Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Renegade Post POF launch Discussion Thread


Joxer.6024

Recommended Posts

I am just going to paste this here and give credit to Brutaly.6257 for creating it over in the Guardian forums. Good thinking and be nice to see something of the same here.

"think we had some nice threads going before launch and instead of random posting i think its better if we can have a few threads.So this is an attempt to create such a thread.Be clear about which game mode your feedback relates to."

So with that go nuts!! Cheers! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Euthymias.7984 said:I really dislike the idea of a PvE focused spec when there are others who's specs (HoT or otherwise) have good practical use in multiple game modes.Renegade/Shortbow really needs some changes to be viable beyond just adding more damage/range to the standard condition setup.

yea, FB hitting 50k and can do support? Really? Ok, so you lose some dps going support, so now they do 40k......still. Some balance and love guys please?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've had a lot of fun with it actually. Haha. Who am I kidding? I'm still Shiro/Glint. Perhaps if the idea of wielding the three objectively crappiest weapons in the game, all rolled into one condition cheese spec, with a splash of ferocity (ehrmahgherd! Stat dahversity!) didn't make me want to take my eyes out with a spoon, I'd consider playing it. Maybe I will give it a quick go just so that I can say I shot arrows through portals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In general PvE I'm just... not sure. It's so weird in that it seems like it should be strong but it might not be? I don't even know if it's effective or not. I've also seen that the bleed duration increase trait isn't even working... something that was reported in the demos yet still exists so it's hard to even accurately gauge effectiveness when traits don't even work.

Also I'd like to go on record in saying that Sevenshot is total garbage. It needs to be completely replaced or redone entirely it's that bad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i try to give again my full pov for pvprenegade dont have cleanse or evade and the sb dmg is very low and hardly hits. combine it with high nrg from F skills we need some love.

F2-F4Heroic Command - 5-10 stack of might which cost 15 nrg. no ty. too much nrg with less benefit with all the corrupt around (scourge, spellbreaker, thief, etc..).this should give allies stun break, 10 might, fury 10 sec , swiftness for 5 sec and even retaliation for 5 sec. to open fight with it or to give really good heroic command.Citadel Bombardment - for 35 nrg i want it to do really good secure dmg on an area. like direct dmg combine with condition dmg. direct dmg for each hit is 1k base, burning is 3 stacks for each hit as the duration is really low and easy to cleanse or dodge out of it.Orders from Above - should be renewing abilities. so only alacrity (which is more pve aspect) is nice. but renegade need self sustain. so it should give regeneration, vigor, protection and resistance for 10 sec (warrior resistance uptime is very high so should we as melee class). and maybe also (i think anet dont like the idea) give regeneration of nrg for 10 sec +2.

to sum it up F abilities must give something back as even with zero nrg they are bit useless. for pve they give might (which most class can share or create) and alacrity like mesmer. F skills should be our big burst or support.

SB SKILLSShattershot - longer bleeding duration 4 sec. and direct dmg increase by 50% (with maraduer amulet should crit for 1.8k and not 1k). it seems high but atm renegade has no ability to disengage, no evade with this weapon so atm the high risk low reward needs to be fixed asap. as most of our dmg comes from AA due to high nrg costBloodbane Path - again dmg should be higher as now its easy to avoid. i would increase it by 50% as well.Sevenshot - atm useless skill. you cant attack melee class if they pressure you. 1 torment stack for 4 sec and very low direct dmg. i would change it to each arrow can hit only 1 target and put 7 stacks of torment and do 576 base dmg. so if you manage to hit with 3 arrows only 1 will count. atm moving target wont get hit and its very hard to hit full 7 arrows. maybe swap the animation. you fire 7 arrows in a cone each do 7 torment stacks and 576 dmg. this way you increase your overall dmg for pve raids and wvw. and in pvp 1v1 you only hit once.Spiritcrush - condi dmg is too low. burning should be 5 sec so it can be 4 stacks and not 2. this skill atm gives about 1.2k dps condi or power dmg. it should be higher like 2k dps. the slow dont give anything for the renegade as its only 4 sec if ppl standing in it. i would change slow to chill or immobilize. so we can get more torement with corruption trait line or control.Scorchrazor - nice kb but maybe also evade 1 sec and much higher dmg like 100% more and 4 burning. you said fight burn with burn so put your money where you mouth is.

UTILITIESBreakrazor's Bastion - great change to healing buff. but i would also give it base 3 condi cleanse(depand on my later trait suggestions). rev and renegade lack of condi cleanse and even with resistance its still hard to cleanse when someone with sigil, trait, skill rip it from you. also should be 5 nrg like all heal skillsRazorclaw's Rage - to enhance attack by only 2 sec of bleed???!!!. this warband should also attack and do dmg and also buff allies with 10% more condi dmg and direct dmg.Darkrazor's Daring - ok now with stun breakIcerazor's Ire - ice i know try to think how you give it chill like maybe ice field. so sb hits could proc chill on enemies and than the proc of torment could be nice.Soulcleave's Summit - sometimes bugg and stay without degenerate nrg at all. the dmg nerfed? as it should do 750 dmg and now its 450. so please buff the dmg back to 750.

TRAITSAmbush Commander - atm its our way to fast reach 5 stacks or 10 stacks.

Ashen Demeanor - when i disable i put 5 vulnerability and cripple. common this wont be used to gain 1 stack of kalla. you could change cripple to immobilize for 3 sec and vulnerability to 10 stacks. rev dont have much cc skills to chain them all together. and we need to put enemies at range. so it goes nice with SB5.

Blood Fury - we need invocation line to gain fury. or wait hp to go 50%. so i think when i have fury the condi dmg is higher 25% and also duration.

Wrought-Iron Will - with sb i can evade .... so no. only dodge. i think the boons should be longer 8 sec. and also when you gain regeneration you cleanse 1 condition (ele....). it could buff support ventari and other builds give them another way to cleanse when dodge.

Endless Enmity - should be 75%

Sudden Reversal - should be 10 sec icd. could go nice with invocation break stun when changing legend every 10 sec. also the dmg should be higher by 50%

Heartpiercer - sb skills now pierce and inflict 1 stack of bleed for 4 sec. buff sb skills and stacking conditions.

All for One - could also proc regen for 5 sec. (so also cleanse with Wrought-Iron Will so the sustain to condi will be nicely with this condi fiesta. it wont be op as 4 skills has cd which means 4 cleanse. you can spam the elite but you wont do dmg while doing so while the enemy still hits you and you easy to get cc.)

Brutal Momentum - the main reason for all the change above. as you want us not to dodge.... common who dont dodge while attacking with low dmg weapon.

Vindication - 3 sec of might common dont be so cheep:D. put it 5 sec. its MG trait

Lasting Legacy - ok

Righteous Rebel - could be ok if we could have more cleanse abilities as suggested above. (even if using healing skill which is 50% and have 33% less its only 66% decrease dmg from conditions. i know you think like protection which negate 33% direct dmg but ppl also have resistance, cleanse to handle conditions and when condi ticks hits like direct dmg of 2-5k dps we must have more ways to cleanse while also negate condi dmg to increase out sustain when we cant cleasne due to no nrg or cd ready

hope you like it and see the synergy.

with this you can play sustain power or condi, full condi, full power, support. while not be to OP as you can be chain cc with low evade frame and ability and low stability. its push the renegade to high risk high reward play style

atm all i could theorycraft is support build which is much inferior to dragon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

as for pvp:I would say more faster cast, it need to long to cast 3, 4 ppl just walk out of range and more dps on skills ... they are to weak nowutilities needs also faster cast (shorter cast time and initiation)and why is something named ice and dont have any frozen in skill ... cmon give us chillshortbow 4 cant cast behind .... and shortbow 5 needs ground targeting

razorclaw coulf do some dps , the buff is to weakicerazor need chill toodarkrazor is fine but all utilities needs faster casts also the heal .... it needs to long, remember we have to groundtarget THEM ALL so we need faster casts

the fskills are to expensive and to weak and tooooo slow , i can nearly hit nothing with bombardment ... gg FASTER CASTS

and by the way ##WHY HAVE ANY OTHER CLASSES something that boost her class mechanic and rev has nothing that boost energy .... give us 100energy on weaponswap and 3 condicleanse on legend swap trait#

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SB is garbage still and I don't see us using it for raiding. I'm still skeptical that razorclaw is enough of a boost to group damage. Soulcleave eats so much energy so quickly and I'm not sure how how it will be in a group setting. The only good thing they did was fix the heal on kalla. That was absolutely TERRIBLE during the stress tests. Now it's actually a decent heal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Kain Francois.4328 said:Shortbow is nothing more than a ranged condi option. You're not supposed to use it for raiding, The joke is on you.

I'm not sure what use it has. In PvE mace + axe provide way better condition damage (and with a strong focus in short to middle range AoE), and the perfec weapon to complement those two is... the staff. The staff provides survability (block, blind, cleansing, healing, evade) with strongest barbreaker skill in the game; most of mobs in open PvE with a blue defiance bar fall on their knees with a single well placed attack of staff #5. So short bow makes you do less damage and makes the fights longer and more dangerous, for no reason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tried : Berserker set and Viper set. Liked it better on Berserker.

Open PvE : SBow, Darkrazor and Icerazor are tagging and CC machines.Haven't tried in WvW, PvP and Instances yet. Will do eventually soon after finishing PoF maps.

Renegade Spirits are phantasms/spirits/spiritweapon on steroid. If you tried Mesmer, Ranger or Guardian, you know they are better than those. Condition damage is alright, but I feel it's more of a burst damage, than long damage, maybe that's why Grievance set seems to fit Renegade SBow. Power set (Berserker) is surprisingly good with SBow, which I thought was a condi weapon.

It's hard for me to see the use of Renegade Stance in PvP, because of the bad Healing skill, but I'm sure the traits can and Kalla buff is a addition to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spent two days working on this spec, and it just isn't good for PVE. The buff from Kalla's Fervor is nice, as is the vigor. Everything else remains fairly bad. The summons are too easily disrupted, take too long to cast, take too long to activate, and don't do enough. The function skills are all horribly expensive for minor benefit. The shortbow merely exists as a weapon, and the best skill is still too obtuse to use. The traits are bland, don't synergize well, and generally lack any sort of impact.

I play condi rev the exact same way as I did before, except now I take Renegade for a 20% condition damage bonus over the 7% bonus from Invocation. Don't use the weapon, don't use the function skills, don't use the stance, and the other traits are just filler.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Kain Francois.4328 said:

@Buran.3796 said:

@Kain Francois.4328 said:Shortbow is nothing more than a ranged condi option. You're not supposed to use it for raiding, The joke is on you.

I'm not sure what use it has.

It's a ranged weapon. Maybe you can use it for easy tagging. Maybe it has use for PvP and WvW.

Not everything is about raids.

The thing is that doesn't seems to be stronger than the hammer (with the half time block up + the evade is hard to see how a shortbow Rev could beat a hammer Rev at range), and hammer is mostly a "pirate ship" WvW thing, end even then classes with ranged AoE attacks as Necros do that work better. Also, the anti-projectile game in PoF is stronger than ever (not only for the new specs but also in the IA).

I did clean the first three maps of PoF with a mele pure power Rev, no problems so far. I have a full viper set (except the bow, which I'm guessing if I should craft as acended and with viper stats),; I'll equip my viper gear and try something like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAV5nnvNeNS6JvJRVlHlsrykSYW5SJYssrklTl6vEXxYMNAOgGgNJeipA-jxBIQBiT3gAV+JP1fwoSQZ9EAAwFBQC7P8O4A4qryqWFc2Znd2Zn1AWd1VXd1VXd1VXVKgFVWB-e

But I think that mace + axe / staff is stronger than mace + axe / bow in most of situations. I was planning to use the short bow in a WvW roaming build placing  concentration sigils in weapons and durability runes trying to extend the condition resistance to almost cover the 10 seconds in Mallyx legend (casting  3 Mallyx skills), but I'm unsure about the results now that so many classes can boonstrip my rasistance (and concentration sigils are hella expensive).
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speaking purely from PvE I had a couple of issues:

  • No easy access to fury. It is an important buff fore renegade, yet there is only 1 trait that provides it and I have to wait till mobs is below 50% hp.
  • No mobility whatsoever.
  • You cannot tank either. The utilities offer 4 sec protection, but considering their energy cost..
  • Not much reason to use f2-f4 skills. They would be okay if they cost no or limited energy but that clearly is not the case. For their costs they are obsolete.
  • All utilities, including elite (which was nerfed) cost too much energy.

I did not bother much with SB, cuz it is considerably weak compared to mace.

I run condi rev with herald/invocation/corruption in Open world PvE. Renegade was a serious downgrade from herald. It would be stronger in grouped PvE since someone else is providing the boons. Absent some major restructure, renegade cannot work in PvP at all. No mobility, blocks, evades and significantly worse sustainability compared to herald and does much worse damage since you do not have easy access to boons.

It is incredibly bad elite.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But sadly what elite isn't bad? From the sounds of things EVERYONE got hosed in some way. Sure, FB and Weaver are doing 4 million dps but that's not legit and will get nerfed to the ground. That and it also means everyone and their brother will be playing FB or Weaver.....boring.So yea, I was (and still am) really hoping Renegade can bring something to the table. Maybe it wont be until the new raids drop that we see these elites have a place? I dunno....just can't see it being that bad really, from a Dev POV it would make me cry. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Joxer.6024 said:But sadly what elite isn't bad? From the sounds of things EVERYONE got hosed in some way. Sure, FB and Weaver are doing 4 million dps but that's not legit and will get nerfed to the ground. That and it also means everyone and their brother will be playing FB or Weaver.....boring.So yea, I was (and still am) really hoping Renegade can bring something to the table. Maybe it wont be until the new raids drop that we see these elites have a place? I dunno....just can't see it being that bad really, from a Dev POV it would make me cry. ;)

People like Scourge, and Deadeye.

Soulbeast is fun, just needs some tuning from what I understand.

Haven't really looked into Warrior. And the Mesmer one just sounds like another Mesmer spec, but without being that powerful. So boring, and bad.


That said, I think Citadel Bombardment is actually really good in the right situation for PVE. however, sometimes it actually seems to attack the wrong place? I've seen it literally shoot in the opposite direction I've pointed at.

The 2 ability, I don't actually see much damage. The concept is really cool, but I don't actually see the damage on mobs as I do with anything else.

7-Shot is a really neat ability, however, the damage should be overpowering if you hit all 7. As is, it hits like a normal ability as far as I'm aware, and anything less (Which is most the time) it becomes lackluster.

4/5 are both in good places, and ends up being the majority of my damage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SB3 is useless in confined spaces or uneven terrain, and it is almost impossible to aim, would be complete garbage in pvp, and is almost complete garbage in pve which is too bad because it's also the strongest ability on the wep. I would rework it so all 7 arrows spawn from a cluster above the renegade so it can be used in a hall way or what have you, and I would also make it a targeted ability so it can't miss just because a player straffes or a mob changes direction. The broken bleed duration trait also goes a long way toward making the shortbow seem crappy in all settings. Finally the summons are not fun to use mostly because they have a cast time. If they were instant cast it might not be so bad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...