minority of people, but regardless, while the point may stand with regards to other games, it doesn't stand for this instance.
    [...]

    Meanwhile there are players who made a discord channel for raid training. These people are worth respect and are actually doing something positive that helps casuals AND veteran raiders alike.

    Yes, those people exist, but this conversation was never about them. Those people existing doesn't erase the toxic attitude some in the community have shown to sensible ideas, and vice versa.

    Allow people to have alternative ideas and would rather help people understanding the fight than nerfing it. I don't have to agree that nerfing is the best option. I do find a subcommunity like discord to be a much better option, as it brings vets and casuals together and helps them getting better.
    Again, I do not consider the unwillingness to learn to play a "game" issue. Another thread even has someone calling themselves bad (casual) who managed this fight.

    The point is we need to nerf this one specific boss because it's become unplayable to the point where multiple players on this very thread, including the OP, have mentioned how difficult it was for them, how some of them have given up as well, and this one specific boss is too difficult for some players. Had a guildie nearly quit the game before i told them how i beat that boss because it wasn't designed well. that's the issue. That guildie isn't on these forums, but they absolutely had a horrible time until i told them how to do it, and considering the earlier point about how people exist who don't go to the forums, reddit or read guides, it just seems the logic falls in place.

    I am sorry for your guildy. But I will say it again, instead on blaming it on the game, help them. You did that and they went through it. You might think having a hard time on a boss isn't normal, I think it is, even for a story instance. And yeah, maybe we have different backgrounds - my strongest being GW1 - but this wasn't the first time nor will it be the last in this franchise that we have to deal with above than average boss for a story. Better get better now and allow the game to experiment with more intelligent mechanics.

    You'll notice with the sous-chef mastery point, I actually commented on that thread and instead of suggesting it should be nerfed, I told everyone how i beat it and how there are other mastery points to be obtained and that there's also a surplus of mastery points within Path of Fire. I understand the nuance between 'something that's difficult and fine as it is' and 'something that is unfairly difficult and should be changed'. The optional sous-chef mastery point which i spent nearly an hour on before finally obtaining it, I never asked to nerf it. This boss, I am asking because it's not optional for the personal story, it's mandatory.

    Yeah, and pretty much the same arguments were thrown in that thread too "Not everyone can do it so let's nerf".
    I don't particulary care about this specific eater of soul, I care about the tendency to ask to nerf everything so long as there's one difficulty. If it wasn't a month later after many many people were still stuck, it would be another story. But this thread just like the other appeared a few days after release, which - to me- is another strong argument in favor of L2P.
    They get that nerfed, and then it'll be all about the chef, and then why not asking fractals, or raids nerf, and we're back to super vanilla casual GW.

    Never have I called you apathetic for simply enjoying a game with more challenge, I called you apathetic because you resist the very idea that other players can have a legitimately hard time with this one aspect of challenge and don't want the game to accommodate those players, instead calling them lazy. Twice.

    I resist to people who want to make the game easier without sincerely trying to get better first.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:
    There are roughly 2 reactions to having difficulties with an encounter:

    • You struggle, look for advice, modify your build in consequence, retry
    • You ragequit and blame the game for it.
      The irony is that you refuse the fact that the second option can be happening here. There's nothing wrong with being casual, or not wanting to care about builds, learning mechanics and all, but then don't get all shocked if you can't get a fight right. I have no problem carrying people who are casual. In fact I've done it for this whole expansion and for most of the gryphon collection. Just don't pretend it's the game's fault is all I ask.

    I've played and beaten the encounter, and as such understand the mechanics of it. And i'm telling you, as someone who isn't having a problem with it, there's a problem, a legitimate balance problem that needs to be addressed and a relevant nerf needs to be put in place.

    Are there cases where people simply are refusing to learn how to play? Yes, I wholly acknowledge that can and probably is happening to a certain extent. But there's no doubt in my mind that the vast majority of players who are having issues and can't beat the boss are doing it at their maximum capacity. If this was an optional side boss, I wouldn't be here having this discussion, because i understand the need for difficult and challenging content. And i've already suggested a nerf that fixes the issue while keeping the mechanics in place and doing very little to change the mechanics of the fight itself. As someone who isn't struggling with the boss and can defeat it easily, I'm saying there's a legitimate area of concern and that the boss needs to be nerfed.

    You also can't help people in this fight because party members are turned into useless spirits.

    Allow people to have alternative ideas and would rather help people understanding the fight than nerfing it. I don't have to agree that nerfing is the best option. I do find a subcommunity like discord to be a much better option, as it brings vets and casuals together and helps them getting better.
    Again, I do not consider the unwillingness to learn to play a "game" issue. Another thread even has someone calling themselves bad (casual) who managed this fight.

    You again keep ignoring an issue that I keep mentioning, some don't look outside of their own personal playspace and enjoy the game that way. Some people don't use discord, some don't look at the forums or reddit, some people don't look up guides. Explain how those people are supposed to cope with a fight they don't understand.
    I know you don't consider the unwillingness to learn to play a "game" issue. This is the biggest divide we have in our arguments, because there are people who do know how to play the game who are struggling on this boss because it's not properly balanced. I'm not talking about people refusing to learn to play the game, I never have. I am only talking about people who have a legitimate difficulty in defeating this required boss to progress through the personal story. If you don't believe those people exist, then we're done talking here because I have no time for people who don't care about others.

    I am sorry for your guildy. But I will say it again, instead on blaming it on the game, help them. You did that and they went through it. You might think having a hard time on a boss isn't normal, I think it is, even for a story instance. And yeah, maybe we have different backgrounds - my strongest being GW1 - but this wasn't the first time nor will it be the last in this franchise that we have to deal with above than average boss for a story. Better get better now and allow the game to experiment with more intelligent mechanics.

    I had to explain a poorly implemented mechanic (seriously, a half second breakbar? and no, i'm not talking about the swirling vortex of life steal, i'm talking about the one that happens right as/before it jumps) that I happened to come across by accident, that's the entire issue. A crucial mechanic that was poorly implemented makes the fight a lot harder than it necessarily needs to be. The rest you addressed partially below so I'll save it for then.

    Yeah, and pretty much the same arguments were thrown in that thread too "Not everyone can do it so let's nerf".
    I don't particulary care about this specific eater of soul, I care about the tendency to ask to nerf everything so long as there's one difficulty. If it wasn't a month later after many many people were still stuck, it would be another story. But this thread just like the other appeared a few days after release, which - to me- is another strong argument in favor of L2P.
    They get that nerfed, and then it'll be all about the chef, and then why not asking fractals, or raids nerf, and we're back to super vanilla casual GW.

    Holy slippery slope fallacy. But at last, we finally get to the core of the issue. You truly believe that fractals and raids will get nerfed eventually because this one legitimate problem in the personal story needs to be fixed?

    It's called a slippery slope fallacy for a reason.

    Side note: I mentioned above that I have no time for people who can't think of others, I refuse to change that response because I believe in keeping the integrity of the comment and not trying to alter it to make it look better (apart from necessary edits like the last post where i kept failing with quote editing), even though I'm writing this before i post it. I get the fear of the slippery slope you suggest will happen, so much so I won't address the last point because this is your primary concern and everything you've posted has been in relation to this.

    Considering that, I'd like to apologise for the sarcasm and rudeness. I completely misinterpreted what you were trying to get at, and as much as i'd like to pull out excuses about why those happened, your intention is absolutely clear to me now (and probably should have been clearer before, my bad). My mistake was that I'd interpreted your responses as the elitist jerk attitude of "nothing should ever change because I like it the way it is", where your actual concern was "if this is changed, what next". I feel there's a legitimate enough difference in those two stances, because I absolutely do not hold back with elitist jerks who only want "the privilege of accessing all the content there is, casuals be sent to the realm of torment and they should never have existed". A legitimate fear that nerfs here will eventually lead to nerfs everywhere, while a logical fallacy, is understandable.

    However, I wholly do not believe that nerfing this one single boss will lead to the trend of ruining fractals and raids. Mostly because of how the developers work on everything. As far as my knowledge goes, the devs responsible for raids and fractals balance and the devs responsible for personal story balance are two separate teams, with some overlap in perhaps art and lore (art being extremely broad termed, simplified for the sake of this convo). I truly believe that the devs won't make raids and fractals easier, because their intention from the very beginning of GW2 development was to have more difficult content. It started with dungeons. Obviously, those turned out to be a failure with people soloing explorable paths after a while, but the design intention from the beginning was to have dungeons be super difficult. So they introduced scalable fractals. Even T4 fractals weren't enough, so raids became a feature, and as far as I know, raids have really hit the mark in terms of appropriate difficulty and challenging mechanics that the hardcore community have been desiring. But fractals were still lacking, and as such they started adding challenge motes to the newest three fractals (or was it four, can't remember) to compensate for people who prefer fractals. While they've almost abandoned dungeons in terms of development, they've been focused on giving a hardcore experience in PvE alongside more casual experiences in open world and personal story, with some challenge for larger groups in terms of metas, and now bounties.

    Bounty tuning needs to happen, both in rewards and in the difficulty of the challenge as well, but in general metas have been made sort of as a bridge between casual and hardcore in terms of open world. Yes, they may not be map-wide metas, but they still are meta events, a chain of events that requires a large number of players to complete.

    To me, the devs have, through their actions, lived up to their intention of carving out a space for both casual and hardcore players, barring tuning that will definitely happen. I understand the fear that everything is going to get nerfed to hell, but so far it hasn't happened, in fact, with the newest fractals and their challenge motes, it seems they're completely aware and trying to get more difficult content in the game. So they are listening, they are making sure there's a space for all, and I think this will keep happening into the future.

    But this one nerf in the personal story, I think it's necessary. You pointed out that if these complaints popped up a couple of months from now, they'd be legitimate, but I actually believe they're just as legitimate now, because the vast majority of players who have purchased path of fire would have been playing since launch, and the vast majority of players experiencing the personal story would have run into this issue now, not months from now. For some, I agree it's a learn to play issue, and that they just need to give it another shot after looking up a guide or somewhat, but to most, I think there's a legitimate issue of balance and tuning here. The fight is manageable up until the half a second jump, the vortex is horrible and i'll forever have issues with it, but that half a second breakbar jump is key to stopping the whole thing. Many won't notice it. I didn't even notice it until i accidentally broke the breakbar, and then knew what to do. It's not entirely fair to assess this as just a learn to play issue, there's a degree of the devs messing up here, up to and including the fact that some are using exploits to finish the fight (having the boss get stuck in terrain or using necro minions to kill him while he stands and does nothing). While yes, some will always seek exploits to use, most won't unless they feel it's their only option. There's a necessary issue here, but I don't believe that it will explode into nerfing raids and 100 cm fractals to be soloable with autoattacks, since those are from different teams who have different goals.

    Whataboutism is disingenuous at best. If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. I won't engage with bad faith arguments.

  • Haishao.6851Haishao.6851 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2017

    @Zaltys.7649 said:

    @Haishao.6851 said:
    Ask someone to help you if you're so completely unable to.

    Did you not read the thread? Bringing in help only makes the battle harder, because everyone else gets turned into spirits. Which have useless abilities, but heal the eater.

    I did read the thread and completed that mission 3 times already.
    I was obviously not implying that you would be the one with the skills.

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Haishao.6851 said:
    Nothing can be soloable by everyone. There's always some people at the bottom who find everything too hard.
    Ask someone to help you if you're so completely unable to.

    First, they can make efforts to accommodate as many people as possible, currently they aren't doing that with this design iteration. I also love how you skipped analysing the suggestion and went straight into misinformed talking points.

    Second, as above, any friends you have join are useless spirits that can't help you in the souleater fight.

    Thirdly, I beat the fight on the first try and I have the mental capacity and empathy to realise many people won't be able to beat the boss at all as is and that needs to change.

    First, They already do accommodate as many people as possible. You're obviously not the target audience if you think they're not.
    Second, If you're already useless with all your skills, there's no point pretending you should be the one leading the mission. You join someone able to kill it and watch.
    Third, I have no empathy for people who constantly ask for everything to be nerfed. I have no problem helping people through stuff they're unable to. There's plenty of stuff I am unable to do myself either. But I hate people who ask everything to be brought down because they refuse to try harder or get help.

    "muh mental capacity "
    Many people are illiterate. Lets turn books into toddler image books to accommodate them?

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Haishao.6851 said:
    First, They already do accommodate as many people as possible. You're obviously not the target audience if you think they're not.

    Lol at that second part. This boss isn't accommodating to as many people as possible and that's why it needs to be nerfed.

    Second, If you're already useless with all your skills, there's no point pretending you should be the one leading the mission. You join someone able to kill it and watch.

    You were the one who suggested to bring along friends. The reality of that instance is that whoever doesn't own the instance doesn't have access to their skillbar, they're given a completely useless skillbar in which they can't actually help participate in the instance. Maybe that wasn't clear before, but that should be clearer now.

    Third, I have no empathy for people who constantly ask for everything to be nerfed. I have no problem helping people through stuff they're unable to. There's plenty of stuff I am unable to do myself either. But I hate people who ask everything to be brought down because they refuse to try harder or get help.

    "Everything". Lol. You can't even use your inventory in this instance. This instance is far from a normal scenario, and having one minor change, extending the breakbar from half a second to two seconds (no, not the life steal vortex, the half a second jump right before it) would make it playable to all while making sure the boss still has challenge. While you may refuse to believe it, the objective truth is that there's a balance issue that needs fixing.

    "muh mental capacity "
    Many people are illiterate. Lets turn books into toddler image books to accommodate them?

    I love the irony of these two statements being right next to each other, especially with the sarcasm just dripping from both.

    Whataboutism is disingenuous at best. If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. I won't engage with bad faith arguments.

  • Coulter.2315Coulter.2315 Member ✭✭✭

    Don't you just interupt him and he dies?

  • OK, I just completed this mission on a burnzerker with level 79 exotic carrion gear (on my cheapo secondary account). Although it went pretty quickly on my primary account/toon (pink viper), I was struggling a little with this character. Perhaps the following glitch that I stumbled upon will help somebody else.
    If you just want to get past this mission, this might work for you as it did for me. Actually very easy, zero special skill.

    Eater of Souls battle

    • Take a ranged weapon (doesn't require AOE, direct fire seems to work fine). I used a longbow.
    • Work around the backside of Joko's cage/prison.
    • Get the root that sticks out of the back of the cage between you and the Eater of Souls. When the Eater of Souls charges, it is blocked by the root.
    • Just stand there unmolested and range the boss down (shooting beneath the horizontal branch of the root) at your leisure. I don't know how hard it is to get the Eater of Souls blocked by the root like this, perhaps just my dumb luck.
      btw - Apologies if this repeats an earlier tip, I didn't read all 7 pages of comments. Somebody mentioned a similar glitch using AOE, but AOE is not needed using the root to block the boss.
  • Dondarrion.2748Dondarrion.2748 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bloodtau.4672 said:
    Can you perhaps tone it down a little? not to mention it being at the end of a painfully long story mission so I can't exactly quit tom get a party formed as it will take me another hour to get to this point.

    Resort to this thread and all the helpful replies from people of various classes who have beat this boss with few issues.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/3523/eater-of-souls-the-departed/p11

    Northerner @ Dragon Season
    Seafarer's Rest since launch!

  • Dondarrion.2748Dondarrion.2748 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sonic the Hedgehog.5169 said:
    If this soul Eater was a request by the community to add a Broodmother Mechanic from that Hero Point in this story as a good idea I say it was the worst idea, They kitten over Guardians as all we have is a wimpy staff to stay at long range from getting too close, Melee is a death sentence.

    Scepter?
    Other than that; I killed it up close on my guardian in melee.

    My Guardian is a shout Build and it gets survivability from Signates and Shouts, It took me freaken 30 days to get someone to help me with a Broodmother in a large group as a reaper because being to close and lack of range puts me in a bad position. Call me cheap but I am tired of spending a lot of gold on exotics and wasting a few mins of my time on swapping traits and skills for a build to pass something.

    So... bane signet to CC the Soul Eater when the breakbar appears? Think bane signet should completely break it; alternatively depending on your weapons; you can use Banish (hammer #4) or equip Hammer of Wisdom just for this fight. Don't be scared to experiment a bit with your skills and your build; it doesn't cost you gold at least.

    Northerner @ Dragon Season
    Seafarer's Rest since launch!

  • I found this easy but not through having any remarkable ability or brains. I was playing my mule which was not even equipped well and was recklessly face rolling the keyboard through all the story line. When I got to this boss I was shocked, how nasty! I had very little time as had to go out and the preamble was a tedious prospect to repeat. So I played it like I had heros from GW1 as I was on an Engineer.

    Was using a rifle. I placed the turret and supply crate strategically so the boss would be attracted to the turret and could not leach life from it. I used the flamethrower skills as necessary to pull the boss.

    Ran off and timed it so the turret and crate could be replenished as necessary. At about 5% I had to finish him off a bit more with flamethrower skills because he spammed invulnerable a lot.

    Got it done without stress.

    If I had done this on another char, I would have failed the first time as I'm not the most experienced player, I barely play and am ignorant of so much that has been made in the last few years. I used to be a good(ish) player in GW1 so was lucky to know about hero management.

  • Too difficult with my celestian guardian, and all class without burst I imagine.

  • @Sonic the Hedgehog.5169 said:
    Melees was doomed from the start when facing the Broodmother in HoT Hero Point, Reapers was at a disadvantage. Its bad game design to be forced to swap builds alll the dam time to beat something, If you want to encourage build swapping give use Profiles to save are setups for each battle. Its hard enough that it takes long to click everything.

    I just beat the Eater of Souls on my Reaper. All I did was swap out 2 of my 3 utility skills. I melee-ed the whole fight. When he sucks you toward him, just let it happen, but when he does the pounce on you to gain health again, use a big CC like Greatsword 5, Shroud 5, or the elite Reaper Shout. Between all that, just DPS hard.

    I am not sure, but I think it seemed to suck health less often when I was in Shroud form. Maybe he didn't use that skill at all whenever I was in shroud, but it might have been coincidence.

    I did notice that having a friend with me in this instance did not help much.. if anything it puts you at a disadvantage, because the boss can suck his health too if your tactic is based on trying to keep distance. Any friend you bring becomes a ball of light (Spirit Guardian) with only 3 skills: Might, Regeneration, and Vulnerability. They can only empower you, not actually fight alongside you.

  • Ellisande.5218Ellisande.5218 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2017

    @elrin.4750 said:
    Unfortunately, hard content/mechanic will always benefits the hardcore player or the casual who are natually good at games. I don't understand why ArenaNet just not use different modes:

    • Easy mode for those who just wants to go through the story
    • Normal mode for the way Anet designed it
    • Hard mode for those who live their life in GW2 (and award a cool gear, title or something )

    I bet this is not hard to implement, so why not just go with this.

    The extra challenge should be the reward. If those players really say that they want the game more challenging because they enjoy challenge, then the higher challenge is their reward. They shouldn't get an extra special reward just for taking on the challenge that they wanted. If they also demand an extra special reward then they were very clearly lying about wanting more challenge.

  • Vyrulisse.1246Vyrulisse.1246 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2017

    Well it's been nerfed. A real shame I think as such things only promote people not learning to play or learning mechanics. It's okay for story content to be challenging. Just because it's story mode doesn't mean you should faceroll everything on the first try. Some of the responses in this thread are truly disheartening to see.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vyrulisse.1246 said:
    Well it's been nerfed. A real shame I think as such things only promote people not learning to play or learning mechanics. It's okay for story content to be challenging. Just because it's story mode doesn't mean you should faceroll everything on the first try. Some of the responses in this thread are truly disheartening to see.

    Nobody should be surprised at this point that people want the story to be easy. Theyve nerfed every decently "challenging" boss in the story so that /everyone/ can do the story.

    In this case i think a nerf was needed(and yes i did it bymyself the first try, because condition ranger, though it absorbing health from my pet was annoying as hell), because you /cant/ bring people to assist you. In most other cases i would disagree with a nerf, but not here.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • Vyrulisse.1246Vyrulisse.1246 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Vyrulisse.1246 said:
    Well it's been nerfed. A real shame I think as such things only promote people not learning to play or learning mechanics. It's okay for story content to be challenging. Just because it's story mode doesn't mean you should faceroll everything on the first try. Some of the responses in this thread are truly disheartening to see.

    Nobody should be surprised at this point that people want the story to be easy. Theyve nerfed every decently "challenging" boss in the story so that /everyone/ can do the story.

    In this case i think a nerf was needed(and yes i did it bymyself the first try, because condition ranger, though it absorbing health from my pet was annoying as hell), because you /cant/ bring people to assist you. In most other cases i would disagree with a nerf, but not here.

    The only part of it I agree with is increasing the time his break bar is up, it was rather fast but that should have been the only nerf to this fight I think.

  • Noa.7490Noa.7490 Member ✭✭✭

    I had a bit of trouble with my ranger at first but then I tried something. Near Joko's prison there's an alcove with a stone arch. I got on top of the arch and as the Eater of Souls tried to get to me he got stuck in rocks while my pet was gnawing at his ankle. I simply had to pepper him with my arrows to finish him. Perhaps I got lucky, and I won't say you'll beat him like that too but it worked for me.

  • usnedward.9023usnedward.9023 Member ✭✭✭

    Think it was to fast of a nerf imo. Too hard...ok learn the cycle... again...imo

  • Evolute.6239Evolute.6239 Member ✭✭✭

    Took me one death to kill this thing in exotic gear. Whatever, it's nerfed now. It was a clear L2P issue but it doesn't effect me. Enjoy the faceroll boss I guess. Hope the final boss encounter isn't the next thing complained about.

  • @Vanive.3804 said:
    Yeah this fight as a thief is pissing me off. This is the first time in all the years (since pre-launch) I have played this game that I actually had to leave a quest for a breather. I can dodge all day, which builds, which weapons, but some how he zeroes in on me within seconds of getting his bar below 80% leaving me with no way to escape. Currently I'm looking for a way to get him stuck in the scenery so I can finish it. If that considered an exploit, so be it. This fight is obviously built for specific classes which may have an easier time with it. Most of the posts I have read where they stated it was "easy" aren't playing on a thief. You can't even access your inventory to get to your bank to grab different gear. If you go in with the wrong stuff, you just wasted 45min of your life.

    To those spewing their toxic BS about L2P, realize not every class is the same, not all classes are geared the same. Based on some of the help posts i have seen some of you folks post; you may have to exploit the game to get the quest completed. Regardless of what you think any developer would say this is a broken mechanic; I don't GAF if you agree or not. If you can not use a boost/buff, the help of others and need to break the game to finish what is considered solo content, then it is broken.

    I think Thiefs should be able to use sword and then jump at him with sword 2 when he jumps at you so the immobilize breaks his breakbar. Wanted to do the story on Thief soon anyway so guess I'll find out when I reach that point.

  • Ahlen.7591Ahlen.7591 Member ✭✭✭

    You don't have to actually break the bar you know, just roll away. Also do more than 1000 DPS and you'll be fine.

  • @Vyrulisse.1246 said:
    Well it's been nerfed. A real shame I think as such things only promote people not learning to play or learning mechanics. It's okay for story content to be challenging. Just because it's story mode doesn't mean you should faceroll everything on the first try. Some of the responses in this thread are truly disheartening to see.

    They did? aww.

    Sucks that people got stuck on it. but I loved how getting to know his pattern and noticing his breakbar opening up for a split second gave me a great feeling of accomplishment.

  • pah.4931pah.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Story Chapter—The Departing: Drastically decreased the amount of health the Eater of Souls can steal.
    Story Chapter—The Departing: Increased the duration the defiance bar is vulnerable on the Eater of Souls's leap attack.
    Story Chapter—The Departing: Removed the Eater of Souls's ability to steal health from pets and minions.

    I think that bolded line (emphasis my own) was absolutely necessary. It prevented people from playing builds they may have been playing since launch ... and it was confusing as to why the EoS was still life stealing even when the player was dodging correctly.

  • Rauderi.8706Rauderi.8706 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @pah.4931 said:
    Story Chapter—The Departing: Drastically decreased the amount of health the Eater of Souls can steal.
    Story Chapter—The Departing: Increased the duration the defiance bar is vulnerable on the Eater of Souls's leap attack.
    Story Chapter—The Departing: Removed the Eater of Souls's ability to steal health from pets and minions.

    I think that bolded line (emphasis my own) was absolutely necessary. It prevented people from playing builds they may have been playing since launch ... and it was confusing as to why the EoS was still life stealing even when the player was dodging correctly.

    Glad to see they fixed the fight. Especially that last part.

    Many alts! Handle it!

    "A condescending answer might as well not be an answer at all."
    -Eloc Freidon.5692

  • James.1032James.1032 Member ✭✭

    no tea no shade, but this boss melted on my zerker weaver ele pre-nerf so judging by how many people struggled on this boss (who I completely forgot about because it was so easy) I must be amazing at this game

  • just use ranged weopen at max rang don't get near him all classes have a ranged weopen

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stephen.1207 said:
    just use ranged weopen at max rang don't get near him all classes have a ranged weopen

    Not all of them are decent however, and even using ranger shortbow he is able to jump to you, so his leap is pretty long.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • DirtyDan.4759DirtyDan.4759 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2017

    @elrin.4750 said:
    Unfortunately, hard content/mechanic will always benefits the hardcore player or the casual who are natually good at games. I don't understand why ArenaNet just not use different modes:

    • Easy mode for those who just wants to go through the story
    • Normal mode for the way Anet designed it
    • Hard mode for those who live their life in GW2 (and award a cool gear, title or something )

    I bet this is not hard to implement, so why not just go with this.

    Or use your brain and think about what the boss is doing. He charges you so dodge. He heals himself from enemies at close range so go range.

    @Sonic the Hedgehog.5169 said:

    If this soul Eater was a request by the community to add a Broodmother Mechanic from that Hero Point in this story as a good idea I say it was the worst idea, They kitten over Guardians as all we have is a wimpy staff to stay at long range from getting too close, Melee is a death sentence.

    Dragonhunters have access to a ranged weapon called longbow. It is good to keep distance to enemies fighting at close range. Scepter has the same benefits.

  • I think this fight should be changed for a couple of reasons.
    1. By removing friends from the story by polymorphing them and preventing them from aiding you, it goes against the fundamental theme of the game, which is cooperative play. I only ever play with my spouse and best friends,m and in a long, epic story instance like this, it's frustrating when only one of us can do something. Friends need to be able to participate. When they can't it lessens the fun for everyone.
    2. The Balthazaar fight was fun and epic and complex. This was punishing and simple. The former is a blast (literally), but the latter isn't fun on any level. At some point, all your gear breaks and the self-healing outweighs the damage you can do. In a fight where others can't participate, you shouldn't have to be super well geared to get past it, ESPECIALLY in the main story. Additionally, the story is decent, but the chapters should be broken up, because it drags. I don't have hours on end to dedicate to a single chapter of gameplay, and what little I can dedicate I want to spend with my friends. This fight is punishing, overly difficult, and plain not fun. I like the mechanics behind it, but some changes need to be made. Otherwise, I may just drop the story altogether, which is a tragedy, because I brag all over this game to people irl about the story and the gameplay and accessibility.
    In short, this fight goes against everything the game's story mode should be, and that's why I hate it.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Safire.1736 said:
    I think this fight should be changed for a couple of reasons.
    1. By removing friends from the story by polymorphing them and preventing them from aiding you, it goes against the fundamental theme of the game, which is cooperative play. I only ever play with my spouse and best friends,m and in a long, epic story instance like this, it's frustrating when only one of us can do something. Friends need to be able to participate. When they can't it lessens the fun for everyone.
    2. The Balthazaar fight was fun and epic and complex. This was punishing and simple. The former is a blast (literally), but the latter isn't fun on any level. At some point, all your gear breaks and the self-healing outweighs the damage you can do. In a fight where others can't participate, you shouldn't have to be super well geared to get past it, ESPECIALLY in the main story. Additionally, the story is decent, but the chapters should be broken up, because it drags. I don't have hours on end to dedicate to a single chapter of gameplay, and what little I can dedicate I want to spend with my friends. This fight is punishing, overly difficult, and plain not fun. I like the mechanics behind it, but some changes need to be made. Otherwise, I may just drop the story altogether, which is a tragedy, because I brag all over this game to people irl about the story and the gameplay and accessibility.
    In short, this fight goes against everything the game's story mode should be, and that's why I hate it.

    Have you tried it post nerf? It's much more reasonable now.

    Whataboutism is disingenuous at best. If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. I won't engage with bad faith arguments.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vyrulisse.1246 said:
    Well it's been nerfed. A real shame I think as such things only promote people not learning to play or learning mechanics. It's okay for story content to be challenging. Just because it's story mode doesn't mean you should faceroll everything on the first try. Some of the responses in this thread are truly disheartening to see.

    2 simple questions:
    what is the purpose of a STORY?
    how do you measure the success/failure of said story?
    drowning the story in annoying mechanics/mobs actually makes the story less effective, as it diverts attention from said story
    if i want story , i go to the media that were made for them..books , movies etc
    furthermore , the story is so far out, that the cheesiest star trek episode would blush

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Vyrulisse.1246 said:
    Well it's been nerfed. A real shame I think as such things only promote people not learning to play or learning mechanics. It's okay for story content to be challenging. Just because it's story mode doesn't mean you should faceroll everything on the first try. Some of the responses in this thread are truly disheartening to see.

    2 simple questions:
    what is the purpose of a STORY?
    how do you measure the success/failure of said story?
    drowning the story in annoying mechanics/mobs actually makes the story less effective, as it diverts attention from said story
    if i want story , i go to the media that were made for them..books , movies etc
    furthermore , the story is so far out, that the cheesiest star trek episode would blush

    Easy answer: if the boss fight is too easy then the story being the player character fighting his way back to become alive becomes irrelevant.

    You said it yourself, if you want story you are going out of your way to watch a movie or whatever. Here we are not watching a movie, we are playing a game with active combat and specific mechanics that are soooo easy to execute because every professions share the same core mechanics and utilities that are necessary to kill the death eater.

    Furthermore, I am wondering. If it is not in open world (HoT complains), nor in fractal (fractal observatory complains), nor in raids to some extent (easy mode requests), nor in personal story, at what point should a solo player get accustomed to simple mechanics to make fights more interesting than easy core gameplay ?

  • Liewec.2896Liewec.2896 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2017

    the only trouble i had was with that darn sucky attack were he gains back pretty much all of his HP,
    as a reaper MM i found that killing both elder dragons and the god of war was easy peasy,
    killing this guy took me about 20 minutes and a few near deaths!

  • GWMO.4785GWMO.4785 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bloodtau.4672 said:
    Can you perhaps tone it down a little? not to mention it being at the end of a painfully long story mission so I can't exactly quit tom get a party formed as it will take me another hour to get to this point.

    I first tought that you where being sarcastic here, but reading further more comments.. people are quite serious.... how even? This is literately the same mob: the mouth of zhaitan from the main story, and mechanics are more less the same. His attacks are slow and does low/decent damage. How can you struggle with that? I was dancing circles around him.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2017

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    Have you tried it post nerf? It's much more reasonable now.

    "Reasonable"? It's lame, and it's making me a bit angry that people rather have it that simple than learn to play their profession(s) properly. :(

    P.S. It's not even the profession play, it's GW2's gameplay basics that seem to cause some people difficulty, which is completely beyond me.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    Have you tried it post nerf? It's much more reasonable now.

    "Reasonable"? It's lame, and it's making me a bit angry that people rather have it that simple than learn to play their profession(s) properly. :(

    P.S. It's not even the profession play, it's GW2's gameplay basics that seem to cause some people difficulty, which is completely beyond me.

    It is reasonable now, because before the life steal would steal health from minions, pets, illusions etc. which you can't control directly. While minionmancer is simply one build, all non-soulbeast ranger builds have pets (and every pet is melee I think) and every mesmer build involves illusions and is more efficient with illusions, not only that, but shatters force illusions to run into melee of the target, so even if you're loaded out with greatsword or staff illusions, they'll still run face first into eater of souls which would steal their health.

    Secondly, it's reasonable now because one of the key mechanics in preventing the eater of souls from life stealing was a half second leap with a breakbar on it that barely registers on the screen. That leap is now maybe 2 seconds long with the breakbar lasting 3, maybe 4. While three thousand people have mentioned simply running away and dodging, the eater of souls still does a pull that if you're not super far away or are using a mid ranged weapon, you get pulled into the area of effect for what will become the lifesteal. Not enough enemies really make being CCed super dangerous enough to warrant carrying a stunbreak or stability at all times so it's understandable that some people simply won't carry one. However the eater of souls does multiple pulls so even if you did have a stunbreak and used it, you could immediately be pulled again.

    I don't agree with how much the lifesteal was reduced by, I think it would have worked better to keep the lifesteal amount high, but regardless that's the change now.

    But yes, it went from being unfair to reasonable, because now it actually has room to let people learn the mechanics instead of banging their head against a wall about not even knowing that the leap can be interrupted, preventing the life steal from happening in the first place, and even if they messed up the life steal, their minions/pets/illusions etc. wouldn't superheal the eater of souls like it could previously. For those not using meta builds/gear or those new(er) to the game, it's now manageable and reasonable to ask them to tackle this boss. Just cause you run around super effective against everything doesn't mean every player is.

    Whataboutism is disingenuous at best. If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. I won't engage with bad faith arguments.

  • Zaltys.7649Zaltys.7649 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2017

    @GWMO.4785 said:
    I first tought that you where being sarcastic here, but reading further more comments.. people are quite serious.... how even? This is literately the same mob: the mouth of zhaitan from the main story, and mechanics are more less the same. His attacks are slow and does low/decent damage. How can you struggle with that? I was dancing circles around him.

    The Eater was majorly nerfed in recent patches, so you should probably ignore the first six pages of this thread.

    Personally, I think they made it too easy now. Not leeching health from pets and such anymore is good, but they didn't need to lower the drain so much. It's barely noticeable now even if you facetank him, definitely easier than any of the primeval bosses.

  • GWMO.4785GWMO.4785 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zaltys.7649 said:
    The Eater was majorly nerfed in recent patches, so you should probably ignore the first six pages of this thread.

    Personally, I think they made it too easy now. Not leeching health from pets and such anymore is good, but they didn't need to lower the drain so much. It's barely noticeable now even if you facetank him, definitely easier than any of the primeval bosses.

    I did that after the first 2 or 3 days after pof release. So before the nerf. Was a piece of cake

  • Puma.3645Puma.3645 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 27, 2019

    --removed-

  • Rhanoa.3960Rhanoa.3960 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2017

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    Have you tried it post nerf? It's much more reasonable now.

    "Reasonable"? It's lame, and it's making me a bit angry that people rather have it that simple than learn to play their profession(s) properly. :(

    P.S. It's not even the profession play, it's GW2's gameplay basics that seem to cause some people difficulty, which is completely beyond me.

    It is reasonable now, because before the life steal would steal health from minions, pets, illusions etc. which you can't control directly. While minionmancer is simply one build, all non-soulbeast ranger builds have pets (and every pet is melee I think) and every mesmer build involves illusions and is more efficient with illusions, not only that, but shatters force illusions to run into melee of the target, so even if you're loaded out with greatsword or staff illusions, they'll still run face first into eater of souls which would steal their health.

    Secondly, it's reasonable now because one of the key mechanics in preventing the eater of souls from life stealing was a half second leap with a breakbar on it that barely registers on the screen. That leap is now maybe 2 seconds long with the breakbar lasting 3, maybe 4. While three thousand people have mentioned simply running away and dodging, the eater of souls still does a pull that if you're not super far away or are using a mid ranged weapon, you get pulled into the area of effect for what will become the lifesteal. Not enough enemies really make being CCed super dangerous enough to warrant carrying a stunbreak or stability at all times so it's understandable that some people simply won't carry one. However the eater of souls does multiple pulls so even if you did have a stunbreak and used it, you could immediately be pulled again.

    I don't agree with how much the lifesteal was reduced by, I think it would have worked better to keep the lifesteal amount high, but regardless that's the change now.

    But yes, it went from being unfair to reasonable, because now it actually has room to let people learn the mechanics instead of banging their head against a wall about not even knowing that the leap can be interrupted, preventing the life steal from happening in the first place, and even if they messed up the life steal, their minions/pets/illusions etc. wouldn't superheal the eater of souls like it could previously. For those not using meta builds/gear or those new(er) to the game, it's now manageable and reasonable to ask them to tackle this boss. Just cause you run around super effective against everything doesn't mean every player is.

    It's nothing more than a situational fight and you had to adjust your playstyle and this is far from being unfair. What is unfair are folks who think they have tried when they actually didn't. The fight was easy at first and a joke now. ANET didn't have to accomidate others when others should make their own accommodation.

    The game does not penelize or punish you for adjusting your build as needed.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2017

    @Rhanoa.3960 said:
    It's nothing more than a situational fight and you had to adjust your playstyle and this is far from being unfair. What is unfair are folks who think they have tried when they actually didn't. The fight was easy at first and a joke now. ANET didn't have to accomidate others when others should make their own accommodation.

    The game does not penelize or punish you for adjusting your build as needed.

    First of all, that's entirely not the case, just because you're good at something doesn't mean other people wouldn't have difficulties with it. Get out of the mindset that all players must play like you otherwise "they aren't trying". It is a toxic attitude and the entire gaming community at large needs to drop toxic attitudes such as this.

    Secondly, it has become apparent (through my own personal experience etc.) that depending on the game connection and the type of computer played on, The very speed of the game can vary, meaning what's 2 seconds to one player is one second to another player in certain instances. I've been presented a video of a pre-nerf fight, where the eater of souls leap breakbar lats 1.42 seconds. The experience I had was a breakbar that flashed for less than a second, with a leap animation that seemed to have been sped up unnaturally. So there's more elements than simply 'experience' at play here. I only have anecdote to go on at the moment, especially because I no longer have access to the circumstances that I first played the instance in, but there is something that's not making sense about how the same instance can have wildly varying speeds depending on computer spec, ping and i'm sure other aspects. Some sort of experiment is required here, and I believe experimentation beyond simply using a vpn is necessary.

    Not ready to file a bug report or anything of the like just yet, as I can't quite go back and forth across two continents to test this out, but it's something that I feel everyone should possibly be aware of, especially with regards to the eater of souls, as that has the most drama at the moment.

    EDIT: grammar.

    Whataboutism is disingenuous at best. If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. I won't engage with bad faith arguments.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2017

    @flog.3485 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Vyrulisse.1246 said:
    Well it's been nerfed. A real shame I think as such things only promote people not learning to play or learning mechanics. It's okay for story content to be challenging. Just because it's story mode doesn't mean you should faceroll everything on the first try. Some of the responses in this thread are truly disheartening to see.

    2 simple questions:
    what is the purpose of a STORY?
    how do you measure the success/failure of said story?
    drowning the story in annoying mechanics/mobs actually makes the story less effective, as it diverts attention from said story
    if i want story , i go to the media that were made for them..books , movies etc
    furthermore , the story is so far out, that the cheesiest star trek episode would blush

    Easy answer: if the boss fight is too easy then the story being the player character fighting his way back to become alive becomes irrelevant.

    You said it yourself, if you want story you are going out of your way to watch a movie or whatever. Here we are not watching a movie, we are playing a game with active combat and specific mechanics that are soooo easy to execute because every professions share the same core mechanics and utilities that are necessary to kill the death eater.

    Furthermore, I am wondering. If it is not in open world (HoT complains), nor in fractal (fractal observatory complains), nor in raids to some extent (easy mode requests), nor in personal story, at what point should a solo player get accustomed to simple mechanics to make fights more interesting than easy core gameplay ?

    you mentioned different ways to experience a story..not the purpose of it

    furthermore, easy is subjective..we are different persons with different skills and motivations

    AFAIK PoF only sold 200k copies, that shows the effects of this mentality
    i can do most of the open world stuff , but these stories are huge difficulty spikes and disrupting a smooth experience
    keep the hardcore stuff where it belongs
    im playing in tyria on my 6th year, and i havent completed a story chapter since zhaitan
    every effing story they go full horde mode
    just tried one of the older stories..my warrior and a npc against 30+ flame legions on a tiny map
    they just rush me and kill me
    try to dodge...out of instance
    GG anet