[WvW] Will the last tempest/core Ele plz turn out the light?

Tempest and Core Elementalist seems to have a rapidly degrading reputation under WvW squads and commanders, with commanders/lieutenants requesting to change class, making jokes about them or sometimes even kicking them. Do we need a PR campaign to polish the reputation of these specs?

I'm the only tempest in squad, scourges are clearly dominating the battle field according to the numbers.

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:Tempest and Core Elementalist seems to have a rapidly degrading reputation under WvW squads and commanders, with commanders/lieutenants requesting to change class, making jokes about them or sometimes even kicking them. Do we need a PR campaign to polish the reputation of these specs?I'm the only tempest in squad, scourges are clearly dominating the battle field according to the numbers.

Nobody in WvW appreciates good elementalist players or any non meta build players. Meta is no longer something that rewards skill, it's no longer something that is so difficult that only the best players can achieve it and show to everyone how good they are. Instead of that, meta now means is it effective and counters everything while being super easy to play?

This is why I don't play Holosmith. This is why I play non meta core builds in PvP. Core builds that are still viable, but are regarded as inferior by others. I don't care if it's not meta. If I can reach platinum in PvP by playing core support engineer with Med Kit, I see no reason why core elementalists or tempests can not achieve the same thing.

Keep playing tempest Quick Fox. Don't pay attention to those players that make jokes towards your core/elite specialization being weak. Keep playing what you enjoy the most. I have much more respect towards players like you who are willing to support allies rather than braindead, easy to play specializations like the Scourge.

@"TheQuickFox.3826" said:Tempest and Core Elementalist seems to have a rapidly degrading reputation under WvW squads and commanders, with commanders/lieutenants requesting to change class, making jokes about them or sometimes even kicking them. Do we need a PR campaign to polish the reputation of these specs?

I'm the only tempest in squad, scourges are clearly dominating the battle field according to the numbers.

You're using s/d which is useless in squad to begin with. Air signet and storm glyph have almost 0 value in any part of wvw. You dont have elite skill. Your HP is 20k which suggest tanky gear which means that your damage doesnt exist or you're not supporting allies (since your utilities are useless). And if you're not doing any of those 2 you have no reason to be in squad at all.

Tempest isnt meta, but it's a solid pick. It doesnt mean that you can slap random traits and skills and call yourself tempest. It's a good healer and should be built like one, everything else (dps for example) will be straight up bad because the spec doesnt support such playstyle or because there are much better classes/elite specs that can do that role (in this example weaver, herald, scourge).

I would consider myself lucky if I were you since any competent commander/lieutenant would notice your performance and kick you.

Edit: nvm, they noticed and placed you in a party with other, equally useless builds. It's certainly not the problem in ele or tempest or scourge or meta. It's always been entitled players who dont even know how to make a proper build or how their class works, but tend to be vocal about every single thing that they dont like about meta.

@steki.1478 said:[...]

I'm only noticing a trend. This is nothing about me personally. While got a very well thought-out build/stats/gear/traits combination, it is thought-out for my playing style and for nothing else. I'm just noticing a trend wherein tempests and core elementalists are considered to be a joke.

Edit: I do have an elite skill but it is on cooldown so therefore it is almost black.

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:

@steki.1478 said:[...]

They are only joke if people play them as such. There's also no point in playing ele/tempest since you can be more useful or stronger on weaver/firebrand respectively.

There are people who like to play effective builds and since big part of wvw is competitive group content, there will always be a lot of those people.

Nerf Tempest damage and add more support buffs for Tempest

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:Nerf Tempest damage and add more support buffs for Tempest

That would kill the ability to solo/duo cap things. I don't think it is a good idea to reduce Tempest to the GW2 variant of Guild Wars' monk profession. The best part of being Elementalist is the versatility of the profession. But I guess this is a weakness as well.

Ele a joke in wvw at best you got weaver but its easily counter by the main used classes with out having its own means of dealing with any types of its own.

There too much fast movement and counter to soft cc to make pAoE there to many projectile counters there to many counter burst effects and ele has no means to dealing with these counters.

As for support there just simple better version out there form other classes then auras, shouts and fields could ever do on tempest / core ele.

@"Jski.6180" said:Ele a joke in wvw at best you got weaver but its easily counter by the main used classes with out having its own means of dealing with any types of its own.

There too much fast movement and counter to soft cc to make pAoE there to many projectile counters there to many counter burst effects and ele has no means to dealing with these counters.

As for support there just simple better version out there form other classes then auras, shouts and fields could ever do on tempest / core ele.

Stop spreading false information when you cant play the class properly.

First of all, both ele and weaver are extremely strong, weaver just has bigger damage potential due to traits.

Both are the counter to main classes since you literally control where they move and if they dont move in 3 seconds, they are dead to meteor shower. Sure there's lot of projectile hate, but you have a lot of non projectile skills. Ele only gets countered by roamers lurking around, but they are far from being the "main used classes".

Tempest may not be the best support, but only a few heal ones are able to sustain the whole squad due to huge amount of healing. Not particularly useful when you get no boons, but no other class can manage to heal so many people.

@steki.1478 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:Ele a joke in wvw at best you got weaver but its easily counter by the main used classes with out having its own means of dealing with any types of its own.

There too much fast movement and counter to soft cc to make pAoE there to many projectile counters there to many counter burst effects and ele has no means to dealing with these counters.

As for support there just simple better version out there form other classes then auras, shouts and fields could ever do on tempest / core ele.

Right all dmg that is easy to deal with in-fact its the easiest in the game to deal with.

The control ele has for soft cc and hard cc is one hit with the flood of stun brakes stab clears and over all counter to movement effects its nothing.

Ele main dmg is projectiles and its SLOW projectiles making them all the worst.

Weaver all flash no substances not being the falt of the weaver class it self but all the buffs giving to the other classes.

Tempest is a joke of a support at this point its out right sad. Tempest use to be know for vigor and healing till the last update with eng med kit. Now you will see hold over but ppl are turning comply away from tempest for eng and are way better off in doing so.

This is not false information i wish it was but when you look at the real dmg in wvw and the real support in wvw ele is just not there any more.

@Jski.6180 said:

The control ele has for soft cc and hard cc is one hit with the flood of stun brakes stab clears and over all counter to movement effects its nothing.

Yes, thats how CC and stability work. But not everyone has permanent stability.

Ele main dmg is projectiles and its SLOW projectiles making them all the worst.

MS, lava font, FGS 5 are not projectiles and they are 90% of your damage.

Tempest is a joke of a support at this point its out right sad. Tempest use to be know for vigor and healing till the last update with eng med kit. Now you will see hold over but ppl are turning comply away from tempest for eng and are way better off in doing so.

Tempest wasnt a part of composition since early HoT. Engi certainly isnt a part of comp now since it does mesmer's job a lot worse than mesmer.

This is not false information i wish it was but when you look at the real dmg in wvw and the real support in wvw ele is just not there any more.

Ele, well weaver, has been holding top dps spot ever since PoF, by a big margin, especially in last 2 patches. If you failed to see that then you're clearly not playing it properly.

Tell us more about your build, OP. What are the strenghts of the build and what can you provide to help your team win fights?

@"Alehin.3746" said:Tell us more about your build, OP. What are the strenghts of the build and what can you provide to help your team win fights?

This topic wasn't about my specific build but the trend about which professions are popular at this time and how specializations are currently being perceived by the player base, but here you go:

The build link is on my GW2 Wiki page and the strength of it is versatility. It is built around maximizing the attribute bonus of celestial stats with a few adjustments for higher health (to make up for the Elementalists low base health) and a bit extra damage / condi damage over pure Celestial. Speed buffs allow me to get to far-off locations more quickly or boost fellow players "Eye of the Storm". The all-stat bonus allows for a welcome middle ground between survivability, damage and healing. I'm helping my team by capturing and defending locations and especially participating in late-night caps with a few players and of course, assisting a commander with any request.

If people ignore @Jski.6180 because he seems to be upset MS got buffed in WvW haha, I've been playing weaver in WvW and consistently doing the most damage, on top of that WvW guilds are specifically looking for Weavers in their comps for the damage, as for the OP Tempest is good but you may aswell play Firebrand, so someone probably saw you running signet of air (bad choice) and instantly thought you were running a bad build and for this case you are.

@steki.1478 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

The control ele has for soft cc and hard cc is one hit with the flood of stun brakes stab clears and over all counter to movement effects its nothing.

Ele main dmg is projectiles and its SLOW projectiles making them all the worst.

Tempest is a joke of a support at this point its out right sad. Tempest use to be know for vigor and healing till the last update with eng med kit. Now you will see hold over but ppl are turning comply away from tempest for eng and are way better off in doing so.

This is not false information i wish it was but when you look at the real dmg in wvw and the real support in wvw ele is just not there any more.

The thing is all classes can do high dmg if they build full zerk with max might and high dmg mods but most classes dont have to build like that realty only ele is building that way and a few chose roming classes.

Truth is ele is nothing with out the all in glass or all in support there is no more in-between and that alone shows there is something wrong with the class in a wvw setting.

Added note he the one who is saying that i am only agreeing with him your only disagreeing with me but not him for what ever reason.

Most commanders nowadays only look for firebrand and scourges. It's really getting old.

Tempest is a Melee spec , which is a problem.You need to be very tanky (aka full minstrel gear) to survive melee pushes of your zerg.Cele Gear is not enough.You are the Healer and you should not need to be healed.And at this point you are just a worse Firebrand.

A ranged Tempest is worthless because the only reason you trait Tempest is for the Overloads (all melee).And if you want dmg , just go Weaver.

I play core fresh air almost exclusively. I have no problem being let into squads, I tell people I'll flank and kill the backline, and I go do exactly that.

@GloriousAlkaid.5104 said:I play core fresh air almost exclusively. I have no problem being let into squads, I tell people I'll flank and kill the backline, and I go do exactly that.

It could also be the server. I'm from Ruins of Surmia, a small EU server which every few weeks gets paired with one or two larger servers.I never encountered these issues before. Currently we're paired with Vabbi and I've noticed a few very vocal persons I would most accurately characterize as build nazıs. Not just against core eles and weavers but also against rangers and basically anything that is outside the current metagame. I'm not saying these are actually players from Vabbi, as I don't know this just saying it happens currently we're paired with them.

I myself more have an attitude of like: Everyone is welcome. Bring some supplies. Follow commander. Attack what they attack or point at. Build what they build. Do your best and most of all: enjoy the game. Should not be too difficult and any build can achieve this. But I guess is all ends up as a clash between some players with a more hardcore play style and some players with a more casual play style.

@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:Tempest is a Melee spec , which is a problem.You need to be very tanky (aka full minstrel gear) to survive melee pushes of your zerg.Cele Gear is not enough.

I can agree with that. I'm fully celestial still have to be very careful to not get melted in zergs where "the floor is lava" of red cirles. I tend to stay out to the sides, cast a few ranged attacks or do a short "overload earth" tour through the enemy zerg after which I get out.

Unfortunately, for me personally: Weaver is just too confusing to play so I stay with tempest with core ele as only alternative.

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:

It could also be the server. I'm from Ruins of Surmia, a small EU server which every few weeks gets paired with one or two larger servers.I never encountered these issues before. Currently we're paired with Vabbi and I've noticed a few very vocal persons I would most accurately characterize as build nazıs. Not just against core eles and weavers but also against rangers and basically anything that is outside the current metagame. I'm not saying these are actually players from Vabbi, as I don't know this just saying it happens currently we're paired with them.

Vabbi is currently the server with strongest fighting capabilities and one of the reason IS the class/build favoritism, simply because certain builds perform much much better than others. The reason why they might not want eles is because most of eles dont really do what ele is supposed to do, which is constantly pressure enemy and control their movement by being very aggressive with staff skills. That's usually different on most of other servers because they are either bad at fighting or simply dont understand the potential of elementalist. Ranger simply doesnt have such potential, which is known fact everywhere so they are excluded from big zergs as their main role is focusing on one target, not many.

Considering that build you're running isnt effective at putting absolutely any pressure to enemy players (whether it's 1, 10 or 50; celestial stats on ele are only useful in solo play or small scale roaming, but none of those have anything to do with squads) and that your main focus is flipping camps, scouting and bringing supply (which can be done on literally any class and build), you cant really say that ele/tempest isnt picked/wanted when you have almost no interaction with your squad when it comes to combat, which is the main reason of having a squad.

People want scourges because they are very easy to be useful on as long as you have main boon hate skills and traits. Damage focused ele on the other hand absolutely needs to have good reactions, has to be aggressive and just do good damage in order to be useful. You have almost no value otherwise, whether you have 0 supply or 25. There are servers/commanders who simply dont care about objectives since winning a matchup doesnt really do anything, they play for fights and focus their squad on best performance in those. Bad eles are very easy to notice, bad scourges not so much. Not playing weaver is one of the indicators, not doing damage is another and both are very easy to see.

Similar could be said for healing ele. While it's pretty easy to camp water and spam shouts/overload for easy heals, you dont really bring much besides heals. Meanwhile firebrand has a lot of boon/cleanse/stunbreak/block spam as well as a lot of stability on top of strong heals. Chrono is almost same, but with less heals and more utility, so there's no need to bring ele when other classes can support better. That's not problem of commanders, it's problem of balance.

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:Tempest is a Melee spec , which is a problem.You need to be very tanky (aka full minstrel gear) to survive melee pushes of your zerg.Cele Gear is not enough.You are the Healer and you should not need to be healed.And at this point you are just a worse Firebrand.

A ranged Tempest is worthless because the only reason you trait Tempest is for the Overloads (all melee).And if you want dmg , just go Weaver.

Melee tempest is not a bad thing as support gear tends to be very tankly sets and for what ever reason anet felt the need for tempest to be able to self heal as well as it can heal others (they may need to look into that at one point and time to buff tempest out going heals more).

Tempest is one of the worst support atm not so much due to the class it self but due to buff for other support classes. For what ever reason anet though it would be to much for shout auras to hit its 5 targets and trigger powerful aura to hit 5 more targets but we have classes like scorge who can hit 10 targets on much lower cd after the fact of HoT vs PoF.

I think a lot of problems come down to a HoT balance vs a PoF balancing in the current game and for the ele class over all.

Tempest is a melee support class that simply dose not support others well enofe but its overloade skills are still support aimed.

Weaver is only a dmg class because of its + to dmg non of its class skills duel skills make it a real dmg dealing class.

I always seem to end up going back to my d/f auramancer. Might not be the best but its damn fun.

Have not really tried power/condi builds except for staff backline years ago.

Jsi.6180: "In wvw most of your dmg is coming from fire ball and duel skills."

Funniest thing I've read in this thread. Lava Font and Meteor Shower are the main damage dealers.

@"Dahir.4158" said:Jsi.6180: "In wvw most of your dmg is coming from fire ball and duel skills."

Funniest thing I've read in this thread. Lava Font and Meteor Shower are the main damage dealers.

They are your big numbers to make you feel good. Your mind dmg is the dmg you can do most of the time this is why your going to see scorge in "real" wvw fights (not mindless blob fights) do most of the dmg. This is fire ball most of the time. Lava font is to small to land its full effect most of the time and MS fall rate is to slow to land its big dps just burst dmg.

If you wanted to down ppl or burst your better off sniping with scpter if you want to do dps your better off with a staff spaming fire ball.

This is why tempest was used for a time over core ele not because of it being the new thing but because its overloades did real consist dmg vs a group namely air overloade something that happen on back then 1/4 sec hit rate and on a 360 size aoe.

Right now ele is all flash no real substrates. You feel good seeing big numbers but they are worthless and its the scorge that doing most of the work for dps.

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:Jsi.6180: "In wvw most of your dmg is coming from fire ball and duel skills."

Funniest thing I've read in this thread. Lava Font and Meteor Shower are the main damage dealers.

Most HoT specs are now no longer played I can think of 2 maybe even 3 that are still used (Chrono and Herald) Everything else is either useless or PoF specs this is due to all PoF specs being completely Overpowered (Firebrand,Scourge,Spellbreaker and you could add Weaver into it due to MS aswell) Tempest was not used for it's damage in WvW, It was used for it's sustained frontline healing abilities, having access to Stuns, Water Fields, Condi removal, Auras, and various boons, for this you would be running full Minstrel's.