Game balance as a whole is broken.

Right, right, so you've probably read my title come along to give your 2 cents on how through some elaborate mindset, you've figured me out as some salty nobody (for one reason or another). If you've, in fact, taken interest in my intent instead, well, then I commend you for surpassing my expectations. So, on to it then.

I've been with this game since just a little after launch, I don't mean that as some arrogant pulling of rank, just that I've been with this game awhile, and I care about it, deeply, though, as of late, that care is failing me. This game is broken. Not that it's ever been perfect (No game is), but it had the potential to be so much more, still does, but I fear between the vision of Anet, and the remainder of the community's expectations of status quo, this game is stuck in it's ways. And that, well, that's not a good thing.

Where would you, O reader mine, say the priority of any RPG be placed aside from the story (Which is a given)? Right. In the classes. You can't play a character without definition, as the world -and therefor the story- would not know who you were. As with any story worth it's salt, it recognizes that you can have a beautiful plot, world, concepts, and what have you, but if not well defined, identifiable characters, what legs have you story stand on? Right. None.

In an RPG, your characters are whatever you make them, but in an MMO, a genre who's very nature in grounded in RPG, but now with other humans with whom you share your story, how are you defined? Right. Your classes. So then, why, might I ask, is the purpose of a class-system where the game is so unevenly balanced that there are obvious choices as to what you should play? Not because they are fun, not because they define you the individual, not because you see yourself in them, no, but because they are "efficient", because they are "Meta".

Did you know that the word "Meta" means "Beyond" in Greek? So, when we scramble for the meta, to be efficient or viable, we are saying that we wish to be Beyond our other options. Sometimes, even beyond other players. By not only perpetuating the Meta out of some feeling of necessity, but wanting it, we openly admit to wanting to be unbalanced. When you cry out for buffs and nerfs, ask yourself, is it in fairness? Is it because you genuinely feel that it would improve not only the quality of your own experience, but also of others? Especially the ones you demand the nerfs of? It's funny. We all want variety, right? To see many different combinations of builds, stats, weapons, etc. We all want our favorite things to be viable. Whatever happened to using your favorite things because you liked them, and not because they were the best? Even by asking for simple buffs and nerfs, the perpetuation of this cycle can be all too easy. Isn't the point of a class to be unique? How about it's build? The weapon you like that's usable by that class and build? If it becomes the meta, everyone else will use it too. Doesn't it make you feel sad to think that the things you love are suddenly so overused? Like there is so little variety, you just jump at the chance to play something new for awhile if only it means you can get away from what you otherwise constantly play without cease? The concept of a meta, destroys the concept of viable variety. This is a sad truth.

So why are we drawn to a meta? Because it's efficient? Because it's powerful? Because it makes you feel efficient and powerful? Doesn't that, by extent, mean that when you openly choose to adopt the meta, you admit, even if only subconsciously, that you yourself need the meta? It becomes a crutch, doesn't it? Suddenly, the game gets a little bit easier. PvP starts finding favor with you just a little bit more, huh? Though when is it enough? When are we powerful enough? You know that class you hate, the one that keeps contesting you? Well, they just got a buff. Doesn't feel good, does it? You find yourself frustrated, taking to the forums and asking why the game is so unbalanced, asking for others to be nerfed, while you yourself are buffed. After all, you can't afford to lose what makes you feel powerful, what makes you feel special, what makes you the same to others that you could not stand your most hated class being.

Look, I get it. I do. S'why I'm making this post, right here, right now. Not because someone else is, in my mind, more unfairly powerful than myself. Not because I lost a match of PvP. Not because I hate that another class is doing better than mine. It's because, as a whole, this game, at it's fundamentals, has lost sight of what balance is in favor of trying to deliver on the promise of power. You want balance? Abandon your concept of the meta. You want competently fair competitive modes? Abandon your concept of power. Abandon the concept of insta-kills and dps. Your concept of being the unkillable, of the all-powerful support.

Ask yourself.. the way you play the game right now.. would you say it's powerful? I'm not asking you to admit if something is overpowered, I'm asking, in your own words, compared to other options in the game, is it powerful? Isn't the point of a game to be fun through fairness? Sure, it may feel good to be better than someone else, but ask yourself, how much of that isn't because of you, but because of the way you play?

Instead of holding up other classes as examples of how all classes should be, so that they are all lifted in power to meet one another, lower them all. No, I'm not joking. Balance will never make everyone happy, especially not those that think they are powerful due to their class being powerful. Find a center line, find it at the surface of the game itself, not what everyone thinks should be the line, not a line that keeps moving upward the more powerful other classes become. No. Balance the game at a constant line, not comparing classes to one another. Is a class above that line? Bring it down to that line. Is a class below that line? Bring it up. Is an ability just simply too powerful? Don't just scale back the power, look at it on a fundamental level, contemplate complete removal or change.

The bottom line? Don't ever let a game get to the point where it forgets what it is, chasing people that have as much loyalty to it as they have to any other game. Quit making things easy for the sake of catering to casuals; both the ones that don't spend any time playing a game, and the ones that truly believe the meta is a literal manifestation of their own abilities in a virtual world, and they can't live without it.

We justify the concept of power by throwing out the flimsy excuse of "fun". Next time you think this, ask yourself if the person you unfairly beat in PvP/WvW, or the person who got kicked/rejected from a raid team due to not playing exactly what others wanted of them, are having fun. Fun is the point of video games, but if not tempered with fairness, precious few are having "fun".

@"Undead Unicorn.1238" said:The bottom line? Don't ever let a game get to the point where it forgets what it is, chasing people that have as much loyalty to it as they have to any other game. Quit making things easy for the sake of catering to casuals; both the ones that don't spend any time playing a game, and the ones that truly believe the meta is a literal manifestation of their own abilities in a virtual world.

I too want build variety. The problem is that ArenaNet has no idea how to balance elite specializations in order for them to be on par with the previous elite specialization or core specializations. If you want a good example of how ArenaNet caters to casuals, look no further than the Holosmith. I'm just going to say this, I hate the Holosmith.

As someone who's been playing core power engineer since 2013, I've never been so disappointed in ArenaNet and how they managed to neuter the engineer. Core engineer whether it's power or condition is the most difficult adventurer profession, if not the most difficult profession in general. Way back in the day, before elite specializations, a core engineer was capable of dealing with almost every single profession in a 1v1 situation. A good engineer who knew how to use the kits effectively was guaranteed to be deadly. Core engineers were the Yasuo players from League of Legends at launch; difficult to play, but very deadly once you got the hang of it and learned how to use the kits (I don't play LoL, I just know some of the champions).

Nowadays, we have this pathetic excuse for an "engineer" profession. One that caters to casuals that don't want to acknowledge the difficulty that comes with playing core engineer, that don't want to be bothered to learn how to play the profession. It's a glass cannon specialization that deals the most amount of damage, yet it has the ability to use healing and utility skills. In my opinion, the best way to make the Holosmith on par with core engineer and even Scrapper is to either nerf Photon Forge and make it like necromancers' Shroud form where you can't use healing and utility skills or buff core engineers' kits.

That's the only way core engineer can be buffed in my opinion. Buffing traits is pointless because it would benefit the Scrapper and the Holosmith. We already had the Med Kit reworked, so why not rework/buff the other kits?

@"Hoodie.1045" said:I too want build variety. The problem is that ArenaNet has no idea how to balance the other specializations in order for them to be on par with the others elite specialization or core specializations. If you want a good example of ArenaNet catering to casuals, look no further than the Holosmith. I'm just going to say this, I hate the Holosmith.

I completely agree. Honestly, elite specialization were handled in just about the worst way possible. They should have served to better define a build, not make it, not elevate it.

As someone who's been playing core power engineer since 2013, I've never been so disappointed in ArenaNet and how they managed to neuter the engineer. Core engineer whether it's power or condition is the most difficult adventurer profession, if not the most difficult profession in general. Way back in the day, before elite specializations, a core engineer was capable of dealing with almost every single profession in a 1v1 situation. A good engineer who knew how to use the kits effectively was guaranteed to be deadly. Core engineers were the Yasuo players from League of Legends at launch; difficult to play, but very deadly once you got the hang of it and learned how to use the kits (I don't play LoL, I just know some of the champions).

I feel your pain. I too have the Engineer as one of my mains, and have for a long while.

Nowadays, we have this pathetic excuse for an "engineer" profession. One that caters to casuals that don't want to acknowledge the difficulty that comes with playing core engineer, that don't want to be bothered to learn how to play the profession. It's a glass cannon specialization that deals the most amount of damage, yet it has the ability to use healing and utility skills. In my opinion, the best way to make the Holosmith on par with core engineer and even Scrapper is to either nerf Photon Forge and make it like necromancers' Shroud form where you can't use healing and utility skills or buff core engineers' kits.

I think Photon forge was a mistake to have existed in the first place. They essentially made the tool belt utilities simply tack on another "kit"-esque ability that worked like death shroud but in reverse. It sounds like laziness. Why not have made Holosmith be like the "Tinkerer" or something, and make it heal/tank with nanotech it uses to construct hardlight for short-lived healing bubbles, or be something like a "mechromancer" (yes, Gaige from borderlands is the first title I thought of) and wield a staff that channeled lightning to support/revive allies (Think doctor frankenstein that discovered a defibrillator).

That's the only way core engineer can be buffed in my opinion. Buffing traits is pointless because it would benefit the Scrapper and the Holosmith. We already had the Med Kit reworked, so why not rework/buff the other kits?

Well, you are already part way there. Why stop at reworking the other kits when they could just as easily rework the specializations? Don't settle. I intend to get changes made. So too should you :)

The biggest problem is simple: Anet simply cannot balance their game correctly.

Just how long, back in the day, were Ranger and Necromancer considered a joke? They were more of a joke than Dragoons in FFXIV [commonly called LolDRG because their jumps constantly got bad players killed]. Just how long has Necromancer Epidemic been, literally, the only reason Necromancers in general are liked nowadays? How long have Rangers begged to have fixes to their pets' extremely dumb A.I?

Now, they did this insane rework of Deadeye's Malice mechanic that actually made them WEAKER and made PvP-focused specs without actually balancing them correctly for PvP [except for Spellbreaker, which does not fit the name it was given at all].

I really don't understand what their plan for this game is.

The only way to fully balance an MMO is to make every class/spec identical. I disagree with everyone in this thread - ANET does a fairly good job. Almost all the classes have a reason to be brought to a raid. And all of them are good in general PvE. Most have some utility in PvP - however again in top PvP some small difference will mean no one will pick that class...

There is no way fix this without removing differences.

@"Undead Unicorn.1238" said:Did you know that the word "Meta" means "Beyond" in Greek? ".So, when we scramble for the meta, to be efficient or viable, we are saying that we wish to be Beyond our other options. Sometimes, even beyond other players.Yeah, very poetic of you but meta means " after " in greek and it is not even pronounced in the same way.

The concept of a meta, destroys the concept of viable variety.Is viable variety even a thing ? Haven't played a single game.So why are we drawn to a meta? Because it's efficient? Because it's powerful? Because it makes you feel efficient and powerful?META stands for Most Effective Tactic Available. Everyone want to be as effective as possible, that's why META especially relevant in competitive environments .

Doesn't that, by extent, mean that when you openly choose to adopt the meta, you admit, even if only subconsciously, that you yourself need the meta? It becomes a crutch, doesn't it? Suddenly, the game gets a little bit easier. PvP starts finding favor with you just a little bit more, huh? Though when is it enough? When are we powerful enough? You know that class you hate, the one that keeps contesting you? Well, they just got a buff. Doesn't feel good, does it? You find yourself frustrated, taking to the forums and asking why the game is so unbalanced, asking for others to be nerfed, while you yourself are buffed. After all, you can't afford to lose what makes you feel powerful, what makes you feel special, what makes you the same to others that you could not stand your most hated class being.

Whoa, whoa, slow down, you acting like everyone who follows the META has some psychological problem or inferiority syndrome but that's obviously far from the truth.

You want balance? Abandon your concept of the meta. You want competently fair competitive modes? Abandon your concept of power. Abandon the concept of insta-kills and dps. Your concept of being the unkillable, of the all-powerful support.

This simply can't exist. META is something that is discovered, it is not deliberate invention. And I hope you understand that if you want to be competitive there is no way you are going to abandon META, right? It is like kicking yourself in the balls.

We justify the concept of power by throwing out the flimsy excuse of "fun". Next time you think this, ask yourself if the person you unfairly beat in PvP/WvW, or the person who got kicked/rejected from a raid team due to not playing exactly what others wanted of them, are having fun. Fun is the point of video games, but if not tempered with fairness, precious few are having "fun".

Maybe if you weren't taking these things and these thoughts so seriously then maybe you would be having fun. It is just a game after all.

@Hume.2876 said:The only way to fully balance an MMO is to make every class/spec identical. I disagree with everyone in this thread - ANET does a fairly good job. Almost all the classes have a reason to be brought to a raid. And all of them are good in general PvE. Most have some utility in PvP - however again in top PvP some small difference will mean no one will pick that class...

There is no way fix this without removing differences.

Multiple games like FFXIV and even WoW have better balance than GW2, so no, you don't need to make everyone identical. You need to make it so one class doesn't outdamage everyone by a large margin slowly looks at Elementalist throughout the years.

You need to actually LISTEN to the feedback you're given, which Anet constantly does not do. It's like they're Blizzard all of a sudden, not listening to criticism and doing balance changes that kinda show they don't even play their own game.

@"Ephemiel.5694" said:The biggest problem is simple: Anet simply cannot balance their game correctly.

I agree, however, even in the end, players will still crawl back to whatever makes them feel powerful.

Just how long, back in the day, were Ranger and Necromancer considered a joke? They were more of a joke than Dragoons in FFXIV [commonly called LolDRG because their jumps constantly got bad players killed]. Just how long has Necromancer Epidemic been, literally, the only reason Necromancers in general are liked nowadays? How long have Rangers begged to have fixes to their pets' extremely dumb A.I?

Actually, this runs counter to my whole point. Epidemic is something that made necro decent even in it's worst of days, and yet, I have loved necro for so long, and never used epidemic more than a handful of times. Now that they are laughably easy to play, I can't bring myself to hardly login. The pet mechanic, however, shouldn't have ever existed. It should have been as though you were permanently in "Beast-mode" permanently since the beginning, and pets were short-term summon-ables, if at all. I don't like stuff because it makes me feel powerful, I like stuff because I am drawn in by theme, and the impact of the emotional atmosphere.

Now, they did this insane rework of Deadeye's Malice mechanic that actually made them WEAKER and made PvP-focused specs without actually balancing them correctly for PvP [except for Spellbreaker, which does not fit the name it was given at all].

The nerf to Deadeye was actually good (I like and play deadeye. They were too powerful). The only problem is that it's tied to stealth, and honestly, the whole stealth mechanic in this game was absolutely horribly handled. The concept of specs being made specifically for PvP is a horrible idea to begin with, and spellbreaker should probably have been what base thief was: Boon steal/removal, oppressive, ability-cancelling, acrobatic, precise, more about evasion, less about running away every 2 seconds.

I really don't understand what their plan for this game is.

At this point? It looks like they are trying to make up for a loss of players with trying to appeal to a wider audience that only cares about being powerful. Honestly, I'd just balance literally everything in this game from the ground up and relaunch it (Still with it's free-to-play model) under a different name, like "Tyria online" or something. "Guild wars 2" hurts fans of the previous game, while the title in itself implies to new players that the game is about actively taking part in guilds and large-scale competitive battles. In that new launch, the should probably worry more about getting loyal players back, as opposed to those that only care about how being powerful.

I love these threads because people see that Anet doesn't balance by performance (true) ... then conclude they should be (incorrect) and proceed to rant about how it's 'bad' or 'wrong' and be the ultimate demise of the game. Funny stuff. Unfortunately it ignores what is really happening.

... the balance you desire will never be the one you get, because that's not the game experience Anet wants to give players; if they did, they would have done so by now. What I do know ... the game is still here, it's as unbalanced in terms of performance, as it can ever be. Seems to me that the idea that MMO's NEED balance is dispelled ... at least with this player market and business model. Frankly, I think Anet stumbled upon a segment of the MMO market that remembers what it's like to choose a class based on theme and story and immersion ... a segment that doesn't treat games like Excel spreadsheet exercises. Amen to that.

The only assurance is that if you like 'balanced' games, you got lots to choose from. This isn't one of them.

@Eme.2018 said:

@"Undead Unicorn.1238" said:Yeah, very poetic of you but meta means " after " in greek and it is not even pronounced in the same way.

"Word-forming element meaning 1. "after, behind," 2. "changed, altered," 3. "higher, beyond;" from Greek meta (prep.) "in the midst of; in common with; by means of; between; in pursuit or quest of; after, next after, behind," in compounds most often meaning "change" of place, condition, etc. This is from PIE *me- "in the middle" (source also of German mit, Gothic miþ, Old English mið "with, together with, among;" see mid). Notion of "changing places with" probably led to senses "change of place, order, or nature," which was a principal meaning of the Greek word when used as a prefix (but also denoting "community, participation; in common with; pursuing").

Third sense, "higher than, transcending, overarching, dealing with the most fundamental matters of," is due to misinterpretation of metaphysics as "science of that which transcends the physical." This has led to a prodigious erroneous extension in modern usage, with meta- affixed to the names of other sciences and disciplines, especially in the academic jargon of literary criticism." ~Dictionary. You aren't wrong, but maybe you should have checked that I wasn't either.

Is viable variety even a thing ? Haven't played a single game.

Yes, actually, it is. Games simply don't like to implement it due to how they know players will try to play. Not perfect balance, no, but then, for that, you just don't let the play environment go stagnant, and don't create things that are obviously better than others.

META stands for Most Effective Tactic Available. Everyone want to be as effective as possible, that's why META especially relevant in competitive environments .

And you don't think for a second that the naming of this is even slightly too coincidental? Regardless, no, not everyone wants to be as effective as possible. Some would like to derive fun from doing whatever they like instead of being pressure to play one way to min/max their playstyle to accommodate others. Others, on the same side, or on the opposite.

Whoa, whoa, slow down, you acting like everyone who follows the META has some psychological problem or inferiority syndrome but that's obviously far from the truth.

Look, if you are playing a game, and you go well out of you way to optimize yourself to be as effective as possible, your own enjoyment is bound to suffer. Either one does not care because the concept of classes, builds, balance, etc. does not interest them, and they only see it as an unfortunate necessity to a game they could otherwise play even without classes, or, you are not making your choices based on what interests you in favor of what makes you perform well. However you look at it, at the end of the day, this thought-process hurts your own enjoyment, the enjoyment of others, and video game going forward. If you ask me, it sounds like a psychological problem enforced by the community's standards, and that, to "do well" in, you must prove yourself competent by playing the same way everyone else does.

This simply can't exist. META is something that is discovered, it is not deliberate invention. And I hope you understand that if you want to be competitive there is no way you are going to abandon META, right? It is like kicking yourself in the balls.

I disagree. While you're right, it is not a deliberate invention, the concept of balance does exist. It's when you give up your passion for it that it truly dies. Up until the condi meta, I always refused to use meta builds in PvP environments, and, I always did pretty well. Post condi meta, I just refuse to play PvP. It's an absolute joke. In PvE, I still don't play the meta. It's not worth it to set aside my enjoyment for the sake of power, and through power, some semblance of "fun".

Maybe if you weren't taking these things and these thoughts so seriously then maybe you would be having fun. It is just a game after all.

(I ask softly, with no intention of hurting you) In real life, do you not take things seriously? I ask, because see, we play things we are drawn to, don't we? It's the whole point of classes; defined playstyles that appeal more or less to us. People often say that gaming is an escape for them, it's another world, one where they have control, one where they matter. Don't you see though? Classes exist to speak to us, as individuals, as players, as refugees. They don't offer you escape, they offer you a chance to be who you truly are, just in another world. I can't tell you how many times other people have told me that their actions in games don't equate to their true self, simply because they try to separate their true selves from their in-game ones. The fact of the matter is though, every choice we make isn't made by a virtual avatar, but by the player. Games aren't just mindless fun, Eme, they are, like with any other form of art, an expression, a series of emotions, a world. I take it seriously because I enjoy it.

@Hume.2876 said:The only way to fully balance an MMO is to make every class/spec identical. I disagree with everyone in this thread - ANET does a fairly good job. Almost all the classes have a reason to be brought to a raid. And all of them are good in general PvE. Most have some utility in PvP - however again in top PvP some small difference will mean no one will pick that class...There is no way fix this without removing differences.

I disagree. Even if one finds madness in their pursuit of balance, well, then maybe madness is what is needed.

@Obtena.7952 said:I love these threads because people see that Anet doesn't balance by performance (true) ... then conclude they should be (incorrect) and proceed to rant about how it's 'bad' or 'wrong' and be the ultimate demise of the game. Funny stuff. Unfortunately it ignores what is really happening.... the balance you desire will never be the one you get, because that's not the game experience Anet wants to give players; if they did, they would have done so by now. What I do know ... the game is still here, it's as unbalanced in terms of performance, as it can ever be. Seems to me that the idea that MMO's NEED balance is dispelled ... at least with this player market and business model. Frankly, I think Anet stumbled upon a segment of the MMO market that remembers what it's like to choose a class based on theme and story and immersion ... a segment that doesn't treat games like Excel spreadsheet exercises. Amen to that.The only assurance is that if you like 'balanced' games, you got lots to choose from. This isn't one of them.

You know, you may be right. Though, well, you'd never know what you could have changed if you just remained silent.

@Ephemiel.5694 said:Multiple games like FFXIV and even WoW have better balance than GW2, so no, you don't need to make everyone identical. You need to make it so one class doesn't outdamage everyone by a large margin slowly looks at Elementalist throughout the years.You need to actually LISTEN to the feedback you're given, which Anet constantly does not do. It's like they're Blizzard all of a sudden, not listening to criticism and doing balance changes that kinda show they don't even play their own game.

Exactly. Thank you, Ephemiel :)

@Undead Unicorn.1238 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I love these threads because people see that Anet doesn't balance by performance (true) ... then conclude they should be (incorrect) and proceed to rant about how it's 'bad' or 'wrong' and be the ultimate demise of the game. Funny stuff. Unfortunately it ignores what is really happening.... the balance you desire will never be the one you get, because that's not the game experience Anet wants to give players; if they did, they would have done so by now. What I do know ... the game is still here, it's as unbalanced in terms of performance, as it can ever be. Seems to me that the idea that MMO's NEED balance is dispelled ... at least with this player market and business model. Frankly, I think Anet stumbled upon a segment of the MMO market that remembers what it's like to choose a class based on theme and story and immersion ... a segment that doesn't treat games like Excel spreadsheet exercises. Amen to that.The only assurance is that if you like 'balanced' games, you got lots to choose from. This isn't one of them.

That's a nice sentiment and I would agree if this was the first time we've ever heard this complaint and I didn't have 6 years of game experience to back it up this line of thinking.

Thank you, ArenaNet, for the wonderful balance your developers have achieved. Going forward, I hope you continue to balance the game as you have.

Right. Hyperbole aside, game balance is not broken.

While I disagree with the position that they don't balance with regard to performance, I will put forth that performance is not the primary factor, at least within PvE. As long as classes are capable of performing well enough relative to the content, they are balanced appropriately. Anything beyond that, anything to do with 'META', is solely the province of players.

As for all classes performing exactly as well as the others, regardless of the players using them: I want what yer smoken'.

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:As for all classes performing exactly as well as the others, regardless of the players using them: I want what yer smoken'.

The goal wasn't to balance them all to the point of perfection, I already covered that in the original post. My intention was to say that things need to be more balanced in the way that things are not too absurdly easy, in both PvP and PvE content. I just want it so that nothing is so far beyond another thing that it's an obvious choice.

@Undead Unicorn.1238 said:

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:As for all classes performing exactly as well as the others, regardless of the players using them: I want what yer smoken'.

Problem is that's a REALLY subjective thing to ask for. Frankly, while I stand corrected (I agree that they do consider performance, but it's not the primary balancing factor), I truly believe that balance is irrelevant in this game, because of how it's designed and the (low) threshold of 'winning' in PVE; basically, you can play what you like and be successful. metapushers proved that years ago, playing crap specs and STILL soloing dungeons. The expectation for player skill is REALLY low in this game and so it should be ... that's the market it appeals to. It just so happens that the market it appeals most to isn't so concerned about performance to the level where they actually care about what they need to do to achieve anything but the lowest level of 'winning'. That's actually a really smart business decision ... or a really lucky twist of events. Either way, I'm pretty sure this game would have tanked years ago if it followed a 'standard' MMO model for game design and balancing; those market segments of players already have games that provide that experience to them. GW2 offers something different, and it works.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Undead Unicorn.1238 said:

@"Diak Atoli.2085" said:As for all classes performing exactly as well as the others, regardless of the players using them: I want what yer smoken'.

We all know you can technically do every bit of PvE content with whatever you want, but it won't change the fact there's content where you can get consistently kicked out for using a "weak class".

If every class profession is balanced; to be the same, then yes; everyone plays whatever they want because they're identical (but is that balancing?). Any slight variation will create METAs. Improvement and efficiency will always be sought.

I will only answer to you last paragraph because firstly I think that it is the most important of all and secondly you will find the main thing that is wrong(?subjective), according to me of course, with your approach.

@Undead Unicorn.1238 said:(I ask softly, with no intention of hurting you) In real life, do you not take things seriously?Not all the time.

I ask, because see, we play things we are drawn to, don't we? It's the whole point of classes; defined playstyles that appeal more or less to us. People often say that gaming is an escape for them, it's another world, one where they have control, one where they matter. Don't you see though? Classes exist to speak to us, as individuals, as players, as refugees. They don't offer you escape, they offer you a chance to be who you truly are, just in another world.

This is very personal and subjective, you can't speak for anyone other than yourself on that one.

I can't tell you how many times other people have told me that their actions in games don't equate to their true self, simply because they try to separate their true selves from their in-game ones. The fact of the matter is though, every choice we make isn't made by a virtual avatar, but by the player.What does that mean I don't understand. Which player actions, role-playing actions? Character actions in-game? Things players say in - game? What do you mean by saying true-self? All the things that you are saying are so arbitrary.

Games aren't just mindless fun, Eme, they are, like with any other form of art, an expression, a series of emotions, a world.

Again what does mindless fun mean? Of course you can't just shut down your brain and start playing games.

Games, like with any other form of art[...] : You claim games are art while a consistent and catholic definition of art does not exist. Expression? Just about anything can be an expression. A series of emotions? Again, just about anything can be a series of emotions.

I take it seriously because I enjoy it.So you are saying that everything that one enjoys shall be taken seriously? I can't say I see the logic behind this.

From my point of view, you are just presenting opinions with no facts whatsoever to support them (facts are supposed to be the basis of the conversation, something you don't have to argue about).

@"Undead Unicorn.1238" said:Right, right, so you've probably read my title come along to give your 2 cents on how through some elaborate mindset, you've figured me out as some salty nobody (for one reason or another). If you've, in fact, taken interest in my intent instead, well, then I commend you for surpassing my expectations. So, on to it then.

I've been with this game since just a little after launch, I don't mean that as some arrogant pulling of rank, just that I've been with this game awhile, and I care about it, deeply, though, as of late, that care is failing me. This game is broken. Not that it's ever been perfect (No game is), but it had the potential to be so much more, still does, but I fear between the vision of Anet, and the remainder of the community's expectations of status quo, this game is stuck in it's ways. And that, well, that's not a good thing.

Where would you, O reader mine, say the priority of any RPG be placed aside from the story (Which is a given)? Right. In the classes. You can't play a character without definition, as the world -and therefor the story- would not know who you were. As with any story worth it's salt, it recognizes that you can have a beautiful plot, world, concepts, and what have you, but if not well defined, identifiable characters, what legs have you story stand on? Right. None.

In an RPG, your characters are whatever you make them, but in an MMO, a genre who's very nature in grounded in RPG, but now with other humans with whom you share your story, how are you defined? Right. Your classes. So then, why, might I ask, is the purpose of a class-system where the game is so unevenly balanced that there are obvious choices as to what you should play? Not because they are fun, not because they define you the individual, not because you see yourself in them, no, but because they are "efficient", because they are "Meta".

Did you know that the word "Meta" means "Beyond" in Greek? So, when we scramble for the meta, to be efficient or viable, we are saying that we wish to be Beyond our other options. Sometimes, even beyond other players. By not only perpetuating the Meta out of some feeling of necessity, but wanting it, we openly admit to wanting to be unbalanced. When you cry out for buffs and nerfs, ask yourself, is it in fairness? Is it because you genuinely feel that it would improve not only the quality of your own experience, but also of others? Especially the ones you demand the nerfs of? It's funny. We all want variety, right? To see many different combinations of builds, stats, weapons, etc. We all want our favorite things to be viable. Whatever happened to using your favorite things because you liked them, and not because they were the best? Even by asking for simple buffs and nerfs, the perpetuation of this cycle can be all too easy. Isn't the point of a class to be unique? How about it's build? The weapon you like that's usable by that class and build? If it becomes the meta, everyone else will use it too. Doesn't it make you feel sad to think that the things you love are suddenly so overused? Like there is so little variety, you just jump at the chance to play something new for awhile if only it means you can get away from what you otherwise constantly play without cease? The concept of a meta, destroys the concept of viable variety. This is a sad truth.

So why are we drawn to a meta? Because it's efficient? Because it's powerful? Because it makes you feel efficient and powerful? Doesn't that, by extent, mean that when you openly choose to adopt the meta, you admit, even if only subconsciously, that you yourself need the meta? It becomes a crutch, doesn't it? Suddenly, the game gets a little bit easier. PvP starts finding favor with you just a little bit more, huh? Though when is it enough? When are we powerful enough? You know that class you hate, the one that keeps contesting you? Well, they just got a buff. Doesn't feel good, does it? You find yourself frustrated, taking to the forums and asking why the game is so unbalanced, asking for others to be nerfed, while you yourself are buffed. After all, you can't afford to lose what makes you feel powerful, what makes you feel special, what makes you the same to others that you could not stand your most hated class being.

Look, I get it. I do. S'why I'm making this post, right here, right now. Not because someone else is, in my mind, more unfairly powerful than myself. Not because I lost a match of PvP. Not because I hate that another class is doing better than mine. It's because, as a whole, this game, at it's fundamentals, has lost sight of what balance is in favor of trying to deliver on the promise of power. You want balance? Abandon your concept of the meta. You want competently fair competitive modes? Abandon your concept of power. Abandon the concept of insta-kills and dps. Your concept of being the unkillable, of the all-powerful support.

Ask yourself.. the way you play the game right now.. would you say it's powerful? I'm not asking you to admit if something is overpowered, I'm asking, in your own words, compared to other options in the game, is it powerful? Isn't the point of a game to be fun through fairness? Sure, it may feel good to be better than someone else, but ask yourself, how much of that isn't because of you, but because of the way you play?

Instead of holding up other classes as examples of how all classes should be, so that they are all lifted in power to meet one another, lower them all. No, I'm not joking. Balance will never make everyone happy, especially not those that think they are powerful due to their class being powerful. Find a center line, find it at the surface of the game itself, not what everyone thinks should be the line, not a line that keeps moving upward the more powerful other classes become. No. Balance the game at a constant line, not comparing classes to one another. Is a class above that line? Bring it down to that line. Is a class below that line? Bring it up. Is an ability just simply too powerful? Don't just scale back the power, look at it on a fundamental level, contemplate complete removal or change.

The bottom line? Don't ever let a game get to the point where it forgets what it is, chasing people that have as much loyalty to it as they have to any other game. Quit making things easy for the sake of catering to casuals; both the ones that don't spend any time playing a game, and the ones that truly believe the meta is a literal manifestation of their own abilities in a virtual world, and they can't live without it.

We justify the concept of power by throwing out the flimsy excuse of "fun". Next time you think this, ask yourself if the person you unfairly beat in PvP/WvW, or the person who got kicked/rejected from a raid team due to not playing exactly what others wanted of them, are having fun. Fun is the point of video games, but if not tempered with fairness, precious few are having "fun".

If everything is equaly viable then everything is META -> game is boring because your choices have no value. No matter what you do you are not improving your chances. Game without meta is equivalent to fliping a coin. Might be fun for few moments.

@Eme.2018 said:

@"Undead Unicorn.1238" said:Did you know that the word "Meta" means "Beyond" in Greek? ".So, when we scramble for the meta, to be efficient or viable, we are saying that we wish to be Beyond our other options. Sometimes, even beyond other players.Yeah, very poetic of you but meta means " after " in greek and it is not even pronounced in the same way.

Wait, is that true about the pronunciation? I've only ever seen it written down in a gaming context. How is it pronounced? "Metre"? And by whom?

Something that doesn't exist can't be broken. Thats really the worst thing about GW2, it directly feeds the META/elitist way. Anet should just make abig balance team for a period of some months where they constantly make balance updates like 2 times a week till it starts to resemble "balanced".

Less gemstore/mount skins, more balancing i say.

@"Tommo Chocolate.5870" said:It is pronounced with a different accent, not with different letters.

Edit: In fact, you can listen to it yourself:https://translate.google.gr/?hl=en&tab=wT#en/es/metahttps://translate.google.gr/?hl=en&tab=TT#el/en/%CE%BC%CE%B5%CF%84%CE%AC

@Eme.2018 said:

@"Tommo Chocolate.5870" said:It is pronounced with a different accent, not with different letters.

Oh, I see. But neither of those is explicitly pronouncing the gaming term: one is pronouncing the English prefix meta-, and the other is pronouncing the Greek word meta.