Counterpoint: This double XP weekend was not so great — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Counterpoint: This double XP weekend was not so great

Adzekul.3104Adzekul.3104 Member ✭✭
edited June 13, 2018 in WvW

This post will probably be against the grain of community sentiment for the double xp WvW event, but I am going to try to make my points regardless of whatever opposing views follow in this thread.

1) The no-downstate was a very significant nerf to loot quantity. So many people tag downed players in zerg/blob/group fights. To remove it from the mechanics ended up removing one of the very big, very fun reasons to play WvW: lootbags. Lootbags are only rarely high quality, but they are very useful "low quality" stuff like crafting mats and silk and (god forbid) mithril ... way too much mithril ... unless you want weapons via Grandmaster Weaponsmith Marks, or third-generation legendary weapons.

2) In principle the Magic Find boost should have counter-balanced the point above, but I found it was insufficient. I have been running around for the duration with minimum 400% MF and have not seen one single exotic drop, and no ascended drops (outside the ubiquitous Bloodstone Dust/Dragonite Ore/Empyreal Fragments). And so the counterbalance to the reduction in loot quantity was not so very effective. Of course, there is always someone who gets ascended loot and who can "prove" me wrong, except that it will never be proof. Only perception. Just like my perception.

3) The no-downstate mechanic favours the experienced and active PvP sub-population of WvW. Those with Gold+ PvP rank (or perhaps Platinum+). Those capable of 1v2 or 1v3 play. WvW has always been the super-casual game mode that anyone and everyone can play, with their un-optimized builds/gear/experience (ask Mighty Teapot about how many times he sees people running around in greens, or non-lvl-80). people like me, who avoid the PvP game mode because we are too slow or too bad or too casual or too disinclined to optimize and are the ones who do not enjoy the lack of down-state. Whether this makes a majority or minority is unknown to me. Maybe people want to purify the WvW population of the casuals. But I posit that this would be a dangerous move; the game mode needs more people, not less.

And so I have found myself doing non-WvW stuff for a chunk of this week. I will jump right back in after the weekly reset, of course, but wanted to give my respectful 2 cents while I wait out the end of the event.

In the end, I am of the feeling that the event was rather divisive, with strong feelings for and strong against. Such a division would not be a healthy long-term result for the WvW game mode, and is workable only for short-term tests.

<1

Comments

  • I was 100% against it. Then after having to play wvw for my guild, I am still against it. I would change my mind if we had hp to compensate for the lack of downed state. The burst is too much to have skilled pitted against not so skilled & its a huge turnoff. Its incredibly hard to learn counters when poof you enemy becomes visible just before you die.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I don’t see how #3 is a bad thing. Those that are skillful should have an advantage as it’s a competitive game mode. Handicapping them, because some others don’t want to make the effort to get better, is bad.

    I'd actually counter-point and say the opposite... The only way that no down-state benefits experienced players over less experienced ones is when numbers are equal or very close.
    With down-state, a couple of good players can wipe groups twice or even 3 times as large as them, by focusing damage and using rally to recuperate the damage taken from the higher volume of attacks. Without down-state and rally, larger numbers will always win.
    And WvW already has a problem with skewed numbers of players, so no down-state would just work to exacerbate that issue.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭

    @alphafert.6730 said:
    I was 100% against it. Then after having to play wvw for my guild, I am still against it. I would change my mind if we had hp to compensate for the lack of downed state. The burst is too much to have skilled pitted against not so skilled & its a huge turnoff. Its incredibly hard to learn counters when poof you enemy becomes visible just before you die.

    This is a learn to play for sure. Strats are required, which means tweaking your build/playstyle. Down state in WvW is a crutch (Like a thief's SR for example). Whether you had more HP or not, if you lose chances are you still would. If you need a sparring partner, look me up (and if you are on NA). Or if you need build help, im sure ppl here would help as well,.

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I don’t see how #3 is a bad thing. Those that are skillful should have an advantage as it’s a competitive game mode. Handicapping them, because some others don’t want to make the effort to get better, is bad.

    I'd actually counter-point and say the opposite... The only way that no down-state benefits experienced players over less experienced ones is when numbers are equal or very close.
    With down-state, a couple of good players can wipe groups twice or even 3 times as large as them, by focusing damage and using rally to recuperate the damage taken from the higher volume of attacks. Without down-state and rally, larger numbers will always win.
    And WvW already has a problem with skewed numbers of players, so no down-state would just work to exacerbate that issue.

    Larger numbers will usually win most fights anyway whether or not there is a down state. Downstate is just a crutch that prolongs fights.

    If a couple of good players can wipe out groups that are 2-3 times larger than then, solely because of their idea ge of down state, then having no down state benefits players like the OP.

  • NuhDah.9812NuhDah.9812 Member ✭✭

    While I like how enjoyable, fast paced and lower risk for me as a thief this no-downstate week is, I don't think down-state in itself is a bad mechanic. In itself it gives more flavor to the gameplay and also purpose to some specs. What I think is broken though is the ress power, or, otherwise, the stomp mechanic is obsolete in the current state of the game.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 13, 2018

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I don’t see how #3 is a bad thing. Those that are skillful should have an advantage as it’s a competitive game mode. Handicapping them, because some others don’t want to make the effort to get better, is bad.

    I'd actually counter-point and say the opposite... The only way that no down-state benefits experienced players over less experienced ones is when numbers are equal or very close.
    With down-state, a couple of good players can wipe groups twice or even 3 times as large as them, by focusing damage and using rally to recuperate the damage taken from the higher volume of attacks. Without down-state and rally, larger numbers will always win.
    And WvW already has a problem with skewed numbers of players, so no down-state would just work to exacerbate that issue.

    Larger numbers will usually win most fights anyway whether or not there is a down state. Downstate is just a crutch that prolongs fights.

    If a couple of good players can wipe out groups that are 2-3 times larger than then, solely because of their idea ge of down state, then having no down state benefits players like the OP.

    You realize that OP is for down state as well, right?
    Down state is a equalizer, and sure it will prolong fights, but you want to fight, or no? Because idk if you noticed WvW is about fighting other players, not just farming objectives.
    No matter how much you squirm and try out mental-gymnastics the problem remains that this game's entire combat system is predicated upon the down-state mechanic, it's balanced with it in mind, and in a large proportion of it, it's only healthy with down state in it.

    I don't know what you mean by their idea, nor how long you've been playing WvW or where, but when i used to play it back when it wasn't a matter of sheer numbers, and broken mechanics, my server used to win fights outnumbered constantly. That was why we were #1, because no matter the numbers we'd win.
    Sure that's long gone, because, well humanity... But it doesn't negate the fact that with down state, in the way the game is designed, skill can beat numbers, without it, and without redesigning combat, it really can't.

    And, anyone that has played other open world PvP games, or other RvR or WvW game will tell you there's nothing more satisfying than turning around a losing battle, and defeating a larger group of enemies.

    Sure that's not GW2 anymore, not since PvP modes have largely become PvE subsidiary loot farms, but there's value in resisting the push towards making it more of a farm, and less of a PvP activity.

    Honestly you see this push constantly... "Defense is too strong, it takes too long to capture objectives", "fights are too long with down state"...
    Well then leave, it's clearly not the content for you! If you choose WvW as your favourite game mode, and you find it boring, you're just bad at picking your entertainment...
    It's like someone saying his hobby is dirt bike racing, but they hate mud, and bikes, and going fast...

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    After 6 years, got my first ever pre cursor to drop on the first day... /shrug.
    Magic find has always been a flaky stat to me, have friends with lower magic find get more exotic type drops than I do. Is there really any difference from adding 100-500% more magic find? again /shrug

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    Maguuma: Ppting through orange swords.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I don’t see how #3 is a bad thing. Those that are skillful should have an advantage as it’s a competitive game mode. Handicapping them, because some others don’t want to make the effort to get better, is bad.

    I'd actually counter-point and say the opposite... The only way that no down-state benefits experienced players over less experienced ones is when numbers are equal or very close.
    With down-state, a couple of good players can wipe groups twice or even 3 times as large as them, by focusing damage and using rally to recuperate the damage taken from the higher volume of attacks. Without down-state and rally, larger numbers will always win.
    And WvW already has a problem with skewed numbers of players, so no down-state would just work to exacerbate that issue.

    Larger numbers will usually win most fights anyway whether or not there is a down state. Downstate is just a crutch that prolongs fights.

    If a couple of good players can wipe out groups that are 2-3 times larger than then, solely because of their idea ge of down state, then having no down state benefits players like the OP.

    You realize that OP is for down state as well, right?

    Read their post again because they’re against.

    Down state is a equalizer, and sure it will prolong fights, but you want to fight, or no? Because idk if you noticed WvW is about fighting other players, not just farming objectives.

    Having no down state makes each fight matter more. It makes them more significant as you have more to lose if you’re careless.

    No matter how much you squirm and try out mental-gymnastics the problem remains that this game's entire combat system is predicated upon the down-state mechanic, it's balanced with it in mind, and in a large proportion of it, it's only healthy with down state in it.

    I disagree that it’s balanced around that.

    I don't know what you mean by their idea, nor how long you've been playing WvW or where, but when i used to play it back when it wasn't a matter of sheer numbers, and broken mechanics, my server used to win fights outnumbered constantly. That was why we were #1, because no matter the numbers we'd win.

    Players in down state don’t contribute much to a fight. If you were winning fights primarily because of down state, it wasn’t because of skill but using down state as a crutch.

    Sure that's long gone, because, well humanity... But it doesn't negate the fact that with down state, in the way the game is designed, skill can beat numbers, without it, and without redesigning combat, it really can't.

    Skill can beat greater numbers with down state. Down state is simply to give players that lost their HP a way to recover.

    And, anyone that has played other open world PvP games, or other RvR or WvW game will tell you there's nothing more satisfying than turning around a losing battle, and defeating a larger group of enemies.

    Which can be done without using down state as a crutch and instead using superior skills/tactics that the other group.

    Sure that's not GW2 anymore, not since PvP modes have largely become PvE subsidiary loot farms, but there's value in resisting the push towards making it more of a farm, and less of a PvP activity.

    PvP/WvW have always had PvE elements. The only thing that has changed is that we got newer maps.

    Honestly you see this push constantly... "Defense is too strong, it takes too long to capture objectives", "fights are too long with down state"...
    Well then leave, it's clearly not the content for you! If you choose WvW as your favourite game mode, and you find it boring, you're just bad at picking your entertainment...

    Let’s say waypoints never got contested. Those that oppose this could argue that it drags on fights. Would this argument be wrong? According to you, complaining about the longer fights just means that this content clearly is not for them and they should leave.

    It's like someone saying his hobby is dirt bike racing, but they hate mud, and bikes, and going fast...

    You’re making the assumption that long fights is all that WvW is about. What’s considered long is debatable as well and I don’t think we even tried to go into exactly how much down state itself extends a fight.

  • Hesacon.8735Hesacon.8735 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I don’t see how #3 is a bad thing. Those that are skillful should have an advantage as it’s a competitive game mode. Handicapping them, because some others don’t want to make the effort to get better, is bad.

    I agree, I've gotten several kills while severely outnumbered that I couldn't have gotten if there was downstate, so that was nice.

    That being said, I definitely prefer downstate being a thing. A lot of traits/skills on every class are reliant on downstate (transfusion, search and rescue). Scrapper gyros and daredevil elite also stomp, so those classes use a dimension of the game. It just feels like losing a unique feature of GW2 that doesn't exist in other games.

    No downstate also makes pinsniping a lot more effective. Downing a pin is a totally legitimate way to play, but you can get it back up with downstate.

  • @Adzekul.3104 said:
    This post will probably be against the grain of community sentiment for the double xp WvW event, but I am going to try to make my points regardless of whatever opposing views follow in this thread.

    1) The no-downstate was a very significant nerf to loot quantity. So many people tag downed players in zerg/blob/group fights. To remove it from the mechanics ended up removing one of the very big, very fun reasons to play WvW: lootbags. Lootbags are only rarely high quality, but they are very useful "low quality" stuff like crafting mats and silk and (god forbid) mithril ... way too much mithril ... unless you want weapons via Grandmaster Weaponsmith Marks, or third-generation legendary weapons.

    2) In principle the Magic Find boost should have counter-balanced the point above, but I found it was insufficient. I have been running around for the duration with minimum 400% MF and have not seen one single exotic drop, and no ascended drops (outside the ubiquitous Bloodstone Dust/Dragonite Ore/Empyreal Fragments). And so the counterbalance to the reduction in loot quantity was not so very effective. Of course, there is always someone who gets ascended loot and who can "prove" me wrong, except that it will never be proof. Only perception. Just like my perception.

    3) The no-downstate mechanic favours the experienced and active PvP sub-population of WvW. Those with Gold+ PvP rank (or perhaps Platinum+). Those capable of 1v2 or 1v3 play. WvW has always been the super-casual game mode that anyone and everyone can play, with their un-optimized builds/gear/experience (ask Mighty Teapot about how many times he sees people running around in greens, or non-lvl-80). people like me, who avoid the PvP game mode because we are too slow or too bad or too casual or too disinclined to optimize and are the ones who do not enjoy the lack of down-state. Whether this makes a majority or minority is unknown to me. Maybe people want to purify the WvW population of the casuals. But I posit that this would be a dangerous move; the game mode needs more people, not less.

    And so I have found myself doing non-WvW stuff for a chunk of this week. I will jump right back in after the weekly reset, of course, but wanted to give my respectful 2 cents while I wait out the end of the event.

    In the end, I am of the feeling that the event was rather divisive, with strong feelings for and strong against. Such a division would not be a healthy long-term result for the WvW game mode, and is workable only for short-term tests.

    1. Isn't a concern. Welcome to what roamers have always had to deal with.
    2. This is anecdotal and should not play into anyone's judgement but yours.
    3. Yeah, it's nice to not have low skilled players cheese each other up all the time. It's nice to be able to put them in their places. If you're bad you die. That's all.
  • @Adzekul.3104 said:
    3) The no-downstate mechanic favours the experienced and active PvP sub-population of WvW. Those with Gold+ PvP rank (or perhaps Platinum+). Those capable of 1v2 or 1v3 play. WvW has always been the super-casual game mode that anyone and everyone can play, with their un-optimized builds/gear/experience (ask Mighty Teapot about how many times he sees people running around in greens, or non-lvl-80). people like me, who avoid the PvP game mode because we are too slow or too bad or too casual or too disinclined to optimize and are the ones who do not enjoy the lack of down-state. Whether this makes a majority or minority is unknown to me. Maybe people want to purify the WvW population of the casuals. But I posit that this would be a dangerous move; the game mode needs more people, not less.

    And so I have found myself doing non-WvW stuff for a chunk of this week. I will jump right back in after the weekly reset, of course, but wanted to give my respectful 2 cents while I wait out the end of the event.

    In the end, I am of the feeling that the event was rather divisive, with strong feelings for and strong against. Such a division would not be a healthy long-term result for the WvW game mode, and is workable only for short-term tests.

    Very well said. The favoring of the elite guilds and elite players has always been an ANet tradition. Simply put there's more money to be made catering to the mega guilds and it's hardcore players. The casual guilds and it's players are despised by ANet. With this simple mechanic they can eliminate half the player base and focus their efforts on the elitist ranks. Go for it ANet! There are other games that care about their casual player base. Let the elites ruin a once great game just like they did to Warhammer Online. So please ignore us casual gamers. After all we don't amount to "much".

  • Neural.1824Neural.1824 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    b.) If you rely on numbers / being rezzed to win

    This is at the core of a large portion of the complaints against no-downed state. Some good points have been made, but a number of others have clearly been grasping at straws because suddenly there is a call for their crutch to be taken away.

    Soul-binding needs to be allowed to die gracefully. It has expired. It is long past it's time to become a footnote in the history of gaming.

  • @Neural.1824 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    b.) If you rely on numbers / being rezzed to win

    This is at the core of a large portion of the complaints against no-downed state. Some good points have been made, but a number of others have clearly been grasping at straws because suddenly there is a call for their crutch to be taken away.

    Funny, i thought elitist players don't need a crutch. Just like they don't need mega guilds. Sadly the majority of players aren't 24/7. Say good bye elitists.

  • Jarni.7402Jarni.7402 Member
    edited June 14, 2018

    @Elizabeth Reed.9173 said:
    Very well said. The favoring of the elite guilds and elite players has always been an ANet tradition.

    Not sure if trolling or clueless.

  • I've been enjoying the no downstate week, it's made the fights actually take less time in big zerg settings, and you don't have to wait around for people to try to stomp you (or dps you down) when in downstate. Also, some downstates favor specific classes, like rangers and necros (and maybe warrior if their close to killing someone). the rest you might as well be full down anyway.

  • Lord Trejgon.2809Lord Trejgon.2809 Member ✭✭✭

    ironically on the matter of loot/loot quality my experience during this week is exacly oposite to OP - I got more, in shorter game time and I have even got my first ascended armor box ever in wvw this week as well (was dropping only rings untill now)

    and I didn't even play as much as I would like to because of such silly things like finals coming into the way taking time I could be smacking people >.>

    (on the no-downstate my opinion is still unchanged - it's good for ocasional event like this to shake up things a bit but not feasible for long term introduction without rebalancing all of everything)

  • Vavume.8065Vavume.8065 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 14, 2018

    After having recently played The Division, I experienced a slightly different way to finish downed players. In the Division players get downed just like here in GW2, the difference being though that the "stomp" move used in the division while a player is down is instant, you literally 1 hit them with the butt of your gun and they die, it's very quick.
    This got me thinking that our stomp should be faster, like 2x or 3x times faster than it is now, to me that would be more interesting, we could keep the downstate mechanic but not punish people for trying to actually stomp, because in a lot of cases stomp is a death sentence for the player trying to stomp.

  • Tinnel.4369Tinnel.4369 Member ✭✭✭

    How do you resolve your loot statistics from running around for the duration with the statement you've spent a large chunk of time don't something else?

  • atheria.2837atheria.2837 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I don’t see how #3 is a bad thing. Those that are skillful should have an advantage as it’s a competitive game mode. Handicapping them, because some others don’t want to make the effort to get better, is bad.

    It's not competitive at all.

    Some have access to many more blocks, reflects and invulnerables than others.

    That's not 'fair' in any way without a down state in play.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2018

    @atheria.2837 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I don’t see how #3 is a bad thing. Those that are skillful should have an advantage as it’s a competitive game mode. Handicapping them, because some others don’t want to make the effort to get better, is bad.

    It's not competitive at all.

    Some have access to many more blocks, reflects and invulnerables than others.

    That's not 'fair' in any way without a down state in play.

    It’s a team game mode; not dueling.

    What you described would be present with or without down state.

  • Substance E.4852Substance E.4852 Member ✭✭✭

    @atheria.2837 said:

    That's not 'fair' in any way without a down state in play.

    Implying WvW has ever been remotely "fair".

  • atheria.2837atheria.2837 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @atheria.2837 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I don’t see how #3 is a bad thing. Those that are skillful should have an advantage as it’s a competitive game mode. Handicapping them, because some others don’t want to make the effort to get better, is bad.

    It's not competitive at all.

    Some have access to many more blocks, reflects and invulnerables than others.

    That's not 'fair' in any way without a down state in play.

    It’s a team game mode; not dueling.

    What you described would be present with or without down state.

    No, it's not.

    Delusions of 'togetherness' in WvW is dangerous.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @atheria.2837 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @atheria.2837 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I don’t see how #3 is a bad thing. Those that are skillful should have an advantage as it’s a competitive game mode. Handicapping them, because some others don’t want to make the effort to get better, is bad.

    It's not competitive at all.

    Some have access to many more blocks, reflects and invulnerables than others.

    That's not 'fair' in any way without a down state in play.

    It’s a team game mode; not dueling.

    What you described would be present with or without down state.

    No, it's not.

    Delusions of 'togetherness' in WvW is dangerous.

    Explain exactly why it’s not a team game mode then.

  • Mandar.9813Mandar.9813 Member
    edited June 15, 2018

    @atheria.2837 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I don’t see how #3 is a bad thing. Those that are skillful should have an advantage as it’s a competitive game mode. Handicapping them, because some others don’t want to make the effort to get better, is bad.

    It's not competitive at all.

    Some have access to many more blocks, reflects and invulnerables than others.

    That's not 'fair' in any way without a down state in play.

    There is always a trade off for utilizing a class or build that has high damage mitigation. Those individuals won't do the bulk of the damage but if they bring along a glass canon friend to do the damage, it becomes their job to protect and mitigate damage for their glass buddies. It's definitely competitive, but not intended to be so on an individual level. That's what PvP is for, where 1 on 1 dueling can be incredibly important. One on one dueling has no impact whatsoever on the results of a WvW match, but when you pit one group against another group where players are supporting the group effort in their own ways, it becomes a competition of which team is better. Clearly, this isn't always the case when we talk about servers that are simply outnumbered in certain time slots and other known issues commonly discussed, and none of this is to say that the game mode is perfect as it and doesn't need improvement. However, I couldn't disagree more that it's not competitive at all. It's just not competitive the way you would like it to be, maybe?

  • atheria.2837atheria.2837 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @atheria.2837 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @atheria.2837 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I don’t see how #3 is a bad thing. Those that are skillful should have an advantage as it’s a competitive game mode. Handicapping them, because some others don’t want to make the effort to get better, is bad.

    It's not competitive at all.

    Some have access to many more blocks, reflects and invulnerables than others.

    That's not 'fair' in any way without a down state in play.

    It’s a team game mode; not dueling.

    What you described would be present with or without down state.

    No, it's not.

    Delusions of 'togetherness' in WvW is dangerous.

    Explain exactly why it’s not a team game mode then.

    I didn't say that it wasn't a team game mode.

    My objection comes with the fact that one shot builds, whether legitimate or not (and we all know there are hacks being used in WvW), exist and are
    not 'balance' of any kind whatsoever.

    Anet stated unequivocally that WvW is about a 'fair fight'.

    How is any one shot build 'fair' to anyone except those taking advantage of a 'secret' or a 'hack'?

    Most of these people are not with others, they are hunting single and up to four people at a time to kill them.

    How is that 'team'?

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2018

    @Elizabeth Reed.9173 said:

    @Adzekul.3104 said:
    3) The no-downstate mechanic favours the experienced and active PvP sub-population of WvW. Those with Gold+ PvP rank (or perhaps Platinum+). Those capable of 1v2 or 1v3 play. WvW has always been the super-casual game mode that anyone and everyone can play, with their un-optimized builds/gear/experience (ask Mighty Teapot about how many times he sees people running around in greens, or non-lvl-80). people like me, who avoid the PvP game mode because we are too slow or too bad or too casual or too disinclined to optimize and are the ones who do not enjoy the lack of down-state. Whether this makes a majority or minority is unknown to me. Maybe people want to purify the WvW population of the casuals. But I posit that this would be a dangerous move; the game mode needs more people, not less.

    And so I have found myself doing non-WvW stuff for a chunk of this week. I will jump right back in after the weekly reset, of course, but wanted to give my respectful 2 cents while I wait out the end of the event.

    In the end, I am of the feeling that the event was rather divisive, with strong feelings for and strong against. Such a division would not be a healthy long-term result for the WvW game mode, and is workable only for short-term tests.

    Very well said. The favoring of the elite guilds and elite players has always been an ANet tradition. Simply put there's more money to be made catering to the mega guilds and it's hardcore players. The casual guilds and it's players are despised by ANet. With this simple mechanic they can eliminate half the player base and focus their efforts on the elitist ranks. Go for it ANet! There are other games that care about their casual player base. Let the elites ruin a once great game just like they did to Warhammer Online. So please ignore us casual gamers. After all we don't amount to "much".

    are you kidding me ? anet has always favored casuals not "elitists"...what are you even talking about? gw2 was MEANT to be a casual environment, they dont even have an esports scene anymore because they are too casual 😂

    also downstate heavily favors larger groups,how do some ppl get the idea that smaller groups benefit more from downstate than the larger group they fight against? tte bigger numbers can way easier rezz their downs while still dishing out dmg, the smaller group has to choose between rezzing or doing dmg to keep tje big blob to run them over with an endless push, even is some go down they just keep going and the downs will get rezzed by ppl running in the back

  • Shazmataz.1423Shazmataz.1423 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2018

    Personally, I got more loot bags than usual....but it may depend on the class that you normally play. Some people did complain that their class was disadvantaged by no downstate but it was a good week to try something new.

    However, it is time that Anet rewarded the support players who keep the dps-ers alive to get bags. There needs to be rewards for a certain amount of healing, protection and so on that the non dps classes/builds provide for the survival of their group.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2018

    @atheria.2837 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @atheria.2837 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @atheria.2837 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I don’t see how #3 is a bad thing. Those that are skillful should have an advantage as it’s a competitive game mode. Handicapping them, because some others don’t want to make the effort to get better, is bad.

    It's not competitive at all.

    Some have access to many more blocks, reflects and invulnerables than others.

    That's not 'fair' in any way without a down state in play.

    It’s a team game mode; not dueling.

    What you described would be present with or without down state.

    No, it's not.

    Delusions of 'togetherness' in WvW is dangerous.

    Explain exactly why it’s not a team game mode then.

    I didn't say that it wasn't a team game mode.

    My objection comes with the fact that one shot builds, whether legitimate or not (and we all know there are hacks being used in WvW), exist and are
    not 'balance' of any kind whatsoever.

    Anet stated unequivocally that WvW is about a 'fair fight'.

    How is any one shot build 'fair' to anyone except those taking advantage of a 'secret' or a 'hack'?

    Most of these people are not with others, they are hunting single and up to four people at a time to kill them.

    How is that 'team'?

    Actually, you did... twice.

    In my post I stated that it was a team game mode and then you responded that “No, it’s not.” And just now you’re still questioning it being that.

    You play with others where everyone covers each other’s weaknesses. Builds that have combos that can quickly kill another player (no such thing as a one shot build) are an issue but that has zero bearing as to whether WvW is a team game mode or not.

    Just because players can do their own thing does not make it any less of a team game mode. There are PvE group events where I can do my own thing and still get credit. Does that make those events any less of a group event? No.

  • Chuck.2864Chuck.2864 Member ✭✭

    "One shot" builds as you call them are balanced and can be countered quite easily when you know what you're doing.

    You won't counter them by refusing to learn how to play this game and being purely a casual zergling who doesn't want a challenge and runs away from any fight where he isn't backed up by a big group. And being that casual player is ok and you are within your rights to not care about getting good. But don't complain when players who are good kill you easily inva competitive gamemode.

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 16, 2018

    @Chuck.2864 said:
    But don't complain when players who are good kill you easily inva competitive gamemode.

    Good players and competitive gamemode in relation to GW2 WvW... /facepalm

  • Chuck.2864Chuck.2864 Member ✭✭
    edited June 16, 2018

    @zinkz.7045 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:
    But don't complain when players who are good kill you easily inva competitive gamemode.

    Good players and competitive gamemode in relation to GW2 WvW... /facepalm

    Yes, there are solo roamers who are good at the game. Many of them have a PvP background. You disagree?

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @atheria.2837 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I don’t see how #3 is a bad thing. Those that are skillful should have an advantage as it’s a competitive game mode. Handicapping them, because some others don’t want to make the effort to get better, is bad.

    It's not competitive at all.

    Some have access to many more blocks, reflects and invulnerables than others.

    That's not 'fair' in any way without a down state in play.

    It’s a team game mode; not dueling.

    What you described would be present with or without down state.

    WvW is not a "team" game mode, PvP is because you have set teams with a set amount of people that play matches with a fixed timer. WvW is a factions type of gameplay where you can play whichever way you want whether its solo or with a team.

    BG
    Get rid of Stealth and downstate in WvW.

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