steki.1478 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Few days ago I was lurking around SM and someone mentioned that deadeye's on top floor so I decided to go and try to kill it. However, the only thing I managed to do is get marked and one shotted a minute later. Now I understand that with old malice that was actually useful, but I thought that rework made perma stealth approach useless and that DE only gets additional malice/damage while spending initiative (I got attacked only once before backstab, screenshots are below). I'm not sure how many boons a thief can get under stealth or how many dmg modifiers, but the damage dealt seems a bit too high. What's that about?Bonus picture with daredevil: no boons, no sigil stacks. I normally have 2k armor and get hit between 10-15k with backstab at most (usually below 10k) , but this time I had 2500.https://imgur.com/a/K238IpZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bq pd.2148 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 @"steki.1478" said:Few days ago I was lurking around SM and someone mentioned that deadeye's on top floor so I decided to go and try to kill it. However, the only thing I managed to do is get marked and one shotted a minute later. Now I understand that with old malice that was actually useful, but I thought that rework made perma stealth approach useless and that DE only gets additional malice/damage while spending initiative (I got attacked only once before backstab, screenshots are below). I'm not sure how many boons a thief can get under stealth or how many dmg modifiers, but the damage dealt seems a bit too high. What's that about?Bonus picture with daredevil: no boons, no sigil stacks. I normally have 2k armor and get hit between 10-15k with backstab at most (usually below 10k) , but this time I had 2500.https://imgur.com/a/K238IpZthat deadeye was me on alt account in only exotics.you were playing fresh air and were standing in 2nd floor so the guards from above would have killed me in seconds if did attack you before cause no defense against guards wvw skill. i did get one spotters on you at the beginning had 3 malice , rest with MI (deadeye trait that grants malice on healing and marking). that backstab was lower than expected with main acc against fresh air i mostly hit up to 35k malicious backstab.malicious backstab is different then normal as it has +10% damage per malice. on top i play with critical strikes over trickery what most use so i got alot higher burst.the picture is a daredevil so alot lower backstab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steki.1478 Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share Posted June 1, 2018 @MUDse.7623 said:@"steki.1478" said:Few days ago I was lurking around SM and someone mentioned that deadeye's on top floor so I decided to go and try to kill it. However, the only thing I managed to do is get marked and one shotted a minute later. Now I understand that with old malice that was actually useful, but I thought that rework made perma stealth approach useless and that DE only gets additional malice/damage while spending initiative (I got attacked only once before backstab, screenshots are below). I'm not sure how many boons a thief can get under stealth or how many dmg modifiers, but the damage dealt seems a bit too high. What's that about?Bonus picture with daredevil: no boons, no sigil stacks. I normally have 2k armor and get hit between 10-15k with backstab at most (usually below 10k) , but this time I had 2500.https://imgur.com/a/K238IpZthat deadeye was me on alt account in only exotics.you were playing fresh air and were standing in 2nd floor so the guards from above would have kitten me in seconds if did attack you before cause no defense against guards wvw skill. i did get one spotters on you at the beginning had 3 malice , rest with MI (deadeye trait that grants malice on healing and marking). that backstab was lower than expected with main acc against fresh air i mostly hit up to 35k malicious backstab.malicious backstab is different then normal as it has +10% damage per malice. on top i play with critical strikes over trickery what most use so i got alot higher burst.the picture is a daredevil not the deadeye with the malicious backstab, they also got different rankI see, 30k+ seems a bit ridiculous though, but as I said, I had higher armor than usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bq pd.2148 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 @steki.1478 said:@MUDse.7623 said:@steki.1478 said:Few days ago I was lurking around SM and someone mentioned that deadeye's on top floor so I decided to go and try to kill it. However, the only thing I managed to do is get marked and one shotted a minute later. Now I understand that with old malice that was actually useful, but I thought that rework made perma stealth approach useless and that DE only gets additional malice/damage while spending initiative (I got attacked only once before backstab, screenshots are below). I'm not sure how many boons a thief can get under stealth or how many dmg modifiers, but the damage dealt seems a bit too high. What's that about?Bonus picture with daredevil: no boons, no sigil stacks. I normally have 2k armor and get hit between 10-15k with backstab at most (usually below 10k) , but this time I had 2500.https://imgur.com/a/K238IpZthat deadeye was me on alt account in only exotics.you were playing fresh air and were standing in 2nd floor so the guards from above would have kitten me in seconds if did attack you before cause no defense against guards wvw skill. i did get one spotters on you at the beginning had 3 malice , rest with MI (deadeye trait that grants malice on healing and marking). that backstab was lower than expected with main acc against fresh air i mostly hit up to 35k malicious backstab.malicious backstab is different then normal as it has +10% damage per malice. on top i play with critical strikes over trickery what most use so i got alot higher burst.the picture is a daredevil not the deadeye with the malicious backstab, they also got different rankI see, 30k+ seems a bit ridiculous though, but as I said, I had higher armor than usual.well thats what you get if you build nearly everything into dealing 1 big hit, you can see the build used in the deadeye build thread if you want to test a bit what strength / weakness that got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSeed.3528 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 @MUDse.7623 said:@"steki.1478" said:Few days ago I was lurking around SM and someone mentioned that deadeye's on top floor so I decided to go and try to kill it. However, the only thing I managed to do is get marked and one shotted a minute later. Now I understand that with old malice that was actually useful, but I thought that rework made perma stealth approach useless and that DE only gets additional malice/damage while spending initiative (I got attacked only once before backstab, screenshots are below). I'm not sure how many boons a thief can get under stealth or how many dmg modifiers, but the damage dealt seems a bit too high. What's that about?Bonus picture with daredevil: no boons, no sigil stacks. I normally have 2k armor and get hit between 10-15k with backstab at most (usually below 10k) , but this time I had 2500.https://imgur.com/a/K238IpZthat deadeye was me on alt account in only exotics.you were playing fresh air and were standing in 2nd floor so the guards from above would have killed me in seconds if did attack you before cause no defense against guards wvw skill. i did get one spotters on you at the beginning had 3 malice , rest with MI (deadeye trait that grants malice on healing and marking). that backstab was lower than expected with main acc against fresh air i mostly hit up to 35k malicious backstab.malicious backstab is different then normal as it has +10% damage per malice. on top i play with critical strikes over trickery what most use so i got alot higher burst.the picture is a daredevil so alot lower backstab lol before scrolling down I somehow knew it was going to be you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandtomatoe.2045 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Thief backstab is getting really strong! But they deserve it its a tough attack to set up. So much mass damage aoe in this game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 @"Grandtomatoe.2045" said:Thief backstab is getting really strong! But they deserve it its a tough attack to set up. So much mass damage aoe in this game!it really isnt though, not with shadow arts and DE. it can be tricky or a "tough" as a meta D/p but it is very easy to land a back stab when you can pretty much be in stealth indefinitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:@"Grandtomatoe.2045" said:Thief backstab is getting really strong! But they deserve it its a tough attack to set up. So much mass damage aoe in this game!it really isnt though, not with shadow arts and DE. it can be tricky or a "tough" as a meta D/p but it is very easy to land a back stab when you can pretty much be in stealth indefinitely. No it's tough. Indefinite stealth only works assuming that you're using the D/P build. Give it a few, and I'm sure that Anet will find some way to nerf it into being unusable. Even if they don't, if you got those players smart enough to bring a reveal utility for once, instead of complaining about perma stealth thieves... you're kinda screwed if you were packing basilisk venom.Dual Daggers, it's a frustrating experience because the players don't exactly hold still for you. Combined with that 1 second delay for a damn miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bq pd.2148 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:@"Grandtomatoe.2045" said:Thief backstab is getting really strong! But they deserve it its a tough attack to set up. So much mass damage aoe in this game!it really isnt though, not with shadow arts and DE. it can be tricky or a "tough" as a meta D/p but it is very easy to land a back stab when you can pretty much be in stealth indefinitely. No it's tough. Indefinite stealth only works assuming that you're using the D/P build. Give it a few, and I'm sure that Anet will find some way to nerf it into being unusable. Even if they don't, if you got those players smart enough to bring a reveal utility for once, instead of complaining about perma stealth thieves... you're kinda screwed if you were packing basilisk venom.Dual Daggers, it's a frustrating experience because the players don't exactly hold still for you. Combined with that 1 second delay for a kitten miss.you dont need an offhand pistol to permastealth as DE with SA. but as backstab is super slow and feels like it has maybe half the normal melee range landing it without a teleport on a moving target can be difficult. i would gladly see the cooldown of backstab increased to 2 seconds if it was faster and more fluid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 @MUDse.7623 said:@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:@"Grandtomatoe.2045" said:Thief backstab is getting really strong! But they deserve it its a tough attack to set up. So much mass damage aoe in this game!it really isnt though, not with shadow arts and DE. it can be tricky or a "tough" as a meta D/p but it is very easy to land a back stab when you can pretty much be in stealth indefinitely. No it's tough. Indefinite stealth only works assuming that you're using the D/P build. Give it a few, and I'm sure that Anet will find some way to nerf it into being unusable. Even if they don't, if you got those players smart enough to bring a reveal utility for once, instead of complaining about perma stealth thieves... you're kinda screwed if you were packing basilisk venom.Dual Daggers, it's a frustrating experience because the players don't exactly hold still for you. Combined with that 1 second delay for a kitten miss.you dont need an offhand pistol to permastealth as DE with SA. but as backstab is super slow and feels like it has maybe half the normal melee range landing it without a teleport on a moving target can be difficult. i would gladly see the cooldown of backstab increased to 2 seconds if it was faster and more fluid.If it was faster, I probably wouldn't mind it. But increasing it to two seconds, I don't know about that. Two seconds for dagger only maybe.... but only the Deadeye can justify that sort of cool down due to the raw hurt it pushes. And tacking that onto Deadeye only would make the class feel pretty terrible with dagger. It'd be as bullshit as the Exhaustion nerf to Unhindered Combatant.Making it unblockable would completely negate the main reason why the cool down was added in the first place (A response to backstab being blocked by aegis, but not revealing the thief). And increasing the backstab damage would make other players scream out in outrage.But back to the perma stealth bit. That's assuming Deadeye, and not the other specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 @MUDse.7623 said:@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:@"Grandtomatoe.2045" said:Thief backstab is getting really strong! But they deserve it its a tough attack to set up. So much mass damage aoe in this game!it really isnt though, not with shadow arts and DE. it can be tricky or a "tough" as a meta D/p but it is very easy to land a back stab when you can pretty much be in stealth indefinitely. No it's tough. Indefinite stealth only works assuming that you're using the D/P build. Give it a few, and I'm sure that Anet will find some way to nerf it into being unusable. Even if they don't, if you got those players smart enough to bring a reveal utility for once, instead of complaining about perma stealth thieves... you're kinda screwed if you were packing basilisk venom.Dual Daggers, it's a frustrating experience because the players don't exactly hold still for you. Combined with that 1 second delay for a kitten miss.you dont need an offhand pistol to permastealth as DE with SA. but as backstab is super slow and feels like it has maybe half the normal melee range landing it without a teleport on a moving target can be difficult. i would gladly see the cooldown of backstab increased to 2 seconds if it was faster and more fluid.They can increase it to 3 seconds (same duration as Revealed) if it only triggers on actual hit, otherwise, 1s is good enough. However, we do need it to be faster and smoother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bq pd.2148 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:@MUDse.7623 said:@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:@"Grandtomatoe.2045" said:Thief backstab is getting really strong! But they deserve it its a tough attack to set up. So much mass damage aoe in this game!it really isnt though, not with shadow arts and DE. it can be tricky or a "tough" as a meta D/p but it is very easy to land a back stab when you can pretty much be in stealth indefinitely. No it's tough. Indefinite stealth only works assuming that you're using the D/P build. Give it a few, and I'm sure that Anet will find some way to nerf it into being unusable. Even if they don't, if you got those players smart enough to bring a reveal utility for once, instead of complaining about perma stealth thieves... you're kinda screwed if you were packing basilisk venom.Dual Daggers, it's a frustrating experience because the players don't exactly hold still for you. Combined with that 1 second delay for a kitten miss.you dont need an offhand pistol to permastealth as DE with SA. but as backstab is super slow and feels like it has maybe half the normal melee range landing it without a teleport on a moving target can be difficult. i would gladly see the cooldown of backstab increased to 2 seconds if it was faster and more fluid.If it was faster, I probably wouldn't mind it. But increasing it to two seconds, I don't know about that. Two seconds for dagger only maybe.... but only the Deadeye can justify that sort of cool down due to the raw hurt it pushes. And tacking that onto Deadeye only would make the class feel pretty terrible with dagger. It'd be as kitten as the Exhaustion nerf to Unhindered Combatant.Making it unblockable would completely negate the main reason why the cool down was added in the first place (A response to backstab being blocked by aegis, but not revealing the thief). And increasing the backstab damage would make other players scream out in outrage.But back to the perma stealth bit. That's assuming Deadeye, and not the other specs.well fat disgrace said it isnt though as DE with SA, you said only with d/p. but you can easily permastealth without offhand pistol as DE with SA, there is just no reason to use offhand dagger here :Dso yep it is about DE i guess.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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