WvW Change Requests

tl:dr: Please focus on the WvW changes you talked about, especially allowing guilds to play on the same team.

Look, I get it. PvE/Raids/Fractals are the meat of the game when it comes to giving people reasons to buy gems. We've had two expansions over 6 years so far. Both of them added a lot of things to the game. Glinding and Mounts both are really well implemented mechanically, and overall I have enjoyed the content provided by GW2 currently. In fact, it should be pretty clear by now that the problems I have with Guild Wars 2 are more about you, not your game.

That said, I want to bring up a sore point. Whether you intended it or not, the choices you made on removing the Gift of Battle from an NPC vendor look like you attempted to sneak it in to get as little coverage as possible so players wouldn't be able to jump into WvW and spend all their badges and stock up on GoBs.

Being a core component of Legendary Crafting, this has hindered a lot of people from moving forward with their goals. I realize that there is some vision that is held that people need to participate in various parts of the game to be able to craft a legendary weapon. I recall the days when map completion in WvW was part of the requirement for the Gift of Exploration. I also recall the problems that arose from that due to the way server match ups worked. Some people had to wait months for their server to have the right color so they could get points of interest or vistas that otherwise were inaccessible. Obsidian Sanctum was a haven for trolls who were well versed in the PvP aspects of WvW that simply waited to kill any PvE players that showed up, always making sure to find a way to communicate to said PvE players such pleasantries as how they should also kill themselves in RL.

I myself have supported the return of the NPC vendor for the Gift of Battle, but, being understanding of the vision behind legendary crafting, I have thought for a long time about what the real problem could be. It's not that I think it's too hard to get Badges of Honor. Every GoB that I purchased from that vendor was purchased with badges that I picked up while participating in WvW activities, and they do tend to pile up. Frankly I'm probably still doing the WvW "Big Spender" daily using badges I gathered from doing world completion back when the maps were required.

The main issues I see with what is going on, based on observation not just in GW2 but years of playing MMOs as well as talking with other players, are as follows:

1. The Abusive nature of PvP or PvP related game modes is a big factor for a lot of casual players. You provide a large game with several different modes, and then want people to play those modes in order to obtain a given cosmetic item. That's fine, but requiring someone to subject themselves to an environment of abuse and harassment, especially from one's own server, is contradictory to the inclusiveness you have touted with GW2. Asking a person to play a game mode they don't like in order to get the weapon skin is fine. Asking them to suffer days of verbal abuse is not.

2. World vs. World is not social. At one point in the history of the game, there was a social aspect to WvW that made it enjoyable, even under the system that was in place. Things have spiraled downward over the years (especially after allowing f2p accounts into WvW). Most of my experience recently is WvW in regards to chat is primarily flatlined. The conversation is rarely pleasant for more than a few minutes before someone starts insulting the commanders, or just generally trying to ruin the mood. People who play primarily PvE that have issues with the problems in point 1, are not necessarily going to be motivated to jump into WvW when they don't know anyone.

The WvW changes you proposed months ago, in my opinion, are the solution to these issues.

You can't filter all the trolls that shows up in WvW and PvP, that much has been demonstrated quite clearly, but one area that you do have control over should be used to its full potential: Guilds.

When people join a guild in game, it is, by large majority, through the PvE environment (yes, there are exceptions). They get to know the guild members, make solid friendships, learn to deal with members who have different viewpoints, etc. Guild missions, events, and so on create a buffer that emboldens people. When people are with their friends, they tend to be more motivated. Take on a champ solo? Maybe, but if they have 5 of their guild friends there with them to back them up if it goes badly, they're going to go for it and even if they get destroyed, the mood of the situation will be a lot better (assuming the guildmates present are decent people also). What might be humiliating in one instance, can be a point of fun and learning in another. This psychology is played out daily in real life. People, for the most part, like doing things with their friends.

But... if you want a Gift of Battle currently, you have to play with people you don't know (you may even be playing against your own guild).

Making guilds matter in WvW, in my opinion, would make obtaining the Gift of Battle less of a monolithic challenge for many people. I would love to see it happen. I'm fine obtaining it as things currently are, but I'd love to play with everyone in my guild being on the same team. If anything, it would take some of the boredom out of it. I love running with a zerg, but it gets monotonous after a while.

I can't speak for the rest of the "filthy casuals" out there, but for me personally, these changes would not only make obtaining the Gift of Battle less mind-numbing, but would actually make WvW worth playing just to have fun or obtain other goals like backpacks, skins, etc.

So, seriously. Please get some focus on the proposed changes. WvW is long overdue for it's own expansion.

I'm a filthy casual and I can get a Gift of Battle every couple months just mucking around in EOTM. I don't see an issue. I'll take that "grind" over doing 300+ hearts any day, any time!

And we already have an active thread about this exact topic.

To be fair, the other thread has fallen half-way down page 2. Although, the search function should still find it.

If they revert back from the reward track, gifts of battle should require a new currency only available in WvW. The issue with badges of honor is that you can acquire badges without even stepping into WvW.

That said, there are plenty of WvW dailies that don’t require interaction with enemies for those that are opposed to PvP.

Whether or not Anet snuck the GoB change in is up to debate. Many players were aware that it was going to happen in advance.

Has it actually hindered anyone from getting their legendary?

No really, I am curious if anyone spent like 1500 gold, got to the WvW stage and saw that they had to play WvW for like... a couple of days... and that's when they just said "fuck it aint doing this shit I am throwing away my precursor this isnt worth it I'm not making this legendary anymore" and just gave up on it.

Anyone care to step forward?

This is the most dramatic description of WvW that I've ever seen.

I've seen more toxicity in a T1 fractal than I've seen in an alpine borderland.

They were sneaky about making the change, but I understand the reasoning - they don't want people to make progress on two long-term goals at the same time. (earning badges for GoB, while also progressing on a reward track)

@kurfu.5623 said:They were sneaky about making the change, but I understand the reasoning - they don't want people to make progress on two long-term goals at the same time. (earning badges for GoB, while also progressing on a reward track)

Players had about two months to prepare for it.

Your description of WvW is overboard to the extreme.I spent an hour in DBL today just capping camps and sentries on an outnumbered map. I grabbed my Tower daily and generally just eff'ed about. Used the candy corn gobbler a booster and some decent food, got a few bars of progress and helped my server with a little PPT.This is one of the most profitable ways to play the mode. Good reward track progress, good pips, a few bags from the mobs and a couple duels. It's only slightly less rewarding than being in a big zerg. It's not really that much different than farming LS3 currencies.

In that hour I came across exactly 8 opposing players. Not a single one said anything or did anything disrespectful. The only salt in Team chat was about the lack of people covering EBG. Got ganked once, got outplayed once, got a couple bags.All this on a weak experimental build, messing with traits and skills as I went from camp to camp.

I do this every few days. It's how I play the mode. It's not usual in the slightest. It's avergae off hours WvW play and environment.

Your claims about the environment in WvW are not borne out by the reality.This overblown description of the environment weakens a tired argument that gets posted every week.

@kurfu.5623 said:They were sneaky about making the change, but I understand the reasoning - they don't want people to make progress on two long-term goals at the same time. (earning badges for GoB, while also progressing on a reward track)

Having an NPC and a reward track, as you pointed out, does not make sense, yes. I was more noting the history of where it is now. I'm fine with the reward track, but the proposed WvW changes would simply make it a lot more attractive.

Well structured case you have here, something I could get behind

@"Khaos.6810" said:Well structured case you have here, something I could get behind

It's not that well structured, but thanks. :)I mostly just want to see the changes proposed put through. I think WvW could get a much wider audience with the things they want to do, beyond people just grabbing a Gift of Battle.

I saw it once again last night where someone linked the Gift of Battle and then said (towards the squad leader) "Thanks for leading. have a good night" and then left. People come in, do their time, and then leave. Or they tag a dolyak once in a while and then sit in a keep while they do work in RL.The GoB is just an example though. There are probably a number of casual PvE players who perhaps don't know about the Obsidian weapon collection, or other items beyond the huge back pieces that people have on that others see in hubs.

Setting up matches using alliances and guilds would change things for the better, in my opinion.

Put gift of battle for laurels 5 is a good price ore better make sold for 5g by a vendor they shouldnt force players into playing wvw thats horrific (irony) seriusly gob is not meant to be in pve only wvw for first its called gift of battle not gift of buy. Anet wants encourage ppl to play wvw by doing this they rise that crowd a bit. Third badges was gainef from anchie chests in a large quantity

Have no idea what you are talking about. I am strictly a PvE player. Have not played WvW since 2015. I needed the gift and Speced a firabrand and entered WvW. I barely knew what to do with the firebrand (although you pick up quick), i knew nothing about anyone on my server community, yet i had fun, i could easily ignore any toxicity (which is pretty mild since the criticisms is rarely personal), had fun, got some kills and finished 3/4 of the reward track in two days. You just have to make a bit of effort to join the voip and follow what is being said and you are done in no time. I get how it might be annoying for some but anyone thinking that it is a hindrance in making their legendary is just doing it wrong.

The Gift of Battle is honestly the easiest part of legendary weapons. For most of the time there's hardly anything going on for the home maps that you can run around maintaining T6 participation with absolutely zero pvp for hours. You can even just use a build designed around running away and only killing npcs too, especially given most roamers have friends so you wouldn't really want to 1v1 anyone as it quickly becomes a 1v3+.

While yes, people do rage, trash talk, etc, it is mostly done on one of the maps which you do not have to be on for the reward track or even pips. When you understand how the WvW reward system works you can actually be mostly afk for a few hours and get your Gift of Battle with no effort at all.

These issues are also not because WvW "isn't" guild focused, these are all simply the nature of open world pvp content, and being in a guild when it's guild focused doesn't solve the problem while creating problems for those not in a guild or want to be involved in a large group. As well as the fact that guild mates are not synonymous with being friends.

I'm not even really a WvWer, I mostly prefer PvE and S-PvP.

If you start GoB at the very start, you'll have it easily by the time you've made the legendary...well..you know what I mean

I agree with your conclusion (Anet - step up the pace on the alliance changes) but I don't understand your argument. Guilds already matter in WvW. Guilds already can play in WvW so I'm not sure what you're saying or missing. I get your "abuse" points but from what I understand the same thing (or worse) happens in fractals and raids. If you like playing with your guildies (and therefore not suffer the "abuse"?), nothing prevents you from doing that right now.

You can make a dozen ascended weapons for the price of one legendary weapon, without having to play wvw.

I’ve WvW’d some and no one has said a word to me. If they ever did I’d block them after the first message and they can talk salt to themselves to their heart’s content while I go on my way.

/shrug. Block is there. Use it.

WvW is social and with alliances coming soon even more so. Heck you can even finish reward tracks soloing camps or repairing walls at smc. The gift of battle is a non issue.

I am a full pve player from 5 years. I hate pvp matches, I literally despise them(and I really want The Ascension but the achievements are so long...). I love raids, fractals meta's and sometimes I even enjoy doing maps.I started crafting Aurora and then came a moment for a Gift of Battle. I really did NOT want to get into WvW as I never stepped my foot in there before.

I went in and got killed going alone, so I joined commander as I had no idea what any term in WvW meant and what am I supposed to even do. Commander stood before us from time to time and wrote us a playful speech how we're fighting for honor of our lands etc. That was pretty cool I must say.I tried to glide after my 15 people group and I fell down like a lemming and killed myself. Happily someone nice saw it and explained to me there are points I need to spend separately in WvW to get gliding and other skills there (I was suprised because I have gliding in PVE for like 2 years... Never expected to fall down, so used to having it :P).I build and used catapults, carried supplies, became a big golem, won a battle for the castle, towers and camps and it was all suprisingly fun even when I was dying.

Tbh I personally had fun while fighting in groups like 2-10 people. More than that made my screen freeze and even if that wasn't the case all AOEs around me with me being melee (probably with not too good wvw build) made it impossible for me to play in larger groups.

But honestly I never was into WvW before. But when I was "forced" to go there I had some fun and finally used my birthday booster and xp booster for something (like 90 of these in my bank) and I got the gift of battle in around 6-7 hours total I think. Considering how much time PVE achievements took me it was really quick and pleasant and now I sometimes go back there for dailies (the one with getting 40 + badges or sth in Ember Bay omg.... so boring. Chalice of Tears were actually fun even if I spend there at least 2-3 hours, but these badges even with guide.... ).I went from WvW hater to someone who sometimes enjoys going in there with no goal in mind at all.

The only thing I agree with might be that people hating on commanders and other people is a problem. But imo it's a big problem in raids and pvp too.Also the annoying thing is having to run to your squad after you die, sometimes across the whole map, but this one cannot be balanced without making wvw a mess.

Dear Anet: Keep the gift of battle the same. Oh... and after repeating the track 10 times, allow a vendor swap of GoB with the Gift of exploration. Because doing GoB 10 times is still less than one GoE.

K thnx.

@Vash.2386 said:Wow such a dramatic post. Leave the GoB as it is.

Fractals and raids are way more toxic than wvw has ever been.

They're not asking for the GoB to be changed, they're asking for ANet to hurry up and put in the changes they've talked about so players can make it a more social environment. (At least, that's what I get from it.)

Also, as someone that HATES WvW and can't seem to make decent progress on the GoB for the Bolt I'm trying to create... I reluctantly say that the reward track is the right way to go... the FIRST TIME. If someone clears the whole track and still doesn't enjoy WvW, then having a different way to get the second+ GoBs might not be a bad idea.

You make a legendary knowing you need GoB, you can easily just do WvW dailies in-between map completion, dungeons, farming mats...