Are A-Net forgetting about Dragonhunter in general? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Are A-Net forgetting about Dragonhunter in general?

crazyhusky.2985crazyhusky.2985 Member ✭✭✭
edited May 16, 2018 in Guardian

It's been 2 years since anything major happened with Dragonhunter and its a pity.
All the updates for guardian during the past year have only been focusing on firebrand and Core Guardian.
Which is understandable due to the release of HoT, However with the last patch, we have the issue now in terms of raiding that core guardian offically does better than Dragonhunter
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/8jw7zi/sc_updated_benchmarks_0805_patch/
https://puu.sh/AmJUw/d48c7b30ce.jpg

All those buffs/tewaks to core, means that Dragonhunter starting to lose its relevance in raids.
You can run Virtue, Zeal, Radiance in Zerker gear and out DPS Dragonhunter.
Meaning to some heavy "meta" people might start thinking running Dragonhunter be a hinderence to the group. (they probaly do already)
To the quote guy from the post in the link ". Because of the fact Core Guardian is using the Virtues Traitline with Unscathed Contender there is no reason for us to record a Dragonhunter Virtues Variant. Dragonhunter Virtues is worse than Core Guardian in literally any scenario."

The minor patches towards Dragonhunter over the 2 years can be summed as

  • "fix" skill slightly
  • tips give correct inidcators to say that an attack does what it should
  • the one or two cooldowns to pvp and wvw but not PvE which has pretty only been Hunter's Determination
  • Dec12 07 update was the global " reduce the overall burst potential of damaging conditions throughout the game." which only effected the longbow 4 skill.

I feel like Dragonhunter has been thrown to side and A-Net either want to forget about it or don't know how to buff/rework DH to make it better.
The Elite seriously needs a buff or a rework not only to it's traits but it's Longbow too, something to keep it viable,
because 2 years is a long time without anything serious tweak or buff, and soon Dragonhunter will in the same realm as Scapper and Reaper.
Forgotten and abandoned...

Comments

  • Alex.4982Alex.4982 Member ✭✭

    I agree with you here. It does seem like it's been a very long while since DH has gotten any attention from the devs. Meanwhile its been odd to see core guard grow so far beyond what the elite spec can bring to the table in multiple different game modes. I can understand they've got their hands full with a lot they want to work on, so my hope is that the question is how long until it gets a look rather than if it will ever get a look. But then again maybe I'm just being over-optimistic.

    And for the record, I'm not saying I don't want core guard to be good, but it would be nice to have choosing an "elite" spec lead to some kind of improvement or at least offer something unique. Not that anyone's asking me, but I think the answer lies in longbow buffs or traits that improve longbow. The ability to provide some serious ranged damage would set DH apart from core guard and firebrand without taking away from what those builds can do and would be consistent with what the elite spec was originally designed to be.

  • Derm.4932Derm.4932 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2018

    Guardian subforum isn't vocal enough. If you want your class to forever be meta like Mesmer then you have to complain about everything and pretend your meta spec is garbage until they buff it into godhood =)

  • crazyhusky.2985crazyhusky.2985 Member ✭✭✭

    @Alex.4982 said:
    And for the record, I'm not saying I don't want core guard to be good, but it would be nice to have choosing an "elite" spec lead to some kind of improvement or at least offer something unique. Not that anyone's asking me, but I think the answer lies in longbow buffs or traits that improve longbow. The ability to provide some serious ranged damage would set DH apart from core guard and firebrand without taking away from what those builds can do and would be consistent with what the elite spec was originally designed to be.

    Exactly what I am trying to say, An elite spec SHOULD be an improvement to base and make you better.

    DH does offer guardian something unique a weapon that hits 1200 range. As i've said somewhere in the past DH's Longbow REALLY does need an overhaul like increasing its firing speed, and NOT having True shot stop you to fire. because right now its very slow. the traits look very basic and don't flow well maybe rearranging some of them would be better.
    I do think some traits that Heavy light and Dulled sense could be tweaked. replace stability on Heavy light for quickness instead allowing LB3 to give us quickness,
    Having Dulled senses not just be knockback but adding knock down and pull too the trait allowing the spear of justice, GS5 and bane signet to proc it, also adding a few buffs like Might and Retaliation to that trait as well.

    Right now, There is little point for this trait at all and it feels like a wasted slot. Having something cripple on knockback when only 2 things guardian has on knockback are Shield of Absorption and Deflecting shot IF you have the Heavy light trait which most people arent going to run because they arent using the longbow, so its pointless. To be honest most people have Zealot's Aggression which the Justice's passive effect does cripple anyway and Piercing light is overshadowing this trait.
    What Dulled senses trait should be ** "Gain Might and Retaliation when knocking back, launching, or pulling an enemy. Enemies you Pull, knockback or Knockdown are crippled and also inflicted with vulnerability." **

  • Assic.2746Assic.2746 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2018

    I don't think that Core Guardian dealing more damage than Dragonhunter is bad. Dragonhunter trades extra damage for crowd control, mobility and blocks.

    There are a few lackluster things I would like ANet to review and most of them are tied to longbow usage.

    • Pure of Sight is a minor trait which incentivises Dragonhunter to use longbow. It also makes scepter better but to be honest it's hard to hit anything with scepter in PvP/WvW due to slow projectile travel.
    • Dulled Senses is not as effective as other two major adept traits. Therefore it is not being picked. I tested this trait and on average it provides 3 stacks of Vulnerablity.
    • Soaring Devastation is better than Dulled Senses but still not as good as Piercing Light. I think this skill should also provide evade.
    • Heavy Light provides good CC. But Stability part of this trait is useless. I just knocked back my enemy why would I need stab. This trait should give Swiftness, Super Speed or Quickness on successful knock back. I countered my opponent now it's my moment of opportunity to strike back.
    • The last thing is longbow nerfs. I think ANet should review it and buff certain lb skills. Dragonhunter does not have access to quickness to properly utilize ranged damage unlike Ranger or Deadeye. Therefore it's much weaker.
  • Snowjob.7245Snowjob.7245 Member ✭✭

    If in a fight where aegis can be stripped core guard has no offensive trait line to fall back on. And as already mentioned dragonhunter has cc built into its damaging spells as well as better blocking, mobility, and healing.

    Also core guard is not beating spellbreaker weaver or holo anyways so the things guard is useful for (blocking, mobility, aoe healing, and cc) core guard doesn't bring.

    I wouldn't mind some buffs to dragonhunter, but I hardly feel the sky is falling either.

  • Assic.2746Assic.2746 Member ✭✭✭

    Also core guard is not beating spellbreaker weaver or holo anyways

    That is not true (especially weaver part).

  • cat.8975cat.8975 Member ✭✭✭

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Exactly what I am trying to say, An elite spec SHOULD be an improvement to base and make you better.

    I disagree with this. Elite specs were never meant to be direct upgrades to their class, but rather a way to offer an alternative playstyle that can fulfill its own niche.

    Also worth mentioning is that base guard will only beat out DH on fights where they can maintain incredibly high aegis uptime. You're looking at golem benchmark numbers without taking the context of them into consideration. DH is also favorable for fights with short burst phases, due to much of the damage being loaded into the combo of 2x symbols, whirling wrath, the traps, sword of justice, and the spear.

    While I wish both builds were just a tiny bit stronger (Zeal/Rad/DH, Zeal/Rad/Virtues), I think we're in a pretty excellent state of balance for the class.

    I research the game numbers and do wiki stuff sometimes. If you have any questions about how damage is calculated, feel free to ask me (easier to hit me up on reddit @ towelcat though)

  • Snowjob.7245Snowjob.7245 Member ✭✭
    edited May 17, 2018

    @Assic.2746 said:

    Also core guard is not beating spellbreaker weaver or holo anyways

    That is not true (especially weaver part).

    https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats/area-15438
    https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats/area-15429
    https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats/area-15375

    Wut?

    I'd list all the bosses but I think you get the point.

  • Assic.2746Assic.2746 Member ✭✭✭

    I was talking about PvP.

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    In wvw with dh you can still have some fun, thief are your meal, and if you play you can even outplay those cheesy warriors and spellbreakers even if in my opinion, especially spellbreaker, counters dh pretty heavily.

    The problem is longbow is mandatory to combo with test of faith and 1200 range, that's why the weapon is taken. A spellbreaker have 10 times more survivability and his weapons does 3 times the damage of longbow combined with trap...

    But yeah anet usually never revert nerfs, and dh was nerfed quite a bit. So i dont know if they will plan to buff it again, but if gets buffed it wont be the only one so maybe it's useless.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If you think that Anet has the bandwidth to continually update ALL core and especs while continually releasing MORE every expansion, you're dreaming. They didn't even have the bandwidth to performance balance the core classes prior to HoT ... time to get acquainted with some reality here people.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Snowjob.7245Snowjob.7245 Member ✭✭

    @Assic.2746 said:
    I was talking about PvP.

    oh...

    Well then right you are.

  • Ezrael.6859Ezrael.6859 Member ✭✭✭

    For Longbow a simple change.

    Either revert the previous True Shot damage nerf.

    Or allow the skill to be used while moving at its current damage amount.

  • Arcaedus.7290Arcaedus.7290 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2018

    @Assic.2746 said:
    I was talking about PvP.

    The Marshall's weaver build can easily beat core-guard. Two patches ago when Cellofrag came out with that build, I dueled a guildie of mine using that build a bunch of times. No matter what I did to tweak my core-guard build or try and counter-build him, I couldn't even get close to breaking through the face-roll sustain of that build. That build has only been buffed since then so it's even more hopeless now.

    Core guard can kill holosmith (whereas DH cannot) but a very good one, probably not.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭

    @cat.8975 said:
    I disagree with this. Elite specs were never meant to be direct upgrades to their class, but rather a way to offer an alternative playstyle that can fulfill its own niche.

    Source?
    Dev Quote?
    Three year old statement by Mike O that can be somehow twisted to support this statement?

    I keep seeing people in balance discussions say this, despite zero developer quotes to back it up and two expansions filled with elite spec power creep.

    You might want elite specs to be merely a sidegrade, but we have a couple of years now of elites being blatant upgrades to core specs and zero developer quotes that back up this whole "elite specs were not meant to be a direct upgrade" rhetoric.
    Saying that is something a dev would have said.
    But not one has, as far as I know, and the content we have been delivered for the past few years proves your statement untrue.

  • Azoqu.8917Azoqu.8917 Member ✭✭✭

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @cat.8975 said:
    I disagree with this. Elite specs were never meant to be direct upgrades to their class, but rather a way to offer an alternative playstyle that can fulfill its own niche.

    Source?
    Dev Quote?
    Three year old statement by Mike O that can be somehow twisted to support this statement?

    I keep seeing people in balance discussions say this, despite zero developer quotes to back it up and two expansions filled with elite spec power creep.

    You might want elite specs to be merely a sidegrade, but we have a couple of years now of elites being blatant upgrades to core specs and zero developer quotes that back up this whole "elite specs were not meant to be a direct upgrade" rhetoric.
    Saying that is something a dev would have said.
    But not one has, as far as I know, and the content we have been delivered for the past few years proves your statement untrue.

    Not to add on the fact that Dragon Hunter was supossed to be the selfish, DPS spec. It should be the spec that does more damage than the other two because you are giving up suportive aspects to do so unlike the other two. Firebrand should be the offensive support spec while base Guardian is the defensive one but since Anet sucks at balancing we'll never see it.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭

    @Azoqu.8917 said:
    Not to add on the fact that Dragon Hunter was supossed to be the selfish, DPS spec.

    Source?
    Dev Quote?
    Puposefully misconstrued post by A-net Ben discussing Mistlocks?

    Yeah... I didn't think so.

    Maybe the problem isn't that "Anet sucks at balancing". Maybe the problem is the community's collective decision to base their own perceptions of a class's abilities around a single speedrun guild smacking on a golem that doesn't even hit back.

  • Snowjob.7245Snowjob.7245 Member ✭✭

    I dont think they're there yet, but if you look at the meta builds across all game types you'll find different specs from every class.

    Guardian for example

    In Raids you have condi firebrand, power dragonhunter, and power core guard. All useful in different scenarios.

    In Fractals, the same.

    In SPVP core guard and support firebrand both very good.

    In WvW support firebrand and dps firebrand see play in zergs with Dragonhunter being the best at roaming.

    If things were truly as bad as you say in every game type and in every role you'd see nothing but the new elite specs and that just isn't the case. Things are exactly like cat.8975 said despite whether a dev said those things or not. The argument is built directly into the traits and skills the specializations are given. Your argument is a bit like requiring a weatherman to tell you its raining before you believe the water coming from the sky is rain.

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I’d like to see small but impactful changes: 1) up the damage on True Shot 2) remove the root on True Shot 3) heal on Wings of Resolve happens on activation rather at end

  • Hyper Cutter.9376Hyper Cutter.9376 Member ✭✭✭

    Dragonhunter got nerfed down into the earth's core because idiots in PVP couldn't stop running headlong into piles of traps and kept crying to Anet.

    Now the traps do garbage damage, do garbage CC (slow is worthless against break bars compared to what they had before), the bow's been gutted in basically every respect...

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    To be fair DH does not fair poorly in this meta. It does well against scourge and Mesmer. It can hold well against most meta power builds. The problem is that every thing is way too slow. You move slowly. Your attacks are slow. Cast times are long. It is also highly susceptible to high power burst.

    It is a notch ahead of mediocre! Honestly, core guardian does not fair much better. Outside of FB bunker all guardian builds in spvp are meh. And Anet clearly does not give a flying kitten.

  • Ardenwolfe.8590Ardenwolfe.8590 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Be thankful. Guardians could be getting that 'special' attention rangers have been getting. :(

    No longer posting or playing.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Derm.4932 said:
    Guardian subforum isn't vocal enough. If you want your class to forever be meta like Mesmer then you have to complain about everything and pretend your meta spec is garbage until they buff it into godhood =)

    This is true. I keep an eye on all profession subforums and guardian subforum by far the most boring one. :lol:

  • aceofbass.2163aceofbass.2163 Member ✭✭✭

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Exactly what I am trying to say, An elite spec SHOULD be an improvement to base and make you better.

    This is an expectation set by the players.

    @mindcircus.1506 said:
    Source?
    Dev Quote?
    Three year old statement by Mike O that can be somehow twisted to support this statement?

    I keep seeing people in balance discussions say this, despite zero developer quotes to back it up and two expansions filled with elite spec power creep.

    You might want elite specs to be merely a sidegrade, but we have a couple of years now of elites being blatant upgrades to core specs and zero developer quotes that back up this whole "elite specs were not meant to be a direct upgrade" rhetoric.
    Saying that is something a dev would have said.
    But not one has, as far as I know, and the content we have been delivered for the past few years proves your statement untrue.

    So toxic.
    BTW,

    "Elite specializations

    In contrast to core specializations, which merely allow use of certain traits, choosing an elite specialization fundamentally changes abilities of a given profession by providing it access to a new weapon, healing skill, elite skill and a set of utility skills in addition to its own set of traits, as well as by altering or expanding on the base profession mechanic. All core profession skills, weapons and specializations are still available while an elite specialization is equipped. "

    It never stated it was supposed to be an upgrade for the core profession, it specifically stated "alter or expand the base profession mechanic" which in turn can fall into your more preferred playstyle and in that sense would be better for you or a certain role.

    I agree though that somehow anet made some e-specs merely just profession+ (like daredevil a more mobile thief, warrior with improved burst skills etc).

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aceofbass.2163 said:

    It never stated it was supposed to be an upgrade for the core profession, it specifically stated "alter or expand the base profession mechanic" which in turn can fall into your more preferred playstyle and in that sense would be better for you or a certain role.

    So in your opinion expand and upgrade aren't synonyms?

    The thing is with these Elite Specs that if you don't take anything away from them, they are upgrades by default. They certainly can't make something that's worse than the core profession. Oh wait, Renegade... Nvm.

  • JDub.1530JDub.1530 Member ✭✭✭

    expand = more
    upgrade = better

    Clearly the devs intended to give people MORE options. Whether those options are clearly better or not does not change that intent.

  • aceofbass.2163aceofbass.2163 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yannir.4132 said:
    So in your opinion expand and upgrade aren't synonyms?

    Obviously they are different.

    The thing is with these Elite Specs that if you don't take anything away from them, they are upgrades by default. They certainly can't make something that's worse than the core profession. Oh wait, Renegade... Nvm.

    Are you trying to say that if you take them away from core, you'll see they are upgrades? (Your statement was incomprehensible)

    As I've said, it was never the intent of the devs for e-specs to be upgrades but somehow managed to make some of them into one.

    Also, renegade is a good concept IMO, adding a dmg buffing specialization that is a great partner to the healing legend of rev, making rev more versatile.

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