Do Mesmer need more nerfs?

After the last set of nerfs to Mesmer, are they finally balanced, or do they need more nerfs?

Mirage's being able to dodge while CC'd is what makes them so broken. This alone removes basically removes counterplay and negates any reward you'd get from timing your skills well.

Killing a mirage is about applying so much pressure nonstop that maybe, eventually, possibly, they'll start to go down. However, even then they can just sword ambush, portal, blink, or jaunt their way out of a fight while still maintaining enough damage to 1 shot you with either power or condi.

OMG..another OP mirage mesmer CHRONO we need a nerf em again thread. :astonished:

No, I don't they are balanced. No, I don't think it will change. Remember towards the end of GW1 popularity how powerful mesmer and necro were as well.

They absolutely need more nerfs. Elusive mind needs to go. The ability to Dodge while stunned needs to go.They need the same treatment to burning that every other profession got. Give sword ambush a target requirement and nerf portal once and for all.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Give sword ambush a target requirement

This is just ridiculous. At that point you might as well make every ability with any sort of movement attached to it in the game require a target.

Mesmer is strong atm with Mirage. Is it overperforming ? I'm not sure at this point.
Thanks to my preferences in game (role in PvP, types of builds, etc) playing against Mesmer(s) in opposing team is not bad experience. I would say i get about 50-50 split in wins and loses when facing them. But more importantly, my enjoyment of the game is not affected by them. For the next round of touch-ups to game balance, i would rather see some other abilities tweaked - stuff that dictate direction in teamfights, affect viable builds in meta, and affect my personal experience - in other words, stuff i do not enjoy encountering in PvP. (I will not go into details here, don't want to hijack the thread)

Once the game is brought to the state where most matches are fun, I have no problems with Anet looking at all top builds and implementing small changes to help build diversity.

Put a 60~90s cooldown on Elusive Mind's stun breaking effect similar to that of (Ranger's) Shared Anguish.

~ Kovu

@shadowpass.4236 said:Mirage's being able to dodge while CC'd is what makes them so broken. This alone removes basically removes counterplay and negates any reward you'd get from timing your skills well.

Killing a mirage is about applying so much pressure nonstop that maybe, eventually, possibly, they'll start to go down. However, even then they can just sword ambush, portal, blink, or jaunt their way out of a fight while still maintaining enough damage to 1 shot you with either power or condi.

No the stunbreak on dodge makes it broken, the dodge during cc by still being useless for the whole stunduration is not broken. Its strong but not op. This is a big difference. A fresh air ele can do more during being cced than a mirage without elusive mind since game release, he can counterburst you, the burst even include a blind so he also will evade some dmg e.g your whole follow up one button burst like an eviscerate. The mirage can avoid some damage but he don't fully negate your stun, he cannot move during the stun to get distance and he can't use skills, not to mention that most cc last longer than one mirage cloak. I would not call that an overperforming dodge.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:They absolutely need more nerfs. Elusive mind needs to go. The ability to Dodge while stunned needs to go.They need the same treatment to burning that every other profession got. Give sword ambush a target requirement and nerf portal once and for all.

Except of the elusive mind delete this is just lol.

@bravan.3876 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Mirage's being able to dodge while CC'd is what makes them so broken. This alone removes basically removes counterplay and negates any reward you'd get from timing your skills well.

Killing a mirage is about applying so much pressure nonstop that maybe, eventually, possibly, they'll start to go down. However, even then they can just sword ambush, portal, blink, or jaunt their way out of a fight while still maintaining enough damage to 1 shot you with either power or condi.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:They absolutely need more nerfs. Elusive mind needs to go. The ability to Dodge while stunned needs to go.They need the same treatment to burning that

every other profession got

. Give sword ambush a target requirement and nerf portal once and for all.

No, the whole point of dodge is to reactively avoid an attack. Mirage being able to dodge while cc'd removes the whole purpose of the cc in the first place and rewards the mesmer for having bad timing. Mirage Cloak already lasts longer than a normal dodge and can attack during the animation, that really should be it.

Honestly, if its not broken, let's give every single class the same ability. Watch how messed up this game will become.

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Mirage's being able to dodge while CC'd is what makes them so broken. This alone removes basically removes counterplay and negates any reward you'd get from timing your skills well.

Killing a mirage is about applying so much pressure nonstop that maybe, eventually, possibly, they'll start to go down. However, even then they can just sword ambush, portal, blink, or jaunt their way out of a fight while still maintaining enough damage to 1 shot you with either power or condi.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:They absolutely need more nerfs. Elusive mind needs to go. The ability to Dodge while stunned needs to go.They need the same treatment to burning that

every other profession got

. Give sword ambush a target requirement and nerf portal once and for all.

No it don't negate the whole purpose of the cc, the mesmer is still out of the fight and can't attack also can't move when stuned to get out of danger zone and negate gap closing of other ppl want to attack him. He can negate some dmg what a dodge is for. It still is better for the mesmer to dodge the cc in the first place when not using elusive mind. Also mesmer being able to cast during dodges is not a big problem, when the mesmer needs to use his dodges to cover his long and very well telegraphed attacks let him, he will have less dodges to avoid attacks after that. That is pretty much counterable.

Stunbreak on dodge is broken asf and condimirage needs quite some nerfs but thats it. All other complains are clearly l2p issues. And i say this as someone getting attacked by mesmer mains often enough for my nerf requests but tbh when i see a pure glass gs power mirage (even with elusive mind) in the other team i am happy, no matter what class i'm actually on.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

Give sword ambush a target requirement

Infiltrator's Strike, Symbol of Blades, Judge's Intervention, Illusionary Leap, Merciful Intervention, Illusionary Ambush, Polaric Leap, Shadow Shot, Death Strike, Phase Traversal, Infiltrator's Signet, Steal and Dark Path.These all require a target in order to be used for mobility. Mesmer already has access to Blink, Jaunt and Portal which doesn't have a target requirement. Why should they also have close to unparalleled mobility on top of that? Mesmer also has very high access to skills combining offense and defense. Namely; Blurred Frenzy, Distortion, Mirage Cloak and Echo of Memory.

@bravan.3876 said:No the stunbreak on dodge makes it broken, the dodge during cc by still being useless for the whole stunduration is not broken. Its strong but not op. This is a big difference. A fresh air ele can do more during being cced than a mirage without elusive mind since game release, he can counterburst you, the burst even include a blind so he also will evade some dmg e.g your whole follow up one button burst like an eviscerate.

Mesmer already has access to a lot of "Oops-skills" in case they screw up and miss a dodge. They can blink away, Jaunt away or Distort, they should not be able to negate incoming damage after eating the cc.This thread is about Mesmer, not an 11k hp class that's not even close to viable.

The mirage can avoid some damage but he don't fully negate your stun, he cannot move during the stun to get distance and he can't use skills, not to mention that most cc last longer than one mirage cloak. I would not call that an overperforming dodge.Read above; Jaunt + Blink lets you move around.

@bravan.3876 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:They absolutely need more nerfs. Elusive mind needs to go. The ability to Dodge while stunned needs to go.They need the same treatment to burning that

every other profession got

. Give sword ambush a target requirement and nerf portal once and for all.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

Give sword ambush a target requirement

@bravan.3876 said:No the stunbreak on dodge makes it broken, the dodge during cc by still being useless for the whole stunduration is not broken. Its strong but not op. This is a big difference. A fresh air ele can do more during being cced than a mirage without elusive mind since game release, he can counterburst you, the burst even include a blind so he also will evade some dmg e.g your whole follow up one button burst like an eviscerate.

The mirage can avoid some damage but he don't fully negate your stun, he cannot move during the stun to get distance and he can't use skills, not to mention that most cc last longer than one mirage cloak. I would not call that an overperforming dodge.Read above; Jaunt + Blink lets you move around.

@bravan.3876 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:They absolutely need more nerfs. Elusive mind needs to go. The ability to Dodge while stunned needs to go.They need the same treatment to burning that

every other profession got

. Give sword ambush a target requirement and nerf portal once and for all.

The difference is that Mirage Thrust is a leap. Not a shadow step. It has more in common with Heartseeker than Infiltrator's Strike.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

Give sword ambush a target requirement

@bravan.3876 said:No the stunbreak on dodge makes it broken, the dodge during cc by still being useless for the whole stunduration is not broken. Its strong but not op. This is a big difference. A fresh air ele can do more during being cced than a mirage without elusive mind since game release, he can counterburst you, the burst even include a blind so he also will evade some dmg e.g your whole follow up one button burst like an eviscerate.

The mirage can avoid some damage but he don't fully negate your stun, he cannot move during the stun to get distance and he can't use skills, not to mention that most cc last longer than one mirage cloak. I would not call that an overperforming dodge.Read above; Jaunt + Blink lets you move around.

@bravan.3876 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:They absolutely need more nerfs. Elusive mind needs to go. The ability to Dodge while stunned needs to go.They need the same treatment to burning that

every other profession got

. Give sword ambush a target requirement and nerf portal once and for all.

First you mix up teleports and leaps. Most leaps (if not all) don't need a target so they can be used for movement. Sword ambush is the first and only one mesmer has. Mesmer has the same amount of defensive skills other classes have just with the difference that a pure glass shatter mes cannot facetank inbetween so ofc they also need a lot. Active defense is rly not the problem in this game when i look at all the facetank bruiser with passive sustain, 1-2 stunbreaks having even more dmg than a pure glass build.Using additional cds to the dodge is no argument, an ele can also just counterburst you and still use his teleport to get distance, aside from using jaunt/blink to get out of danger zone make the dodge use retundant.

I overlooked the burning. Means except of elusive mind delete and the burning thing this is just lol.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

Give sword ambush a target requirement

@bravan.3876 said:No the stunbreak on dodge makes it broken, the dodge during cc by still being useless for the whole stunduration is not broken. Its strong but not op. This is a big difference. A fresh air ele can do more during being cced than a mirage without elusive mind since game release, he can counterburst you, the burst even include a blind so he also will evade some dmg e.g your whole follow up one button burst like an eviscerate.

The mirage can avoid some damage but he don't fully negate your stun, he cannot move during the stun to get distance and he can't use skills, not to mention that most cc last longer than one mirage cloak. I would not call that an overperforming dodge.Read above; Jaunt + Blink lets you move around.

@bravan.3876 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:They absolutely need more nerfs. Elusive mind needs to go. The ability to Dodge while stunned needs to go.They need the same treatment to burning that

every other profession got

. Give sword ambush a target requirement and nerf portal once and for all.

It has more in common with Jump Shot, only it has a ~6 second cooldown instead of an 18 second cooldown.> @bravan.3876 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

Give sword ambush a target requirement

@bravan.3876 said:No the stunbreak on dodge makes it broken, the dodge during cc by still being useless for the whole stunduration is not broken. Its strong but not op. This is a big difference. A fresh air ele can do more during being cced than a mirage without elusive mind since game release, he can counterburst you, the burst even include a blind so he also will evade some dmg e.g your whole follow up one button burst like an eviscerate.

The mirage can avoid some damage but he don't fully negate your stun, he cannot move during the stun to get distance and he can't use skills, not to mention that most cc last longer than one mirage cloak. I would not call that an overperforming dodge.Read above; Jaunt + Blink lets you move around.

@bravan.3876 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:They absolutely need more nerfs. Elusive mind needs to go. The ability to Dodge while stunned needs to go.They need the same treatment to burning that

every other profession got

. Give sword ambush a target requirement and nerf portal once and for all.

Why do you assume that I'm talking about a zerk shatter mesmer? The Carrion Mirage has all the access to active defenses, so does paladin Chrono. Both still incredibly strong.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

Give sword ambush a target requirement

@bravan.3876 said:No the stunbreak on dodge makes it broken, the dodge during cc by still being useless for the whole stunduration is not broken. Its strong but not op. This is a big difference. A fresh air ele can do more during being cced than a mirage without elusive mind since game release, he can counterburst you, the burst even include a blind so he also will evade some dmg e.g your whole follow up one button burst like an eviscerate.

The mirage can avoid some damage but he don't fully negate your stun, he cannot move during the stun to get distance and he can't use skills, not to mention that most cc last longer than one mirage cloak. I would not call that an overperforming dodge.Read above; Jaunt + Blink lets you move around.

@bravan.3876 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:They absolutely need more nerfs. Elusive mind needs to go. The ability to Dodge while stunned needs to go.They need the same treatment to burning that

every other profession got

. Give sword ambush a target requirement and nerf portal once and for all.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

Give sword ambush a target requirement

@bravan.3876 said:No the stunbreak on dodge makes it broken, the dodge during cc by still being useless for the whole stunduration is not broken. Its strong but not op. This is a big difference. A fresh air ele can do more during being cced than a mirage without elusive mind since game release, he can counterburst you, the burst even include a blind so he also will evade some dmg e.g your whole follow up one button burst like an eviscerate.

The mirage can avoid some damage but he don't fully negate your stun, he cannot move during the stun to get distance and he can't use skills, not to mention that most cc last longer than one mirage cloak. I would not call that an overperforming dodge.Read above; Jaunt + Blink lets you move around.

@bravan.3876 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:They absolutely need more nerfs. Elusive mind needs to go. The ability to Dodge while stunned needs to go.They need the same treatment to burning that

every other profession got

. Give sword ambush a target requirement and nerf portal once and for all.

Because the nerfs you want would kill power mesmer, even more it would more or less delete the whole mirage spec. Nerf the condistuff when you have a problem with condimirage

Make every movement skill like RtL - double the CD when noone is being hit.

Or at least remove that super old effect from it, I would be fine with that too. :'(

K:

1. No one is saying nerf Mesmer
2. No one Is saying further nerf Chrono
3. It is MIRAGE that needs to be hit by the nerf bat. No, it needs to be hit by a wooden bat that has nails in it.

nerf all mesma evading engaging abilities with much higher cds

I think that the only thing that should be touched is Elusive Mind, everything else is mostly fine.

It's kinda sad how many players don't want to accept the obvious fact that they are being class carried.

If the class wasn't busted, it wouldn't be seeing an instance of 2-4 in nearly all1500+ ranked games. This simple fact alone negates any and all mental gymnastics you could come up with.

Anybody can play Mirage compared to other professions and know it needs nerfs. The real concern though isn't certain players defending Mesmers...you will always have people defending things OP. The REAL issue is how Anet let this season start with Mesmers the way they were. When you have 3 nerfs during the season and it's still a profession dominating over others, it's time to look internally at who tests this stuff.

Even once they get condi Mirage under control, they still need to look at giving other professions portal. It's far too powerful in group play to only give to one profession.

On top of that, they still have the best single target CC that either needs to be shared by more professions or lowered to the level of the engy moa.

After that, they need to look at how much 100% scaling defenses Mesmers have versus other professions. Not only do they have 100% scaling defenses, they also are given the most mobility in the game PLUS a higher health pool than several other professions. This makes them the profession that can escape zergs better than any other. Other professions need similar build potential or mesmers need to give up some scaling defenses, mobility, or health.

Let's not forget that they ALSO get stealth and the opportunity to get the first strike on almost any opponent. PLUS, they get the most AI to cause literal confusion and damage. What other professions gets all this stuff???

Oh...and after that...they need to look at how little "resources" mesmers have to manage and the extremely low cooldowns/cast times versus other professions that have to manage much more laborious resources (i.e. adrenaline, LF, astral force, initiative, energy, heat, etc) and much longer cast times/cooldowns.

Right now, there is very little tradeoff in playing a Mesmer versus any other profession. Even strong professions like Warriors and Scourge have clear weaknesses that can be exploited by certain professions/builds/strategies.

Mesmers are tricky slippery obfuscating annoyances to fight, but helluva fun to play. If you take away their nature, they cease to exist.

So, we pursue the ever dangling carrot of balance and that impostor called true equality and no one will ever be happy and remain happy.

/nerf happiness, it's too difficult

@"SPESHAL.9106" said:Anybody can play Mirage compared to other professions and know it needs nerfs. The real concern though isn't certain players defending Mesmers...you will always have people defending things OP. The REAL issue is how Anet let this season start with Mesmers the way they were. When you have 3 nerfs during the season and it's still a profession dominating over others, it's time to look internally at who tests this stuff.

Even once they get condi Mirage under control, they still need to look at giving other professions portal. It's far too powerful in group play to only give to one profession.

On top of that, they still have the best single target CC that either needs to be shared by more professions or lowered to the level of the engy moa.

After that, they need to look at how much 100% scaling defenses Mesmers have versus other professions. Not only do they have 100% scaling defenses, they also are given the most mobility in the game PLUS a higher health pool than several other professions. This makes them the profession that can escape zergs better than any other. Other professions need similar build potential or mesmers need to give up some scaling defenses, mobility, or health.

Let's not forget that they ALSO get stealth and the opportunity to get the first strike on almost any opponent. PLUS, they get the most AI to cause literal confusion and damage. What other professions gets all this stuff???

Oh...and after that...they need to look at how little "resources" mesmers have to manage and the extremely low cooldowns/cast times versus other professions that have to manage much more laborious resources (i.e. adrenaline, LF, astral force, initiative, energy, heat, etc) and much longer cast times/cooldowns.

Right now, there is very little tradeoff in playing a Mesmer versus any other profession. Even strong professions like Warriors and Scourge have clear weaknesses that can be exploited by certain professions/builds/strategies.

You said a ton of stuff without actually providing an example other than moa or portal. Well done.

remove 1 burn stack from torch and replace it with weakness. remove 1 stack of confusion from Riddle of Sand. remove the unblockable from mirror blade. remove elusive mind from the game completely.

buff the damn scepter to a staff level.