Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Character Progression 2.0


Recommended Posts

I'm posting this thread, because I want to reflect back with it, what has been improved in regard of this topic, since Heart of Thorns put some focus onto this aspect of the game, and where I think, there is still potential to make those improvements even better, because Character Progression is nothing, that is done simply with a few features being added.Character Progression is an ever ongoing aspect of a game like Guild Wars 2 - one that is very important to keep actualized and constantly enhanced in its content, comfort/QoL and functionality within the game.

To me, the games isn't making currently full usage of the whole potential there lies in the Character Progression. Yes, ANet added Masteries and Elite Specializations with HoT - but is this really everything ANet can doe for making character progression in GW2 an awesome player experience? I say no!

To be honest, there is alot more, what could be done in this game and to make the mechanics that we have already in an overhauled way together better, than how the single mechanics in itself are now for themself alone not as good, than how they could be, if all the various mechanics would be reworked to be in harmony with each other more to create one important thing, that I'm personalyl missing alot in this game's character progression, where GW2 is lacking in - Structure!!

So, what are the elements GW2 has, which are part of the Character Progression GW2 has so far?:

  • Leveling Process 1-80
  • Attributes
  • Skills
  • Traits
  • Specializations
  • Masteries

Now the big key question:

How can all this be simplified and be brought at the same time more into harmony within each other to create a new character progression structure, which feels like being one core mechanic where all of its elements are designed around each other and not like where all of these elements are not really connected all to each other.

The answer is very simple - Make everything based on just only Masteries and restructure the game system based on this change!!

What would change?

  • Removal of Leveling from 1 to 80!! You now have to learn Masteries only
  • Attributes not being linked to Gear anymore, but just as part of your natural Mastery based Character Progression! over the time that you play the Game.
  • Skills not be linked to the Leveling Process but now instead part of your Character learning new Masteries unter the new Mastery Structure
  • Traits being split up into active and passive Traits, being called now Abilities (Active effects of Combat Mechanics) and Talents (passive effects of Combat Mechanics) for on land as like underwater seperately within the new Mastery Structure that can now differentiate between Land and Underwater Masteries as two different categories.
  • Specializations become now integrated part of the Mastery System, being significantly improved character progression that becoems now independent of Traits and part of real Character Progression, instead of just only a "Build Choice"
  • Masteries in itself become under the new overworked Structure more diversive.

How does this new Mastery Structure look like for Character Progression 2.0?

Masteries wil lget restructured for this process of improving the Character progression in GW2.At the moment this Games mastery System has only the simple minded Structure of just only Masteries based after "Continental Regions". But is this already everything Anet could really do with a feature like this? I don't think so - and with this restructurign you will truly realize all, how much more potential there lies in this feature, and how it could be used to make the Character Progression in this game a far much more outstanding gaming experience, never seen ever before in any other MMORPG in this kind of detail, without being in the end way too overcomplex, due to the structures being very easy to understand.

Instead of focusing the structure of masteries only on continental regions, ANet shold focus on reworking the Mastery System by design to be based around "Gameplay Aspects" which are part of this game and the character's progression in a multitude of different ways by changign these continental region based Masteries into alot of various Mastery Categories among the new structure, categories like:

  • Combat Masteries
  • Exploration Masteries
  • Mobility Masteries
  • Attribute Masteries
  • Knowledge Masteries
  • Specialization Masteries
  • Crafting Masteries
  • Guild Masteries
  • Character Masteries
  • Social Masteries
  • Fashion Style Masteries
  • Class Masteries
  • Trade Masteries
    • Housing Masteries (for Player Housing as replacement feature of the Mastery System)

This is so far only food for thought. Tomorrow I'll continue on this thread and will go more into details, cause I've now sadly not the time for this to go enough into everything.Just want to say, that compared to this, does feel the current Mastery System like only a tiny fraction of what the Mastery System could potentially be more in my opinion, where everything feels being more connected to each other under one big game lead mechanic, instead of like a douzen small and different mechanics with different concepts and connectivities which don't belong all together more or less.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 64
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Although I fully agree that progression should be made simpler, I also think this idea needs some tweaking. I do not think that removing levels is a great plan. The simple reason is that people who just start the game will expect it. Throwing masteries at them from the start would be too hard for new players. If it needs to run to level 80? I doubt it. I think the choices one can make should be presented earlier. It would help both sales and expectations. I think level 40 is. great point for max level. If you have F2P you can only progress normally, but when you own the expansions (or buy them as it is promoted in game as options) you can then take side tours.

A system like this should be good for both new and existing players. Allow people to skip stuff is great. Also think about implementation time, what to do with birthday scrolls and insta 80 boosters?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Orpheal.8263" said:I'm posting this thread, because I want to reflect back with it, what has been improved in regard of this topic, since Heart of Thorns put some focus onto this aspect of the game, and where I think, there is still potential to make those improvements even better, because Character Progression is nothing, that is done simply with a few features being added.Character Progression is an ever ongoing aspect of a game like Guild Wars 2 - one that is very important to keep actualized and constantly enhanced in its content, comfort/QoL and functionality within the game.

To me, the games isn't making currently full usage of the whole potential there lies in the Character Progression. Yes, ANet added Masteries and Elite Specializations with HoT - but is this really everything ANet can doe for making character progression in GW2 an awesome player experience? I say no!

To be honest, there is alot more, what could be done in this game and to make the mechanics that we have already in an overhauled way together better, than how the single mechanics in itself are now for themself alone not as good, than how they could be, if all the various mechanics would be reworked to be in harmony with each other more to create one important thing, that I'm personalyl missing alot in this game's character progression, where GW2 is lacking in - Structure!!

So, what are the elements GW2 has, which are part of the Character Progression GW2 has so far?:

  • Leveling Process 1-80
  • Attributes
  • Skills
  • Traits
  • Specializations
  • Masteries

Now the big key question:

How can all this be simplified and be brought at the same time more into harmony within each other to create a new character progression structure, which feels like being one core mechanic where all of its elements are designed around each other and not like where all of these elements are not really connected all to each other.

The answer is very simple - Make everything based on just only Masteries and restructure the game system based on this change!!

What would change?

  • Removal of Leveling from 1 to 80!! You now have to learn Masteries only
  • Attributes not being linked to Gear anymore, but just as part of your natural Mastery based Character Progression! over the time that you play the Game.
  • Skills not be linked to the Leveling Process but now instead part of your Character learning new Masteries unter the new Mastery Structure
  • Traits being split up into active and passive Traits, being called now Abilities (Active effects of Combat Mechanics) and Talents (passive effects of Combat Mechanics) for on land as like underwater seperately within the new Mastery Structure that can now differentiate between Land and Underwater Masteries as two different categories.
  • Specializations become now integrated part of the Mastery System, being significantly improved character progression that becoems now independent of Traits and part of real Character Progression, instead of just only a "Build Choice"
  • Masteries in itself become under the new overworked Structure more diversive.

How does this new Mastery Structure look like for Character Progression 2.0?

Masteries wil lget restructured for this process of improving the Character progression in GW2.At the moment this Games mastery System has only the simple minded Structure of just only Masteries based after "Continental Regions". But is this already everything Anet could really do with a feature like this? I don't think so - and with this restructurign you will truly realize all, how much more potential there lies in this feature, and how it could be used to make the Character Progression in this game a far much more outstanding gaming experience, never seen ever before in any other MMORPG in this kind of detail, without being in the end way too overcomplex, due to the structures being very easy to understand.

Instead of focusing the structure of masteries only on continental regions, ANet shold focus on reworking the Mastery System by design to be based around "Gameplay Aspects" which are part of this game and the character's progression in a multitude of different ways by changign these continental region based Masteries into alot of various Mastery Categories among the new structure, categories like:

  • Combat Masteries
  • Exploration Masteries
  • Mobility Masteries
  • Attribute Masteries
  • Knowledge Masteries
  • Specialization Masteries
  • Crafting Masteries
  • Guild Masteries
  • Character Masteries
  • Social Masteries
  • and more

This is so far only food for thought. Tomorrow I'll continue on this thread and will go more into details, cause I've now sadly not the time for this to go enough into everything.Just want to say, that compared to this, does feel the current Mastery System like only a tiny fraction of what the Mastery System could potentially be more in my opinion, where everything feels being more connected to each other under one big game lead mechanic, instead of like a douzen small and different mechanics with different concepts and connectivities which don't belong all together more or less.

You forgot secondery classes if you learned ranger spec on one char mastery it should be usable on all. free the skills end the class enforcement

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1) Can't happen... There's this chunk of population known as "very old core only players and free to players". Those can't use masteries. That's just point one. Masteries are deeply embeded into the expansions, would require a lot of leg-work to remove levels, move everything to masteries and keep them as they are.

2) Skills and specializations linked to masteries would mean automatic max level alt characters. Or something like FFIV, which isn't really this game's objective.

3) Your proposal is basically removing masteries and renaming levels, except that because masteries have double requirements (exp and mastery points) it would just make it worse.

4) All these changes would require the addition of a bajillion mastery points to the game, a enormous overhaul to the game's systems to basically rename levels... See how it doesn't really make sense, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, just no, it's way to late in the game for that big of an overhaul...and really, to be honest there isn't that much lacking in structure(as you call it) in the current format...actually, what you've outlined is just changing names for the same ideas basically. Also, mechanics are related to game play, where as character progression has nothing to do with game play, unless you want to change what mechanics refer to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"battledrone.8315" said:an mmo without levelling? lol..i would like to see them tryit will fall so flat on its face, that it will contaminate the surrounding area with fallout for decades

It would still have leveling. Mastery leveling. But instead of having a "global level" you have more like a local progression which you are free to choose in which order you like to do it. And that it may worked is proven by ... well GW2, because that is what you are doing after level 80. Just imagine that you start with it at level 1.

To Topic:

I completly and 100% agree with this idea!

I just dont think that it can be included into GW2, as a whole game, code and mechanics have to be rewritten to make it work. So a whole lot of working time for Anet is used o create something that does not have any real result (meaning new content). Because we have to be honest, not many people will come back to play the game just because the leveling system is overwholed when their is no new content.

So I think if they are really overwholing the whole system like that they also should do the consequent step and implemend it into Guild Wars 3.

The thing about the mastery system that I really liked the idea of (but sadly is already forgotten by Anet) is that it is not only a progression system that keeps you playing but also also connects said progression with the lore and world of Tyria. The culmination of this process was the legendary journey, where you were rewarded with a (precursor of a) legendary weapon which was legendary not only because its tooltip said so, but also because you had to go on a epic quest to research and master ancient magic to create it.

So I really hope that in that hypothetical GW3 the central point of gameplay are these masteries which represent journeys your character undertakes to grow in strength, learn a new Specialisation, master their crafting skill and crafting legendary equipment and acquiring tousands of other skill which may be useful in the future. As for the implementation I suggest to let the Masteries work quite similiar but instead of having some arbitary Hero or Mastery Points I would connect them to an Questline. So to level Up a Mastery you need to perform a series of taskes which explain ingame why you have aquired this new ability (Finding the Glider for the Gliding Mastery e.g. or doing something for a teacher to let him teach you stuff about your profession) and acquiring some exp (to reward events etc). Some task/events or similiar things may give you bonus exp for a certain Masteryline. For example I could imagine that crafting Swords will always give you some extra - exp for the Blacksmith Mastery while finding an ancient druid ghost will reward you with a big boost for your druid specialisation mastery (if you have the right profession of course).

That would also nicely connect to the background story at the character creation. So instead of only having a slightly different story in the first 10 level, your character may already start with a set of (not fully level up) masteries depending on your profession/race and background story. A human noble with an canthian background may already have unlocked the first two tiers of the cantha language mastery, which allows him to read basic cantha language and get some goods from cantha merchants cheaper. A human peasant must find a teacher first to acquire the same skill but already starts with two tier of the farming mastery unlocked which allows him to better spot ressource nods etc.

That would allow for the different parts of the game to more interact with each other better, which for itself will lead to an more round gaming experience.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find it funny to see, that despite me having not written yet any word about it, how I'd like to realize this concept, most people just look always negatively on the idea and think about it, as if everything is impossible, too late, would fail, can't happen, adds no new content ect. pp.. and all this typical nay sayings which search always only for the negative things, instead to view first onto the things in an open minded way of "what if ..." because searching for the negative thigns can you do still, once I've had at least the chance to describe the concept a bit more in detail to make the idea in itself a bit better understandable, because it is easy to be always against everything, as long you don't even know the details yet - this typical flair of ANGST of change...ooooh changes -bad oO oh please no changes, they coudl even lead to a better game, if we could for once throw our permanent angsts from changes in a game over board /sarcasm ;)

Nothing is ever too late.. wheres a will theres also a way. Nothign can be don from now to tomorrow...every improvement of this game means naturally somehow more or less effort to be take to make some positive changes happen. Only because soem changes should be made to content, that was added via expansions also doesn't mean, that these things aren#t improveable and should not ever be touched by ANet again.If you remove a feature from an expansion and change it into a general improved game feature, that has become under the change part of the core game, then you simply REPLACE the removed Expansion Feature with a new one, that way you add new content to the game, even while reworking older existing content.Reworking the Mastery System, to give it significantly better structures is also an easy way to let these efforts become in themself new content, just by adding alot of new interesting and useful masteries through the new restructured mastery system, which haven't existed before those changes beign made before - that is also too a way of adding new content.

You don't have to permanently add complete new from the scratch designed content, just to get new content.You can also work with existing content and add new content through improving the old content, enhancing and expanding it - which is somethign that can be done either via a Feature Pack-Patch, which is somethign, that we haven#t gotten anymore for several year, after ANet began to make Expansions..the last Feature Pack we received was before the release of HoT over 3 years ago!!!

Or these efforts could be incorporated into the work for the third Expansion, if these changes on the game become kind of eventually too expensive, that Anet would do them only, if they are part of an Expansion, with that ANet can make new revenue together with to kind of get a big load of the costs right back from the sales of the third expansion that could give us an overhaul of the Mastery System and the general Character Progression Mechanics to raise these systems and mechanics to a next higher "level" of quality, content and depth through improved connectivity.The Mastery System, which is now this games end content in fact, should provide in my honest opinion as that significantly more content and depthful character progression. It doesn't do that so far, due to its current lack of struture, because of the system being based on continental regions, because of expansions being tied to that mechanic, instead of gameplay aspect, that would allow it anet to design the Mastery System on a completely higher and better design level that can provide the neccessary depth for such endgame content then to keep players for years to come busy.

So in the next posting I'll step by step answer some questions that people most likely have to such a concept like some kind of FAQ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would be throwing only Masteries at players as part of the character progression too hard for new players?No, I think not, it would be quite the other way around. New players would receive a new kind of gameing experience and exploration freedom, that nobody of us woudl have seen in any other game of this caliber ever before. You wouldn't be forced to grind for gear, just to get the Stats you need, you could do instead what you want in the game, and get your Stats you want by just progressing your Character by learning new Masteries, that feel in themself way more rewardign to the player, than it feels rewardign to have to grind hours for hours for hours just for neccessary materials and gold, until you can craft yourself finally the BIS gear you need.

Does this Concept need some tweakings?Yes, sure, naturally it needs that.. nothing is perfect right from the start and so far I didn't had even the chance to get a bit more into details here.

What to do with Birthday Scrolls and Level Boosters?All items, that had under the old system the ability to boost instantly your Levels up, get changed into Gold/Laurel Boosters, which grant you instantly a certain amount of Gold or Laurels based on which kind of Booster you used.Birthday present Level Boosters become Gold Boosters which grant the player certain amounts of Gold, which becomes more, so older the Character becomes.1 Year = 10 Gold, 2 Year = 15 Gold, 3 Year = 25 Gold, 4 Year and so on (not retroactively for Characters which surpassed already the last 6 years)Level Booster, which raised Levels by +1 become Laurel Boosters and grant the player now eiother 1 or 2 Laurels instead on usage.

Is such a change far too late?No, it is not. It wasn't also far too late for anet to give underwater Skills 6 years after recelease their very first Balance Patch Changes.It wasn't too late for Anet to give us 6 years after release finalyl the ability to sit on chairs ...It wasn't also too late for this game to add 5 years after the release Mounts to this game, which alot of peopel despised for all those years and see. how much people now are in love with them... Like said, to make improvements to a game, it is never too lateGW1 received lately some Graphic improvements, would you say there too, its too late? I wouldn't because it is simply said always nice to see, when something in a game gets improved and optimized, regardless of when it happens. The Mastery System in its current form feels just incomplete and totally unripe and not very well thought out as part of an expansion. It woudl have been best, if Anet woudl have added the Mastery System as part of a Feature Pack outside of the Expasnion to bind it to so much to Expansions as driving force just to make improvements on that system!!

Does there exist a simple replacement for the mastery system, should Anet reconstructure the MS out of the Expansion Model and turn it instead into a general game feature for Character Progression 2.0?Yes, it does exist a simple replacement feature, one, that doesn't require really alot of effort to add to the game, which should have become in my honest opinion instead a Feature of HoT, instead of the Mastery System, it is called - Player Housing, because ANet added via HoT the Guild Hall System and with that has Anet basically all assets needed to basicalyl give this game also Player Housing with an overworked Player Home Instance to build up there your very own home within your Home Instance, that is really individual and unique to each player with the help of the Decorations from Guild Halls. I'm pretty sure, HoT would have sold itself much better, if Player Housing instead of the Mastery System would have been used as one of the expansions Key Features instead and it would have been so easy for Anet to do so, because of the Decorations being already part of the expansion for Guild Halls - the step between Guild Halls to Player Housing is really very tiny and its one of the most requested features, the GW2 community wants - so even more not understandable, why ANet didn#t use this big chance here to hit with one expansion literaly two birds with one stone.

Did I forgot secondary Classes?No, I absolutely didn't forgot this bad system. I'm in fact very happy about it, that GW2 doesn't have that, because the secondary class system was basically GW1's absolute game balance RUIN and the very reason for it, why balancing GW1 was from begin on always a horrible nightmare, due to tons of permanent unpredictable bad chain reactions after Balance Patches, due to totally overpowered skill combinations that were possible because of being able to combine all skills from all classes with everything as secondary professions, leading only to massive amounts of terrible builds alsotoo at the same time, that were completely useless, due to most of the skill combinations having with each other no synergies, while those that had synergies, felt completely broken and OP and became quickly the game's META.Elite Specializations and a Single Class System together are a much better Character Progression System to be honest, which feels also more realistical, immersive and natural to me, like how professions work in reality.

Are masteries deepbly embedded in this game?No, they are not, its not a system, which cannot be changed. only because it is part of an Expansion originally doesn't give this gameplay system kind of "immunity" to not be changed and improved, or to be take out of expansion as one of its features, if it is neccessary to do so, so that the overall complete game can profitate form soem changes and become that way better, if a feature liek Masteries get removed from Hot and reworked into a general game feature to which all players have access to, even those that don't own yet HoT, closing a gap between players, which in my honest opinion should never exist, splittign the games community this way basicalyl into some kind of "two class community" between expansion owners and non owners where those that dont own the expansions get treated like worthless dirt with only minimal access to game features that everybody shoudl have access too in fact and not only expansion owners. The Mastery System is siuch a kind of thing, that should have never become an expansion feature.. its too important for everybody to have access to, regardless of ownign the expansioins, or not. Therefore it is too much of a key element for this game. Like said, wheres a will, theres also a way. Masteries can be removed easily from the HoT list of features, if theres only the will at Anet to do so, and a good convincing enough concept to make it happen from that everyone would profitate from, if it gets realized.

Does Skills and Specializations mean automatically maxed Alts?No, it does not. it does mean this only, if absolutely all aspects of the reconstructured Mastery System I've in mind would stay accountbound. Then that theory would be right. But if certain Mastery Elements would stay characterbound, like the mentioned Attribute Masteries, Character Masteries, Social Masteries, then you wouldn't end up with maxed Alts, only because you have done those Masteries already with your Main Character.To make such a reconstruction concept work, it is naturally, that also some old concepts of the current mastery System need to be openend up for the mechanic of bheing turned characterbound, instead of keeping everything as accountbound, which would be in fact too easy and lead only this way to automatical maxed Alts, if we keep this bad concept, that all Masteries must be accountbound.Masteries under a good concept should work BOTH WAYS... certain thigns hsold be accountbound, but other specific masteries should stay characterblund, to make not everything too simple and to keep the playing experience of beign able to create a fresh new weak character, which can progress over time and become better

Does this concept require massively more Mastery Points?Who has said even, that my concept makes even still usage of Mastery Points? ... thats the point with people here which comment everythign instantly negatively, without givign peopel first the chance to add some explaining details to the concept.In fact, under my concept I would completely remove the neccessarity of having to grind for Mastery Points. Instead the player automatically gathers Mastery Points whenever you have learned a Mastery, basicalyl similar liek Skill Points in GW1 and when you have collected enough Mastery points from learning Masteries, then you can unlock with them new branches of Masteries within the Mastery Tree that is full of Mastery Categories, like my listed up examples, which aren#t based on cntineltal regions that are bonded to Expansion,s but instead are tied to all kinds of the various PvE Gameplay Aspects like Combat, Exploration and Mobility, which are the key elements of this games PvE experience, to which the Mastery System should put completely its focus on to provide for all of these categories alot of interestign and fun masteries, so that the player has always something new to learn in all of those areas, from theb begin when you start with a new character, to the endgame stadium of that created character and even over that for what is to come in the future of GW2 that goes beyond our current endgame state.The reconstructured Mastery System shoudl work much more like some kind of classical well designe Skill Tree that is full of tons of lots of branches to discover, which become more and more over time, so more you progress in this game with your character.That is true character progression to me, progression, which becomes exponentially slowlya over time more, to give the player a broad range of possible things to learn and specialize into to create this way your very true unique own character that is special in its very own way and reflects back also its players personality of what the player behind its avatar likes and doesn't like

Does it need extra a GW3, just to make something like this happen and become real?It would make things in the future surely easier, with a better and improved game engine and such stuff,when starting with a new game from scrath.. but neccessary to wait on GW3, just to get better character progression in this game? No.Sure, it takes time and ressources, but time and ressources, which can add with this efforts also new content to this game now, but just only in a different form of new content, that has nothing to do just with new "story" and thats in fact the only thing i guess, which really disturbs here the most people only.. not the fact of no new content, when overhauls of existing content can be in fact used to add really alot of new content too.But new content is not only "new story progression", which is what I have the feeling now, is what alot of people see here as the only way of adding "new content", what is somethign I strongly have to disagree too. Adding new story is not everything and surely isn#t also too the most important form of new content. adding new features, and improving existign content is absolutely same as important and shouln't be ignored and neglected, only because of alot of people rushing through their games and wanting to see permanently only new story beign added and nothing else ...because otherwise they get bored and potentially leave the game.

Can't also understand this permanent fleeing to a potential GW3, when we have here with GW2 - yes a 6 years old game - a game, which still makes basically only like 40% maybe only usage of the maximum potenial it has. It is in my opinion way too early still for a GW3 to even think about it.Even if ANet should ever think about working on a new game, they'd be better done with it to work next on a completely new game franchise first and give the GW franchise a break for now first thenThat would do GW as franchise good to take after part 2 a break for some time, sit out one or two gaming pc generations and then return somewhen in the future after that franchise break via a fulminant comeback with a GW3, that will blast all our socks off then completely, due to overshooting all our expectations then, while giving the development teams some time to refresh their creative minds by working for some time on different franchises.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Probably, then, would have been better to post the fleshed-out idea initially.

Good luck.

Sure is, but Ive posted, that I had not the time to do so, so I used the time I had yesterday, just to post first what I can do in that limited time I had for it.But I guess you shouldn't expect from forum readers here, that they give the topic creators at least some time first to explain themself, before they already criticize everything like some kind of mowing machines which don't care about it, what gets between them, and their rotating blades, as long they just have something to mow down ....

shrugs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As in depth as the idea is, this is change for the sake of change. The system we have by and large works for the existing playerbase and has done for 6 years. This isn't really improving things, just presenting it a different way - one that will inevitable upset a lot of players who are used to doing it a certain way (and something that will always need to be considered when designing anything).

I like the idea of a broader spectrum of masteries to increase progression, but that can just be slotted into the current system as we have it now rather than basically redesigning the game and untangling pretty much every aspect of the game which ties into it and the UI (which is, well everything).

I'd rather see ideas to improve progression that utilisie and improve on the current system, rather than basically rebuilding the game from the ground up

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Orpheal.8263 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Probably, then, would have been better to post the fleshed-out idea initially.

Good luck.

Sure is, but Ive posted, that I had not the time to do so, so I used the time I had yesterday, just to post first what I can do in that limited time I had for it.But I guess you shouldn't expect from forum readers here, that they give the topic creators at least some time first to explain themself, before they already criticize everything like some kind of mowing machines which don't care about it, what gets between them, and their rotating blades, as long they just have something to mow down ....

shrugs

They work with what you give them. Remember that it is incumbent upon the party pressing for change to convince others why such a change is beneficial or necessary. Without specifics, what else do you expect people to tell you but that it sounds like reinventing the entire game and that this seems like a huge unnecessary risk for a dubious payoff?

If you'd like better feedback, instead of getting defensive you'd do better to sharpen up the details so people have some starting point to work from. You will likely still find plenty of criticism, but at least it will be directed at the specifics you've provided so that we can debate in meaningful terms. Right now the criticism is vague because the idea is vague. So, yes, it sure does seem like reinventing the wheel. Convince me of why I want ANet to go through with this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have long been an advocate of the removal of leveling from the MMO experience. Why? I'm convinced that all aspects of vertical progression, i.e., power being in a positive relationship to time, add nothing positive in the sense of character progression. They call it a treadmill for a reason; you get on and off at the same place in terms of relative power to other players and the environment. The numbers in terms of npc power and player power periodically increase and players need to scramble and grind to replace their hard-won gear. It's just not my idea of fun any more. So, I'm all about horizontal progression which I find to be a satisfying experience all around. Mastery points can be a very good solution to the need for character progression.

And, why do we need the leveling experience? Because it's always been that way? What would we have in it's place? My idea was always an introduction to the game like an extended tutorial (but in terms of a story) where you gain a knowledge of the game, lore, place, gear, and abilities. Then with appropriate celebration you are launched into your adventuring proper in the game.

That all said, I do NOT propose that GW2 adopt this. I would love to see my ideas implemented in a game some day but I don't believe it would work, or that there is any reason to change GW2 at this point. It's better left to a glorious future. I would like to see Anet continue to refine our horizontal progression systems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm, convince you Aliam...

Then I will begin first with the big difference between Leveling 1-80 and my proposed restructure of the Mastery System.

In the current System, you are forced to undergo the process of leveling a Character from 1-80, just to get your maximum Base Stats and to become able to wear this way the best equipment in the game, so that you can start grinding for your BIS equipment for more Stats, just so that you can finaly play after ages of gear grind the build, that you want.With my reconstructured Mastery System, you wouldnt need to have to level Characters anymore to 80, just to get your Base Stats maxed, the number is completely arbitrarely, since ANet introduced the Mastery System. Think about it, how the game would be, if the game would reward you instead with little Boosts to your Attributes, whenever you learn a new Mastery instead, until a certain Maximum has been reached. Would feel alot more rewarding and would put these two systems together under just 1 needed only system - Masteries - like proposed

In the current system, you are forced to grind for Mastery points, just to be able to learn the Masteries, putting Anet constantly under the pressure to add more new Mastery Points into the game, that people have to grind for, or do things for, they don't like, just to be able tp progress with their characters.My reconstructured Mastery System doesn't force Anet to have to add constantly new Mastery Points into the game, and forces people not to do things, they don't like. Under my system everybody can do, what they want, and gain automatically with every learned Mastery some Mastery points, that can be then used to unlock new Masteries to learn.. its a far more rewarding system, if the whole thing works like an automatic Skill Tree, where the options of how you can progress with your character grow automatically over time, so more you play the game, leading this way to more unique characters, have have chosen different paths of progression and are not all the same, despite having eventually played for the same time the game.

In the current system, you are forced to grind for Hero Points, just to be able to unlock your Elite Specializations, which feels grindy and unimmersive and it limitates the Elite Specializations down to its Traits, which are are forced to use, just to be able to use the Weapon and Skills of the Specialization. The current system givres no real build diversity freedom for Elite Specs and the system makes the Specs feel like outsiders from the Core Class, when they should feel in fact more like beign actually part of the Core Class, without that the Core Class becomes kind of underpowered and useless through them, like now.With my reconstructured Mastery System would we have less grindy and more immersive acquisitions of Elite Specs, because then we would have to do somethign for them, that actually feels like learning the specializations, and not just grindign for some points and et voila, you now are suddenly Specialization X, without having proven, that you have specialized your Character really in anything at all and when E Specs get merged into the Mastery System as expanded feature of it, then theres also no need anymore to grind for silly Hero Points either in PvE or WvW, just to unlock this way the skills and traits

In the current form has the Mastery System no real structure, no categories, Anet lists them up just only after regions of Tyria and their expansions and after that they are wildly listed up without any sense.With my proposal, would receive the Mastery System a clear structure and categories under which each Mastery - be it accoundbound ones, characterbound ones, landbased ones, underwaterbased ones would get sortated and categorized, to make the whole thing more overviewable - what is a neccessarity, if you want to add into the Mastery System alot more character progression content in form of alot of new masteries. For that needs the UI ander the mastery System a restructuring, like proposed above with categories, like Combat Masteries, Exploration Masteries, Mobility Masteries and so on ...which makes it also clearer then, where you will find the Mastery that you want to learn, if there is fist once the moment, when there woudl be significantly much more masteries in the game, than what we have so far.

The current form of the mastery System makes maybe so far only 1% usage of the potential it has to become this games greates endgame content that can keep players busy for a long time, cause so far we have only Mounts and some HoT region based Masteries, that are only useful there and a hand full of general little QoL Masteries. Do you believe, the system was worth adding, for just only that, when there is sooo much more, that could be done with it?Under my proposal would be the door opened, to prepare the Mastery System to become the games greatest endgame content on the long run, because if Anet wouldnt make out of that system on the long run the best endgame content, then would have been adding the whole system from begin on just a waste of time, because things like Mounts could have been added otherwise also as a Feature without being linked at all to Masteries.The current form of the Mastery System just isn't well thought out to the end and it needs tweakings and improvements - and like said, only because it is currently expansion content, shouldn't make it immune from receiving improvements and getting eventually unbinded from the expansion model, for a replacement feature like Housing, which is also one of the biggest wished features of this community, which could anytime replace the Mastery System as a HoT feature for the sake of this game, due to Guild Halls providing with Decorations nearly already everything that is needed to replace Masteries as HoT feature with Player Housing - adding this way even more new content by just reworking and improving existing content instead of ignoring it, only because it got added via an expansion first

The current system floods the game with Level Boosters and Birthday Scrolls for Instant leveling, which kind of quickly become useless for a player, once you have everythign you need. It is also not good, if players can get their characters to max way too quickly because this leads only to certain maps dieing out quicklyMy proposal would change those more or less useless boosters into more rewarding Gold and Laurel giving items, which are always useful to a player, regardless how many characters you have, or how far progressed they are, or how ld they are and so on and the map design under map proposal could get reworked a bit, so that beginner maps become a bit closer maps of the endgame, if you don't have to grind for base stats anymore so long, than before, due to receivign via learned masteries faster your base stats, than by leveling from 1-80

The current system provides no masteries, that are designed around characterbased things, social elements, class based mechanics and so on, that can further give your specific character the impression of gaining character progression.My proposal would add all this, giving this way the Mastery System alot more design depth, than what it has currently, with its only focus of Mounts and HoT regional stuff, makign the character progression in this game under the Mastery System kind of disappointign so far, when you realize, for what it all could be used to give the game alot more an immersive impression of progressing with your character, without needign to have Levels anymore at all and it wouzdl become more overviewable, when those kind of masteries get splitted up into active and passive ones, under different terms (Abilities / Talents), so that you can better realize, what a mastery exactly does for you, if it requires some kind of player activity (Ability), or if it is something, that will be automatically always be there for you, once learned (Talent)Think about a Social Mastery, like Music Arts, which is fully focused on improving the gameplay aspects of playing music with instruments for example, or one for improved Emotes and Chat Options/Commands ect. pp

I could potentially find some positive arguments more that would speak for it for making this proposal become real, but I think this are already enough reasons, which should convince people, that reworking and tweaking the current iteration of the Mastery System is on the long run only profitable for the whole game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

umh no, what has the Gem Store to do with all this now?The progression rewards for Stats would not be locked to specific Masteries..So if there is a Mastery in the line, you don't care for, there would be then more than enough other ones you could aim for to do.If it would take for example a player to learn 50 Masteries to gain as rewards through them all the maximum possible Stat Points you can get by now with level 80 wearing ascended equipment.. and the game would provide like tripple as much learnable Masteries to begin with, then I'm pretty sure, that no player in GW2 would ever come into the situation of having not any kind of enough masteries there to learn, to feel like being forced to do something you don't like, only to get maximum stats, playing the game as you want all the time, what will be possible only, as long it is guaranteed, that players have always enough CHOICES.

Currently doesn't provide this unstructured Mastery System as of now not really much choices, because the system makes so far only usage of 1% of its maximum potential with a very static design that forces players to grind for mastery points, just to progress with your character, forcing players this way to do content, they don't like eventually, just to earn the Mastery Points.With my proposal would feel learning new masteries and gaining Mastery points alot easier and more natural as you play the game, how you want.You wouldn't need to do Achievement X anymore and kill a Raid Boss or somethign like that, just so that you can learn a specific Mastery.All you would need to do as a Player under my system is, chosse the Mastery that you want to learn, fulfill the Experience Task that is described under the Mastery to do to learn the Mastery and earn Mastery Points then automaticalyl for learning a Mastery, with that you can then unlock another new Mastery of your choice you want to learn next, if you have earned enough Mastery points for one to unlock a new Mastery.On the other hand, you could under my system potentially learn new masteries also, by just doing somethign unsuspectetly in the game... like taking up a Fishing Rod which you find somewhere randomly on the ground near a lake, and you start learning this way automatically the Basics as mastery for Fishing - learnign the Basics leads you to earn Mastery Point,s with that you can then start the more advanced masteries for Fishign and so on and so forth - so it could be also just such a simple automatism like this, which rewards the player for exploring the game and tryign just things out, that you just found somewhere ....

Thats why I'm saying, that the Mastery System currently makes only usage of 1% of its potential. Add the missing 99% to that and players would have then alot more choices. Just think of it alone, what could be expanded with Mounts only to increase the amount of possible learnable Masteries.. alot more choices, which naturally also mean alot more new content, but just not story driven content - feature driven content instead which shoudl receive once in a while also a stronger focus by Anet - and that not only via expansions, but via feature packs.

Not just adding only new Mount Types, but also for PvE for example Masteries based around Mounted Combat, Masteries based around Mount Abilities, Mount Features like Mount Breeding for Mount Races, adding the feature to give your Mounts own NAMES, own crafted MOUNT SADDLES with that players could enhance their inventories for example and masteries for more individual Mount Customization, than only colors ....making mounts truly in every possible aspect unique in GW2 in ways, other games most likely never thought about ever, could be possible to do with a feature like Mounts to provide character progression this way, that has nothigj to do at all with levelign your own character anymore, but just givign your character new abilities and talents, that unlock for your character tons of new possibilities of what you can do with your character in this game, what you weren#t able to do before you had learned Mastery "X"

My small list of Mastery Categories above wasn't complete in how much more the system could get expanded, get better structurized and reworked and reformatted into more outstanding awesome endgame content that truly reflects good Character Progression in as many ways as possible to keep players for years busy and not just only for like a month, until all kinds of masteries there exist are already learned and peopel wait just eagerly for new story content, because theres nothign more to do in the game otherwise, with that you can progress with your character in the meanwhile as you wait on the story to progress until the next living world chapter comes or another expansion for more story.

Aside of that mentioned list could be added also too Fashion Style Masteries, the mentioned by me already Class Masteries, Trade Masteries and also too fittingly to the Replacement Feature - Housing Masteries as own Mastery Categories (will edit that in now).There is more than enough potential to easily come up with hundreds of masteries to learn to give players more than enough choices to have among them something you like and care for, without forcing a player to do ever anything you don't like to do, just to get the required amount of mastery points, so that you can finally learn a mastery then and Anet doesn#t need then to add constantly more and more MP somewhere into the game and pointless numbers, like mastery rank points could then get removed as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Orpheal.8263" said:umh no, what has the Gem Store to do with all this now?The progression rewards for Stats would not be locked to specific Masteries..So if there is a Mastery in the line, you don't care for, there would be then more than enough other ones you could aim for to do.If it would take for example a player to learn 50 Masteries to gain as rewards through them all the maximum possible Stat Points you can get by now with level 80 wearing ascended equipment.. and the game would provide like tripple as much learnable Masteries to begin with, then I'm pretty sure, that no player in GW2 would ever come into the situation of having not any kind of enough masteries there to learn, to feel like being forced to do something you don't like, only to get maximum stats, playing the game as you want all the time, what will be possible only, as long it is guaranteed, that players have always enough CHOICES.

Currently doesn't provide this unstructured Mastery System as of now not really much choices, because the system makes so far only usage of 1% of its maximum potential with a very static design that forces players to grind for mastery points, just to progress with your character, forcing players this way to do content, they don't like eventually, just to earn the Mastery Points.With my proposal would feel learning new masteries and gaining Mastery points alot easier and more natural as you play the game, how you want.You wouldn't need to do Achievement X anymore and kill a Raid Boss or somethign like that, just so that you can learn a specific Mastery.All you would need to do as a Player under my system is, chosse the Mastery that you want to learn, fulfill the Experience Task that is described under the Mastery to do to learn the Mastery and earn Mastery Points then automaticalyl for learning a Mastery, with that you can then unlock another new Mastery of your choice you want to learn next, if you have earned enough Mastery points for one to unlock a new Mastery.On the other hand, you could under my system potentially learn new masteries also, by just doing somethign unsuspectetly in the game... like taking up a Fishing Rod which you find somewhere randomly on the ground near a lake, and you start learning this way automatically the Basics as mastery for Fishing - learnign the Basics leads you to earn Mastery Point,s with that you can then start the more advanced masteries for Fishign and so on and so forth - so it could be also just such a simple automatism like this, which rewards the player for exploring the game and tryign just things out, that you just found somewhere ....

Thats why I'm saying, that the Mastery System currently makes only usage of 1% of its potential. Add the missing 99% to that and players would have then alot more choices. Just think of it alone, what could be expanded with Mounts only to increase the amount of possible learnable Masteries.. alot more choices, which naturally also mean alot more new content, but just not story driven content - feature driven content instead which shoudl receive once in a while also a stronger focus by Anet - and that not only via expansions, but via feature packs.

Not just adding only new Mount Types, but also for PvE for example Masteries based around Mounted Combat, Masteries based around Mount Abilities, Mount Features like Mount Breeding for Mount Races, adding the feature to give your Mounts own NAMES, own crafted MOUNT SADDLES with that players could enhance their inventories for example and masteries for more individual Mount Customization, than only colors ....making mounts truly in every possible aspect unique in GW2 in ways, other games most likely never thought about ever, could be possible to do with a feature like Mounts to provide character progression this way, that has nothigj to do at all with levelign your own character anymore, but just givign your character new abilities and talents, that unlock for your character tons of new possibilities of what you can do with your character in this game, what you weren#t able to do before you had learned Mastery "X"

My small list of Mastery Categories above wasn't complete in how much more the system could get expanded, get better structurized and reworked and reformatted into more outstanding awesome endgame content that truly reflects good Character Progression in as many ways as possible to keep players for years busy and not just only for like a month, until all kinds of masteries there exist are already learned and peopel wait just eagerly for new story content, because theres nothign more to do in the game otherwise, with that you can progress with your character in the meanwhile as you wait on the story to progress until the next living world chapter comes or another expansion for more story.

Aside of that mentioned list could be added also too Fashion Style Masteries, the mentioned by me already Class Masteries, Trade Masteries and also too fittingly to the Replacement Feature - Housing Masteries as own Mastery Categories (will edit that in now).There is more than enough potential to easily come up with hundreds of masteries to learn to give players more than enough choices to have among them something you like and care for, without forcing a player to do ever anything you don't like to do, just to get the required amount of mastery points, so that you can finally learn a mastery then and Anet doesn#t need then to add constantly more and more MP somewhere into the game and pointless numbers, like mastery rank points could then get removed as well.

What do you think of my idea of removing old idea of classes and let people choose what ever specs from all classes and amor type they want and make lvling account based so 1 lvled makes all max lvled

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Laila Lightness.8742

That is something that ReaverKane.7598 complained about and was against about. I am too against a restructured Mastery System that makes it possible to make instant maxed alts when you have learned certain masteries, which is why I say, to make my proposal work must exist then accountbound as like also too characterbound masteries, so that players can still have the gaming experience with freshly new created characters of having with them Character Progression the same way, how you had it with your very first Main Character. (Only characterbound masteries would give Stat Boosts, not accountbound ones, just for I know this question would come up surely next..)The removal of Classes is indiscutable, Classes are required to give Characters roles, professions which stand for those roles and themes. Secondary Professions/mixing everythign together as you like are a terrible nightmare and the reason for why GW1 couldn't become ever balanced.Classes are something with that players can personify themself with, what is important.To speed up the process of maxing your Alts shouldn't be used an accountbased Mastery System for it. That would make things way too easy and boring, if you could max by playing 1 character automatically everything for all your follow up alts without having them played for a single time...For that it would be better to have just more Weekend Specials, which reward players for playing their alts with increased speed on learning their characterbound masteries.It was already wrong in my opinion to flood the game with all these instant level up scrolls , giving this way essentially players no reasons anymore to actually play their alts, when all you had to do from that moment on after creation to pop only a birthday scroll and some douzens of level up boosters to get instantly a max level alt character... Thats poor gameplay which shouldnt have been ever supported this way tbh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...