Maybe Anet Shouldn't Buff Ele and Rev — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Maybe Anet Shouldn't Buff Ele and Rev

Poelala.2830Poelala.2830 Member ✭✭✭

When I look at the main Elementalist builds and the main Revenant build, I see builds that require such skill, finesse, and comfort to play to skill cap. When players succeed in playing this, they are ALWAYS considered very skillful (with exception to menders weavers) in their ability to chain skill combos to maximize their puny damage, and time their evades optimally to stay alive. When I look at all other meta builds, complaints of spam is always prevalent. Holosmith? Spams aoe stability/knockdown/damage. Scourge? Spams aoe condi and boon rip. Firebrand? Spams defensives and heals. Mirage? Spams every single thing that a class can have. Spellbreaker? Spams full counter and rousing resilience and rampage. Maybe the solution isn't to overly buff classes that requires skill and finesse, but maybe the solution is to nerf the classes that do not. I do not want to play a class that is overly weak, sure, but I do not want to play a class that can execute one combo and one shot my opponent, or be immortal or a node, or overtake the node with my fields. Ele and Rev still have glaring weaknesses. Out of the meta classes I mentioned, the only one with a glaring weakness is Scourge. Maybe that's the problem.

Comments

  • BeLZedaR.4790BeLZedaR.4790 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeah you got it correct. PoF introduced mostly faceroll/spammy oriented specs that are highly tuned.
    I think that Anet should set themselves the goal of eventually having a pass on all of the PoF specs one by one, to design them to have counterplay, and punish misusing abilities more. This while still putting them on a high enough powerlevel so that when played well they’re very effective.

    Unyielding Legend
    Make condi rev great again!
    Say no to braindead high reward builds

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    pzzzZZzzzzap! one.... shot..... AA .....ele .....needs .....more.... buff pzzzz.. talking in robot voice to make my point ..pzzzzzz

    Winter Nerf is coming!

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭

    arcane blast and arcane fury need to be reverted.

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • Huskyboy.1053Huskyboy.1053 Member ✭✭✭

    @Razor.6392 said:
    arcane blast and arcane fury need to be reverted.

    The Arcane Blast nerf was so random

  • Abelisk.4527Abelisk.4527 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Fury needs to go back to Arcane.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2018

    Rev dealing 9k with sword offhand abilities and 2.5k autos is a tremendous meme. It's just a thief but with a face-tank heal and the ability to reset its resource pool. Meta weaver Ele is PvE-rotation tier gameplay; it's about on par as playing against a bot due to how predictable it is (predictable despite still being mildly effective for no reason other than it chains perfect damage negation, self heals and stacks stability much like any other build in the game). Both classes do exactly the same thing as every other class to a certain degree: they play passive and hop from cooldown to cooldown until they see a player without defensive CDs; then they just keyboard faceroll. This is the nature of GW2 PvP combat: it's basically just a rhythm party game.

    Weaver ele and rev aren't underpowered; they're wholly unfair and braindead to use, but they just don't consistently compete because other classes do the same gimmicks only on faster cycles and/or while managing to be even more invulnerable while executing them. If you ever want a mildly balanced GW2 PvP experience, your only real choice is something like staff ele 1v1s with a ban on arcane blast and wave.

  • LazySummer.2568LazySummer.2568 Member ✭✭✭

    @Swagg.9236 said:
    Rev dealing 9k with sword offhand abilities and 2.5k autos is a tremendous meme. It's just a thief but with a face-tank heal and the ability to reset its resource pool. Meta weaver Ele is PvE-rotation tier gameplay; it's about on par as playing against a bot due to how predictable it is (predictable despite still being mildly effective for no reason other than it chains perfect damage negation, self heals and stacks stability much like any other build in the game). Both classes do exactly the same thing as every other class to a certain degree: they play passive and hop from cooldown to cooldown until they see a player without defensive CDs; then they just keyboard faceroll. This is the nature of GW2 PvP combat: it's basically just a rhythm party game.

    Weaver ele and rev aren't underpowered; they're wholly unfair and braindead to use, but they just don't consistently compete because other classes do the same gimmicks only on faster cycles and/or while managing to be even more invulnerable while executing them. If you ever want a mildly balanced GW2 PvP experience, your only real choice is something like staff ele 1v1s with a ban on arcane blast and wave.

    The real nonbraindead spec is naked, no traits, full kit engi

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2018

    @LazySummer.2568 said:

    @Swagg.9236 said:
    Rev dealing 9k with sword offhand abilities and 2.5k autos is a tremendous meme. It's just a thief but with a face-tank heal and the ability to reset its resource pool. Meta weaver Ele is PvE-rotation tier gameplay; it's about on par as playing against a bot due to how predictable it is (predictable despite still being mildly effective for no reason other than it chains perfect damage negation, self heals and stacks stability much like any other build in the game). Both classes do exactly the same thing as every other class to a certain degree: they play passive and hop from cooldown to cooldown until they see a player without defensive CDs; then they just keyboard faceroll. This is the nature of GW2 PvP combat: it's basically just a rhythm party game.

    Weaver ele and rev aren't underpowered; they're wholly unfair and braindead to use, but they just don't consistently compete because other classes do the same gimmicks only on faster cycles and/or while managing to be even more invulnerable while executing them. If you ever want a mildly balanced GW2 PvP experience, your only real choice is something like staff ele 1v1s with a ban on arcane blast and wave.

    The real nonbraindead spec is naked, no traits, full kit engi

    I say naked, no trait, full signet, nothing/Dagger Ele!

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagg.9236 said:
    Rev dealing 9k with sword offhand abilities and 2.5k autos is a tremendous meme. It's just a thief but with a face-tank heal and the ability to reset its resource pool. Meta weaver Ele is PvE-rotation tier gameplay; it's about on par as playing against a bot due to how predictable it is (predictable despite still being mildly effective for no reason other than it chains perfect damage negation, self heals and stacks stability much like any other build in the game). Both classes do exactly the same thing as every other class to a certain degree: they play passive and hop from cooldown to cooldown until they see a player without defensive CDs; then they just keyboard faceroll. This is the nature of GW2 PvP combat: it's basically just a rhythm party game.

    Weaver ele and rev aren't underpowered; they're wholly unfair and braindead to use, but they just don't consistently compete because other classes do the same gimmicks only on faster cycles and/or while managing to be even more invulnerable while executing them. If you ever want a mildly balanced GW2 PvP experience, your only real choice is something like staff ele 1v1s with a ban on arcane blast and wave.

    Was this sarcasm? It started sounding serious but the end... like... I dunno...

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    Honestly the real issue is that GW2 PvP is hard to get into because so much is happening behind the scenes with every build having 15-30+ passives which can and do win games due to how overpowered many of them are. To make up for this obfuscation and unnecessarily high amount of what-trait-does-what knowledge required to PvP, Anet keeps adding builds that have insanely low mechanical skill requirements. This makes PvP more accessible in a sort of hackneyed way, as people can effectively get away with being clueless about all the background noise by simply playing a build that lets them mindlessly spam.

    I think this has been stated before, but if Anet ever wants this game to have Esports come back they need to re-evaluate how much is happening under the hood.

    1. Traits are too impactful. Not just passive anti death traits, but things like passive unblockability and passive CC are just dumb. These don't need a nerf - they should really just not exist period.
    2. Too many powerful defensive passives in this game ( Like stability ) have absolutely no animation whatsoever.
    3. Too much of the damage as a result of passives is insant-cast no-animation and thus completely unavoidable 90% of the time.
    4. Too many high damage abilities in general have little to no animation or tell

    Look at Revenant and most of the traits suck and most of the heavy hitters ( Pretty much every skill except sword 4 ) have cast times and obvious animations. Even the defense skills have wind up times. So the dirty little secret of GW2 balance is that Rev is balanced...and everything else is busted.

    Maybe I'm not fully understanding you, but it strikes me that PvP combat should not rely overmuch on reacting to big tells. It's too slow. PvP is more about anticipating your enemy and covering your own vulnerabilities. When you've played enough (and I certainly haven't in this game!), you know what a skilled player of X class/build should do before they do it, so you're ready to capitalize on any mistakes they might make. That seems like it should be a lot faster-paced than watching for tells and reacting (not that we shouldn't have some of that).

    Or maybe I'm just crazy and despite all the balance flaws I just enjoy the ridiculously fast pace of GW2 combat when things get hectic! I'd hate to see it slowed down.

  • @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    Honestly the real issue is that GW2 PvP is hard to get into because so much is happening behind the scenes with every build having 15-30+ passives which can and do win games due to how overpowered many of them are. To make up for this obfuscation and unnecessarily high amount of what-trait-does-what knowledge required to PvP, Anet keeps adding builds that have insanely low mechanical skill requirements. This makes PvP more accessible in a sort of hackneyed way, as people can effectively get away with being clueless about all the background noise by simply playing a build that lets them mindlessly spam.

    I think this has been stated before, but if Anet ever wants this game to have Esports come back they need to re-evaluate how much is happening under the hood.

    1. Traits are too impactful. Not just passive anti death traits, but things like passive unblockability and passive CC are just dumb. These don't need a nerf - they should really just not exist period.
    2. Too many powerful defensive passives in this game ( Like stability ) have absolutely no animation whatsoever.
    3. Too much of the damage as a result of passives is insant-cast no-animation and thus completely unavoidable 90% of the time.
    4. Too many high damage abilities in general have little to no animation or tell

    Look at Revenant and most of the traits suck and most of the heavy hitters ( Pretty much every skill except sword 4 ) have cast times and obvious animations. Even the defense skills have wind up times. So the dirty little secret of GW2 balance is that Rev is balanced...and everything else is busted.

    Maybe I'm not fully understanding you, but it strikes me that PvP combat should not rely overmuch on reacting to big tells. It's too slow. PvP is more about anticipating your enemy and covering your own vulnerabilities. When you've played enough (and I certainly haven't in this game!), you know what a skilled player of X class/build should do before they do it, so you're ready to capitalize on any mistakes they might make. That seems like it should be a lot faster-paced than watching for tells and reacting (not that we shouldn't have some of that).

    Or maybe I'm just crazy and despite all the balance flaws I just enjoy the ridiculously fast pace of GW2 combat when things get hectic! I'd hate to see it slowed down.

    It depends on the situation. Some things you can anticipate, others you can play mind games, other you have to react to it. If you watch a 1v1 duel on a note between 2 high skill spellbreakers, for example, half the time they spend with weapons stowed. If you see a core guard coming towards you, you know what's coming, but if you dodge beforehand he's just going to wait it out. So you have to wait for him to raise the hammer above his head and THEN dodge.

    Likewise against a mirage. You can't anticipate his stealth combo, but you know what's coming, so you count 1, 2, 2 and a half and dodge, or LoS, or run away from where he's most probably going to attack, or pop some kind of invulnerability (channelled blocks are king in this situation for example). Again vs a condimirage, when they do Axe 3, you can't really anticipate it, but the tell is HUGE and the animation is quite long, so you try to evade it as soon as they do it. Axe 2? Same stuff, you may even interrupt the cast if you can.

    11 stacks of confusion on you along with burn and torment? Don't panic and spamclick everything, that's what's killing y'all in 1 second. If you can't instacleanse, disengage, wait confusion to run out (which is rather quick because almost no one runs expertise) and react afterwards.

  • Poelala.2830Poelala.2830 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gwaihir.1745 said:
    So did you just tie ele into your post because its your main and you know everyone supports revs getting buffed? The whole 'these classes r op buff my main' logic has never worked.

    Did you... read the TITLE? It said maybe ele SHOULDN'T get buffed. God, you're dense. Also, ele isn't my main anymore.

  • jsp.6912jsp.6912 Member ✭✭

    rev and ele don't need a buff other class just need nerf

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @Swagg.9236 said:
    Rev dealing 9k with sword offhand abilities and 2.5k autos is a tremendous meme. It's just a thief but with a face-tank heal and the ability to reset its resource pool. Meta weaver Ele is PvE-rotation tier gameplay; it's about on par as playing against a bot due to how predictable it is (predictable despite still being mildly effective for no reason other than it chains perfect damage negation, self heals and stacks stability much like any other build in the game). Both classes do exactly the same thing as every other class to a certain degree: they play passive and hop from cooldown to cooldown until they see a player without defensive CDs; then they just keyboard faceroll. This is the nature of GW2 PvP combat: it's basically just a rhythm party game.

    Weaver ele and rev aren't underpowered; they're wholly unfair and braindead to use, but they just don't consistently compete because other classes do the same gimmicks only on faster cycles and/or while managing to be even more invulnerable while executing them. If you ever want a mildly balanced GW2 PvP experience, your only real choice is something like staff ele 1v1s with a ban on arcane blast and wave.

    Was this sarcasm? It started sounding serious but the end... like... I dunno...

    You're just far too gone.

  • Gwaihir.1745Gwaihir.1745 Member ✭✭✭

    @Poelala.2830 said:

    @Gwaihir.1745 said:
    So did you just tie ele into your post because its your main and you know everyone supports revs getting buffed? The whole 'these classes r op buff my main' logic has never worked.

    Did you... read the TITLE? It said maybe ele SHOULDN'T get buffed. God, you're dense. Also, ele isn't my main anymore.

    Literally. Nerfing everyone else is by definition a buff to ele? The literal most obvious reverse advocate post.

    Shield of Wrath: Reduced the cooldown of this skill from 36 seconds to 35 seconds.

    Quality balance changes^TM

  • Poelala.2830Poelala.2830 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gwaihir.1745 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:

    @Gwaihir.1745 said:
    So did you just tie ele into your post because its your main and you know everyone supports revs getting buffed? The whole 'these classes r op buff my main' logic has never worked.

    Did you... read the TITLE? It said maybe ele SHOULDN'T get buffed. God, you're dense. Also, ele isn't my main anymore.

    Literally. Nerfing everyone else is by definition a buff to ele? The literal most obvious reverse advocate post.

    No... a buff to ele is ‘by definition’ changing it directly to make it stronger. You don’t say rev got nerfed when it got buffed, but Mesmer got buffed more.

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