What did the devs think of speedclear builds? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

What did the devs think of speedclear builds?

When teams of terra perma sins speed cleared the Underworld and the Fissure of Woe, as well as all the dungeon in Eye of the North, what did the devs think of this?

Was it ever intended? Was anyone desperate to get it nerfed or reinforced?

The assassin speed running community was always something I really enjoyed and I always wondered to what extent the devs took notice of it.

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  • Oh, we noticed. We talked about it a lot, actually. The addition of Dhuum as the Underworld end boss was in part a response to speed clears. I was looking to slow them down without a lot of hard counters in the content or major balance changes to the classes. I figured adding new content would help mitigate the bit of a nerf it was getting. Ultimately, I think where our minds landed on things like speed clears, solo farms, and other extreme methods of play, is that players enjoy it and if it is not hurting anything, we should let them.

    Lead Game Designer with a primary focus on Living World content/story

  • One of my favorites was the solo speedclear build on Ele for the final Shiro encounter in Factions. I made so much gold off of running that for people and it was so satisfying to watch his health bar melt away. Especially after all of the trouble he gave when I first fought him after the release of Factions.

  • Agrios.1957Agrios.1957 Member ✭✭

    @Pi Slinger.5801 said:
    One of my favorites was the solo speedclear build on Ele for the final Shiro encounter in Factions. I made so much gold off of running that for people and it was so satisfying to watch his health bar melt away. Especially after all of the trouble he gave when I first fought him after the release of Factions.

    Do you still remember this build? Does it still work? Looks like the thing I'd love to do.

  • Pi Slinger.5801Pi Slinger.5801 Member ✭✭
    edited May 25, 2018

    @Agrios.1957 said:

    @Pi Slinger.5801 said:
    One of my favorites was the solo speedclear build on Ele for the final Shiro encounter in Factions. I made so much gold off of running that for people and it was so satisfying to watch his health bar melt away. Especially after all of the trouble he gave when I first fought him after the release of Factions.

    Do you still remember this build? Does it still work? Looks like the thing I'd love to do.

    It took a little digging on PvX, so I'm not sure if it still works (still considered Meta?), but here's a link to it: https://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Build:E/Me_Imperial_Sanctum_Runner

    Good 'ole Imperial Sanctum Runner. It's a bit difficult to nail down due to some of the AI, but once you master the positioning (basically, mimic the standing position in the video), it's pretty satisfying and consistent.

  • @LinseyMurdock.4165 said:
    Oh, we noticed. We talked about it a lot, actually. The addition of Dhuum as the Underworld end boss was in part a response to speed clears. I was looking to slow them down without a lot of hard counters in the content or major balance changes to the classes. I figured adding new content would help mitigate the bit of a nerf it was getting. Ultimately, I think where our minds landed on things like speed clears, solo farms, and other extreme methods of play, is that players enjoy it and if it is not hurting anything, we should let them.

    With Gaile Gray's stance about external programs in mind...
    Speed Clear's are by definition used with external programs to use (p)cons, extra detailed mini map, skip dialogue's and more to reach records. How come Speed Clears are still being allowed when it gives them an advantage over other players?

    "if it is not hurting anything, we should let them."
    If you are a player and want to enter Speed Clears, your only chance is to get in there by using programs which aren't allowed.

  • Boro.7359Boro.7359 Member ✭✭
    edited May 25, 2018

    @LinseyMurdock.4165 said:
    Oh, we noticed. We talked about it a lot, actually. The addition of Dhuum as the Underworld end boss was in part a response to speed clears. I was looking to slow them down without a lot of hard counters in the content or major balance changes to the classes. I figured adding new content would help mitigate the bit of a nerf it was getting. Ultimately, I think where our minds landed on things like speed clears, solo farms, and other extreme methods of play, is that players enjoy it and if it is not hurting anything, we should let them.

    You did that by adding additional pressure through skeletons of dhuum, which made things even worse for regular players as the level of pressure on certain quests (Dryders in the Wastes quest defending the reaper and the king, mindblade spectres) was already a lot. Meanwhile it added a slight challenge to R/A runners who could just lure in the whole wastes and trigger whirling defense to mob them down using their own attacks, to which they were practically immune to anyways, and the spell pressure from dryders never bothered them. On that note you never addressed Dying Nightmares, which were explicitly added to prevent 55 monks from having an easy time there. Finally, since speed runs can split up easily to different specialized solo farmer builds, they can run the area more far more quickly than balanced groups that need to stay together, and to them, Dhuum is a lot easier to handle.

    So could you please explain how these were supposed to be "not hurting anyone"?

    (Sorry to bring up this bad bone from the past. But it did prevent me and a LOT of players from forming PuGs to these areas.)

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