Why Condi thief is bad for the game

Thumbs up, really informative and on point.

its not just condi thief , it's condi mirage as well....it's just really over tuned for no reason at all. we're back to condi mirage being complete busted after the overall mesmer nerf/rework that was done. It kills the point of the rework...........

This quote from you sums it up "They never fix the root issue." They just like to tweak CDs and damage of things rather than fix the core of the problem.

@zoopop.5630 said:its not just condi thief , it's condi mirage as well....it's just really over tuned for no reason at all. we're back to condi mirage being complete busted after the overall mesmer nerf/rework that was done. It kills the point of the rework...........

Are you implying anything about that rework was done with PvP in mind?

"Just dodge the Steal, l2p!" - clueless people comments incoming.

Yeah, I agree on just about everything in your video.

@witcher.3197 said:

@"zoopop.5630" said:its not just condi thief , it's condi mirage as well....it's just really over tuned for no reason at all. we're back to condi mirage being complete busted after the overall mesmer nerf/rework that was done. It kills the point of the rework...........

I'm implying that the "rework for confusion" was done with PvP In mind.... so yes, their was no other real reason to change it. It was fine for Pve no one complained about it during raids.

Another reason to do complete skill splitting for game modes. PVP should be first priority, as something over-tuned in this competitive game mode is incredibly detrimental. In pve. . like. .what, you having trouble killing an AI boss or something because your class isn't the strongest? lol I honestly can't understand why people find killing NPCS fun but w/e

They forgot about it (mesmer and thief brain dead condi builds) because other builds were stronger. Then they nerf those builds and the other bad builds become popular again. Its really stupid on A-nets part.

Condi thf is a great noob friendly build for new thfa for pvp, but a high skilled dps thf will I packed game allot more as well as take the Condi thf out of the game.

@Gamble.4580 said:Condi thf is a great noob friendly build for new thfa for pvp, but a high skilled dps thf will I packed game allot more as well as take the Condi thf out of the game.

a normal condi thief can ruin the hole game of a good power thief

@OP You're entirely right but looking at the last few patch notes, what the hell do you want Thief players to play?

@Arlowslol.1974 said:

@Gamble.4580 said:Condi thf is a great noob friendly build for new thfa for pvp, but a high skilled dps thf will I packed game allot more as well as take the Condi thf out of the game.

Not seen that ever in any plat and above games, d/d condi can be annoying but I won't waste my time I will leave them on their 1v1 decap far +1 mid kill a loan walker +1 far kill a boss make a cup of tea then when that thf finally kills the guy I will jump him and one burst him dead.

@Gamble.4580 said:

@Arlowslol.1974 said:

@Gamble.4580 said:Condi thf is a great noob friendly build for new thfa for pvp, but a high skilled dps thf will I packed game allot more as well as take the Condi thf out of the game.

d/d?

make my laugh

There are multiple condi thief builds. D/D, P/D and S/D. Each play differently but rely on a mix of shared mechanics to apply conditions. Each also have relative advantages and disadvantages.

“Nerf condi thief” is too general of a statement. Ok, which one? Why? What is the specific change you are suggesting? Does this change impact other builds? Is the nerf tailored to address the issue or is the suggestion so broad it effectively removes the build from the game?

I think, given that the general balance goal is more viable builds, if you want to solve an issue with a particular build you should avoid making suggestions that add up to “delete this build.” It just isn’t productive if you want to convince anyone, let alone a dev, that a change is worth making.

@Griever.8150 said:You have a point but its hard to take seriously has your dream scenario is for Thieves to have absolutely no viable build at all. P.S I don't play Condi anything, its not my type of playstyle but look at the last few patch notes and you might figure out why everybody else switched to it.

Because that's totally what the OP's video was about.

Anyway, excellent video OP.

I remember in Season 8 when Condi DD showed up for the first time and thinking it was one of the worst builds in the game. And now the dumb thing is back with a vengeance.

@saerni.2584 said:There are multiple condi thief builds. D/D, P/D and S/D. Each play differently but rely on a mix of shared mechanics to apply conditions. Each also have relative advantages and disadvantages.

“Nerf condi thief” is too general of a statement. Ok, which one? Why? What is the specific change you are suggesting? Does this change impact other builds? Is the nerf tailored to address the issue or is the suggestion so broad it effectively removes the build from the game?

I never said nerf, what I said is that condi thief needs to have it's mechanics revised so that it's damage is tied to specific skill combos rather than coming from a mass of trait procs that can be triggered by practically anything. Moreover I would like to see thief's torment application replaced with either poison or bleeding. Also Sigil of Fallibility should not exist.

@Crinn.7864 said:

@saerni.2584 said:There are multiple condi thief builds. D/D, P/D and S/D. Each play differently but rely on a mix of shared mechanics to apply conditions. Each also have relative advantages and disadvantages.

“Nerf condi thief” is too general of a statement. Ok, which one? Why? What is the specific change you are suggesting? Does this change impact other builds? Is the nerf tailored to address the issue or is the suggestion so broad it effectively removes the build from the game?

A mass of trait procs?

Several traits give steal/mark condi application. The other is Lotus dodge on Daredevil and to a lesser extent the poison application through DA’s Panic Strike and Potent Poison.

So it’s not “practically anything.” It’s steal, the thief primary mechanic, and any skill that applies immobilize which are Shortbow Stealth Attack, Body Shot, S/D 2. Two stacks of poison at 50% hp isn’t really all that impactful.

So as far as skill combos I’m not sure what you are demanding be changed about specific traits. If you want to reduce condi on steal, for example, you’d need to buff the condi on weapons themselves. Otherwise it would indeed be a nerf.

Also, I doubt you are going to reduce thief’s torment application. Anet clearly wants P/D to be torment based with two different skills that use that condition. It’s all on the weapon so unless you are narrowly talking about needing Lotus dodge I’m not sure what you want here.

@saerni.2584 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@saerni.2584 said:There are multiple condi thief builds. D/D, P/D and S/D. Each play differently but rely on a mix of shared mechanics to apply conditions. Each also have relative advantages and disadvantages.

“Nerf condi thief” is too general of a statement. Ok, which one? Why? What is the specific change you are suggesting? Does this change impact other builds? Is the nerf tailored to address the issue or is the suggestion so broad it effectively removes the build from the game?

You didn't actually watch any of the video did you? It's pretty clearly explained and demonstrated what I have a issue with. And it has nothing to do with Steal.

Also trying to defend the torment access because of P/D which isn't a real build and is never used in any gamemode ever is just silly.

I’m just responding to your statement above. I don’t have headphones atm so I didn’t watch the video. But if you would mind summarizing briefly I’ll respond accordingly assuming there is more detail in the actual video about your claimed issues.

As to your “that doesn’t apply because it’s not a common build” argument, the changes to P/D are recent. Naturally, fewer people run torment P/D because the torment application on Dancing Dagger is new and the 4 stacks on Shadow Strike just got normalized. But, regardless, just because you think a build is bad doesn’t make the balance design not torment focused. All I’m saying is Anet is unlikely to remove torment when they are clearly intentionally giving thief more torment rather than less.

All right, let's assume a situation. You are taking a point when suddenly a condition thief appears and this thief leaves you immobilized and exploding with various conditions. So they move away from that point, but it's still there near you when they suddenly repeat the same cycle and again immobilize and explode you with conditions. A thief should not force you to get out of a point like this unless he is very good. Some people need to understand some questions:

1- This build is something so SICK that it does not require any work for you to blow up the conditions.2- Most players who play with thieves are switching to this build, from there you realize something is wrong.3- The stunbreak issue does not say much, since you will hardly be able to stun it while it may be immobilizing you, leaving and returning, until you die.

All mesmer builds get gank ez by this build.

@RayssaMoreira.3728 said:All right, let's assume a situation. You are taking a point when suddenly a condition thief appears and this thief leaves you immobilized and exploding with various conditions. So they move away from that point, but it's still there near you when they suddenly repeat the same cycle and again immobilize and explode you with conditions. A thief should not force you to get out of a point like this unless he is very good. Some people need to understand some questions:

1- This build is something so SICK that it does not require any work for you to blow up the conditions.2- Most players who play with thieves are switching to this build, from there you realize something is wrong.3- The stunbreak issue does not say much, since you will hardly be able to stun it while it may be immobilizing you, leaving and returning, until you die.

What profession / build are you playing?

Moving conditions to weapon skills for thief is not as easy as you think. Thief doesn't just blow 4 CDs then swap weapons and repeat.

The conclusions are not supported by the facts. It claimed it because TRAITS are adding the Conditions rather then the weapon skills and suggested this not the same as other classes. There a number of TRAITS across all professions that add to Condition damage. As example Warrior can add conditions everytime they get a stun. They can increase conditions added with critical strikes.

s/s warrior adds conditions on evry single one of the attacks in the AA chain. They can then add conditions with savage leap #2 impale #4 and riposte #5. By taking arms they then add more bleeds on crit while garnering longer durations (just like potent poison) and higher condition power. How is that different than what the thief can do? Where something like Venoms goes on a 30 second cooldown, Bleed on Crit has no such thing nor does confusion on stun. Where the base duration of the poison off the IMMOB for thief 4 seconds and 2 seconds for dagger trainingy , bloodlust has a 5 second base bleed and the AA bleeds last 8 seconds

This is not a Burst issue or too many traits allowing conditions. In comparative terms Warrior can load up more condition stacks based on weapon skills and traits. The thief advantage is the same one they have across the board due to the nature of the class and that is it hard to hit and pin down.