Planning to make a Rev

wanted to know whats the issue with condi rev and why it doesn't get played?

looking at some skills they can do some insane dps with condi(on paper)and have a solid amount of condi removal/Resistance overall from what i can see.

clearly like i stated im new to the rev however they have me interested in playing it and this is what i was looking into trying http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNApXlnXMfNSumvJRZzHlst5kSY38SJ4burkFUl6vETxWktIWioINAKgGA-jJxHQBosMw3OFAkb/BA8EAAA . Like i said im new/asking why it doesn't get played so feel free to teach me a few things before i pick up the class, i main engi however i'm looking to pick this class up as my new main regardless of how good or bad the devs are toward it.

Renegades does not have insane dps. Remember, they are quite hamstrung by energy. The summons are an easilly killed liability that most will be running out of the area of effect of.Finally the shortbow is terrible, and theres no defensives on it.

And a major weakness of Renegades is conditions. Removing just one condition on legendswap is not going to amount to much if you get loaded with 5+. Plus reputedly pulsating pestilence doesnt transfer conditions, but just copies them yet. And you give up the dps trait diabolic inferno which further tanks renegade dps.

@"LucianDK.8615" said:Renegades does not have insane dps. Remember, they are quite hamstrung by energy. The summons are an easilly killed liability that most will be running out of.Finally the shortbow is terrible, and theres no defensives on it.

And a major weakness of Renegades is conditions. Removing just one condition on legendswap is not going to amount to much if you get loaded with 5+. Plus reputedly pulsating pestilence doesnt transfer conditions, but just copies them yet. And you give up the dps trait diabolic inferno which further tanks renegade dps.

According to wiki, this is fixed?:

May 08, 2018 This trait now transfers, instead of copying, up to 3 conditions from the player to nearby enemies when swapping legends.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/39239/pulsating-pestilence#latestThe fix failed.

Depending on game mode, it generally breaks down to 3 reoccurring problems.

• The DPS rotations are really static (as in not very flexible)..... mostly because condi's damage is weighted heavily on Mace auto attack.
• Short bow is awkward, has limited utility, and not enough CCs for its energy cost. Its basically there (if at all) because its the only other condi weapon, and its ranged. But in most cases you'd take Staff solely for the heavy CC it can put out.
• Both the Legend stance skills and F-skills are a hot mess. The stance skills are pretty powerful..... but ONLY on targets that don't move, don't AOE CC, and have at least Champ levels of health. This makes them ok-ish in Raid scenarios (caveat CCs), but almost useless in PvP and WvW where the summons lose their Damage reduction bonus, and thus get thrashed by collateral AOE, or the target just respositiions out of its short range. The F-skills also don't fit well into a lot of comps, since Kalla is a support spec that had its primary feature (Fervor sharing) gutted into an unimpressive might shout. The alacrity on Orders is too cost heavy and too short for personal use, and Chrono still capable of generating it for a whole group with much less difficulty. Bombardment is only really put into the rotation because its there.

The problem here is that the Renegade is just another DPS spec in its current state, and what little utility it has isn't worth bringing a class that does either DPS or Support better. Its like everything wrong with Condi Soulbeast, but feels like it should interact better with its party. Its not a particularly bad in terms of raw DPS.... its just so clumsy in the way it has to be used to get its performance peak.

Even in a power build, which uses it for Max support utility, its just lack luster all around. While conceptually Renegade should have a lot of options available to it, its been seemingly sabotaged for every practical build concept it offers.

@"starlinvf.1358" said:

• The DPS rotations are really static (as in not very flexible)..... mostly because condi's damage is weighted heavily on Mace auto attack.
• Short bow is awkward, has limited utility, and not enough CCs for its energy cost. Its basically there (if at all) because its the only other condi weapon, and its ranged. But in most cases you'd take Staff solely for the heavy CC it can put out.
• Both the Legend stance skills and F-skills are a hot mess. The stance skills are pretty powerful..... but ONLY on targets that don't move, don't AOE CC, and have at least Champ levels of health. This makes them ok-ish in Raid scenarios (caveat CCs), but almost useless in PvP and WvW where the summons lose their Damage reduction bonus, and thus get thrashed by collateral AOE, or the target just respositiions out of its short range. The F-skills also don't fit well into a lot of comps, since Kalla is a support spec that had its primary feature (Fervor sharing) gutted into an unimpressive might shout. The alacrity on Orders is too cost heavy and too short for personal use, and Chrono still capable of generating it for a whole group with much less difficulty. Bombardment is only really put into the rotation because its there.

There's a lot wrong with the above 3 statements honestly, speaking strictly from a pve perspective (which is what a lot of your analysis is).

1) the Dps rotations are not weighted heavily towards autoattacks for Condi Renegade. Most of the damage comes from the skills. Autoattacks are used as filler when there's nothing else do to. On my last log for DPS Condi Ren 35% of my damage came from Burning and 35% from Torment 14% from bleeding 4% from poison and the rest was power damage from various attacks (mostly not autos). Since autoattacks only inflict Torment (and 1 stack of poison) you can immediately see that the fast majority of the damage does not come from autoattacks, but from Burning, bleeding, and non-autoattack torment. Going even further there are plenty of other attacks that inflict torment including Echoing Eruption, Temporal Rift, Embrace the Darkness and 33% of all critical hits which means that not even the full 35% of torment damage (maybe 60%-70% of it total) is damage from autoattacks.

2) Shortbow is clunky for pvp/wvw but is actually good for big hitboxes now and is a dps increase when used alongside Mace/Axe on those bosses. There's also an instant cast trick where you can get Sevenshot to hit even on small hitboxes. If using that it's also a dps increase on small hitbox.

3) CC doesn't effect Kalla summons in Raid scenarios. Fervor sharing was also never confirmed to actually exist by the devs; it was player speculation from the dialogue from the reveal trailer, but it was never mentioned after that. Orders from Above (and ONLY orders from above, no ventari) can be used to maintain 95% alacrity easily with a 26k dps rotation with two simple alterations to gear and rotation, which is great when combined with a quickness firebrand. Citadel Bombardment isn't "put into the rotation because it's there" but because its actually a good skill, especially on large hitboxes, allowing Devastation and Invocation Renegades to reach 34k & 37k+ on big hitbox.

I've experimented with condi rev in PVP and WvW, but that was back before PoF, so this perspective may be a bit dated. But... In WvW the three big issues with condi rev are range, impact, and active defenses.

Don't get me wrong, I have won 1v3 fights by luring them into a bottleneck and dropping unyielding anguish on them, but overall WvW is won at arms length. You're constantly in a max range fight, where 1200 distance is the short end of viable. Shortbow doesn't reach far enough, Kalla's summons don't reach far enough, Citadel doesn't reach far enough, etc. and so on. Whether you're in a zerg, skirmishing, or roaming, you'll get out-ranged and pummeled way too frequently. You can swap out to the hammer, but a hammer under viper gear hits like a wet noodle. For awhile our best condi weapon was mace + axe, which seems fine, but a more mobile enemy can just dance around that weapon set like it is nothing.

The second issue is that, in order to be good with condi in PVP/WvW, you need to inflict a lot of conditions at once, in order to cover your damaging conditions with other ones. Condi rev... does not do that. All of our skills inflict one, two conditions at maximum. While we have a lot of different conditions, these are all attached to different skills, so we're very slow to apply all of our conditions. This means that most of what we apply will end up cleansed away. Our conditions simply aren't applied fast enough, and the ramp up can be really damning when the fight is over in 10 seconds.

A third problem is the lack of active defenses. The simplicity of power rev means that you can run Invocation and Retribution at the same time, and using either staff or hammer provides plenty of defenses. Condi rev doesn't have such luck, since it needs to run corruption to do meaningful damage. I also needed to run herald back in the day, but using Renegade doesn't change this. Using Mallyx + Glint/Kalla gives us no active blocks, a maximum of one immunity skill, no evasion skills, and no true condition cleanses. We're stuck sacrificing all of the defensive goodies of either Retribution or Invocation, which leaves us quite helpless against any enemy that we can't brawl over.

Unfortunately, Renegade didn't really fix any of this.