What is the need for all of the classes to be able to efficiently kill 1vs1?

In one hand, I understand because of the philosophy Anet had years ago, to give something new on the market, the No Holy Trinity game. Without healers and tanks, everyone had to be able to fight alone and win the PvE game. The only utility was few skills and blast finisher. Not that I agreed with it, it just made all classes the same, dps but with different skin and animations.

Fast forward raid releases, HoT and PoF expansions. Tanks and Healers became reality, and even Support. But...still with the 1vs1 damage approach. Why? A tank is a tank, Healer is a healer and Support is a support. There is more than enough of specializations which are damage oriented. Stop power creeping the game, I am VERY afraid of the next expansion. Stop with the damage approach!

No! I must be able to kill everyone! If I can't kill it, it must be nerfed to the ground so I can kill it! What? Healers and tanks/bunkers should be hard to kill? We don't have Trinity in GW2! Oh and also, please tank the damage in fractals/raids for me and heal me too. Thanks!

The joke is that the Thief, the class that should be the 1v1 king, is one of the worst at this role.

@"Specialka.7290" said:The joke is that the Thief, the class that should be the 1v1 king, is one of the worst at this role.

It does say when you create the class "deadly at 1 v 1".

I wonder if that means when you 1 v 1 as a thief, it's deadly for you?

You should read "you die in every single 1 v 1"

@Specialka.7290 said:The joke is that the Thief, the class that should be the 1v1 king, is one of the worst at this role.

TBH i've 'nt read anywhere thief was the best duellist tho . And the fact that it can't 1v1 everything doesn't mean it can't be strong either way.

Imagine being able to decap AND to kill easily the guy that's trying to prevent the decap ... non sense.

Its because PvP is a training ground for other game modes. If you cant 1v1 then you need to git gud

I was only half serious (ill leave it up to you which half), however even in PvP, if you see someone standing on a node, obviously you need to learn to beat them to decap as quickly as possible. If y ou cannot decap it, you just wasted valuable time you could have been elsewhere (capping or +1ing).

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:

@"Specialka.7290" said:The joke is that the Thief, the class that should be the 1v1 king, is one of the worst at this role.

In any game, Thief/Rogue are the 1v1 king, whatever the genre.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thief

Check the wiki page. "Dealdy on 1v1 combat". Just lawl, they are currently the worst at it.

@Specialka.7290 said:

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:

@Specialka.7290 said:The joke is that the Thief, the class that should be the 1v1 king, is one of the worst at this role.

And does that imply it has to stay this way forever ? I mean thief is still strong in the game where its design is the best . I remember way too many metas where thieves were rampaging . And Now it's still strong so I don't get why you complaining especially about thief being not being able to 1v1... well it's not its role.

It should be its role, as it always has. Every other games feature a rogue as a 1v1 monster. A High risk/High reward character. Currently, he is a High risk/low reward. best at capping/decapping. They should remane it "Runner" or "Flanker" at best. Thief does not fit.

Well, in current gw2, I do not see any High risk/High reward character for that matters. Most meta build are kitten easy to play.

@"Specialka.7290" said:It should be its role, as it always has. Every other games feature a rogue as a 1v1 monster. A High risk/High reward character. Currently, he is a High risk/low reward. best at capping/decapping. They should remane it "Runner" or "Flanker" at best. Thief does not fit.

Well, in current gw2, I do not see any High risk/High reward character for that matters. Most meta build are kitten easy to play.

I mean, most games thieves/rogues are good at 1v1ing squishies but typically get their teeth knocked in by people who both can survive their opening burst and hit back, and by people who know the rogue is around and can prepare themselves for it, which is true in GW2 as well.

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@"Specialka.7290" said:It should be its role, as it always has. Every other games feature a rogue as a 1v1 monster. A High risk/High reward character. Currently, he is a High risk/low reward. best at capping/decapping. They should remane it "Runner" or "Flanker" at best. Thief does not fit.

Well, in current gw2, I do not see any High risk/High reward character for that matters. Most meta build are kitten easy to play.

The issue is that there is no squishies atm in gw2. Even elem are more durable than a heavy armor class. And I won't mention mesmer.

I think... I'll leave this post for now ... I read too much non sense for today XD

@Specialka.7290 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Specialka.7290 said:It should be its role, as it always has. Every other games feature a rogue as a 1v1 monster. A High risk/High reward character. Currently, he is a High risk/low reward. best at capping/decapping. They should remane it "Runner" or "Flanker" at best. Thief does not fit.

Well, in current gw2, I do not see any High risk/High reward character for that matters. Most meta build are kitten easy to play.

Then go with Condi thief, it’s pretty damn good at killing people with almost no ability for them to retaliate since you dot them up and teleport away and just watch them die.

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Specialka.7290 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Specialka.7290 said:It should be its role, as it always has. Every other games feature a rogue as a 1v1 monster. A High risk/High reward character. Currently, he is a High risk/low reward. best at capping/decapping. They should remane it "Runner" or "Flanker" at best. Thief does not fit.

Well, in current gw2, I do not see any High risk/High reward character for that matters. Most meta build are kitten easy to play.

So to counter cheese, I should cheese myself? Great design.

@Specialka.7290 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Specialka.7290 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Specialka.7290 said:It should be its role, as it always has. Every other games feature a rogue as a 1v1 monster. A High risk/High reward character. Currently, he is a High risk/low reward. best at capping/decapping. They should remane it "Runner" or "Flanker" at best. Thief does not fit.

Well, in current gw2, I do not see any High risk/High reward character for that matters. Most meta build are kitten easy to play.

I mean if you’re wanting to be the king of 1v1 and have no chance of losing them as a thief Condi thief is your route, or you go super glassy and just burst someone 100-0 in 2s before they fully realize you’re there.

There’s also the more meta thief build of just teleporting around the map back capping as +1ing approach, but that isn’t what anyone in this thread seems to want.

It would just be nice to do things on the class you enjoy. Not some class you actually hate playing because it has too many flaws a few others do not have. Which is probably why people want to be able to 1v1 effectively without having to conform to some class someone didn't want to play from the start. They can of course fix this but they won't fix this because it is their game and their rules.

The point is people want to be skilled players not some face rolling machine. Especially one that doesn't need to think before they press a button. Mesmer, Necromancer, Warrior, Engineer, and Elementalist are perfect examples of what I mean. Of course you can just mash buttons the moment you see someone and drown them in damage. All while evading damage yourself for an entire 5 minutes. Yet when you play a Thief, Guardian, Revenant, or Ranger you have to vomit before your damage makes a difference and their healing is an atrocity that is underwhelming.

Now the funny thing is they seem to talk about the whole "No Holy Trinity" yet they follow it to the letter. All you need to do is read a build off metabattle and you're a killing machine. So long as you follow the meta of the trinity classes that ArenaNet has so carefully constructed at the moment. Mesmer, and Necromancer have the highest support damage. Warrior, and Engineer have the highest damage and tanking ability. All the while Elementalist can do damage, support, and healing. Those other 4 classes? Nah forget them they have no significance when you can be an immortal synergized god team.

So of course the game is going to power creep until the day the game goes offline which I doubt will happen anytime soon since Bless has that many refugees.(Edited for the meme)

There’s a weird myth surrounding thief that it cannot win 1v1, the issue isn’t that thief can not win 1v1 it’s that the time taken to win the 1v1 is better spent utilising it’s superior mobility to create uneven fights and unbalanced situations. The thief decaps a node to either nullify enemy team cap advantages elsewhere or to draw the enemy away from a fight they would be helpful in, this means the thief can make a 3v2 or 2v1 situation elsewhere to get a kill further carrying the momentum of a numbers advantage for its team.

There’s also another aspect that distorts the meta as well, any build weak to thief can be farmed by thief because you’re not likely to get away so you will very very rarely see those builds in the meta as that person will be useless most of the game. So you’re not likely to find people running a build that will lose a 1v1 to thief if players are fighting a thief.

@apharma.3741 said:There’s a weird myth surrounding thief that it cannot win 1v1, the issue isn’t that thief can not win 1v1 it’s that the time taken to win the 1v1 is better spent utilising it’s superior mobility to create uneven fights and unbalanced situations. The thief decaps a node to either nullify enemy team cap advantages elsewhere or to draw the enemy away from a fight they would be helpful in, this means the thief can make a 3v2 or 2v1 situation elsewhere to get a kill further carrying the momentum of a numbers advantage for its team.

There’s also another aspect that distorts the meta as well, any build weak to thief can be farmed by thief because you’re not likely to get away so you will very very rarely see those builds in the meta as that person will be useless most of the game. So you’re not likely to find people running a build that will lose a 1v1 to thief if players are fighting a thief.There was a podcast back in 2013? 2014? and it discussed how builds in PvP are tested against Thief. If you're not able to handle/stall Thief in some way or can't create advantages in other areas than Thief (e.g. teamfighting Necro) with babysitting, there was no value to the build.

Most viable builds can survive one now and drag out the fight, and that is why the Thief naturally fell into the +1 role, the mobility and burst package it offers (and the squishiness) defines it.

I would also like to add that there have been Thief-hunter builds like Trip Med Guard (GS/SwFc) back in Core, its presence on the map with a good player behind it can make life crap for you, and all it actually has to do is force you to disengage everywhere or die to it because it's an extreme hard counter. I think even the old Thief vs Mesmer thing didn't have so much molestation going on.

Nah man efficient killers dont 1v1. They roam. The best classes for dueling 1v1 actually have very inefficient killing power like the spellbreaker and excluding the condi mirage. What they have is sustained damage and survivability so these classes exploit mistakes and rely on cc and interrupt combos to deal damage in small bursts.

@Ralkuth.1456 said:

@apharma.3741 said:There’s a weird myth surrounding thief that it cannot win 1v1, the issue isn’t that thief can not win 1v1 it’s that the time taken to win the 1v1 is better spent utilising it’s superior mobility to create uneven fights and unbalanced situations. The thief decaps a node to either nullify enemy team cap advantages elsewhere or to draw the enemy away from a fight they would be helpful in, this means the thief can make a 3v2 or 2v1 situation elsewhere to get a kill further carrying the momentum of a numbers advantage for its team.

There’s also another aspect that distorts the meta as well, any build weak to thief can be farmed by thief because you’re not likely to get away so you will very very rarely see those builds in the meta as that person will be useless most of the game. So you’re not likely to find people running a build that will lose a 1v1 to thief if players are fighting a thief.There was a podcast back in 2013? 2014? and it discussed how builds in PvP are tested against Thief. If you're not able to handle/stall Thief in some way or can't create advantages in other areas than Thief (e.g. teamfighting Necro) with babysitting, there was no value to the build.

That’s because a build isn’t viable if it can’t do this and there is a thief on the enemy team. Thief has never had a true hard counter, mediguard and then mediDH did counter the thief but they’re both much slower than the thief so can be rotated around. The biggest issue in that situation is that your own team rotates in such a way that you have no good +1 which means your value drops to 0. Mediguard wasn’t in the same league as the thief mesmer counter because a thief can run away from the guard (they’re slow and still are comparatively slow even now) while the mesmer would generally be forced to use portal to survive which nullified any advantage to bringing it in the first place while having the same weaknesses as thief in terms of role.

what about reaper he is no healer nor support he is like holosmoth but holosmith have the AOE and less CD to use his mechanic so in my opinion ANET make POF to sell so hard in a way they also destroy the fun in competitive modesmirage better that teefFB better than tempest and scrapperSB better than any dueling hot elitescondi better than power !!!!!so may blinks nowso may dmg/evade in the same time !!!! no i have to say the current meta is still skill base

and increasing/decreasing No. here and their wont do balance some mechanic will remain op

@Mikali.9651 said:In one hand, I understand because of the philosophy Anet had years ago, to give something new on the market, the No Holy Trinity game.

Except the No Holy Trinity MMORPG was not new and had been done by several games before GW2.

@"Specialka.7290" said:It should be its role, as it always has. Every other games feature a rogue as a 1v1 monster. A High risk/High reward character. Currently, he is a High risk/low reward. best at capping/decapping. They should remane it "Runner" or "Flanker" at best. Thief does not fit.

Well, in current gw2, I do not see any High risk/High reward character for that matters. Most meta build are kitten easy to play.

What do you mean Thief does not fit? They steal everything! Be it a team-spot in sPvP or a Squad Slot in Zerg-fights in WvW. On occasion they even steal RAID slots! But most of the time security is spot on and get's them thrown out for their misbehavior on that part.

Oh yeah and they occasionally steal items from enemies they fight but that's chump-change.

It depends on what you mean by 1v1 though. Does being able to 1v1 mean you can kill every class one on one or that you can survive against any class one on one?

For example, Firebrand support can't kill anyone 1v1 but its also not going to lose a 1v1 n give up a node. But how many firebrands do you see trying to engage in 1v1s over nodes in spvp.

1v1 balance should (and i think it is, especially after chrono n druid nerfs) be balanced based on their effectiveness in sPvP game mode...not a duel to tEh death. Therefore best 1v1ers is probably mesmer and spellbreaker.