Revenant Renegade

I love the concept of renegade Elite Specialization but it has so many issues being viable in pvp and wvw. Without saying trash the spec, what are some ideas to make renegade meta.

The difference is in degrees, but I find more and more of the professions are just suffering from clunkiness of design.

The Renegade has that issue in spades. The whole mechanic is just not suited for most combat situations, basically making equipped skills overly dependent on being in an ideal position to your target. The mechanic needs reworked or streamlined. I'm not a game dev, but playing it is clunky and not very satisfying.

I've been playing renegade in wvw recently and I don't see any issue with the actual trait line or the 'f' abilites. For me it's Kalla and the shortbow that just don't work. Kallas' utilities all being stationary summons that die when stared at just makes it practically useless in the fast moving pace of a fight. Darkrazor's daring was really the only utility I felt I managed to use successfully a couple times.The shortbow skills cry out for the ability to shoot behind you and being unable to do so really killed attempts I made with it outside of pve. The range feeling short was also meh, tho that's maybe an issue with me because i'm used to longbow ranger and dragonhunter? These the kind of issues you guys are having?

I love playing it but I can't decide if I like Grieving stats or Viper stats better. Grieving FELT like more damage, but I didn't look at my combat logs to see what my condition ticks got up to and I'm not very good at rotations. Also, I can't for the life of me figure out how to install arcdps or get it to work to see how poorly I'm doing against my peers in fractals. >_> Also, grieving seems like it would be more efficient given Khalia's focus on ferocity?

It is however, no matter which stats you run with, really fun for bounty trains and the offensive support does really seem to make a big difference.

Renegade is already viable in WvW.

Shortbow does feel very lacking and I too would value the ability to fire behind especially on the run. For me though its the whole energy usage that brings the revenant down fullstop. No matter what build I go with it always ends up feeling short changed after popping an "f" skill and 1 or 2 other base skills and having to rely on short range 1,1,1, to have any chance of some energy upkeep and shortbow falls down harder than other weapon choices imo.So for me its more about reworking the energy use of this class, which in turn will help overcome the clunky feel you get from playing it.. which I think I could enjoy a hell of a lot more then.. ooh and add some better form of mobility/stability in there as well. Please tell me why you think having a 1sec stability skill with a cast time that effectively makes even that 1 sec useless before you even get to see it....

@MachineManXX.9746 said:Renegade is already viable in WvW.

A lot of people myself included would say that Renegade needs some dev attention to be viable. It’s definitely not meta.

I had an idea some time ago to change Renegade into a sort of Auramancer, where the currently useless utility skills would be changed into effects that are similar to auras that affect the Rev and nearby allies. My biggest issue with Renegade is those terrible utility skills, the traits are pretty good and have a lot of potential. But currently Glint just offers so much more.

The problem with renegade and imo with revenant in general is the lack of survivability, the entire class is built around the herald spec which means without the herald elite spec you won’t be able to survive anywhere. The glint heal is the only thing that can sustain the revenant (maybe with the shiro evade) but you don’t have this kind of heal with the renegade. In fact you only have access to the weakest healing skills in game. Besides when you try to play condi you don’t have any sustain whatsoever. Since you cannot choose your utilities individually you are stuck with bad utilities, on renegade stance you don’t have any sustain, in fact all skills are huge energy wastes with no really useful skills and on Mallyx stance you don’t have any as well.It’s frustrating to be a revenant main

@MachineManXX.9746 said:Renegade is already viable in WvW.

maybe in wvw vs casual non experienced players, but not in tpvp vs ppl with half brain

@X T D.6458 said:I had an idea some time ago to change Renegade into a sort of Auramancer, where the currently useless utility skills would be changed into effects that are similar to auras that affect the Rev and nearby allies. My biggest issue with Renegade is those terrible utility skills, the traits are pretty good and have a lot of potential. But currently Glint just offers so much more.

I never saw that post/ thread but that honestly sounds like a great idea. +1

@Nash.3974 said:The problem with renegade and imo with revenant in general is the lack of survivability, the entire class is built around the herald spec which means without the herald elite spec you won’t be able to survive anywhere. The glint heal is the only thing that can sustain the revenant (maybe with the shiro evade) but you don’t have this kind of heal with the renegade. In fact you only have access to the weakest healing skills in game. Besides when you try to play condi you don’t have any sustain whatsoever. Since you cannot choose your utilities individually you are stuck with bad utilities, on renegade stance you don’t have any sustain, in fact all skills are huge energy wastes with no really useful skills and on Mallyx stance you don’t have any as well.It’s frustrating to be a revenant main

Its frustrating to be a rev main in pvp

In pve that kalla heal is amazing. If you run support that skill along can heal 5 ppl like 20k hp. The Condi damage reduction makes even better for fights like matthias and SH.

@Celsith.2753 said:I've been playing renegade in wvw recently and I don't see any issue with the actual trait line or the 'f' abilites. For me it's Kalla and the shortbow that just don't work. Kallas' utilities all being stationary summons that die when stared at just makes it practically useless in the fast moving pace of a fight. Darkrazor's daring was really the only utility I felt I managed to use successfully a couple times.The shortbow skills cry out for the ability to shoot behind you and being unable to do so really killed attempts I made with it outside of pve. The range feeling short was also meh, tho that's maybe an issue with me because i'm used to longbow ranger and dragonhunter? These the kind of issues you guys are having?

The only shortbow skills you can’t fire behind you are 4 and 5. Also after the changes to the cast time of #4 you can place it just in front of you while running and it will still go off now which is nice. I still think that one should be targettable behind tho. Shortbows major problem is it has no defense, no mobility, and no cripple or chill, any/all of which would increase its effectiveness dramatically

@MachineManXX.9746 said:Renegade is already viable in WvW.

There's a reason why that until now there is only one renegade wvw roaming video which only showed recently lol. Kalla/sbow need some rethinking. Atm I have been messing with dwarf/shiro and kalla/shiro renegade but it's definitely not something that goes in your favour when you're out there in wvw land. When I am on the opposite side of things, I just see an insta bag on any class I am on when facing a renegade. Even on my zerg builds. I feel sorry for rev mains who have wanted the excitement of being able to use the new elite and shine in wvw/pvp since pof launch but have been disappointed greatly, but I do believe anet can be reasonable and think this through and come up with something daring. Please bring renegades out of the misty ashes!

@Ertrak.9506 said:

@X T D.6458 said:I had an idea some time ago to change Renegade into a sort of Auramancer, where the currently useless utility skills would be changed into effects that are similar to auras that affect the Rev and nearby allies. My biggest issue with Renegade is those terrible utility skills, the traits are pretty good and have a lot of potential. But currently Glint just offers so much more.

They could also just change the utility skills to be like regular wells, no npcs.

@X T D.6458 said:

@Ertrak.9506 said:

@X T D.6458 said:I had an idea some time ago to change Renegade into a sort of Auramancer, where the currently useless utility skills would be changed into effects that are similar to auras that affect the Rev and nearby allies. My biggest issue with Renegade is those terrible utility skills, the traits are pretty good and have a lot of potential. But currently Glint just offers so much more.

I like the concept of the npc’s but it’s kinda weird that they are char for non char characters. Generic spirits like gw1 ritualist would have been better imo.

@Brother.1504 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Ertrak.9506 said:

@X T D.6458 said:I had an idea some time ago to change Renegade into a sort of Auramancer, where the currently useless utility skills would be changed into effects that are similar to auras that affect the Rev and nearby allies. My biggest issue with Renegade is those terrible utility skills, the traits are pretty good and have a lot of potential. But currently Glint just offers so much more.

My problem with the npcs is that they can be cc'ed/killed making the skills unreliable. This would not be as big of an issue if Rev actually had a choice in utility but since you have no alternatives to take, it makes those skills totally useless.

@X T D.6458 said:

@Brother.1504 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Ertrak.9506 said:

@X T D.6458 said:I had an idea some time ago to change Renegade into a sort of Auramancer, where the currently useless utility skills would be changed into effects that are similar to auras that affect the Rev and nearby allies. My biggest issue with Renegade is those terrible utility skills, the traits are pretty good and have a lot of potential. But currently Glint just offers so much more.

Yeah you're basically locked down essentially in terms of utility

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Brother.1504 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Ertrak.9506 said:

@X T D.6458 said:I had an idea some time ago to change Renegade into a sort of Auramancer, where the currently useless utility skills would be changed into effects that are similar to auras that affect the Rev and nearby allies. My biggest issue with Renegade is those terrible utility skills, the traits are pretty good and have a lot of potential. But currently Glint just offers so much more.

I am honestly surprised that after all this time they still haven't changed these skills.

Long answer: Click my signature

Short answer: Rev is balanced around nearly requiring Glint in PvP to not die. Without a good source of sustain and defense to make up for losing that, Renegade will always be bottom tier.

@X T D.6458 said:

@Ertrak.9506 said:

@X T D.6458 said:I had an idea some time ago to change Renegade into a sort of Auramancer, where the currently useless utility skills would be changed into effects that are similar to auras that affect the Rev and nearby allies. My biggest issue with Renegade is those terrible utility skills, the traits are pretty good and have a lot of potential. But currently Glint just offers so much more.

I mean that's definitely true. The real difference i think it the effect being mobile. But then again maybe its op for the effects to be mobile.

I would really like if they changed icerazor to always attack the target you are attacking, provided both you and the target are in the aoe. This would be really really nice for pve and pvp i think.

@Ertrak.9506 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Ertrak.9506 said:

@X T D.6458 said:I had an idea some time ago to change Renegade into a sort of Auramancer, where the currently useless utility skills would be changed into effects that are similar to auras that affect the Rev and nearby allies. My biggest issue with Renegade is those terrible utility skills, the traits are pretty good and have a lot of potential. But currently Glint just offers so much more.

The npcs that pop with these skills just need to be removed, they make these static skills very unreliable especially in situations where there are a lot of things on your screen and you simply cannot track if they are actually working or not. When you combine these npcs with static skills that you have to stand in to get the effect, you turn what could be really good skills into something totally unusable.

Hey Brother. I've been messing around with the functionality of the renegade in our WvW runs. While the renegade's support is very powerful, it's very hard to use and large zergs make placing them effectively a very difficult task. What's more, they have their own personal boon table and don't share any of your boons, making them squishy and weak unless your party or you is buffing them. Such a waste of boons to give an 'ability' protection and might (among other boons). I really hope the Revenant Dev takes a closer look into all of these problems. I really love renegade for it's hidden potential...

The functionality of the summons in WvW definitely needs to be improved.
--Developers greatly reduced the damage that summons take from Non-Player-Characters. They need to apply this toughness to the summons in WvW vs Player characters. Making their resilience scale with number of enemy players within a 2000 radius would help balance them and make them sustainable. This insures that smaller groups could still kill them, but 50 man zergs cannot steam roll them as easily. Balance is key.

--The Renegade is a powerful support hybrid class. The talent "All for One" is a support based party inspiration talent and should to be expanded. While providing protection, it should also provide one unique buff for each summon as well. Daring should provide a few stacks of group stability, Bastion should provide regeneration, Ire should provide Vigor, Rage should provide Retaliation, and Summit should provide Swiftness. These are all the buffs that renegade provides to the party via Boon Spirit and other means, this helps them maintain those buffs better on their party while also providing the elusive swiftness boon that commanders demand of Revenants in WvW.

--Razorclaws Rage is a party support buff that provides a bleeding proc on attack. Since the ability is an elite class specialized party support buff, and Revenant is locked into this skill regardless of what kind of build they choose to be, this ability's damage modifier needs to be changed to consider alternative builds, not just the revenant's own condition power. OR It needs to provide something else beneficial to the group to compensate for it's overall limited usefulness.

--Icerazor's Ire should have the cripple removed on the 20x hits component, and instead pulse a ~1 second Chill effect on 5 targets every second while caught within the summon's 360 range field. His name is Icerazor after all.

--If these summons are going to be CC'able and kill-able, then their effects need to be more devastating while also sustaining them too. Or even better, give them a component that harshly punishes people for killing them. That works too. Shoot, lets go a step forward and make the summons punish people for CC'ing them as well. Turn all these horrible checks and balances into a benefit that makes WvW raids proud to have Renegades in their parties.

--For the love of all that is renegade, make these 5 limited summons share the Renegade's Boons. An 'ability' should not need to be buffed with exterior boons to be good. This is just taking boons away from your allies and you...