Too many nerfs required to balance the game...start buffing instead

People like to call it "powercreep" ...but I like to call it : "most sensible solution" .

The current TOP professions are so far ahead that in reality we would need years worth of nerfs/changes to bring them in line with the rest, years is what you need to apply an uniform risk/reward ratio to all classes and all of you should realise that this is not feasible, not with this balance team and level of commitment.

The unequal distribution of defensive mechanism and efficient offensive mechanics , it's too ingrained into the game to be changed with nerfs at this point, unless you destroy the very concept of low risk=high reward, players will always gravitate towards it . If all of you really want to balance the game through nerfs then....we should start from the foundations by removing stealth and passive invulnerability, also total invulnerability mechanics like distortion , we should remove stunlock, condi and boon spam....basically we should rewrite the whole damn game from scratch.

You can keep nerfing mesmer, necro, warrrior to oblivion....players will simply bandwagon to the next thing because low risk=high reward is now part of the "culture" of this game, it's what the playerbase has been fed for years and it's what they expect now.

I realise now that no amount of nerfs will solve mesmer problem for example, the traitlines for this class are so....busted that's no matter what you nerf ..they can come up always on top so why keep nerfing them instead than buff the traitlines for all others?

You nerf so everyone isn’t running around 1 shotting each other. Lower TTK = lower skill cap.

Agreed. Buff Spellbreaker bubbles. 30 sec CD, double the duration, make it instant cast, and instead of absorbs projectiles reflects would be more fun. Maybe make it move with the Spellbreaker but idk that may be op.

No, no no no no no no no no no no no no no

Edit: No no no no

@Arheundel.6451 said:

I realise now that no amount of nerfs will solve mesmer problem for example, the traitlines for this class are so....busted that's no matter what you nerf ..they can come up always on top so why keep nerfing them instead than buff the traitlines for all others?

They're almost balanced. All that's left is Elusive mind. put a hefty ICD on it and the rest can be handled with learning the MU.

@"Arheundel.6451" said:People like to call it "powercreep" ...but I like to call it : "most sensible solution" .

Here is a secret: a buff to one class is the same as a nerf to all other classes!

No NoNo NoNo NoNo No

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:

I realise now that no amount of nerfs will solve mesmer problem for example, the traitlines for this class are so....busted that's no matter what you nerf ..they can come up always on top so why keep nerfing them instead than buff the traitlines for all others?

You can talk about MU only when a class has at least 2 bad ones out of any meta...not when your only possible bad MU is an "unicorn" not meta build played at semi WTS levels, nerfing EM won't strip mirage of their OP elite jaunt with which they can outrun/catch...everything?!, won't remove their stealth into distortion and won't remove their GS one shot combo and also it won't remove their spammable reflect heal/trait combo....basically you can speak about MU when your spec stop having the edge over 99% of the game..

@SlippyCheeze.5483 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:People like to call it "powercreep" ...but I like to call it :

"most sensible solution"

.

Yes...given that some classes have received nothing but buffs for the last 5 years since HoT launch...I'd say that we need an equal amount of nerfs in terms of years

@SlippyCheeze.5483 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:People like to call it "powercreep" ...but I like to call it :

"most sensible solution"

.

@Brother.1504 said:

@SlippyCheeze.5483 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:People like to call it "powercreep" ...but I like to call it :

"most sensible solution"

.

Isn't that why OP asks to buff classes?

Instead of nerfing 5 classes, why not buff 2-3.

@"Arheundel.6451" said:People like to call it "powercreep" ...but I like to call it : "dumbest idea ever" .FTFY

You can't view a class as an atomic entity. You don't apply buffs across the board. Buffs (and nerfs) are applied to specific abilities within each class. When you correctly view classes this way, a lot of stuff is fine; only a handful is too strong. It's much easier to bring the few things back into line.

Further, the idea of buffing everything kills fun. If everyone can ignore damage by chaining defensive abilities for 10-20 seconds and repeat that in each fight, then in order to kill anyone, damage needs to be so high as to kill in a short window. You're approaching the "one-shot" problem where whoever hits the button first wins the fight and it's pointless to hit any buttons until the defensive cooldown chains ends. Sure it's "balanced" but it becomes brainless and not fun.

Finding the point where it's not an instant 100 to 0 burst and preventing unkillable classes is pretty difficult

@Exedore.6320 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:People like to call it "powercreep" ...but I like to call it :

"dumbest idea ever"

.FTFY

If some professions can chain defensive abilities for 10-20s...how long do we need to nerf those classes?You think mesmer is the only class that can chain defensive abilities for up to 20s?....even something like a DH can do that, a war can do that, an engi......if you lot don't want all professions to have the ability of chaining defences for 10-20s...when do we start nerfing the professions who can?

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Brother.1504 said:

@SlippyCheeze.5483 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:People like to call it "powercreep" ...but I like to call it :

"most sensible solution"

.

Hey, that's a great idea. Imagine if they were to, say, pick elementalist for that. They could increase the damage of Impale, Lightning Touch, Drake's Breath, Shatterstone, Ashen Blast, Steam Surge, and reduce the cooldown of things to make them usable more often, like Static Field, and Boil, and they could increase the defensive values of skills like Stone Resonance, or tune Glyph of Storms.

They could buff Ranger too, imagine: increase the damage of Stab, and Jab, rework the final part of the sequence with a higher damage attack, buff ...

...or Thief. They could buff Thief. Imagine increasing the damage of Deadly Strike, Stab, and Jab! Increase the healing of Skelk Venom, drop the cooldown on Assassin's Signet, and Signet of Shadows. Bump up a whole slew of things.

Just imagine a universe where ANet made those changes to a handful of classes!

plenty of things could be buffed. this could lead to some new possibilities. idk about buffing > nerfing in terms of balance tho. it makes no sense to leave something op and give op to other classes.

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:plenty of things could be buffed. this could lead to some new possibilities. idk about buffing > nerfing in terms of balance tho. it makes no sense to leave something op and give op to other classes.

Balance requires both. Oddly enough, ANet both buff and nerf things over time. Whoda thunk it?

Not everyone is gonna agree with you on the last, though. Some folks really, really love power creep in games. It's probably, to be honest, the biggest complaint I see against GW2: because you stop gaining gear based power, and fairly quickly stop gaining mastery and elite spec based power, a whole slew of people feel like there is "no progression, so why on earth would you play?"

Don't mend the broken bones, make the muscles stronger!..no

@SlippyCheeze.5483 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Brother.1504 said:

@SlippyCheeze.5483 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:People like to call it "powercreep" ...but I like to call it :

"most sensible solution"

.

My thought was also along with Ele and Rev...

Op sort of has a point, it would take years of nerfs to 5+ classes to bring them in line with those 2... Would make sense to buff those and then see where it stands, make nerfs after those buffs (My ele is D/D... I need buffs plz)

They're almost balanced. All that's left is Elusive mind. put a hefty ICD on it and the rest can be handled with learning the MU.Nerf the constant stealth condi burst, perma mobility, perma invuln of mesmer's in general (worst offender of this is mirage hands down), knock scourge's barrier heal by 5 seconds, hit spellbreaker's sustain (2 stacks of adrenaline health), lower firefrand's access and ability to spit out stab like it's candy and lower Engi's damage reduction because their sustain is way to how for how bursty they are (iron blooded is the biggest offender here and the heat generation of photon leap should be doubled. Currently only 7% for an ability that gives you swiftness and is a gapcloser in and of itself). Now we'd be in business.

@Blocki.4931 said:Finding the point where it's not an instant 100 to 0 burst and preventing unkillable classes is pretty difficult

This. Neither extreme is fun - not 100-0 one second fights, nor endless bunker skill rotation fights. But I don't think it's easy to find the middle ground across all classes.

@"Dralor.3701" said:You nerf so everyone isn’t running around 1 shotting each other. Lower TTK = lower skill cap.

hehehe reason why this game TTK is based on very very low TTK :astonished:

Also gimmicks and rotations is another game changer to make a game more friendly to lower skill players.

In a more serious note, Anet needs to make difference from block, reflect, absorbtion, and each one needs its own counter individually, but i guess that would be to much hard for the player quality Anet targets with this game.

Low TTK where teamwork is mostly not needed.Spamable skill design "complexity"Powercreep momentum to pretend theres a counter, its rather artificial and forced counter based on damage output than rather a true rock paper scizor effect.Poor iteration between classes and skills, since only damage output is needed.

I cant see where this pvp game failed...

@"Arheundel.6451" said:People like to call it "powercreep" ...but I like to call it : "most sensible solution" .

The current TOP professions are so far ahead that in reality we would need years worth of nerfs/changes to bring them in line with the rest, years is what you need to apply an uniform risk/reward ratio to all classes and all of you should realise that this is not feasible, not with this balance team and level of commitment.

The unequal distribution of defensive mechanism and efficient offensive mechanics , it's too ingrained into the game to be changed with nerfs at this point, unless you destroy the very concept of low risk=high reward, players will always gravitate towards it . If all of you really want to balance the game through nerfs then....we should start from the foundations by removing stealth and passive invulnerability, also total invulnerability mechanics like distortion , we should remove stunlock, condi and boon spam....basically we should rewrite the whole kitten game from scratch.

You can keep nerfing mesmer, necro, warrrior to oblivion....players will simply bandwagon to the next thing because low risk=high reward is now part of the "culture" of this game, it's what the playerbase has been fed for years and it's what they expect now.

I realise now that no amount of nerfs will solve mesmer problem for example, the traitlines for this class are so....busted that's no matter what you nerf ..they can come up always on top so why keep nerfing them instead than buff the traitlines for all others?

You must be new here...We are just now 3 years later addressing the H.O.T's Specs. pvpwise.The power creep is real. Lol

Anet can't collect data on a player-base that is dwindling in this area.The longer OBVIOUS changes take the more fed up players become. We've been here so many times before...people mock like it can't get any worse...yet it has.It's routine to mock players leaving until you get to this point, the point we are at now.

However...something PVP'ers don't realize. I am pretty sure they don't generate NREALY as much revenue as PVE'ers.That being said, while it may seem, which many plyaers said during the release of HOT, that this is a short term solutionIt wont last in the long run. Power creeping your way to boost revenue doesn't work. Leads to endless powercreep aka p2wAnd that's exactly what it's been Core to HOT and now HOT to POWNeed I remind you Gw2 also gained the stench of F2P (drastically made the game worse as they weren't prepared to manage a F2P)P2W and F2P Yeah...no.

The late game catches up with you which is what we are seeing now.The late game of Elite Specs from HoT's not looking so good...now with PoF. Even worseCore players were really disenfranchised....new core players are REALLY not going to go for this foolishness.HoT players are feeling that now...and just what do you think all those PoF players are thinking?They'll be immune? Ha!Sure.

Keep the nerf bat swingging.You don't have to rewrite the entire game...just that absolute horrendous mockery of PVP.But I am almost certain that wont happen...

1. because it doesn't matter. Most of Gw2's fame was actually based heavily on wow...what I mean. C.T.F.D!Gw2 made a huge fuss about being the Wow Killer, and the Buy to play MMO and that Micro transactions Models work.Well...Yeah that lasted for like 3 years and with each buff HOT now POF it seems things have gotten worse and drastically worse in both Pve and Pvp

2. Gw2 is old it's yesterdays news...not becasue of it's age but becasue Anet ultimately failed to strike while the Iron was Hot.I don't think you understand the level of expectations core players had for this game moving forward. Many many people had incredibly high hopes for Gw2 to be different and not commonplace mediocrity and it was for a while.The Combat was Unique but...slowly people realized that was about all that was really unique... Combat alone and MMO doesn't make.It's just this litany of missed opportunities mostly from Anet not having people capable enough to do the job. This was said often in the face of good and great ideas.

3. We ARE the life support. The reason little changes have happened is becasue if any "changes" occur it drives off the life support players. low risk - high reward playersGw2 is in this stagnant rut. What I mean is if Anet changes the out with the old in with the new cadence people won't likely buy into the game in significant levels.But that also means...players who enjoy the game and it's state are likely to leave. I'd rather have neutered classes across the board if it means the over all health of a game is better. But it's like you said...the culture that Anet fostered in this game will be it's ruin. <----This is not new it's been said and said and said and said and said but players always want to feel some kind of wayThe people that depend more so on broken mechanics than actual exchange of skill are the FOCUS of this game. period.The players you NEED in this game aren't interested in it...anymore.Broadcasting your made all your classes weaker to the general public...isn't going to bode well

We all remember the sting of a failed esports league...another moment Anet missed likely becasue they didn't have/couldn't pay the talent to rectify the issues or...probably just thought they'll cash in on Espurtz, yeah no. Anet probably doesn't want to double down on that game-wide level of embarrassment.

It's these things that has gw2 in this loop of "this ish ain't working" but, they can't stop.I am not saying I know everything but this is just how it seems to me.

TL;DR You're asking Anet for a better game by having them do the exact things that made it worse. No. More. Power. Creep.If there is another Exp planned I'm sure the bottom of Hot and Core players will surely drop out. Anet is either going to have to cater to them or force them to buy up (or aka cut them out) They will probably just bow out seeing this for a 3rd time in a row being expected to wait 3 years for more appropriate balance passes.

Yeah right.

"look fixing the middle east is too much effort, let's nuke them already, should be better for the people there"

@Taltevus.3289 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:People like to call it "powercreep" ...but I like to call it :

"most sensible solution"

.

The current TOP professions are so far ahead that in reality we would need years worth of nerfs/changes to bring them in line with the rest, years is what you need to apply an uniform risk/reward ratio to all classes and all of you should realise that this is not feasible, not with this balance team and level of commitment.

The unequal distribution of defensive mechanism and efficient offensive mechanics , it's too ingrained into the game to be changed with nerfs at this point, unless you destroy the very concept of

low risk=high reward

, players will always gravitate towards it . If all of you really want to balance the game through nerfs then....we should start from the foundations by removing

stealth and passive invulnerability, also total invulnerability mechanics like distortion

, we should remove stunlock, condi and boon spam....basically we should rewrite the whole kitten game from scratch.

You can keep nerfing mesmer, necro, warrrior to oblivion....players will simply bandwagon to the next thing because low risk=high reward is now part of the "culture" of this game, it's what the playerbase has been fed for years and it's what they expect now.

I realise now that no amount of nerfs will solve mesmer problem for example, the traitlines for this class are so....busted that's no matter what you nerf ..they can come up always on top so why keep nerfing them instead than buff the traitlines for all others?

1. because it doesn't matter. Most of Gw2's fame was actually based heavily on wow...what I mean. C.T.F.D!Gw2 made a huge fuss about being the Wow Killer, and the Buy to play MMO and that Micro transactions Models work.Well...Yeah that lasted for like 3 years and with each buff HOT now POF it seems things have gotten worse and drastically worse in both Pve and Pvp

2. Gw2 is old it's yesterdays news...not becasue of it's age but becasue Anet ultimately failed to strike while the Iron was Hot.I don't think you understand the level of expectations core players had for this game moving forward. Many many people had incredibly high hopes for Gw2 to be different and not commonplace mediocrity and it was for a while.The Combat was Unique but...slowly people realized that was about all that was really unique... Combat alone and MMO doesn't make.It's just this litany of missed opportunities mostly from Anet not having people capable enough to do the job. This was said often in the face of good and great ideas.

3. We ARE the life support. The reason little changes have happened is becasue if any "changes" occur it drives off the life support players. low risk - high reward playersGw2 is in this stagnant rut. What I mean is if Anet changes the out with the old in with the new cadence people won't likely buy into the game in significant levels.But that also means...players who enjoy the game and it's state are likely to leave. I'd rather have neutered classes across the board if it means the over all health of a game is better. But it's like you said...the culture that Anet fostered in this game will be it's ruin. <----This is not new it's been said and said and said and said and said but players always want to feel some kind of wayThe people that depend more so on broken mechanics than actual exchange of skill are the FOCUS of this game. period.The players you NEED in this game aren't interested in it...anymore.Broadcasting your made all your classes weaker to the general public...isn't going to bode well

You first state to "keep swinging the nerf bat"...then you say that nerfs will drive away the low risk high reward pop which is 90% of the GW2 pop...your post is contradictory and anyway it leads back to what I am trying to say ; "you can't keep swinging the nerf bat long or hard enough without driving away players used to low risk=high reward gameplay"

But the majority of people sadly can't understand properly the full context; they simply read "buff>nerf" and follow the herd mentality of buff=powercreep banter