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Mesmer still has to much evade, invulnerability and fucking clone spam please nerf for Grenth's sake


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Anet,

This class is still fucking ridiculous to fight and needs more nerfs.The only thing anyone can do is spam AoE in its general direction and hope that the Mesmer screws up and forgets to spam one of its 1000s of evades, vulnerabilities or armies of clones in return.

PLEASE NERF MESMER MORE!Ty.

Sincerely,Everyone Who Has Ever Attempted To Fight A Mesmer Ever

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@"Dawdler.8521" said:I'd still like to see a chart of the top 100 players and the class distribution among them.

Just saying. I am genuinely curious how many mesmers there are. Going by these forums it must be 70%+? Maybe even 90%!

That's what i said on the other topic, the problem is that the meta on top level is much different from mid level. Why ? Because it usually takes 1 player, 1 mistake, or 1 bad setup to get chain killed against condi mesmers/scourges. Alternatively, when all 5 people do know how to rotate properly and are willing to reroll from a bad setup, mesmers are surely annoying but handable.

If you play poker on amateur level, you will find people going " All in " at any hand, making it entirely luck based. But you won't see this being done on top level, because this isn't the same at all.

What i mean is that these setups( mirages/scourges/condi thieves) are good for beating average players thanks to solo queue issues, but nowhere help you getting any better..

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@Dawdler.8521 said:I'd still like to see a chart of the top 100 players and the class distribution among them.

Just saying. I am genuinely curious how many mesmers there are. Going by these forums it must be 70%+? Maybe even 90%!

Even if the class distribution for the top 100 was released, and it came out that only a single player on the leaderboards was actually a mesmer, it wouldn't matter.

You forget that ranked is Conquest. It's a 5v5 gamemode. Any class can be extremely busted 1v1 but the fact that you can't 1v5 helps even things out (in terms of class distribution on the leaderboards.)

Regardless, while Chrono is manageable (although still extremely tanky), Mirage is still busted. Only a few people can't seem to recognize that.

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@aDemoNnDisguisE.8576 said:Anet,

This class is still kitten ridiculous to fight and needs more nerfs.The only thing anyone can do is spam AoE in its general direction and hope that the Mesmer screws up and forgets to spam one of its 1000s of evades, vulnerabilities or armies of clones in return.

PLEASE NERF MESMER MORE!Ty.

Sincerely,Everyone Who Has Ever Attempted To Fight A Mesmer Ever

Evades: 2 dodges, possibly one Mirage Cloak utility since the other two are Blink and Portal, up to 3 mirrors on Distortion if they take Desert Distortion (That's much less than 1000s)Invulnerabilities: 1 every 50 seconds and Mirages don't take DominationArmy of Clones: Lol rlly.

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I feel like the OP may be a necro main. Regardless.Condi's in this game are busted. If you are having issues with condi mirage welcome to the club ( though as a scourge you shouldn't) Condi's should never be burst, and until that actual issue is addressed you aren't going to see a significant change.If you are having issues keeping track of the mesmer because you get easily confused by pink images on the screen might I suggest trying to learn the class better. OR try using this thing called AoE's.And I am honestly curiousWhy have the tools mesmer has had since release all of a sudden bothering you?

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I don't how much evade spam mirage has in spvp, but in the mirage cloak alone is just as much as thief with perma vigor income...not acro/daredevil combo though. i dunno if theres power mirages run double energy sigual or not but they are able evade a lot, and thats with out sword #2 and f4. i think a lot of people also hate the fact that mirage cloak enables them to do what ever they want while in it so it acts an active invul.

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@EpicTurtle.8571 said:Army of Clones: Lol rlly.

He's probably referring to the axe/? sword/torch troll build people are using in the new FFA arena. While the build is subpar in an sPvP match, for 1v1 its pretty crazy. The clone spam, stealths, invuln, axe 3 scramble etc is a cluttered mess and pretty effective in 1v1.

Im not sure exactly what the build is but its basically using all the clone generation traits in combination with axe skills and mirage cloaks. Escape artist, deceptive evasion, self deception etc. As soon as you shatter 3 clones, 3 more are instantly up, rinse n repeat almost non stop.

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@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:I don't how much evade spam mirage has in spvp

K

, but in the mirage cloak alone is just as much as thief with perma vigor income........not acro/daredevil combo though.

k.....

i dunno if theres power mirages run double energy sigual

EDIT: I'm going to assume you meant double energy sigil as in one on each weapon, yes, I can think of a couple of classes that benefit from having double energy

or not but they are able evade a lot, and thats with out sword #2 and f4.

How?

The ability to dodge as much as a thief with perma vigor without the help of sword or distortion not only sounds incorrect, I'm honestly really leaning on the "thats straight up false" fence because this doesn't sound at all correct.Like if we were to compare how often a thief could dodge with just vigor and sword it blows the mesmer and other classes really completely out of the water.

So how do you know if this is possible? Can you explain it? Can you replicate it?

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@Sampson.2403 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:Army of Clones: Lol rlly.

He's probably referring to the axe/? sword/torch troll build people are using in the new FFA arena. While the build is subpar in an sPvP match, for 1v1 its pretty crazy. The clone spam, stealths, invuln, axe 3 scramble etc is a cluttered mess and pretty effective in 1v1.

Im not sure exactly what the build is but its basically using all the clone generation traits in combination with axe skills and mirage cloaks. Escape artist, deceptive evasion, self deception etc. As soon as you shatter 3 clones, 3 more are instantly up, rinse n repeat almost non stop.

Ah, it's all the sword ambush, that attack does way too much imo. It's a daze, gap closer, and spawns a clone. It's one of the few things I'll accept as an example of Mirage being overtuned because, to be fair, it is.

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@Nash.3974 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:Army of Clones: Lol rlly.

He's probably referring to the axe/? sword/torch troll build people are using in the new FFA arena. While the build is subpar in an sPvP match, for 1v1 its pretty crazy. The clone spam, stealths, invuln, axe 3 scramble etc is a cluttered mess and pretty effective in 1v1.

Im not sure exactly what the build is but its basically using all the clone generation traits in combination with axe skills and mirage cloaks. Escape artist, deceptive evasion, self deception etc. As soon as you shatter 3 clones, 3 more are instantly up, rinse n repeat almost non stop.

Ah, it's all the sword ambush, that attack does way too much imo. It's a daze, gap closer, and spawns a clone. It's one of the few things I'll accept as an example of Mirage being overtuned because, to be fair, it is.

Who are you to decide whether a nerf for Mesmer is justified or not? A Mesmer main omegalul.Please stop defending the op-ness of Mirage, you are so pathetic.So you don’t have 1000s evades right? Just 2 dodges as well as perma vigor and don’t forget the axe and utility skill that detargets you oh and the access to stealth oh and the distortion of f4 and sword 2 oh and then after you used those your energy is back oh and on weapon swap is a sigil of energy oh and the heal got back up nice let’s use the energy from the adventure rune, hmm still pressured?Let’s make the opponent lose the target again and don’t forget to perma blind your foe with shatters during all of this and spam 15 stacks confusion and cover the conditions with 4 other condis leaving your opponent to literally 0 counterplay.If really all of this doesn’t work out let’s just portal out or blink away.Note that you can evade while bursting your target, and don’t worry if your first burst misses you still have about 5 more tries to burst, atleast the third one should apply since as opposed to mirages other classes can not spam evades. L M A OTL;DR: There really isn’t any issue at all with mirage.

Damn dude, calm down. It's just a game. If you decide to take something this personally you definitively should not be let anywhere near a balance discussion. For future reference, anyone has access to sigils of energy or runes of the adventurer, that's not Mirage exclusive, they just happen to synergize well. If you'd read any of my previous comments you'd know I think Blinding Dissipation+Ineptitude should've been looked at a while ago. Nowhere did I say Mirage has no issues.

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Chronomancer is tentatively fixed. Power Mesmer is fine.

The only thing they need to deal with is elusive mind. Being able to break stuns with a dodge that already allows you to ignore interrupts is too much for a class that relies on deception to be effective.

If they are annoying and deceptive, stuns should punish them.

Other than that, mesmer is annoying, but fine.

That being said, I'd take some of the complaints here with a grain of salt. Their underlying messages are true. I don't know how a team of people looked at a class board and decided that a dodge that allows the continuation of channels and breaks stun on top of a class that can force you to switch targets, stealth itself, and drop dot condis on you so fast it makes your head spin would be good for anyone except pve players.

Not to detract from their attempts to fix it as they did balance chrono; I am just confused as to why they crafted it like that, knowing full well that pvp player behavior overwhelmingly favors classes that have miniscule weaknesses. If it was an oversight they would have patched it immediately. If it was to sell x-packs, then why leave revenant underwhelming?

Balance devs, if you're reading these threads, consider a preview week where you can test balance changes on the community for a couple of days before pushing it live.

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@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

This class is still kitten ridiculous to fight and needs more nerfs.The only thing anyone can do is spam AoE in its general direction and hope that the Mesmer screws up and forgets to spam one of its 1000s of evades, vulnerabilities or armies of clones in return.

PLEASE NERF MESMER MORE!Ty.

Sincerely,Everyone Who Has Ever Attempted To Fight A Mesmer Ever

Evades: 2 dodges, possibly one Mirage Cloak utility since the other two are Blink and Portal, up to 3 mirrors on Distortion if they take Desert Distortion (That's much less than 1000s)Invulnerabilities: 1 every 50 seconds and Mirages don't take DominationArmy of Clones: Lol rlly.

Right so I assume this wasn’t meant to make mirage look balanced?I didn’t take anything personal lol, it’s just such bs you are saying that’s why I was so harsh with my comment.But again you had nothing to debunk. Of course everyone has access to the sigil and the rune, but not everybody can use the rune since it has condi damage and also the fact that mirage just happens to synergize well with these is exactly the issue. You can’t have all of this happening and on top of that have runes and sigils synergyzing you to even more brokeness.What needs to happen is survivability has to be toned down as well as the multiply burst ability, because whenever I dodge the mirages burst he can just burst me again and again since nearly every ability bursts you, every ability is offensive and defensive and the fact that the spam condition is confusion leads to even less counterplay because I‘m left with either decide to do nothing and eat the entire burst, or to try to cleanse the condis and die doing that because of the confusion. This can’t be a thing and stealth and detargeting is just even more pathetic on top of that, as if clones wouldn’t give people a hard time focusing the Mesmer already

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It's really just the condi application that is out of this world broken. Let the condis do ridiculous amounts of damage, that's fine, but being able to add stacks after stacks after stacks after your opponent perfectly timed their cleanses multiple times in a row---now that's just lazy, spammy, mindless gameplay. Very minimal skill involved there.

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@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:Not to detract from their attempts to fix it as they did balance chrono; I am just confused as to why they crafted it like that, knowing full well that pvp player behavior overwhelmingly favors classes that have miniscule weaknesses. If it was an oversight they would have patched it immediately. If it was to sell x-packs, then why leave revenant underwhelming?

Balance devs, if you're reading these threads, consider a preview week where you can test balance changes on the community for a couple of days before pushing it live.

/shrug

They nerfed Holo pretty hard before launch (and it's going to get nerfed some more), yet left scourge and mirage in as broken messes despite people pointing out how bad the issues were. I'm not sure if there even is a balance team because of how long it took them to address (some of) those issues.

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