A suggestion for fixing tactivator troll pulling

Problem: I've noticed at least once a day someone goes around to all our keeps and towers and all the tactivators to put everything on cooldown. Obviously, this leaves these structures quite vulnerable and can be a major factor in losing T3 keeps.

Suggestions for a solution, in order of my own preference:

1. Conditional pulls: You may only pull certain tactivators when certain conditions are met. These conditions could be static per tactic or configurable by the guild. Examples: You may only pull invulnerable walls after any one wall is under 50%. You may only pull chilling fog once an outer wall/gate has fallen. You may only pull EWP when an outer wall/gate has fallen. Conditions are lifted if there is an enemy combatant inside of the walls (lurking mesmer porting dudes in)

2. Similar to claiming, when someone tries to pull a tactivator, and the guild has "guild approval" set, it will first put a message on all the guild member's screens that such and such would like to activate a tactivator at "that keep you claimed" -- a guild which is paying attention could know that "yes, earth is under attack", hit approve, and the tactivator could be pulled --> chilling fog is unleashed. Or, if they try to pull chilling fog and the guild says "we don't even have any walls down" they could hit a button and block that pull attempt or ban that user from pulling their tactivators.

3. Another option is we could have tactivator pull logs and then ban specific trolls from pulling tactivators. Additional problem: making troll accounts, getting them to 30 and doing it all over again. Additional solution: only paid accounts can pull tactivators.

I like option 1. The other two have large downsides. What if no guildie is online or in WvW? Why should only paid accounts have access? What happens if the only person in keep is f2p? Logs wouldn't do much. It is hard enough to get any action in accounts by ANet.

I agree on the downsides, which is why 1 is the best we could come up with. It's a problem that needs solving and I hope we can get something positive out of this thread :)

Only able to pull tactivators if you own HoT since HoT is required to create them in the first place.

Or minimum wvw rank of like 100.

Or defensive tactics can only be used when the structure is currently under attack/has the defend event on. This would include chilling fog/invul walls/airship etc.

System needs to be kept automated, hence no reporting, logging or ban systems, maybe a delay can be implemented players for pulls. You can already do the guild only option to limit players who use them.

We find the guild only option is too limited. If we're off kicking the crap out of people in the field and no one is at the claimed keep on another map, then it can't get pulled and the keep gets lost. We need a middle ground between guild only and free-for-all

So.. the keeps are too far away for you to reach in time if there is a call out? Before they get into inner?

It would seem that maybe the EWP is a crutch? Like for some servers and guilds watchtower is as well.

Some form of callout should give you plenty of time to get there from spawn of the EWP is on cool down.

Remove Tactivators...

I like the second option suggested by the OP on the condition that if there's no guild members on map the tactic will be activated without the requirement of confirmation. It would reduce the possibility of abuse during primetime without removing the ability to utilize those tactics while no guild member is online/not afk.Also, if a guild member is online but does not "deny" use of the tactic within a certain timeframe, it would need to activate -- or guildies who are afk would block use of the tactic.

~ Kovu

This problem will be severely reduced soon... At least the problem of Tactivators being used maliciously, since when they release the new world creation system with randomized worlds people won't be able to put spies in specific worlds to maliciously deplete or put tactics on cooldown.

Also at that time, they can add a Alliance permission in addition to guild only, which would allow for more people to use tactics at the same time guaranteeing, to a point, that it won't be misued.

Aside from that, adding a WXP lvl restriction will probably be the best bet. The conditional activations would reduce the issue (at least as far as unintentional trolls), but not solve it, since spies could easily coordinate with friends on an enemy server to trigger the "under attack" conditions so he can put tactics on cool-down.

I have three accounts at rank 150+. I'm sure the spies do, too.I'd be against denying people of a low rank the ability to pull a tactic.If anything we should be finding a way to encourage new players, they start so far behind.

~ Kovu

I vote for sending some ninja-style Asurans to their house to duct tape their fingers and overload their computers with ley-line energy.

Simple change, partial solution: EWP can only be pulled when structure/waypoint is contested.This should prevent some of the EWP tests / trolls / spies.

@"TheQuickFox.3826" said:Simple change, partial solution: EWP can only be pulled when structure/waypoint is contested.This should prevent some of the EWP tests / trolls / spies.

Hardly anything will be prevented. Just tell someone on the enemy side to tap the keep and off you go.

Personally I am still in favor of name and shame. Whoever pulls a tactivator is stated ingame both on screen for those nearby (like when a guild claims an objective) and listed in the guild log for the guild owning the objective. When rightclicking on that player name, you have a new option - "Disallow this player to pull your guilds tactivators". When doing this, it will also send a guild announcement to all the guilds that player is in that he has been disallowed to use tactivators by your guild.

Done deal.

I would also be willing to accept a right click option with "Make this player enemy of your guild" which blocks him from using any of your tactivators, taking any supplies and getting any guild buffs around your guilds objectives, and it also does it for all the members in all his guilds.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"TheQuickFox.3826" said:Simple change, partial solution: EWP can only be pulled when structure/waypoint is contested.This should prevent some of the EWP tests / trolls / spies.

Your solution is fine indeed. Mine is only a partial solution but is is very simple: There is absolutely no reason why we would need two waypoints active on our keep or SMC. When the normal waypoint is accessible, EWP should not be pullable.

Best fix would be to put out a map wide message the same as capping an objective but naming the player who pulled what. "Player X used Waypoint Tactivator".

@"Caedmon.6798" said:Best fix would be to put out a map wide message the same as capping an objective but naming the player who pulled what. "Player X used Waypoint Tactivator".

There is one reason I would imagine ANET would not do this or any naming of the player: It might cause a lot of harassment on that player that ANET wouldn't be too fond of. What if the player was new to WvW and had no idea what it was?

I prefer the first option of conditional abilities to use the various tactics. It won't be 100% but at least they would only be pulled closer to more appropriate times. At least this way it's automated nature would mitigate the new player ignorance or the trolling veterans.

Some conditions I would imagine:

1. Invulnerable Fortifications - Outer wall/gate is at less than or equal to 50%
2. Chilling Fog - Inner wall/gate is at less than or equal to 50% (or enemy player is still inside inner)
3. Emergency Waypoint - Inner wall/gate is at less than or equal to 50% (or enemy player is still inside inner)
4. Airship Defense - Inner wall/gate is at less than or equal to 50% (or enemy player is still inside inner)

The reason I added the idea of for the inner wall to also be "less than or equal to 50%" is because some groups may only poke holes in SMC but not necessarily take it right away. So using any of those tactics may still be wasted.

@"Caedmon.6798" said:Best fix would be to put out a map wide message the same as capping an objective but naming the player who pulled what. "Player X used Waypoint Tactivator".

This. Although it should be team chat not just map chat. Also log an entry in one of the logs for easy access. Why should Anet be concerned that a map-wide message be issued? everyone should be accountable for their actions out there. If some new person starts pulling tactivators, the folks in the maps can point out not to do it, and if they keep doing it, then its a troll which will have a paper train.

This secrecy crap only benefits the trolls, exploiters and clowns . Having a more open system will allow players to keep each other accountable, and in the case of an extreme troll, allow accurate reporting to Anet of the grievances.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"TheQuickFox.3826" said:Simple change, partial solution: EWP can only be pulled when structure/waypoint is contested.This should prevent some of the EWP tests / trolls / spies.

I like it. The more somebody troll pulls, the more guilds are going to blacklist them, and eventually, that player won't be able to do much at all.

It’s player vs player, there will always be someone doing shady things. Just put a log of who pulled the tactivator last. If it becomes a regular occurrence with that person then report and maybe anet gives them a few days time out.

With the alliance system hitting i doubt we will see this happening, since if that person abuses it or does to greef local server with will be kciked from guild and alliance.

@Aeolus.3615 said:With the alliance system hitting i doubt we will see this happening, since if that person abuses it or does to greef local server with will be kciked from guild and alliance.

Ahh, but don't you see? Worlds will still be able to be transferred to. And someone being kicked from an alliance or guild is a PERFECT recipe for trolls.

Yep, it will cost gems, and yes, some of those worlds will be full, but being in the alliance won't necessarily matter.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:With the alliance system hitting i doubt we will see this happening, since if that person abuses it or does to greef local server with will be kciked from guild and alliance.

If that is how the new alliance system works ._. why i have the feeling it will create more issues than solve it????

This is how i tough it would work....The thing is player A is a troll with a 2nd account that is greefing the other server wich is main server is fighting, guild leader of the troll account sees it, and kicks the player from the guild cause he was damaging the gamemore with greefing the tactics to the other server could push at will.When player A got kicked from the guild that is represented in the alliance it would exclude him from that match as well and that alliance.

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:With the alliance system hitting i doubt we will see this happening, since if that person abuses it or does to greef local server with will be kciked from guild and alliance.

No. It would only prevent them from being [guaranteed] from being in the same world when the 8 week season restarts.

Interesting topicWe need this problem fixing

The first time I stepped foot into WvW I saw a Centaur Banner and thought, "Oooh cool, I wonder what this does!" So I grabbed it without really knowing anything about how I could have actually messed something up if the situation was a little different.What I'm trying to say is that it would be helpful if tactivators were explained better. I know there are trolls out there, but there are also people that really just don't know better. The system could be much better implemented in my opinion.