What could be the other spheres of the Elder Dragons? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

What could be the other spheres of the Elder Dragons?

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  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    "Physically using the death spectrum to make minions would be raising the undead or creating a death touched creature."

    There is no Mordremoth equivalent of https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death-Touched_Destroyer , https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death-Branded_Lieutenant, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Undead_Larva etc.

    The first and second are basically normal minions who have a death shroud effect. That is 100% what Shadow Tendrils are. They're Dragon Tendrils (aka large Jungle Tendrils) with shadow (and death?) magic in them.

    Shadow Tendrils are Jungle Tendrils of the Shadow of the Dragon, which existed before Zhaitan died. They are not plants with shadow magic in them.
    Zhaitan controls fear and nightmarish entities like shadow fiends and Aatxe. He does not control dark hallucinations or any other darkness Mesmer's produce.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    In theory Jormag should now be able to create icebrood from corpses as well, and it’s hard to say how the abomination was created in bitter frost, but you’ll notice it still looks like icebrood, the same can be said about the branded wyvern making minions from the dead devourers, they don’t appear as undead devourers, but branded devourers. The same can be said for Mordremoth, his method doesn’t change, his sources for minions does.

    You can certainly raise the dead to corrupt it.

    Clones are physically separate from the "source".

    Regardless of physical connection, it's been confirmed that the dead cannot be used without Zhaitan's death sphere. The same way Kralkatorrik can brand the dead and Primordus can make his minions green thanks to the death sphere, Mordremoth can clone the dead. They're all cases of Elder Dragons using the death (and shadow?) spheres.

    The physical connection is the whole point. Mordremoth can use the death sphere to understand the dead. He can create clones using that information. He doesn't resurrect the dead to turn them into plants or add death to his plants. Nothing goes boom.

    Ok so, why wasn’t Primordus making Risen and Mordrem then... why did Jormag make an Icebrood when he could have made a Risen or a Mordrem?

    Mordremoth is still using those energies though, he is using the death spectrum so he can make minions from the dead.

    Kralkatorrik makes an undead minion to brand it. Mordremoth makes an undead minion to clone it.

    I think we are over complicating things here. We have to remember what the dragon’s main spheres are. Mordremoth is plant and mind. He got use of the death sphere, which to me is simply a bonus sphere to work with.

    With Mordremoth, he can simply create a minion, aka Vinetooth or he can clone them, which is apparently his preferred method as it’s faster. I imagine in previous dragon rises, Mordremoth would have to capture prisoners as fuel for his minion creation. This is his given nature as the Jungle Dragon. The dead could not be placed in a Blighting pod to create minions. The ability to use the dead in minion creation was completely unique to Zhaitan. Fast forward to Gw2. Mordremoth absorbs a portion of the death sphere from Zhaitan as the other elder dragon’s got a piece too. He can now throw dead bodies into blister pods and create minions.

    Primordus doesn’t corrupt living things, at least what we have seen in game. So you would think giving Primordus the death sphere would go to waste. Instead he augments his minions with the death sphere.

    Kralkatorrik can now brand the dead as before he could not. Had he flown over a dead corpse before it would get crystallized much like the landscape.

    Jormag should now in theory be able to make Icebrood from the dead.

    DSD seems to have abilities like Primordus and can produce minions, I imagine the DSD will augment his minions with death magic as well.

    Yes. Plant and mind. He didn't add death to the former, the clones were his minions, not the blueprints. Nor did he create death-touched Mordrem.

    He used death magic with the mind and learned about the inner workings of the sources for clones. He couldn't transfer the soul between them like, Zhaitan and Joko could do for artifacts, elementals, golems, etc. But he could understand the physiology enough to direct the rapid production of exact biological copies.

    I don’t think the above is a fact, soul transferring. Not sure where this is coming from. Remember the dragon’s have a main method of creating minions, this doesn’t change Mordremoth is plant and mind. He is going to use these spheres first and foremost because it’s his nature. Adding death is an added side bonus, just like destroyers. Primordus doesn’t need corpses for minions, so the practicality is useless to him, instead he augments his destroyers with death magic.

  • @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    >

    All squares are rectangles. The Unstable Abomination wasn't exuded on sleep or death. His mind is not his body, and what he learns is not added beyond plant/mind. Similarly Kralkatorik resurrects, brands, and hive minds his minions. He doesn't add plant or shadow.

    We haven’t seen Kralkatorrik make use of plant or shadow magic yet. If we start seeing branded shadowsrep or stealth, which is an attribute that the branded lacked previous then we will know he has made use of shadow magic.

    Multiple classes can shadowstep and stealth, including elementalists with lightning and smoke. And resurrection offers access to original skills. So I would be skeptical. However, plant magic is not spread and would be undeniable.

    Either way there is no reason the shadow sphere should be used on a hive mind or plant sphere on the undead, if they care about their previous storyline.

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 23, 2018

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    "Physically using the death spectrum to make minions would be raising the undead or creating a death touched creature."

    There is no Mordremoth equivalent of https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death-Touched_Destroyer , https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death-Branded_Lieutenant, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Undead_Larva etc.

    The first and second are basically normal minions who have a death shroud effect. That is 100% what Shadow Tendrils are. They're Dragon Tendrils (aka large Jungle Tendrils) with shadow (and death?) magic in them.

    Shadow Tendrils are Jungle Tendrils of the Shadow of the Dragon, which existed before Zhaitan died. They are not plants with shadow magic in them.
    Zhaitan controls fear and nightmarish entities like shadow fiends and Aatxe. He does not control dark hallucinations or any other darkness Mesmer's produce.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    In theory Jormag should now be able to create icebrood from corpses as well, and it’s hard to say how the abomination was created in bitter frost, but you’ll notice it still looks like icebrood, the same can be said about the branded wyvern making minions from the dead devourers, they don’t appear as undead devourers, but branded devourers. The same can be said for Mordremoth, his method doesn’t change, his sources for minions does.

    You can certainly raise the dead to corrupt it.

    Clones are physically separate from the "source".

    Regardless of physical connection, it's been confirmed that the dead cannot be used without Zhaitan's death sphere. The same way Kralkatorrik can brand the dead and Primordus can make his minions green thanks to the death sphere, Mordremoth can clone the dead. They're all cases of Elder Dragons using the death (and shadow?) spheres.

    The physical connection is the whole point. Mordremoth can use the death sphere to understand the dead. He can create clones using that information. He doesn't resurrect the dead to turn them into plants or add death to his plants. Nothing goes boom.

    Ok so, why wasn’t Primordus making Risen and Mordrem then... why did Jormag make an Icebrood when he could have made a Risen or a Mordrem?

    Mordremoth is still using those energies though, he is using the death spectrum so he can make minions from the dead.

    Kralkatorrik makes an undead minion to brand it. Mordremoth makes an undead minion to clone it.

    I think we are over complicating things here. We have to remember what the dragon’s main spheres are. Mordremoth is plant and mind. He got use of the death sphere, which to me is simply a bonus sphere to work with.

    With Mordremoth, he can simply create a minion, aka Vinetooth or he can clone them, which is apparently his preferred method as it’s faster. I imagine in previous dragon rises, Mordremoth would have to capture prisoners as fuel for his minion creation. This is his given nature as the Jungle Dragon. The dead could not be placed in a Blighting pod to create minions. The ability to use the dead in minion creation was completely unique to Zhaitan. Fast forward to Gw2. Mordremoth absorbs a portion of the death sphere from Zhaitan as the other elder dragon’s got a piece too. He can now throw dead bodies into blister pods and create minions.

    Primordus doesn’t corrupt living things, at least what we have seen in game. So you would think giving Primordus the death sphere would go to waste. Instead he augments his minions with the death sphere.

    Kralkatorrik can now brand the dead as before he could not. Had he flown over a dead corpse before it would get crystallized much like the landscape.

    Jormag should now in theory be able to make Icebrood from the dead.

    DSD seems to have abilities like Primordus and can produce minions, I imagine the DSD will augment his minions with death magic as well.

    Yes. Plant and mind. He didn't add death to the former, the clones were his minions, not the blueprints. Nor did he create death-touched Mordrem.

    He used death magic with the mind and learned about the inner workings of the sources for clones. He couldn't transfer the soul between them like, Zhaitan and Joko could do for artifacts, elementals, golems, etc. But he could understand the physiology enough to direct the rapid production of exact biological copies.

    I don’t think the above is a fact, soul transferring. Not sure where this is coming from. Remember the dragon’s have a main method of creating minions, this doesn’t change Mordremoth is plant and mind. He is going to use these spheres first and foremost because it’s his nature. Adding death is an added side bonus, just like destroyers. Primordus doesn’t need corpses for minions, so the practicality is useless to him, instead he augments his destroyers with death magic.

    You do remember Zhaitan and Joko animate more than corpses with death magic? Including inorganic objects.

    Mordremoth uses his mind to design minions and his body to implement then. He could comprehend the dead enough to copy the flesh but not enough to bind their soul into the clone.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Multiple classes can shadowstep and stealth, including elementalists with lightning and smoke. And resurrection offers access to original skills. So I would be skeptical. However, plant magic is not spread and would be undeniable.

    Either way there is no reason the shadow sphere should be used on a hive mind or plant sphere on the undead, if they care about their previous storyline.

    Only three professions, excluding blast finishers in smoke fields, can stealth. One of them, engineers, use no specific kind of magic. The other two are mesmers and thieves.

    Elementalists do not shadowstep. Teleporting is not the same as shadowstepping.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    You do remember Zhaitan and Joko animate more than corpses with death magic? Including inorganic objects.

    Mordremoth uses his mind to design minions and his body to implement then. He could comprehend the dead enough to copy the flesh but not enough to bind their soul into the clone.

    There is no "inorganic objects" animated through death magic. If you're thinking of risen/awakened towers, catapults, etc. 1) Not necessarily death magic to make something out of bones and sinew. 2) Even if so, it's made out of bone and sinew, i.e., corpses.

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2018

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Multiple classes can shadowstep and stealth, including elementalists with lightning and smoke. And resurrection offers access to original skills. So I would be skeptical. However, plant magic is not spread and would be undeniable.

    Either way there is no reason the shadow sphere should be used on a hive mind or plant sphere on the undead, if they care about their previous storyline.

    Only three professions, excluding blast finishers in smoke fields, can stealth. One of them, engineers, use no specific kind of magic. The other two are mesmers and thieves.

    Elementalists do not shadowstep. Teleporting is not the same as shadowstepping

    Druids can stealth with celestial magic and core rangers with the longbow. So four professions, if we exclude elementalists self generating smoke fields. And weavers, guardians, mirages, necromancers, and revenant all have abilities classed as shadowsteps in their tooltops.

    It is not impossible for Branded to receive something that said it was stealth/shadowstep but wasn't.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    You do remember Zhaitan and Joko animate more than corpses with death magic? Including inorganic objects.

    Mordremoth uses his mind to design minions and his body to implement then. He could comprehend the dead enough to copy the flesh but not enough to bind their soul into the clone.

    There is no "inorganic objects" animated through death magic. If you're thinking of risen/awakened towers, catapults, etc. 1) Not necessarily death magic to make something out of bones and sinew. 2) Even if so, it's made out of bone and sinew, i.e., corpses.

    I'm referring to the orrian weapons Zhaitan animated. The Carven Effigies of Joko. And the mixing of golemancy and necromancy.
    Mordremoth should have been able to make a Kurzick Juggernaut at the very least.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Druids can stealth with celestial magic and core rangers with the longbow. So four professions, if we exclude elementalists self generating smoke fields. And weavers, guardians, mirages, necromancers, and revenant all have abilities classed as shadowsteps in their tooltops.

    You're way too caught up on mechanics.

    I'm referring to the orrian weapons Zhaitan animated. The Carven Effigies of Joko. And the mixing of golemancy and necromancy.

    The Orrian weapons aren't animated with death magic. They're old Orrian magic, and we don't get any classification. Zhaitan just corrupted the pre-existing magic.

    Craven Effigies themselves were elementals and elementalists, no indication of death magic used really.

    And the whole "golemancy and necromancy is destined to meet" that Oola talks about was using a soul to power a golem. Again, that's not death magic.

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2018

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Druids can stealth with celestial magic and core rangers with the longbow. So four professions, if we exclude elementalists self generating smoke fields. And weavers, guardians, mirages, necromancers, and revenant all have abilities classed as shadowsteps in their tooltops.

    You're way too caught up on mechanics.

    "It is not impossible for Branded to receive something that said it was stealth/shadowstep but wasn't."

    I'm referring to the orrian weapons Zhaitan animated. The Carven Effigies of Joko. And the mixing of golemancy and necromancy.

    The Orrian weapons aren't animated with death magic. They're old Orrian magic, and we don't get any classification. Zhaitan just corrupted the pre-existing magic.

    Yes, into his domains. And these Orrian Spectral weapons now, or continue, to move. With Belinda hopping into a greatsword it isn't that farfetched.

    Craven Effigies themselves were elementals and elementalists, no indication of death magic used really.

    Carven, https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Carven_Effigy and they are undead elemental constructs whom cast more than one element.

    And the whole "golemancy and necromancy is destined to meet" that Oola talks about was using a soul to power a golem. Again, that's not death magic.

    Rage binders bind Djinn into metal, and Tree Singers bind human souls into plants. Both are death magic users.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2019

    So minor spoilers from the new episode.

    Kralkatorrik also has the gift of seeing the future, much like Glint and Aurene. Would this be Kralkatorrik’s other sphere of influence?

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