WvW Priority of Condition cleaners

At first, yea i know Anet as usually will remove mxy post anyways, so fuck it.But why the fucking heck are movement impairing conditions not prioritized?! I'm sick of dieing alone because of all those cripple, chills and immobilizations that leave me completly alone from zerg. I#m so fucking sick of it, i'll soon start draining any fucking supplies of my server as soon as i'll die once again because of not prioritized removal of movement impairing conditions. Fuck this shite. You'll remove that post anyways, so simply fuck it.

As if i could remove immobilization 5 times per second, because that's the fucking speed it gets applied! fuck this. ffs.

So many fluffy, adorable kittens. You should take a deep breath, relax, and pet them. <3

For what? I can aswell insult around. Those fags will remove it so or so.

@Optimator.3589 said:So many fluffy, adorable kittens. You should take a deep breath, relax, and pet them. <3

They have claws.

~ Kovu

I know that pain. To many conditions just cluttering the system.

Almost every profession/espec has a reliable way to remove these, or in the worst case decrease their durations. Even then, there are rune sets you can pick that further shortens it. As far as I can tell, it's more a question of when you use your cleanse. I would suggest adding single cleanse sigils into your weapset if you feel it's not enough. Also remember that repeated applications of these effects can be effectively dodged, blocked or otherwise evaded. To top it off run -20% condi duration food. Unless you waste your cleanses on peanuts, this won't be an issue at all. I say this as a WvW warr driver.

It would be nice if there was a slip for soft cc clears and dmg clears in skill. Maybe even duel use where you can use a skill 2 times to clear one and then agen for the other type of clear. Passive clears staying the same as its always on.

What may be the best chose is making all movement skills clear soft cc and most clear skills just hit dmg condis. Making movement effects the counter to soft cc as they should be and blunt clear effects counter to taking dmg.

I like kittens too. Im glad you as well. Why would anet remove this post about kittens?

CLEANSE AWAY!19 bleeds later...asked this a few times.I need a new pic with the 20 stacks of torment I carry now.why add cleanse to ur build at all.so we all added resistance and learned to deal with the short span and actively managed our def/now with extended duration , I can get out and still die 10 sec later.nothing to do about it . passive damage on aoe spam as many stacks as you can

@rng.1024 said:Almost every profession/espec has a reliable way to remove these, or in the worst case decrease their durations. Even then, there are rune sets you can pick that further shortens it. As far as I can tell, it's more a question of when you use your cleanse. I would suggest adding single cleanse sigils into your weapset if you feel it's not enough. Also remember that repeated applications of these effects can be effectively dodged, blocked or otherwise evaded. To top it off run -20% condi duration food. Unless you waste your cleanses on peanuts, this won't be an issue at all. I say this as a WvW warr driver.

Actually, no they don't. Not all classes have the amazing trait warriors get where you can clear immob pretty much anytime you want. Even thief dodge took a hard nerf, yet warrior can still remove immob with, depending on your weapon set, 4 weapon skills, you don't even need to use a condi cleanse, and add to that the amount of resistance you get. No other class can deal with immob as easy as warrior can.

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@"rng.1024" said:Almost every profession/espec has a reliable way to remove these, or in the worst case decrease their durations. Even then, there are rune sets you can pick that further shortens it. As far as I can tell, it's more a question of when you use your cleanse. I would suggest adding single cleanse sigils into your weapset if you feel it's not enough. Also remember that repeated applications of these effects can be effectively dodged, blocked or otherwise evaded. To top it off run -20% condi duration food. Unless you waste your cleanses on peanuts, this won't be an issue at all. I say this as a WvW warr driver.

That's fair enough, although not the trait I was aiming for (don't even run discipline most days).https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Don%27t_Stophttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Geomancer%27s_Traininghttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_Marchhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Natural_Stridehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wings_of_Resolvehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Time_Marches_Onhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_of_Shadowshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mecha_Legshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Riposting_Shadows

Runesets (2 examples):https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Hoelbrakhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Svanir

Food (2 examples):https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Loaf_of_Saffron_Breadhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Red_Lentil_and_Flatbread_Feast

Most classes even have several traits to deal with specific movement impairing conditions, or cleanse on heal traits that would also help get rid of these. These are just some of them. Important note is that these duration effects are additive, so with a trait (-33%), food (-20%) and superior rune of The Centaur and Svanir you can limit the duration to atleast 50%, and in this case become completely immune to cripple or chill depending on which you have the most trouble with.

Granted immob has fewer counters than the other two effects, but the enemy still need to hit you with their skill (if a trait it has cd, if a weap skill it has long cast time, if utility skill these both points apply + you can see on the UI most of the time they have an active effect). If you still feel like after a massive cleanse you're still plagued by these, like I said earlier you should invest in small low cd cleanses and sigilshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Cleansinghttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Generosity

I'm writing this with WvW in mind, because in PvP access to both impairing conditions, their durations and counters are severly limited. Thing is if you've ever fought an immob ranger without reliable cleanse, you'll know very well to save your cleanse for the right skills else you will lose - no matter how good you play. If we scale this up to zerg fights more factors come in play, like positioning, party guardian, knowing when you can surge and predicting when you will get focus fire. All these come with experience, and if you invest a little in blocks, invulns, extra evades or reflects (all classes can utilize atleast 1 of these more effectively than others) you shouldn't get caught unless you mess up - doesn't mean the game is broken. It's bound to get messy in a 50v50 and you need to take precautions or you will struggle. I didn't even want to touch resistance in this or the previous post, not only because I think it's an unfair buff to begin with, but because it's use is vastly restricted to specific classes and rather rare to begin with. For me this is what I use to wait out my UI full of condies most of the time:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiant_StanceIf you choose to run meta signet(f.ex) then DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK. If your resistance get stripped don't come crying to me because there are better options more suited for different situations. Seriously give the stance a go after a yolo push if you have an alt warrior, and I promise you the pressure will vanish within the traited duration. 4 seconds is all you need if you can break LoS, block or otherwise avoid reapplication of said condis.

All this being said, I do agree that some classes (with addition of especs) have gone rampant in both access and duration of both specific boons and condis (especially these 3 that impairs movement). But I also think it's important to keep in mind that with the addition of resistance and an increase in mobility all over the board for professions this was a necessary move in order for alot of traits and skills to be relevant, and this magnifies tenfold when it comes to group play. They get more ways to apply it, you get more ways to counter it. Somewhere down along the line we started expecting 1v2 or 1v3 fights should be easy (heyo scourge), but naturally you should have a much harder time cleansing the conditions of two oppononents at the same time, and thus we habe the illusion about unbalance when it's nothing more than the same mechanics that were always there and you not being on top of your game, or not taking the steps necessary to give you an edge. Because the opponent decides what you'll need, not what you find fancy or people who already know all of this by heart and play accordingly use. And that is why meta builds won't save you.

I think it's important now, more than ever for everybody to take their time learning this game, figure out what works for them, and find a playstyle they enjoy. Meta only forces countermeta and you get a vicious cycle of gameplay that's not fun for anybody to play, and they are only used because people don't take the time to learn the new specs and mechanics (thieves I salute you). It's time we bring back the diversity, and make x on x combat fun again. Lastly, it's important to note the difference between a disadvantage and being outplayed. If your opponent wins because he took the steps necessary and you didn't - he deserved the win. Doesn't mean you can't - just means you have to work a little harder. And this is why I still immensely enjoy playing this game :)

I agree though, we are long overdue for a split between cleanse of damaging conditions and control conditions. Even would go so far as to attach these to (with the last in first out) leaps for movement impairing conditions, on dodge for blind and vulnerability, weakness and poison on heal, and so forth. So you deal with them actively gated by cd's and recovery, leaving the cleanses (which is why they didn't have to buff these adding powercreep) to deal mostly with pure dmg condis.

@rng.1024 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@rng.1024 said:Almost every profession/espec has a reliable way to remove these, or in the worst case decrease their durations. Even then, there are rune sets you can pick that further shortens it. As far as I can tell, it's more a question of when you use your cleanse. I would suggest adding single cleanse sigils into your weapset if you feel it's not enough. Also remember that repeated applications of these effects can be effectively dodged, blocked or otherwise evaded. To top it off run -20% condi duration food. Unless you waste your cleanses on peanuts, this won't be an issue at all. I say this as a WvW warr driver.

So you're gonna quote a Ele trait that doesnt even come close to a warrior trait, and a trait that no one outside of a support Tempest runs, and if you run support tempest, you are a secondary condi cleanse bot next to you firebrand, but alone you cant clear immob reliably, unless you give up one of your best trait as a tempest, which is healing for 1k+ when you share an aura? Is that the trait you are referencing?

I run warrior and guard and fb.of theses warrior has the least anti-condi capability whilst maintaing a sensible build.also the bulk of the armour advantage is wasted.

Idk man I prefer not to die in 2 seconds over being able to move

@Miko.4158 said:I run warrior and guard and fb.of theses warrior has the least anti-condi capability whilst maintaing a sensible build.also the bulk of the armour advantage is wasted.

Berserker Stance is good, but it pulses resistance and isn't a cleanse so the point still stands. Shake it Off is really good too, but fitting it in the build is the question. I wish Discipline AND Defense weren't both pretty much mandatory so you could run something else more often, like running the shout traits

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@rng.1024 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@rng.1024 said:Almost every profession/espec has a reliable way to remove these, or in the worst case decrease their durations. Even then, there are rune sets you can pick that further shortens it. As far as I can tell, it's more a question of when you use your cleanse. I would suggest adding single cleanse sigils into your weapset if you feel it's not enough. Also remember that repeated applications of these effects can be effectively dodged, blocked or otherwise evaded. To top it off run -20% condi duration food. Unless you waste your cleanses on peanuts, this won't be an issue at all. I say this as a WvW warr driver.

It seems to me you are referencing "Warrior's Sprint" instead of the one I actually listed, which was "Dogged March". And even then it's 6 sec regen (on a warr with no healpower) versus a 20% cd reduction to 1/4 of your weapon skills. To me it's simple seeing which has the most use. If your issue still lies with "Warrior's Sprint" it's most likely from way back when anet wanted the professions to feel differently, as this gave warriors and edge and allowed them to stay mobile. They still have to sacrifice in weapon choices in order to achieve getting the most from this trait, but in the end it means just bait his Rush engage and wait for his followup Whirlwind Attack before you use your immob - that's it. This is called tactics, and if the game didn't require some form of forward thinking it would be incredibly boring. Most important is finding ways to deal with it, and 1v1 fights usually help alot. We don't want our traits playing for us.

As for support tempest being secondary cleanse bot, I don't remember bringing that up. I'm fine with that anyways, because the support style is very different from firebrand f.ex (with it's 360° heals, unstrippable auras and so forth). Guardians need a place too :)

I also do run Tempest. Trust me that 1k burst heal can so easily be replaced by healing over time, leaving the trait mediocre at best. What I suggest you run instead if you're having trouble is Water/Earth/Tempest. For condi removal these are the traits you should look for:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diamond_Skinhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Wave_(trait)https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Waterhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invigorating_Torrents

As you might have noticed I don't even run aurashare on weap skills because they are gated behind such a long cd that the 1 skill (2 for dual daggers) of each weapset that grants it doesn't cut it. If a 1k heal every 30 secs is all that's keeping you alive, then you're doing something wrong. Also make sure to use all tempest auras, whether it's traited on overload, utility skills or the elite (just mind the 5 sec delay), because they all by default share between 5 people and are available at all times not requiring attunement swap for faster paced fights. If you really really need you can use the tempest grandmaster trait you are referencing, but I find Imbued Melodies to be far more useful (especially with that earth 20% cd reduction from before) for my party as I enjoy being on the frontline of zergs. Again, if you are having issues take the steps necessary to remedy that. No trait is mandatory, but you'll soon find that some are alot more convenient for your playstyle. Instead of just spamming auras, how about timing your attunement swaps, making sure allies got perma regen and vigor for more damage mitigation. Active defense beats traited defense any day, which is why hanging onto a beloved trait because it's supposed to be the best doesn't really help you improve. The "necessary" traits you should actually be able to shed after a while as you get better, like we all did in PvE at some point from tough/vit to more dmg. You're only truly free to create your own metabuilds when you get that good with your profession, and alot of people forget this.

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@rng.1024 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@rng.1024 said:Almost every profession/espec has a reliable way to remove these, or in the worst case decrease their durations. Even then, there are rune sets you can pick that further shortens it. As far as I can tell, it's more a question of when you use your cleanse. I would suggest adding single cleanse sigils into your weapset if you feel it's not enough. Also remember that repeated applications of these effects can be effectively dodged, blocked or otherwise evaded. To top it off run -20% condi duration food. Unless you waste your cleanses on peanuts, this won't be an issue at all. I say this as a WvW warr driver.

Also, if alone you shouldn't even rely on cleanses to deal with immob - learn what skills to look for and actively avoid getting hit by them. This is crucial against any good condi player. The more players you face, the more traits and skills matter.

@rng.1024 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@rng.1024 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@rng.1024 said:Almost every profession/espec has a reliable way to remove these, or in the worst case decrease their durations. Even then, there are rune sets you can pick that further shortens it. As far as I can tell, it's more a question of when you use your cleanse. I would suggest adding single cleanse sigils into your weapset if you feel it's not enough. Also remember that repeated applications of these effects can be effectively dodged, blocked or otherwise evaded. To top it off run -20% condi duration food. Unless you waste your cleanses on peanuts, this won't be an issue at all. I say this as a WvW warr driver.

I run max condi clear on my roaming weaver. Water/arcane, clear condis passively like crazy, and I still end up clearing everything but immob. And I don't know any support tempest that doesnt run the heal on aurashare. You also can't overload anytime you want, so it's not a reliable source to clear immob.

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@rng.1024 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@rng.1024 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@rng.1024 said:Almost every profession/espec has a reliable way to remove these, or in the worst case decrease their durations. Even then, there are rune sets you can pick that further shortens it. As far as I can tell, it's more a question of when you use your cleanse. I would suggest adding single cleanse sigils into your weapset if you feel it's not enough. Also remember that repeated applications of these effects can be effectively dodged, blocked or otherwise evaded. To top it off run -20% condi duration food. Unless you waste your cleanses on peanuts, this won't be an issue at all. I say this as a WvW warr driver.

That's bound to happen if you try to clear condis as they come in - immob is quite the potent one, and usually used with cover condis on top. No class can alone consistently reapply it without sacrificing either damage for duration or utility skill slots (like arcane eles), and even then you have a big sign over their bar telling you to watch out. Not sure what your issue is, but since most standard durations of immob are around 1-2 sec I'm thinking someone uses it and then try to burst - these are habits you need to pick up on and save some cleanse for, because you won't need to cleanse the small dmg condis like bleed or vulnerability most of the time. Blind is also better removed by hitting and missing rather than cleansing. Point is you need to play proactively, don't get hit by the bomb and be annoyed the game don't help you get out, the entire point is to not get hit by it at all saving your cleanses for more dire situations and leaving the enemy with absolutely no burst left. Like I said before, if you do a mass cleanse and immob is left then slot in 1 cleansing sigil and swap to any attunement and you are free to escape no hassle. Or since you use arcane, slot the generosity sigil and crit away from range. As an ele you are one of the most versatile professions in this game, and arguably the best when it comes to being anti-condi without resistance. And I agree, don't rely on overloads for anything as they leave you very vulnerable so timing is crucial. Until you learn to better predict when immob hits and when to cleanse, do what you have to do whether it's:

• Run heal cantrip
• Run cleansing fire (traited or util or both)
• Runes + food for a 45% duration reduction
• Water signet for 20% duration reduction more
• Get hit on purpose for diamond skin
• Cleanse on regen trait
• Cleanse sigil/generosity
• Cleanse on water attunement
• Use evades (the new flashy weaver spin) while immob to avoid further dmg or application

To me it doesn't sound like your issue is with clearing condis, but with immob being left on you most of the time though. There really only are two fixes for this - the first condition to be cleared is usually the last on that got applied to you. This means the faster you are to cleanse, the more likely you will remove it before more condis come (instant cleanse is key). The other is to avoid the skills with it coming your way entirely, as most of them are projectiles tempest is adept at this. Weaver can evade alot on low cd's so they both work.

It's also possible you don't pressure your enemy enough, allowing them to set up elaborate sequences of skills that if you get caught it's over. Good players will do this (you know if you've duelled good FA eles) so if you pressure them they won't have the time to scheme and you might not even get immobilized because they panic. It's a common habit of players nowadays to play reactively, expecting to be able to outheal and outcleanse to keep going, but that's not at all how this game works. You pay for your mistakes, and zerker vs zerker a burst missed is a free win. Damage will always overwhelm defense, as it should be. This is why proactive play is so important, as almost all attacks in this game can be evaded, and most of them blocked.

If your issue is against different classes, or knowing when to expect immob I really recommend (for everyone) to try playing a full zerker thief with just 1 cleanse (like generosity sigil for good measure). Duel every class with it and trust me you will learn what to look for or spend 99% of the time on the ground.

For zergs, it's all about positioning (whether behind or in front of your guard wall), knowing when to surge (pass the wall or retreat behind it), feeling when the pressure increases (when to use your evades/blocks), knowing when you mess up (you will get bursted down in 1 sec by focus fire, time to use your emergency escape skill) and managing your cd's. Preferably you should surge into the enemy, do your damage before you emergency surge back and cleanse like mad, get heals and wait out your cd's before you surge again. This means if you get stuck 1000 units from your group by a bomb it's very much your own fault. Learn your limits and play accordingly. Or do like me, jump headfirst in and see how long you can survive, then make adjustments so you'll last longer next time because that's what I find fun :)

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@rng.1024 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@rng.1024 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@rng.1024 said:Almost every profession/espec has a reliable way to remove these, or in the worst case decrease their durations. Even then, there are rune sets you can pick that further shortens it. As far as I can tell, it's more a question of when you use your cleanse. I would suggest adding single cleanse sigils into your weapset if you feel it's not enough. Also remember that repeated applications of these effects can be effectively dodged, blocked or otherwise evaded. To top it off run -20% condi duration food. Unless you waste your cleanses on peanuts, this won't be an issue at all. I say this as a WvW warr driver.

Forgot to mention as a tempest you are also the mobile healer, your job is mostly to help people recover behind the main line, or keep them healthy during the winning push. As ele is by far the squishiest profession in game it's kinda difficult playing it like a frontliner, but if you stick with the guards there should be enough overflowing heals and boons, so any extra healing you can add would be very welcome. What I mean with main line is usually where the commander is, and the guards stacked around them.

@"Miko.4158" said:

CLEANSE AWAY!19 bleeds later...asked this a few times.I need a new pic with the 20 stacks of torment I carry now.why add cleanse to ur build at all.so we all added resistance and learned to deal with the short span and actively managed our def/now with extended duration , I can get out and still die 10 sec later.nothing to do about it . passive damage on aoe spam as many stacks as you can

playing axe/axe core warrior in zerg and complain about condis lolgeez dudei agree condis are bad, but your build is worse