This is OUT OF POCKET!!

Anyone from the forums should recognize me by now and know that before the expan dropped, I was a firm supporter of damage condis because at that point I considered it a l2p issue and people just not wanting to account for condi (should have already been doing that in the first place).

Now at this point I would be brain dead to continue defending it. Condi itself is not the issue, how its being applied now is.

The new specs are not just here to add to "build diversity" they are the new specs and not running them means that youre intentionally putting yourself at a huge disadvantage

Every necros, thief, guard, ranger, every build I had is now damn near obsolete literally

Builds that I could easily take 3-4 top stats with are now like puppies compared to the new specs. There was hope with my burn guard (he had a power gs build that was amazing, but not even that can compete) and the more used to people become with the new specs the harder its getting to use him. I can cleanse up to 16 condis off my guard. All it takes is one scourge to pop up and instead of trying to deal damage, I'm putting 90% of my time into evades, trying to heal and cleanse and get my blocks up. 9/10 after ive burned all my heals, all of my cleanses, all of my blocks, is still get bombed with condi that seems to come our of no where and at that point my health drops straight to being downed.

That's way too much, core builds are a joke, hot builds are damn near laughable, just wtf?

Build diversity just went right out the window because now we have 0 options, but to buy the expan and use the new specs. If anything pof is x10 as bad as hot was cause at least with hot, imo, (when I say this I speak specifically for my builds) my core builds could still either compete or completely outshine hot builds.

Now out of 12+ builds from 5 professions, only 1 is worth much and his values slowly fading.

Mesmers were already tough to deal with, but manageable, now when I see a mesmer I question whether or not I even want to try anymore. Don't get me started on the list of whats wrong with mesmers. High learning curve, yeah I get it, but you have to look at the reality that mesmers are capable of just too damn much

(I will say gj on hollow smith, its nice seeing them and not thinking imma get 1 shot)

Dead Eye, this spec is still cancer, 3k hits from a far and by the time you get to them theyre gone, poof, just to show up further away hitting you even more

I've already seen some manage to place themselves in spots where melee professions cant reach them, idk about any of you, but getting hit for 3k+ a bullet from long range also from someone I cant touch doesn't sit well with me. A d/p thief can catch them sure, but besides that and a burn guard, theyre going to terrorize you if they know what theyre doing.

A good bit of my friends have already moved on from GW, I'm keep thinking to myself that it can only get better, but after seeing what we got with pof, it makes me wonder whats next and if that will be even worst.

I'm sorry, but I'm starting not to see myself sticking around too much longer because as of rn, pvp is nothing less of utter h.e.l.l. and frustration.

Seriously? Almost all of the PoF elites are mediocre compared to HoT. Spellbreaker is the only PoF elite that looks competitive against the HoT elites.

@Crinn.7864 said:Seriously? Almost all of the PoF elites are mediocre compared to HoT. Spellbreaker is the only PoF elite that looks competitive against the HoT elites.

Not for me, all of my ss builds have been getting dumped on by just about every pof build

For instance (Ik imma get crucified for saying it, but I had a power and condi build for every profession)

Builds that would easily top 500k all the way to almost 700k+ in damage (both power and condi builds) are now utterly useless

My necros mmr build...useless

My condi thief...useless

Power guard...mediocre at best

Burn guard, he can kill and down....that's about it....he dies way too fast even with all the cleanses he has. And tbh hes not a burn guard hes hybrid. That build used to obliterate in pvp, now i struggle more than ever just to keep him alive

Maybe I'm just playing against people who know how to get the most of out of their builds already

But my hybrid guard is literally the last character i have that can compete not using anything from pof

So what you're saying is, condition builds are fine, until they aren't fine, when it affects you?

The damage has been pretty comparable to HoT.

Primary thing is that a few builds are overperforming, and a few are underperforming. The same builds that were overperforming before the expac are still overperforming.

@kKagari.6804 said:So what you're saying is, condition builds are fine, until they aren't fine, when it affects you?

Thats exactly what he's saying.

A 700k damage build sounds like a low damage aoe build with high sustain. if you have good damage and timing you will be waiting on people to spawn or traveling between pts and have lowerer damage than the person that is in an endless 1v1 the whole match.

Wait...what.. You think Mesmer has high condi cleanse?

@SlimChance.6593 said:Wait...what.. You think Mesmer has high condi cleanse?

It does if you trait and build for it but you'll end up with a sloppy trait and utility set up lmao... But OP is sorta right.... Condition builds were manageable before PoF but atm it's a little too high. Burn guards dropping 27-35 stacks of burn on the first burst and maintaining an easy 18 on the downs. Actually come to think of it, that's the only build I'm finding unfair atm. Maybe Scourge corruption but that's always been a necro sorta thing, maybe I'm not liking thier "3 turrets" mechanic.

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@SlimChance.6593 said:Wait...what.. You think Mesmer has high condi cleanse?

Firebrands don't have a lot of cover conditions, the problem with the way tomes work is that they tend to want to unload it all in one go, so as to not sit around and do nothing. Since the burns all apply in a short duration you can cleanse 16 stacks and only take the tick once. It still hurts, but so does eating an Arcing Slice.

@kKagari.6804 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@SlimChance.6593 said:Wait...what.. You think Mesmer has high condi cleanse?

If you say so.... I don't think you fully understand what I wrote or what I'm implying by maintaining 18 stacks of burn. You can cleanse the first burst sure, but there's another 15+ stacks of burn about to be re-applied and even if you cleanse that I can maintain 8 stacks of burn just through Auto Attacks before dropping the burst again. I hope your condition removals are off CD every few seconds.

theyll get toned down eventually. I agree that condi builds are a little ridiculous due to the limited ability to tailor you build to fight them completely, as compared to say gw1 or something. But since everyone has this disadvantage its sorta an even playing field. meta changes, and it won't always suit your preferences.

I find PoF builds much easier to manage than HoT. HoT specs on release (and for a long time) remained as an extreme example of power creep in every aspect. I wonder what core builds you managed to get to work because with the exception of Ele, all of the HoT specs were VASTLY superior compared to core ones, and I say ele because FA remained a contender vs tempest ONLY dps wise in pvp (and dps builds used to be quite bad for ele at that time).

Some of the PoF specs could use some tweaks so they aren't as oppressive, but to say they are stronger than HoT? Oh boy. It looks like you have forgot about release DH that had to be hotfixed, daredevil as a whole, chrono before the 100 nerfs, diamond skin OG tempest, immortal scrapper with prenerf adaptive armor and 10s cd celestial avatar immortal ranger with the 20k damage bristleback spike burst.

Further reminder that HoT specs only became finally "balanced" as a whole very recently in the last 1-2 balance patches. They were allowed free reign over core specs for almost 2 years(!!!)

What I understand from your bestseller , If you don't kill us all being number one having all of the top icons with a burn guard or a condi thief you frighten Anet that you will leave the game ? Oooo , that scary mate , please DONT !!! What do you expect that your guardian will be the only OP class forever ? And whен is not the strongest one that mean the game is bad ? Is that joke , or you take some opium ?

@Faux Play.6104 said:A 700k damage build sounds like a low damage aoe build with high sustain. if you have good damage and timing you will be waiting on people to spawn or traveling between pts and have lowerer damage than the person that is in an endless 1v1 the whole match.

Hey, thanks for pointing that out. I often have games where I feel like I've really done well and put out some good burst damage and even top stat damage (or not but still something like 24% of the team's damage). But the absolute numbers will be something like 250k-300k. Makes me think I must have just gotten lucky and wasn't really outputting as much damage as I thought.

But your statement makes sense. The damage is actually lower at the end of the match because we're actually bursting guys down and stomping them instead of letting them sustain through.

At least you are not an engineer that is pretty much shat on for years. We get a new Holo, and not only condi being almost completely omitted here, but it still is considered garbage comparing to pretty much every other build, and that's on top of those build making prior Engi specs not viable even situationally. Trying to find a pug to do fractals/raids as an Engi is difficult, as not all of us can be lucky enough to have a static group that will take us. At least those are my experiences playing Engi (bummer it's only class I enjoy playing :/ ). Once again, those are my feelings and experiences as Engi, and may differ from other people, they aren't facts. Cheers.

@Vladish.3940 said:At least you are not an engineer that is pretty much kitten on for years. We get a new Holo, and not only condi being almost completely omitted here, but it still is considered garbage comparing to pretty much every other build, and that's on top of those build making prior Engi specs not viable even situationally. Trying to find a pug to do fractals/raids as an Engi is difficult, as not all of us can be lucky enough to have a static group that will take us. At least those are my experiences playing Engi (bummer it's only class I enjoy playing :/ ). Once again, those are my feelings and experiences as Engi, and may differ from other people, they aren't facts. Cheers.

Isn't core Condi engineer good in pve?

It was ok to my knowledge. I have only tried it for few weeks myself but never got to experience group-based things myself, because in LFG, whenever there was any other class looking for a spot, pugs would take them over Engi (and not just me, my friends who play the class experienced that too). I did gave up looking for it after 2-3 weeks though regardless, because I realized playing the kit spec is too stressful on my wrists (permanent disability), so I just played story as garbage bin turret build until Holo. My friends said though they continued having a hard time finding raid pugs (They did eventually now and then, but rarely).

Little out of topic - I was hoping Holo may change that, as it is simpler on rotations than kit build, and thus less stressful on my injuries, but keep hearing more and more how it is bad comparing to the crazy numbers other classes can put out. I guess I am bound to story mode forever, lol.

Players like you supported this type of combat so they went along with it. Too late to change, enjoy the cancer.

@Crinn.7864 said:Seriously? Almost all of the PoF elites are mediocre compared to HoT. Spellbreaker is the only PoF elite that looks competitive against the HoT elites.

Definitely you are wrong